04-14-15 12:59 AM
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  1. lnichols's Avatar
    So, what they HAVE to do is BE DIFFERENT and PKB devices do that BETTER than YAFSD (yet another full slab device). And running Android puts them in the YAFSAD (yet another full slab Android device) category, so we're back to "a full slab BB device running Android or BB10 is not going to be BlackBerry's salvation." If BlackBerry's reputation is that of being tied to PKB devices, then they should EMBRACE IT and do it VERY WELL, as the reviews of the Classic and the Passport show: EXCELLENT devices where the only criticism is usually that they aren't Android or iOS devices, and they don't have rectangular screens. Case in point: the buzz from MWC goes like this...
    blah blah blah Barcelona blah blah blah Galaxy S6 and Galaxy S6 Edge... blah blah blah lg (lowercase) blah blah BlackBerry introduces a slider blah blah Galaxy S6 some more blah blah the htc one m9 looks lacklustre blah blah. blah.

    I think that sentence wouldn't have included "BlackBerry launches full slab successor to the Z30" if that had happened. EDIT OMG there was a successor to the Z30 announced, the Leap, I totally forgot. I guess you think that if the Leap had specs that rival the Galaxy S6 someone would care? I don't think they would have... maybe more than the Leap, but not enough.



    So, you love it, and you got a great deal on it... do you love it BECAUSE it was $224? Would you love it if you paid $600? I paid $600 for mine and I LOVE it. I paid $150 for my Q5 and while it's not my daily driver it is a GREAT device highly underrated but I want the big screen so BRING ON THE SLIDER, BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!



    Well, we'll agree to disagree: at risk of offending you, you may be projecting your likes onto the world, while I am using what I can find in terms of real data to support my assertions. There are too many "if only..." hindsight suggestions about how BB's prospects could improve... emphatically expressed, but not convincingly.

    I did write this, and I sincerely want BB to act on that suggestion, but I don't think BlackBerry should "waste time on" developing (and testing!) a bleeding edge device with untested CPUs that might overheat (Samsung's criticism of recent Qualcomm processors) or screen technology that's possibly flaky (OLED on my Nexus S has BURN IN, piece of crap!) but if they take last years' flagship and use the same tried-and-tested components to make a Z50 that's equivalent to a Galaxy Note 4 (EDIT or even a Note 3) or a S5 or LG G3, that would be what I think would be a wise decision.

    ...and at the risk of being called a hypocrite, as toolbelt advocates like me have been told to "get over it" or "move on"... those of you pining for BlackBerry to release a full slab device that rivals the latest (at time of release) specs of a Samsung flagship... well... you know.
    So BlackBerry doesn't have any sales figures broken down, but you make statements that PKB devices will outsell YAFSD. Everything we have heard from devs state their evidence from app sales shows that slabs outsold PKB devices. Passport sales are what? We know of 400,000 and that is it because it sold out twice. Ever since then it seems to be going on sale quite a bit. Classic sales are what? They are making a Leap because Enterprise doesn't want a large screen slab?

    As for the Leap being a Z30 replacement, that is pretty laughable since is is a Z10 SOC, and having used both a Z10 and Z30, I can say that the Z10/Q10/Classic/Leap SOC is inferior to the one on the Z30 in every way, and is overtaxed when running BB10. They didn't need a GS6 spec'd device, but they could have put a more modern and better performing SOC in, but my guess is they are still dealing with a glut of inventory from the previous buffoon or that they don't have the staff to do the engineering changes needed for another SOC for the OS.

    Personally my only hope for an upgrade is BlackBerry expanding this partnership with Samsung and seeing a GS6 spec'd device late this or early next year, since the slider is a GS6 Edge spec'd device. The curved screen and slider are a turn off for me, and I'm sure for others who just want a YAFSD. But hey maybe they will win over more customers with these new devices then they will lose by ignoring the earliest BB10 adopters. Guess Chen's speech on loyalty being a two way street and BlackBerry needing to do more to be loyal to customers was hot air.

