10-31-14 09:02 PM
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  1. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    How long will it be before apple pay is hacked
    What would said hack yield?
    09-18-14 07:14 AM
  2. shorski's Avatar
    I swear these threads are just to bash iOS... it's like watching children arguing over sweets...

    Posted via CB10
    What do you expect. You open a thread to praise iOS in a BB10 zone, what response were you hoping to get?
    The forums are already heated up and starting threads like this only fuels the heat more. It's a good thing the title was renamed to emphasise "opinion".

    Posted via My Cute BlackBerry z30
    lift likes this.
    09-18-14 08:02 AM
  3. Jimberry Storm's Avatar
    I thought when BB started putting NFC in phones pay by phone was the next logical step, and they did implement it several months later with CIBC. They also implemented BBM pay some places, but it is so fragmented. If you have an iphone you have apple pay, period. If you have a BB you can use NFC pay, or BBM, in 10-25% of the world. I have been scratching my head since NFC came out why they haven't made it work to their advantage. It was one of the thing they showcased when showing off the new NFC features with the Bold 9350 or whatever it was four years ago. I love BB, but they certainly dropped the ball on this one. Will it be the straw, I don't think so, but it sure suck A**.
    09-18-14 08:10 AM
  4. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Do you read anything?

    Sims had nothing to do with purchase at Home Depot and pins aren't used with tap to pay (Canadian Home Depots). Your credit card data is recorded.
    It is clear that you don't read even when I have given you a link. The Home Depot hack was caused by using XP for the POS.
    09-18-14 08:48 AM
  5. undone's Avatar
    The fee that Apple is extorting is quite high from what I understand. I think that will only hurt Apple in the long term. Their advantage is numbers (users), but even that is more regional then not.

    Credit card companies will strike back first (and easily). The US unfortunately is still in the strip and rip credit card age. (Correct me if I am wrong) The rest of the world is using smart chip credit cards, more secure, 'harder' to fraud.

    In the end Apple will be hamstrung my their own size and lack of ability to adapt to the market as it moves quickly. Its the unfortunate nature of large behemoth companies.
    09-18-14 08:59 AM
  6. undone's Avatar
    It is clear that you don't read even when I have given you a link. The Home Depot hack was caused by using XP for the POS.
    Same hack that was do to Target and other retailers in the US if I am not mistaken.
    09-18-14 09:00 AM
  7. kfh227's Avatar
    NFC is locked to only Apple Pay. The API is not opened up to app developers. So mastercard and other CC companies can not make apps for Apple phones.

    So, people will be forced to use apple pay. Once you join though, most will not ever get off it. It's a nice way of forcing people to use Apple Pay. And then people will not leave it because of the fear over "leaving the ecosystem". It's brilliant for the company to do and asinine for a consumer to use knowing this. I am personally offended. Apple really is the new Evil Empire ..... the term often used for Microsoft 10 years ago.
    09-18-14 09:08 AM
  8. yessuz's Avatar
    But BBRY doesn't make one cent from NFC payments. You need to read more about the Apple deal with banks. It will be huge revenue for Apple once it gets rolling.
    well, BBRY should get some % from each payment, as QNX is a backbone of all POS operations
    09-18-14 09:12 AM
  9. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    You are joking right? NFC payments have been done with Blackberry and Android for a while now in Canada.Apple Pay is late to the game.
    It's not the tech as much as the network to use it.

    I've probably only used NFC on the BlackBerry a few times in my life ... a few times to add a BBM contact and a few times to buy coffee with an app.

    Gotta give props to Apple. Even though I don't think they deserve the endless fanboy "OMG they'll bring world peace with this gloriousness" gushing they get, they do a really, really, really, really good job making tech usable by the masses.
    09-18-14 09:21 AM
  10. yessuz's Avatar

    Credit card companies will strike back first (and easily). The US unfortunately is still in the strip and rip credit card age. (Correct me if I am wrong) The rest of the world is using smart chip credit cards, more secure, 'harder' to fraud.
    OMG. haven't swiped my card for... amm.. 4 years now. Most probably.
    my cards (debit/credit) had chips and pins since 2004...
    undone likes this.
    09-18-14 09:24 AM
  11. Eumaeus's Avatar
    well, BBRY should get some % from each payment, as QNX is a backbone of all POS operations
    BBRY is free to try to negotiate whatever deals they can. But in the absence of contracts, there is no "should".

