1. gregorylkelly's Avatar
    First of all, most iPad owners are iPhone owners, so those are not unique iOS users. Add in iPod touches, and you have many people that own all 3 devies (I know a lot that have all 3). That means most estimates of 200 million iMessages users is going to be way off base!

    Now, lets discuss the iPod and iPad users that don't have iPhones. Are you really going to rely on iMessages to contact them when you know they don't carry their iPad and iPod around with them all the time? And even if they do, all iPods and most iPads are WiFi only. That means you can only contact them when they are in a WiFi area. The major advantage BBM has over other IM clients is the "Always On" factor. When you send a BBM, you know the other person will get it. With iMessages, this is only true for iPhone users, not iPod and iPad users. So, the 200 million iMessages user estimates is not a true representation of how many people will be using iMessages.
    06-09-11 11:07 AM
  2. brucep1's Avatar
    First of all, most iPad owners are iPhone owners, so those are not unique iOS users. Add in iPod touches, and you have many people that own all 3 devies (I know a lot that have all 3). That means most estimates of 200 million iMessages users is going to be way off base!

    Now, lets discuss the iPod and iPad users that don't have iPhones. Are you really going to rely on iMessages to contact them when you know they don't carry their iPad and iPod around with them all the time? And even if they do, all iPods and most iPads are WiFi only. That means you can only contact them when they are in a WiFi area. The major advantage BBM has over other IM clients is the "Always On" factor. When you send a BBM, you know the other person will get it. With iMessages, this is only true for iPhone users, not iPod and iPad users. So, the 200 million iMessages user estimates is not a true representation of how many people will be using iMessages.

    So how do you estimate it then? Just because someone has an iphone doesn't mean they are gonna use it. How do you estimate bbm users? there are plenty of blackberry users who dont use bbm.

    See, there just is no way, unless you hear from the company, to count this.
    06-09-11 11:24 AM
  3. gregorylkelly's Avatar
    I agree with what you said completely. I know a lot of BlackBerry users that don't use BBM. My point is just that iMessages is pretty pointless for anyone other than iPhone owners. The other devices compliment iMessages for the iPhone, that is all.

    I have the same feeling about BBM on the PlayBook and computer. I was never in favor of either option as a standalone product. Only as a compliment to BBM on the phone.
    06-09-11 11:34 AM
  4. brucep1's Avatar
    I agree with what you said completely. I know a lot of BlackBerry users that don't use BBM. My point is just that iMessages is pretty pointless for anyone other than iPhone owners. The other devices compliment iMessages for the iPhone, that is all.

    I have the same feeling about BBM on the PlayBook and computer. I was never in favor of either option as a standalone product. Only as a compliment to BBM on the phone.

    Yeah, I think the feature is there, to my understanding, so iphone users can pick up their ipads and not skip a beat..

    But, if people wanted to use it as a standalone message service on their ipad, they could if it was 3g, but email seems so much more practical..
    06-09-11 12:38 PM
  5. howarmat's Avatar
    i thought that iMessages would also become a desktop app for Mac/PCs? therefore available for all. Could be a false rumor but not surprising really.
    06-09-11 01:28 PM
  6. gregorylkelly's Avatar
    I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not trying to bash iMessages. It's just annoying to read how it is better than BBM because it reachers a wider audience with 200+million possible customers. That isn't even remotely true. If someone has an iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch, they are being counted as 3 customers. Also, anyone without an iPhone or 3g iPad (and even that I don't really think will be useful) won't be able to rely on iMessages.

    Like I said before, the reason BBM is great is because when you send someone a message, you know they are going to get it because everyone carries there phone around with them all the time. That will NOT be the case with iMessages.
    06-09-11 02:10 PM
  7. howarmat's Avatar
    ok lets say that the 200 million is wrong. I dont have a problem with that. divide that by 3 and you get 66.6 million give or take a couple thousand. how many BB subscribers are there? 60 millions according to a report about 1.5 months ago. honestly i dont care nor think it matters. But it would appear the at apple would still have more reach
    Last edited by howarmat; 06-09-11 at 03:23 PM.
    06-09-11 02:44 PM
  8. skynny70's Avatar
    So how do you estimate it then? Just because someone has an iphone doesn't mean they are gonna use it. How do you estimate bbm users? there are plenty of blackberry users who dont use bbm.

    See, there just is no way, unless you hear from the company, to count this.
    iMessage does have one big advantage over BBM that I wish RIM had thought to incorporate with BBM. iOS5 will default you to using iMessage over SMS by detecting if the person you are contacting has an iOS5 device. This is genius and will facillitate the widespread adoption of iMessage.

    I know many current and former BB users who never used BBM or in some cases didn't even know what it was. Most people just have it so ingrained in them to SMS because they hear "send me a text" so often.
    Last edited by skynny70; 06-09-11 at 03:14 PM.
    06-09-11 03:12 PM
  9. ADGrant's Avatar
    Some BES BB users cannot use BBM, its disabled by the IT policy.

    I doubt too many iTouch only users will sign up for the service but I could see using it on a 3G ipad.

    The great thing about iMessager and BBM is the delivery and read flags. If you sent a message and it doesn't get delivered or gets delivered and not read, try an SMS, email or phone call.
    06-09-11 03:22 PM
  10. Blacklac's Avatar
    iMessage does have one big advantage over BBM that I wish RIM had thought to incorporate with BBM. iOS5 will default you to using iMessage over SMS by detecting if the person you are contacting has an iOS5 device. This is genius and will facillitate the widespread adoption of iMessage.