    And as for data, I did go over all of the financial statements from before BB10 and through now and they are they clearly had an increase in Hardware revenue when BB10 launched over just pure BBOS sales because they had a higher ASP per device. It is well known that majority of BBOS devices then were making very little as they were the low end entices in low end markets. Service Revenue was the only way they made money on those devices.
    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-20-15 04:28 PM
  2. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    The relevance of BlackBerry's failure to launch a flagship all-touch device since 2013 is that it supports defections to Apple and Android by allowing promotions like the Apple trade-in program to steal more and more customers away. "Give the people what they want" is timeless wisdom, but BlackBerry is continuing to ignore the flagship all-touch customer.

    So, here comes industry leading customer satisfaction expert Apple to the rescue. Ya know, BlackBerry customers likely have many, many months before the Slider is available, so Apple says why not come to an Apple store and give the iPhone 6 or 6+ a spin? Maybe with a new MacBook? Or Apple watch? And BlackBerry helps this to happen by leaving people dissatisfied!
    techvisor and MarsupilamiX like this.
    03-20-15 05:35 PM
  3. jmr1015's Avatar
    A true Z30-successor flagship all touch would get my attention, if spec'd and priced right. A metal trimmed frame like the Passport and Classic. Maybe a 5.0" to 5.2" 16:9 1080p screen or better, a Snapdragon 801 SoC & 2gb of RAM or better, a removable 3000mAh battery or better, a microSD card slot, NFC, wireless charging, decent cameras front and rear... Basically a Galaxy Alpha body with Galaxy S5 internal specs, slap some BlackBerry logos on it and load up BB10. For maybe $499 at most.

    I would buy one.
    03-20-15 06:42 PM
  4. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    The relevance of BlackBerry's failure to launch a flagship all-touch device since 2013 is that it supports defections to Apple and Android by allowing promotions like the Apple trade-in program to steal more and more customers away. "Give the people what they want" is timeless wisdom, but BlackBerry is continuing to ignore the flagship all-touch customer.

    So, here comes industry leading customer satisfaction expert Apple to the rescue. Ya know, BlackBerry customers likely have many, many months before the Slider is available, so Apple says why not come to an Apple store and give the iPhone 6 or 6+ a spin? Maybe with a new MacBook? Or Apple watch? And BlackBerry helps this to happen by leaving people dissatisfied!
    The Leap makes more sense than a flagship. It gets BB10 in the hands of more customers overall.
    anon(5061193) and nt300 like this.
    03-21-15 05:19 AM
  5. bakron1's Avatar
    I have an AT&T passport and a iPhone 6+ 64 because I have to have both devices to support my clients needs being self employed, that's just the way it is.

    As far as Apple getting Blackberry customers to come over, well here in the USA that's pretty much already a done deal.

    Most all of my clients have converted to Android or IOS. When I sit in meetings with my passport, people look and say, your still using a Blackberry!!!! Nobody uses those things anymore.

    I show them how great the features are and so on, but it falls on deaf ears my friends. Android and IOS are embedded into the culture here and that's not changing anytime soon.

    I am not here to point fingers or promote one brand over the other, but there is no one to blame for this but Blackberry themselves folks.

    A lack of vision, failure to listen what the consumer wanted and failure to get their products to the market in a timely manner.

    I will always support the brand and I like OS10 and have written many post both good and bad on this great forum.

    At this point in time, like it or not, I think the smart move would be for Blackberry to partner with Samsung and produce a consumer device based on Android with the OS10 features on the front end.

    That way it would support Google play services while offering the great OS10 features like the Hub, Gesturing, Peak and so on.