    I know it is painful to see a massive groundswell of support from major banks for Apple Pay, when once upon a time Research in Motion would have been the most likely major player to initiate (and dominate) such a move.

    But there we are. Old RIMM's management was patting themselves on the back over their data-compression, keyboards, and battery life, while other companies were deciding to value other aspects of the user experience.

    I have gotten emails and paper mail from Bank of America, Barkley, and Citibank excitedly promoting Apple Pay. Anyone who doesn't think this is going to be a very, very big deal is deluded.

    We can all meet here in 18 months, and I will happily accept jeering mockery, taunting, and name-calling if events do not turn out that way. And I'll deserve it! Heck, I'm very often wrong on large matters and small, about the near term and the distant future, but I really don't think I am this time.
    09-18-14 09:38 AM
  12. early2bed's Avatar
    LOL. So we have two popular threads about Apple Pay here:

    1. Apple Pay: I can't stop laughing
    2. Apple Pay will hurt BBRY [opinion]

    One is apparently opinion and the other is not?
    sentimentGX4 and JeepBB like this.
    09-18-14 10:04 AM
  13. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    But BBRY doesn't make one cent from NFC payments. You need to read more about the Apple deal with banks. It will be huge revenue for Apple once it gets rolling.
    Actually if you bothered reading above, Enstream is provisioning the SIM with BlackBerry's secure technology. So they do make money in the process; not on every transaction but they're provisioning not just BlackBerrys but also any NFC capable handset.

    BlackBerry in Deal with EnStream

    So the data is in fact secure and I hope people also know that the NFC credit card number is different than your actual credit card number and transactions are limited. For example, you can't go out and buy a big screen TV and use NFC to pay.
    09-18-14 10:07 AM
  14. early2bed's Avatar
    well, BBRY should get some % from each payment, as QNX is a backbone of all POS operations
    I love it! Apple Pay runs on top of QNX! Brilliant! I have no idea whether this is true or not but at Crackberry it doesn't really matter.
    09-18-14 10:13 AM
  15. blackmoe's Avatar
    well, BBRY should get some % from each payment, as QNX is a backbone of all POS operations
    BBRY has no control over payments as they gave that to the carriers who worked with the banks.

    Here is a link that shows how fractured it is in Canada.

    Here's the list of Canadian financial institutions, carriers and manufacturers working together on NFC mobile payments | MobileSyrup.com
    09-18-14 10:26 AM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    So the data is in fact secure and I hope people also know that the NFC credit card number is different than your actual credit card number and transactions are limited. For example, you can't go out and buy a big screen TV and use NFC to pay.
    Security isn't a binary thing, though. The question is who creates the tokens, where are they stored, how are they resolved back to your actual account, and what specific encryption schemes are used throughout that process. Also how is all of this integrated into rewards, statements, notifications, and so on.

