1. phonejunky's Avatar
    What's the point in BBM security if RIM will eventually be presured into handing your information over anyway, and u have hackers that can gain access to their information? Now of course I'm just asking because I personally believe if this happened it would have been all over the news and I never heard of it. Can anyone confirm or deny this story. Did RIM hand over bbm logs and other things to police? Cause if so all though in a case like this it was needed I wonder how many times they have done this and for what reasons. (Her hair makes me think it's a joke)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&h...&v=1Sa6LAv30W0

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by CrackberryBrandon; 12-04-11 at 09:25 AM.
    12-04-11 09:18 AM
  2. ThePoisonBerry's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure in the Americas the NSA, CIA... have full access to data flowing in and out of RIM servers just like they do with any other type of data. Whereas in other regions gov. agencies are trying to gain access--The issues in India and UAE.
    12-04-11 09:26 AM
  3. phonejunky's Avatar
    Then add in CarrierIQ I don't see how anyone's BB is secure even corporate Blackberry's because someone can and will gain access to your data if they need to.
    12-04-11 09:30 AM
  4. luqman24's Avatar
    Personally I don't care cuz I got nothing to hide which would get me into trouble with the feds but when hackers get involved in all this, then that's when I'd be worried but other than that I don't care. All I use my bb for is comunicate with friends and family so let the feds snoop all they want cuz all they'd get is normal conversations with friends and family.
    12-04-11 09:52 AM
  5. stealthbob's Avatar
    RIM will not protect criminal privacy....

    If there is a warrant for access to certain data from certain individuals it will be taken.

    This goes for ISP's or any other technology that gathers logs of data.

    The notion of true privacy is a fallacy....our data is all out there for the taking. The sheer volume of data mining online is so vast that it is hard to even contemplate.
    12-04-11 09:56 AM
  6. T
    The advantage BlackBerry has always had over other platforms is device level security, that is security of data (messages, contacts, pics, etc.) stored on a password protected, encrypted BlackBerry and its media card. I have never been so nave as to think that the contents of my transmitted messages can't be seen or read by government snoops, but the data stored on my BlackBerry and media card is supposed to be secure. That's the problem the Carrier IQ debacle has brought up. What good is a password protected BlackBerry if a keylogger is capturing and possibly sending the device password to some database somewhere? This is very troubling, and all questions about this need to be answered. If all of it turns out to be true, I may stick a prepaid SIM in my BlackBerry and use it as a dumb phone. In that case, I believe any data I store on my device (passwords, pics, calendar, tasks, memos, etc.) will still be secure because of BlackBerry AES, and the snoops and their carrier facilitators still won't have access to them at least via my device.
    Last edited by Tnis; 12-04-11 at 10:41 AM.
    12-04-11 10:28 AM
  7. Danf's Avatar
    What's the point in BBM security if RIM will eventually be presured into handing your information over anyway, and u have hackers that can gain access to their information?
    Whats the point in home security? why have door locks or other measures if the Police can get a search warrant for your home or burglars can just break in?



    If you actually researched the story instead of getting your "news" from youtube you would know the answers to your questions.

    Rim acts within accordance of the law in any country it does business in. It does not provide anything unless the authorities provide legal justification. Rim does not just hand over info or give access unless the law requires them to do so.
    habs_fan and gladiatorofyale like this.
    12-04-11 11:08 AM
  8. phonejunky's Avatar
    You seem angry about something.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-04-11 11:14 AM
  9. qbnkelt's Avatar
    RIM cannot obstruct justice by refusing to grant information as requestedy by a duly exercised search warrant. e-discovery does not have to rely on locally maintained .pst files.
    That is different from personal security and privacy.
    12-04-11 11:43 AM
  10. phonejunky's Avatar
    So to me it seems like the only thing separating RIM from any other mobile smartphone in today's current competition is the sheer volume of customers using their platform in the corporate world. Am I wrong QBNKELT? And this is a legitamete question.
    12-04-11 05:34 PM
  11. tkwolf's Avatar
    W/ the carrier IQ, as invasive as it maybe sounds, i personally think that it won't matter that much to normal people like us (unless you're secretly a drug dealer or something like that, w/ so much illegal information going in and out of your phone). unless i am missing something...here?
    JR A likes this.
    12-04-11 05:58 PM
  12. Fresh2deathJC's Avatar
    "Immediately before his death, Duggan used BBM to send his girlfriend a message stating "The Feds are following me."