    I know I am going to get blasted by the faithful for this, but here in the USA being a Blackberry user means being isolated with no support. I know there are folks out there like me who feel the same way I do, I just tell it like it is, just my two cents.
    Last edited by bakron1; 03-21-15 at 08:58 AM.
    03-21-15 06:43 AM
  6. anon(5061193)'s Avatar
    People do look at a Classic and think.. "why the hell do you still have a BB?".... But when they see a Passport it is more like "What the Hell is That ?"... and it gives you the chance to talk about the benefits of the device. Most people think that it is cool and a great device, but they are not going to switch.... The iPhone/Android person is just so embedded in the OS, they would never change back to a company most people think is dead or about to be dead.. BB has to produce more mid to low end devices and get them into as many hands as possible and quit trying to develop the next iPhone .... That ship has sailed
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    03-21-15 08:53 AM
  7. nt300's Avatar
    I actually agree with the first half of your post. You did very well until you went off the rails.
    - Verizon owing Apple $14 billion was speculation. Can you provide a link that Big Red remitted payment to Apple for that amount?
    - Z10 returns were not a reaction to BlackBerry's "For Sale" sign. It was due to the restarting issue and lack of apps. The "For Sale" sign hurt the Z30's chances more than anything.
    - If BB10 is the crown jewel of BlackBerry, why hasn't their CEO sung its praises? I've never heard John Chen say he's proud of it. One would think he would do so at every opportunity he gets.
    Look at Verizon stock files. They were suppose to pay $14B. Not sure if Apple let them off the hook or not. But there's no denying, Apple forces carriers with these dubious ripped contracts.

    Sexy White Z30
    03-21-15 09:35 AM
  8. birdman_38's Avatar
    Android and IOS are embedded into the culture here and that's not changing anytime soon.
    Same thing in Canada. And numerous other parts of the world.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-21-15 09:39 AM
  9. nt300's Avatar
    The relevance of BlackBerry's failure to launch a flagship all-touch device since 2013 is that it supports defections to Apple and Android by allowing promotions like the Apple trade-in program to steal more and more customers away. "Give the people what they want" is timeless wisdom, but BlackBerry is continuing to ignore the flagship all-touch customer.

    So, here comes industry leading customer satisfaction expert Apple to the rescue. Ya know, BlackBerry customers likely have many, many months before the Slider is available, so Apple says why not come to an Apple store and give the iPhone 6 or 6+ a spin? Maybe with a new MacBook? Or Apple watch? And BlackBerry helps this to happen by leaving people dissatisfied!
    Why on God's Green Earth would anybody using BB10 go with a piece of iCrap? Like seriously, unless people haven't tried BB10 before.

    Sexy White Z30
    03-21-15 09:40 AM
  10. birdman_38's Avatar
    Why on God's Green Earth would anybody using BB10 go with a piece of iCrap? Like seriously, unless people haven't tried BB10 before.
    Ecosystem.
    JeepBB, jmr1015, MikeX74 and 3 others like this.
    03-21-15 09:45 AM
  11. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    The Leap makes more sense than a flagship. It gets BB10 in the hands of more customers overall.
    If someone is considering getting an iPhone through this trade-in deal, then the Leap will hardly be enough to keep them with BlackBerry. Even looking at Crackberry, its clear that nearly no one considers the Leap to be an upgrade to whatever BlackBerry they are carrying. IMHO, BlackBerry is crazy to ignore the risk that these upgrade-hungry customers will stray to other competitors and BlackBerry should be launching products that meet the desires of current customers.
    03-21-15 10:29 AM
  12. lnichols's Avatar
    The Leap makes more sense than a flagship. It gets BB10 in the hands of more customers overall.
    It made sense 2 years ago, but releasing an all touch device 2 years later with the same specs, bigger battery and screen as the launch device with no other options is simply stupid. Yeah it gives corporate purchasers a low cost option, which they already have with the discounted Z10 and Z30 being cheap right now, but what about the Millions of Z users you have out there now? This is simply a huge hole in their product offerings with standard upgrade windows happening now. I'm glad, and BlackBerry should be glad that I jumped to the Z30 when it was on sale because if I hadn't I would be jumping to a company that wants my business and continually improves their products.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-15 10:39 AM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    Look at Verizon stock files. They were suppose to pay $14B. Not sure if Apple let them off the hook or not. But there's no denying, Apple forces carriers with these dubious ripped contracts.

    Sexy White Z30
    You mean like how BlackBerry forced Carriers to fork over $5 per user per month for BIS back in the day.......

    Verizon had a chance to be the launch carrier for the iPhone, and passed, AT&T took the risk. I don't like the Apple contracts and see how they do and can influence the carriers to push Apple over the competition, but if you can get away with it, good for them. BlackBerry treated carriers similarly when they could and when the carriers realized that they could push other things and stick it to BlackBerry they did. Mike and Jim were arrogant and damaged those relationships with carriers with their arrogance.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-15 10:48 AM
  14. lnichols's Avatar
    Why on God's Green Earth would anybody using BB10 go with a piece of iCrap? Like seriously, unless people haven't tried BB10 before.

