1. nadia mubarak's Avatar
    I had a Blackberry Keyone, unfortunately it broke. I am about to order a new one, I think the protection was not enough.
    I have a question the model BBB100-2 since it says global, international, does it mean that includes the states?
    The model BBB100-2 gives me more options to use it in other countries but, want to make sure it includes the states .
    Thanks in advance.
    stephenabm likes this.
    11-18-21 08:22 PM
  2. the_boon's Avatar
    Someone will soon tell you to buy a 5G phone instead of that KEYone.
    mikael11 likes this.
    11-18-21 10:57 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    No, "international" generally means "Europe and Asia" as opposed to the US, which will almost always have US-specific models. An "international" phone will lack important radio bands, which means that even today, it might not work at all in certain areas and might work fine in others. That situation is due to get much worse as the 3G shutdown/5G transition takes place early next year in the US.

    The 5G transition is a MAJOR cellular network change, and IMO it does not make sense to buy any non-5G phone today, as even if it works fine today, it may be useless to you in just a month or two. What would you do if your phone didn't work at home, or didn't work at work, or didn't have coverage for much of your daily commute? Folks without 5G support - especially phones that lack ALL of the LTE radio bands in use by your carrier - are going to have big coverage gaps after the transition, and for most people, that's going to be more than just a minor inconvenience.

    You also have to consider that the K1 hasn't had a security update in more than a year, and that means they are vulnerable to hundreds of published security holes, some of them "severe" - and that's only going to get worse with time.

    If you can afford to throw away whatever money it costs for a K1 just as a collectors item/toy, then do what you like, but if you are looking to buy a daily-driver/primary use phone, you need to realize that a K1 isn't likely to be able to fill that role - in fact, no BB-branded phone is really going to be able to do that for the vast majority of people in the US next year.
    11-19-21 05:28 AM
  4. the_boon's Avatar
    No, "international" generally means "Europe and Asia" as opposed to the US, which will almost always have US-specific models. An "international" phone will lack important radio bands, which means that even today, it might not work at all in certain areas and might work fine in others. That situation is due to get much worse as the 3G shutdown/5G transition takes place early next year in the US.

    The 5G transition is a MAJOR cellular network change, and IMO it does not make sense to buy any non-5G phone today, as even if it works fine today, it may be useless to you in just a month or two. What would you do if your phone didn't work at home, or didn't work at work, or didn't have coverage for much of your daily commute? Folks without 5G support - especially phones that lack ALL of the LTE radio bands in use by your carrier - are going to have big coverage gaps after the transition, and for most people, that's going to be more than just a minor inconvenience.

    You also have to consider that the K1 hasn't had a security update in more than a year, and that means they are vulnerable to hundreds of published security holes, some of them "severe" - and that's only going to get worse with time.

    If you can afford to throw away whatever money it costs for a K1 just as a collectors item/toy, then do what you like, but if you are looking to buy a daily-driver/primary use phone, you need to realize that a K1 isn't likely to be able to fill that role - in fact, no BB-branded phone is really going to be able to do that for the vast majority of people in the US next year.
    You really believe all LTE-only phones are gonna be essentially useless in a month or two?

    I don't buy it. There were LTE-only phones being sold on the market as recently as this year or late last year, such as the Pixel 4a. So Google released a phone in a market where it would become useless less than 1.5 years after release?
    11-19-21 07:57 AM
  5. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    You really believe all LTE-only phones are gonna be essentially useless in a month or two?

    I don't buy it. There were LTE-only phones being sold on the market as recently as this year or late last year, such as the Pixel 4a. So Google released a phone in a market where it would become useless less than 1.5 years after release?
    They won't be useless..... but they will be less than optimum.

    Yes if you bought a Pixel 4a it's not going to connect 5G networks and will soon lose access to 3G networks in the USA. For some it maybe a minor annoyance, for other it could be a very noticeable issue. Major transitional movements generally catch some out of sync.

    My wife has a 5G phone and we have found several situation locally and in traveling where it has better coverage than my 3G/4G phone - so I'm already at a disadvantage. Once 3G is gone, it would be even worse as there are times my phone drops down to 3G...
    11-19-21 08:32 AM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You really believe all LTE-only phones are gonna be essentially useless in a month or two?