    It's not as simple as saying it's "secure" so it much be about the same, or good enough.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-18-14 10:40 AM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    We will see how this all plays out in the US with Apple Pay. Currently this is the only area where Apple Pay will function. Most of this is because the US is actually so far behind the rest of the world in secure payment card systems. The world is EMV chip and pin. The US goes EMV with chip and signature in Oct 2015. Still no chip and pin. But what is interesting is when the merchant is dinged for fraud when the customer does not sign or uses a pin. Since payment via wireless (NFC) is limited in most cases to payments under 50 to 100 dollars. So don't think that you won't still be carrying around your credit cards. And when the merchant is liable for fraud, let us see what happens to Apple Pay then. I doubt given what is in the rest of the world, that Apple Pay will be a success. To me this is a US system only.
    In Canada, I don't see the reason why the banks would care to even negotiate with Apple since they have apps that don't require a middleman like Apple, Google or Blackberry. They don't have to give apple a piece of the pie. I suspect the same thing in the rest of the world. The US banking system is a mess and needs to get fixed. Apple is a viable option in the US because the US banking system can't get together on anything. In Canada we have interact which is a non profit system to do debit card purchases directly to your bank account and the fees to merchants are minimum. Compare 10 cents per transactions vs 2.5%. The banks in Canada got together and created this, the US banks (too many) can't do this so the merchants are screwed as VISA needs to step in and do the transactions so Apple is just filling a void that the banks created. This is in the US only, the rest of the world has EMV and widely accepted standards and regulations.
    Apple Pay is a US targeted system with little benefit outside of the US.
    undone likes this.
    09-18-14 11:15 AM
  18. early2bed's Avatar
    Apple Pay is a US targeted system with little benefit outside of the US.
    This works fine as long as people from the US don't go to Canada and people from Canada don't come to the US. Ever see any iPhone-toting US Americans up there? Do they ever buy anything?
    09-18-14 11:42 AM
  19. blackmoe's Avatar
    This works fine as long as people from the US don't go to Canada and people from Canada don't come to the US. Ever see any iPhone-toting US Americans up there? Do they ever buy anything?
    Well visitors from the south will have to wait a while until its available in Canada, but I can see Canadian iPhone users loving Apple Pay when they go south. Interesting statistic I heard on the news last night is that over 30% of all foreign investment real estate sales in Florida last year were to Canadians who mostly paid cash. They are affluent and will want to shop. Not sure if the app will allow them to associate their Canadian credit cards but most snowbirds have a US funded credit card anyway.
    09-18-14 11:52 AM
  20. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    This works fine as long as people from the US don't go to Canada and people from Canada don't come to the US. Ever see any iPhone-toting US Americans up there? Do they ever buy anything?
    Already happens in Canada and the EU. American's card can and are being refused by merchants who don't want to take the risk and be liable for fraud since the US card doesn't support EMV chip and pin.
    09-18-14 12:02 PM
  21. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Well visitors from the south will have to wait a while until its available in Canada, but I can see Canadian iPhone users loving Apple Pay when they go south. Interesting statistic I heard on the news last night is that over 30% of all foreign investment real estate sales in Florida last year were to Canadians who mostly paid cash. They are affluent and will want to shop. Not sure if the app will allow them to associate their Canadian credit cards but most snowbirds have a US funded credit card anyway.
    It may never be available in Canada and the EU due to the way EMV is implemented. And why would Canadian banks who have their own apps for on other platforms give any of the cut to Apple? They don't need to.
    sk8er_tor likes this.
    09-18-14 12:07 PM
  22. robert_in_la's Avatar
    You are joking right? NFC payments have been done with Blackberry and Android for a while now in Canada.Apple Pay is late to the game.
    Sorry but comparing Canada with a total population that is less than the State of California is a Joke. Love Canada comparing the two is ridiculous.
    Wwhite1036 and sentimentGX4 like this.
    09-18-14 12:39 PM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    It may never be available in Canada and the EU due to the way EMV is implemented. And why would Canadian banks who have their own apps for on other platforms give any of the cut to Apple? They don't need to.
    I'm not sure what you are saying. Apple Pay will be available in other countries and is not impeded in any way by "the way EMV is implemented". What do you mean by that?

    The Canadian banks would want to support their iPhone users and encourage their iPhone users to use this feature for all the same reasons that we American banks are.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-18-14 12:40 PM
  24. TBone4eva's Avatar
    If Apply Pay isn't cross platform then it won't hurt BlackBerry. If BlackBerry pursues a strategy to be the cross platform alternative, it could help them, but they have to have a strong and compelling product. And yeah, banks may be onboard now with Apple Pay, but if it takes off and the banks find themselves paying all these fees to Apple then they will start to have the same regret that carriers have with the iPhone.
    09-18-14 12:42 PM
  25. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    Security isn't a binary thing, though. The question is who creates the tokens, where are they stored, how are they resolved back to your actual account, and what specific encryption schemes are used throughout that process. Also how is all of this integrated into rewards, statements, notifications, and so on.

    It's not as simple as saying it's "secure" so it much be about the same, or good enough.
    Although what you say is correct, BlackBerry is the most trusted name in mobile security and they're the ones helping with the provisioning in Canada.

    Inside BlackBerry has more information on today's BBM Money announcement. The one line that caught my eye was: "As is the case now, it will be available to BBM users regardless of who they bank with, or if they have a bank account."
    BBM Money Adds Two New Payment Capabilities
    09-18-14 12:42 PM
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