    Sexy White Z30
    Let's see:

    No device to replace my Z30 in the future.

    They have basically stated I'm not their customer or their target customer.

    BlackBerry as a company is a circus.

    They have abandoned me before with the PlayBook, and now appear to be doing the same with Z line (no the Leap is not an option).

    I know that Apple and Google / Samsung will offer and improved device every year, meaning that every two years you will get a much improved device where BlackBerry will release a device two years later with the same specs and minor improvements, while optimizing the software for low end hardware.

    Just a few reasons I'll be looking first for a tablet from the competition, and probably be leaving for good as it is clear Chen wants to kill off the handset business once he has the Software side ready. I'm sure it will work out great for them since their software has always had a history of being on time and not full of bugs.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-15 10:57 AM
  15. jmr1015's Avatar
    Why on God's Green Earth would anybody using BB10 go with a piece of iCrap? Like seriously, unless people haven't tried BB10 before.

    Sexy White Z30
    Ecosystem. Continuity. Unparalleled after-purchase customer care and service. Timely software updates direct from the manufacturer. No leaks or waiting for carrier approval on software updates. Continual software updates for 3 to 4 years. Things tend to be released on time. Phones that offer performance as good or better than the best flagships on the market for its given upgrade cycle. Award winning camera. Etc etc etc

    And the most important factors of all: personal preference and freedom of choice.
    03-21-15 06:44 PM
  16. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Let's see:

    No device to replace my Z30 in the future.

    They have basically stated I'm not their customer or their target customer.

    BlackBerry as a company is a circus.

    They have abandoned me before with the PlayBook, and now appear to be doing the same with Z line (no the Leap is not an option).

    I know that Apple and Google / Samsung will offer and improved device every year, meaning that every two years you will get a much improved device where BlackBerry will release a device two years later with the same specs and minor improvements, while optimizing the software for low end hardware.

    Just a few reasons I'll be looking first for a tablet from the competition, and probably be leaving for good as it is clear Chen wants to kill off the handset business once he has the Software side ready. I'm sure it will work out great for them since their software has always had a history of being on time and not full of bugs.

    Posted via CB10
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!!!!!

    Sure hope someone at BlackBerry is paying attention... and pushing back at god Chen.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX and BB_Junky like this.
    03-21-15 07:24 PM
  17. RyanGermann's Avatar
    If someone is considering getting an iPhone through this trade-in deal, then the Leap will hardly be enough to keep them with BlackBerry. Even looking at Crackberry, its clear that nearly no one considers the Leap to be an upgrade to whatever BlackBerry they are carrying. IMHO, BlackBerry is crazy to ignore the risk that these upgrade-hungry customers will stray to other competitors and BlackBerry should be launching products that meet the desires of current customers.
    The people who are running away from BB10 at this stage are not doing so because of the specs of available devices: that assertion is not backed by anything like what could be called 'human nature'.

    BB10 users may be UNHAPPY because the available devices are not powerful enough BUT that is not the same as the suggestion that a powerful-enough device would make non-BB users happy to switch to BlackBerry! It's mugatu time again!



    it's like this: users happy with BB10 and it's ecosystem (or lack thereof) but not happy with their device are not going to switch away because BlackBerry doesn't offer a bleeding edge device: BlackBerry knows this.

    Likewise, users of Android and iOS who are happy with their OS and its ecosystem may be intrigued by a BB10 super phone, but they won't be happy without their apps, so they won't switch either.