    After being killed by police, questions about whether Duggan was unjustly shot took to BBM like wildfire, fueling rioter's anger who then attacked the local Tottenham police station."


    "Responding to the heat of the London riots, BlackBerry UK told Jerome Taylor, "We feel for those impacted by this weekends riots in London. We have engaged with the authorities to assist in any way we can."

    The company added, "As in all markets around the world where BlackBerry is available, we cooperate with local telecommunications operators, law enforcement and regulatory officials. Similar to other technology providers in the UK we comply with The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act and co-operate fully with the Home Office and UK police forces.

    Surely BlackBerry will hand over information with the proper court documents, but giving the government full access to BBM chat logs seems out of the question, at least, based on RIM's previous actions."


    2 Different Quotes above
    I am very aware of this and followed it just cause I have a friend who lives out there and everyday read her facebook to make sure she was ok. I do think that what they did was with justifiable means, they didn't just say here you go, and hand over anything, they did it with the correct means if they did so at all.
    JR A likes this.
    12-04-11 06:41 PM
  13. AOFSOCAL's Avatar
    Agreed. Personally I have no issue with carrier software on my device that can be used by a carrier to monitor their network. However CarrierIQ functioanlity seems to go far beyond the level of information needed by the carrier for that type of assessment.
    One of the key reasons I continue to choose Blackberry (as a consumer) is for the security. In light of these recent developments, it now appers the Blackberry platform is ultmately not much or any more secure than any other device/platform on which CarrierIQ software or the equivaent has been installed.
    12-04-11 08:38 PM
  14. Xopher's Avatar
    Where the real security lies is with BES, where corporations use their own encryption keys between devices and their servers. RIM won't have access to anything encrypted between handset and BES (like email). That being said, BBM uses a single key, so once messages leave corporate and hit RIM's servers, RIM has access to those. Also, even though RIM won't have access to anything sent to a BES server, that info is still viewable by the BES admin, and law enforcement can obtain that information with a warrant (at least, here in the US).
    12-05-11 08:35 AM
  15. phonejunky's Avatar
    Question, but with carrier IQ does is still matter if someone has BES or not?
    12-05-11 08:57 AM
  16. T
    ^Good question. Needs to be answered.
    12-05-11 09:10 AM
  17. pbfan's Avatar
    doing something against law.
    12-05-11 09:21 AM
  18. sir.dangerfield's Avatar
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe if I lose my BB or it was stolen, a hacker/theif could not pull any info from a properly password protected BlackBerry. Feeling "untouchable" from any Government while on a carrier contract seems a bit silly to me.
    12-05-11 09:52 AM
  19. Jake2826's Avatar
    Question, but with carrier IQ does is still matter if someone has BES or not?
    This is EXACTLY the thing BES protects against. A BES server administrator controls what 3rd party applications are allowed. Carriers can only load their carrierIQ crap on 3rd party applications on the Blackberry OS. This is by DESIGN and why Governments and Fortune 500 companies utilize the system.
    12-05-11 11:07 AM
  20. qbnkelt's Avatar
    So to me it seems like the only thing separating RIM from any other mobile smartphone in today's current competition is the sheer volume of customers using their platform in the corporate world. Am I wrong QBNKELT? And this is a legitamete question.
    Are you sure?!?!?!? you sure you don't want to fight with me?!?!!
    12-05-11 11:28 AM
  21. Branta's Avatar
    So to me it seems like the only thing separating RIM from any other mobile smartphone in today's current competition is the sheer volume of customers using their platform in the corporate world.
    The number of users is not relevant. In this debate the practical difference between BlackBerry traffic and many other systems seems to be that between device and RIM servers the data is routinely protected by a pretty robust encryption. This is strong enough to resist most third party cracking attempts (including government sponsored - ask India, and many mid-east countries). It is unavoidable that RIM must be able to decrypt the data before passing it out of the system, otherwise internet hosted recipients would get unusable cyphertext instead of the original content.

    What it doesn't prevent is disclosure by RIM in response to a correctly drawn warrant or court order. To achieve that would require individual correspondents to use a secure end-to-end encryption like PGP, and either be outside the jurisdiction of the investigation or be willing to defy a court by refusing to disclose content or decryption keys.

    But... I'm sure you knew that already. I'll post this for the benefit of those who don't have your understanding of how it works.
    12-05-11 06:14 PM
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