    I don't buy it. There were LTE-only phones being sold on the market as recently as this year or late last year, such as the Pixel 4a. So Google released a phone in a market where it would become useless less than 1.5 years after release?
    I can verify the less than optimal part. I noticed some differences on my XR and 5a that I've written about. I've seen coverage degradation on both with AT&T, Google Fi and T-Mobile on the LTE side. I believe 3G has been partially turned down shifting demand onto VoLTE for load demand testing and balancing. On AT&T, there's basically regular LTE and 5Ge which is not 5G but really newer improved LTE on newer LTE devices through backhaul.

    The KEYone and older LTE devices from various OEMs don't get the improved LTE so that's one issue. The newer LTE devices like XR and 3a for me are showing LTE more so network demand seems to suffer without true 5G coverage. I believe it's simply going to be a congestion issue as the networks will need 4G/5G to handle the former 3G phone traffic.
    11-19-21 09:26 AM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    You really believe all LTE-only phones are gonna be essentially useless in a month or two?

    I don't buy it. There were LTE-only phones being sold on the market as recently as this year or late last year, such as the Pixel 4a. So Google released a phone in a market where it would become useless less than 1.5 years after release?
    Not all phones and not for everyone, but many LTE-only phones, and worse in some areas than others. But if you're starting with a phone that is already missing a bunch of important bands - which is the case if you buy an "international" phone and use it in the US - then you're almost certainly going to have problems once 3G is gone.

    Make no mistake, though - LTE-only phones WILL see a reduction in coverage compared to today, and whether that's a deal-breaker for people or not is going to depend on the phone and the area (whether or not the phone has a workable radio band that's used in that area). Some people will find their phones unusable because they won't have coverage in areas that are vital for them, and others may only find it occasionally inconvenient because they'll lose coverage in areas that are places they are only in once in a while.

    Not sure why anyone finds this controversial - it's just how transitions work. People went through this when 2G was shut down, though many fewer people were affected. This is the first transition since the analog (1G) to digital (2G) transition happened, which obviously involved orders of magnitude fewer people, where a significant percentage of the overall userbase will be affected, so you can expect some people to be affected who didn't realize it was coming. But they'll call their carriers, their carriers will explain the transition, and most people will buy a phone from the carrier, perhaps with a discount, and that will be that.
    11-19-21 01:39 PM
  8. pdr733's Avatar
    Don't know how it works in the US (as I am located in Europe), here 5G deployments are going to complement, rather than replace, 4g deployments when 3G is shutting down.
    Generally, if you want a phone to last you several years its recommended to buy a 5G capable phone. So when 5G is deployed it can take advantage of that.
    11-19-21 04:00 PM
  9. nevilleadaniels's Avatar
    Not all phones and not for everyone, but many LTE-only phones, and worse in some areas than others. But if you're starting with a phone that is already missing a bunch of important bands - which is the case if you buy an "international" phone and use it in the US - then you're almost certainly going to have problems once 3G is gone.

    Make no mistake, though - LTE-only phones WILL see a reduction in coverage compared to today, and whether that's a deal-breaker for people or not is going to depend on the phone and the area (whether or not the phone has a workable radio band that's used in that area). Some people will find their phones unusable because they won't have coverage in areas that are vital for them, and others may only find it occasionally inconvenient because they'll lose coverage in areas that are places they are only in once in a while.