    The app gap relegates BlackBerry to a niche position. That is the way it is and won't change unless something seismic in nature happens to BB or the smartphone market in general (like if ISIL hackers gain access to Google's central data repository and literally compromise the quality of life of everyone who has a Google account... something big like that). Android users will buy Android devices from Samsung mostly and will not settle for a second-rate Android experience on non Samsung hardware: there is 2 years hard data on this fact, so I think Mugatu must reiterate:



    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 03-21-15 at 09:52 PM.
    03-21-15 09:39 PM
  18. RyanGermann's Avatar
    So BlackBerry doesn't have any sales figures broken down
    You cherry pick data and hope it makes your point but the point is it is pointless debating you. You mention the increased ASP on the devices after launch: THE SAME ONES they took a billion dollar write down on a few months later? Just stop. If "#winning" a debate matters to you, please declare yourself winner and me not smart enough to convince the invincible unconvincible, I. just. don't. care.
    03-21-15 09:42 PM
  19. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    The people who are running away from BB10 at this stage are not doing so because of the specs of available devices: that assertion is not backed by anything like what could be called 'human nature'.

    BB10 users may be UNHAPPY because the available devices are not powerful enough BUT that is not the same as the suggestion that a powerful-enough device would make non-BB users happy to switch to BlackBerry! It's mugatu time again!

    rtsp://v4.cache4.c.youtube.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQn7duxOmLriHBMYJCAkFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSA RSBXdhdGNoYNKj3c7x1ZGCUQw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

    it's like this: users happy with BB10 and it's ecosystem (or lack thereof) but not happy with their device are not going to switch away because BlackBerry doesn't offer a bleeding edge device: BlackBerry knows this.

    Likewise, users of Android and iOS who are happy with their OS and its ecosystem may be intrigued by a BB10 super phone, but they won't be happy without their apps, so they won't switch either.

    The app gap relegates BlackBerry to a niche position. That is the way it is and won't change unless something seismic in nature happens to BB or the smartphone market in general (like if ISIL hackers gain access to Google's central data repository and literally compromise the quality of life of everyone who has a Google account... something big like that). Android users will buy Android devices from Samsung mostly and will not settle for a second-rate Android experience on non Samsung hardware: there is 2 years hard data on this fact, so I think Mugatu must reiterate:

    http://v4.cache4.c.youtube.com/CjYLE.../0/0/video.3gp

    Posted via CB10
    You have certainly read this forum enough to know that people can and do leave BlackBerry for any number of reasons, but the old/low specs of BlackBerry's product portfolio and poor ecosystem are common complaints. So, of course those customers may leave because they see BlackBerry falling into this same pattern once again with its current offerings (like the Leap) packing old/low specs all while the the native app situation is even worse and the Android patch leaves much to be desired. So say Apple hands this customer a trade-in/discount on a new iPhone 6 or 6+, which comes with its custom 64-bit chip, great specs, and the best ecosystem on the planet. Or say Google makes a similar offer. You had better believe that some BlackBerry People will leave and never look back! I imagine that this scenario has already played out literally millions of times. Why is it hard for you to believe that itll continue?

    If BlackBerry had an all-touch flagship with Passport specs, at least they would have a respectable candidate in that category to keep the BlackBerry customers who have been begging for an upgrade for far longer than they should have have been forced to. I mean, what is gained by leaving these customers out in the cold?
    03-21-15 10:36 PM
  20. techvisor's Avatar
    Ecosystem.
    Also 5.5 inch screen doesn't hurt.
    03-21-15 11:06 PM
  21. anon(5061193)'s Avatar
    You can (and will) play the spec game all day long..... It means nothing to 99.9% of the world.... People want a "cool" phone that works.... and Blackberry has not been able to make a phone that was "cool" they do make many that "work" great but are not "cool"... It's all marketing....... Blackberry fell way behind and are trying to scratch out a small chunk of market share... Part of the charm of my Blackberry is BECAUSE nobody els has them. That is my statement....

    IE: People line-up for days to get the "new" iPhone and most of them do not even know what the new one does!!! They want it because Apples marketing convinced them that they "need it"...... They are not buying it because it has an extra gig of RAM or any of the other silliness that we all talk about....
    03-22-15 08:26 AM
  22. birdman_38's Avatar
    They want it because Apple's marketing convinced them that they "need it"
    Apple's marketing is far-reaching and highly thought out. It only makes the biggest tech company in the world even bigger.
    JeepBB and techvisor like this.
    03-22-15 08:48 AM
  23. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    You can (and will) play the spec game all day long..... It means nothing to 99.9% of the world.... People want a "cool" phone that works.... and Blackberry has not been able to make a phone that was "cool" they do make many that "work" great but are not "cool"... It's all marketing....... Blackberry fell way behind and are trying to scratch out a small chunk of market share... Part of the charm of my Blackberry is BECAUSE nobody els has them. That is my statement....

    IE: People line-up for days to get the "new" iPhone and most of them do not even know what the new one does!!! They want it because Apples marketing convinced them that they "need it"...... They are not buying it because it has an extra gig of RAM or any of the other silliness that we all talk about....
    Marketing is important, but performance is key. Apple doesnt have the top customer satisfaction scores because of marketing promises, but rather because they are delivering great results, products, services, and experiences. Take the near-perfect 99% customer approval rating for the iPhone 6 and 6+ that Apple was bragging about at the Apple watch event for example. Every company out there ought to be envious of that number. That sort of accomplishment takes more than mere marketing hype, it takes robust performance in all dimensions, including hardware, software, retail, partnerships, and support. How does BlackBerry stack up in these dimensions?

    I own the Z10, the Z30, and the iPhone 6+, so I directly experience both sides. Id just rather BlackBerry make its hardware more mainstream in design and more spec/performance competitive, because those specs will support a better user experience and will start restoring the BlackBerry reputation as a smartphone technology leader, if the company still cares to remain in the hardware business.
    03-22-15 09:25 AM
  24. JeepBB's Avatar
    You can (and will) play the spec game all day long..... It means nothing to 99.9% of the world.... <snip>... It's all marketing.......
    There's an expression in my part of the world: "You can polish a turd 'til it gleams, but it's still a turd".

    Apple wouldn't be selling more ever devices, every year, and closing in on being the first TRILLION dollar company in history if all there was to their continued success was marketing.

    Apple's marketing is excellent, but surely the entire purpose of marketing is to convince buyers that they "need" a product. "Need" in quotes, because of course nobody "needs" a smartphone, anymore than they "need" a shiny new car, TV, fridge, stereo, camera, shoes, etc, etc. The purpose of marketing and advertising is to make that "want" seem like a "need".

    I realise that this will come as a shock to many CB'ers, but most iPhone buyers aren't actually mindless fools, and are perfectly capable of choosing a product that suits them and their lifestyle. They are certainly influenced by marketing and advertising, which is surely its purpose, but they won't repeatedly spend their cash on turds, buying more of them every year, no matter how shiny it is.
    03-22-15 10:09 AM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    There's an expression in my part of the world: "You can polish a turd 'til it gleams, but it's still a turd".

    Apple wouldn't be selling more ever devices, every year, and closing in on being the first TRILLION dollar company in history if all there was to their continued success was marketing.

    Apple's marketing is excellent, but surely the entire purpose of marketing is to convince buyers that they "need" a product. "Need" in quotes, because of course nobody "needs" a smartphone, anymore than they "need" a shiny new car, TV, fridge, stereo, camera, shoes, etc, etc. The purpose of marketing and advertising is to make that "want" seem like a "need".

    I realise that this will come as a shock to many CB'ers, but most iPhone buyers aren't actually mindless fools, and are perfectly capable of choosing a product that suits them and their lifestyle. They are certainly influenced by marketing and advertising, which is surely its purpose, but they won't repeatedly spend their cash on turds, buying more of them every year, no matter how shiny it is.
    Exactly. They provide the best experience of any company hands down. From the sale, to the service to the support. Even the carriers tell you to go to the Apple because they will take way better care of you than they can. Apple hasn't brain washed anyone, they prove that happy customers sell more devices than anything, and they have made most of their customers happy. They tie everything together so if you have the complete ecosystem, or part it all works together great.

    BlackBerry on the other hand treats the end users poorly. BBOS devices that couldn't get the next update. Lying about the PlayBook to get people on board. Look at antenna gate for Apple. Even though they at first tried to avoid it like any company would do they finally offered up a solution of free bumpers to the customer. BlackBerry sold PlayBooks promising BB10, didn't deliver and said they were looking into ways to do something for those customers and then did nothing. Customer satisfaction is key, and BlackBerry is probably the worst of the companies at it, and their sales reflect it.

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-15 10:48 AM
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