    Not sure why anyone finds this controversial - it's just how transitions work. People went through this when 2G was shut down, though many fewer people were affected. This is the first transition since the analog (1G) to digital (2G) transition happened, which obviously involved orders of magnitude fewer people, where a significant percentage of the overall userbase will be affected, so you can expect some people to be affected who didn't realize it was coming. But they'll call their carriers, their carriers will explain the transition, and most people will buy a phone from the carrier, perhaps with a discount, and that will be that.
    Analogue was not GSM.
    1G GSM Brought the feature phones.
    2G GSM improved the feature phones with WAP web browsers. Smartphones started to turn up if a higher speeds of data transfer.
    3G GSM show device of the smartphone food to the early stages of LTE under the H+ label
    4G GSM pave duvet for LTE technology to develop and subsequently VoIP became available on 4G.
    5G GSM designed primarily for the internet of things and the fast interaction needed for all types of vehicle including aircraft. The latter which has its own frequencies. 5G can also support a lot more mobile devices including security tags on equipment and food stocks etc. It is being deployed in an aged at 2G still works, even though many places 2G data network has been discontinued.
    And there all of course plenty of 1G telephones still working today.
    As far as I know all analogue networks that preceded 1G have been shut down.
    11-19-21 06:18 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Analogue was not GSM.
    1G GSM Brought the feature phones.
    2G GSM improved the feature phones with WAP web browsers. Smartphones started to turn up if a higher speeds of data transfer.
    3G GSM show device of the smartphone food to the early stages of LTE under the H+ label
    4G GSM pave duvet for LTE technology to develop and subsequently VoIP became available on 4G.
    5G GSM designed primarily for the internet of things and the fast interaction needed for all types of vehicle including aircraft. The latter which has its own frequencies. 5G can also support a lot more mobile devices including security tags on equipment and food stocks etc. It is being deployed in an aged at 2G still works, even though many places 2G data network has been discontinued.
    And there all of course plenty of 1G telephones still working today.
    As far as I know all analogue networks that preceded 1G have been shut down.
    Huh?

    GSM is a standard to describe the protocols for 2G networks. The end.

    3G used UMTS, for networks based on the GSM standard, or CDMA2000.
    Last edited by conite; 11-20-21 at 12:14 AM.
    11-19-21 08:49 PM
  11. Ph1llip's Avatar
    Huh?

    GSM is a standard to describe the protocols for 2G networks. The end.

    3G used UTMS, for networks based on the GSM standard, or CDMA2000.
    Agree. Minor typo, UMTS.
    11-20-21 12:13 AM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Don't know how it works in the US (as I am located in Europe), here 5G deployments are going to complement, rather than replace, 4g deployments when 3G is shutting down.
    Generally, if you want a phone to last you several years its recommended to buy a 5G capable phone. So when 5G is deployed it can take advantage of that.
    The same is true in the US. 3G has to be shut off because there is limited spectrum, so 3G has to be turned off so that 5G can use those frequencies. 4G/LTE will remain.

    However, this is a problem for many older phones for several reasons.

    1. Some phones aren't supported by their carrier for VoLTE (Voice over LTE) - which is the only way to make/receive a phone call once 2G/3G (GSM or CDMA) is shut down. Many people are carrying phones that have LTE support for data, but still rely on 2G/3G for phone calls. Some of those phones can also do VoLTE and will transition without an issue, and some will not. In some cases, it's not a technical limitation but rather a carrier policy that prevents VoLTE.

    2. Even for phones that are supported for VoLTE, there are phones that lack LTE bands that are being used in a given area by their carrier. This is true of phones sold by that carrier, but it's worse for phones not originally sold by the carrier, such as unlocked or "brought from another carrier" (which tend to be missing more bands), and worst for "international" phones which tend to be missing even more bands. All of these phones were totally usable as phones (for making calls) because they could make calls on 3G in areas where LTE coverage was poor or non-existent, even if they normally made calls on VoLTE in good LTE areas. With 3G going away, a lot of people are going to discover just how poorly their phone works on their carrier's LTE network, due to missing LTE bands on their phones.

    3. Phones with 5G support won't have these issues, because they'll be using 5G bands much of the time, including for phone calls in many areas, using the 5G equivalent of VoLTE. Also, some carriers (T-Mobile for example) will be able to utilize some new, lower-frequency bandwidth of the type that AT&T and particularly Verizon built their reputation on, because those lower frequencies penetrate buildings better, travel further, and wrap around terrain better than higher frequencies. This means that 5G phones will probably get better service inside of buildings. There is also ultra-high frequency 5G, which is short-range but very high data rates, that will be excellent for densely-populated areas like stadiums, convention centers, airports, and city centers - places where your phone is often unusable or barely usable because there are so many people trying to use limited bandwidth.

    Europe is in various stages of rolling out 5G and decommissioning 3G (and even 2G), depending on your country, with some actually being ahead of the US but most being behind. Any way you look at it, though, 5G is coming very soon, and you'll need a 5G phone if you don't want to be a "second class citizen" on the cellular networks.
    11-20-21 08:43 PM

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