    I know many current and former BB users who never used BBM or in some cases didn't even know what it was. Most people just have it so ingrained in them to SMS because they hear "send me a text" so often.
    BBM can integrate SMS, but not in 1 chat, to my knowledge. A lot of people didn't like having SMS in their BBM, and when it first became integrated there wasn't an option to remove SMS but a lot of people complained and RIM gave us the option.

    Frankly, I wouldn't want seemless BBM and SMS. I will text the night away over BBM since I know they are free. I know if someone was on BBM and sending to my SMS adding up on my count, I'd be pissed. I prefer to email just as much as sending SMS if I'm not able to use BBM. Of course if you have unlimited SMS, this is a non issue, but I'm not paying $20 for unlimited SMS.

    Do they atleast offer an option to exclude SMS?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-09-11 03:39 PM
  11. gregorylkelly's Avatar
    I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not trying to bash iMessages. It's just annoying to read how it is better than BBM because it reachers a wider audience with 200+million possible customers. That isn't even remotely true. If someone has an iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch, they are being counted as 3 customers. Also, anyone without an iPhone or 3g iPad (and even that I don't really think will be useful) won't be able to rely on iMessages.

    Like I said before, the reason BBM is great is because when you send someone a message, you know they are going to get it because everyone carries there phone around with them all the time. That will NOT be the case with iMessages.
    06-09-11 03:49 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Also, I watched the videos and I couldn't see the options to send files, voicenotes, location, contacts and I didn't see the options to create a group, just group chat.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-09-11 03:56 PM
  13. ADGrant's Avatar
    Like I said before, the reason BBM is great is because when you send someone a message, you know they are going to get it because everyone carries there phone around with them all the time. That will NOT be the case with iMessages.
    The reason BBM is great is because you know if someone received the message you sent and if they read it.
    06-09-11 05:28 PM
  14. Economist101's Avatar
    First of all, most iPad owners are iPhone owners, so those are not unique iOS users.
    This simply isn't true. ComScore estimates (as of April 2011) that only 27% of iPad users also own an iPhone.

    Apple iPad Owners Aren't Necessarily iPhone Owners Too - Report -- AppAdvice
    06-09-11 05:38 PM
  15. Economist101's Avatar
    Like I said before, the reason BBM is great is because when you send someone a message, you know they are going to get it because everyone carries there phone around with them all the time. That will NOT be the case with iMessages.
    True. But up above you said that iPad users were also iPhone users, so you're kind of arguing both sides (even though the iPad/iPhone overlap is relatively low). At any rate, I think many people will know whether their friends carry an iPhone, an iPad, or an iPod Touch, kind of like how BB users will know that some of their friends own a PlayBook but don't own a BlackBerry phone.
    06-09-11 05:44 PM
  16. howarmat's Avatar
    Also, I watched the videos and I couldn't see the options to send files, voicenotes, location, contacts and I didn't see the options to create a group, just group chat.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    works very well

    06-09-11 06:29 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    works very well


    I'm sure it does but where's the contact profile pics, status updates, location, files, contacts, songs, voice notes sharing, groups, not group chats, groups with chat/photos/calendar, where's the music updates, where's the ability to block a user.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-09-11 07:13 PM
  18. avt123's Avatar
    I'm sure it does but where's the contact profile pics, status updates, location, files, contacts, songs, voice notes sharing, groups, not group chats, groups with chat/photos/calendar, where's the music updates, where's the ability to block a user.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Those features are nice and all, but I think most people really don't care about what other people are currently listening to. That feature has been available for years on iChat and the novelty wears off extremely quick.
    06-09-11 07:21 PM
  19. Economist101's Avatar
    I'm sure it does but where's the contact profile pics, status updates, location, files, contacts, songs, voice notes sharing, groups, not group chats, groups with chat/photos/calendar, where's the music updates, where's the ability to block a user.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    This is interesting. I often read some variant of "all the extra stuff gets in the way of my workflow," yet now the criticism seems to be that this service, which has yet to be released, might lack some of the bells and whistles found in BBM. Instead of trying to check a few boxes off, wouldn't it be wiser to just accept the fact that these are two different services with varying feature sets?
    06-09-11 07:21 PM
  20. howarmat's Avatar
    I'm sure it does but where's the contact profile pics, status updates, location, files, contacts, songs, voice notes sharing, groups, not group chats, groups with chat/photos/calendar, where's the music updates, where's the ability to block a user.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    im sure it has many of those, i dont have an idevice so i can say for sure but **** its been available for like 2 days in beta form. All that and more might be in the actual release
    06-09-11 07:26 PM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Seriously, all you hear on crackberry.com right now is how imessage will kill bbm.
    Im just pointing out that it's nowhere near bbm functionality.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-09-11 07:32 PM
  22. gregorylkelly's Avatar
    True. But up above you said that iPad users were also iPhone users, so you're kind of arguing both sides (even though the iPad/iPhone overlap is relatively low). At any rate, I think many people will know whether their friends carry an iPhone, an iPad, or an iPod Touch, kind of like how BB users will know that some of their friends own a PlayBook but don't own a BlackBerry phone.
    This simply isn't true. ComScore estimates (as of April 2011) that only 27% of iPad users also own an iPhone.

    Apple iPad Owners Aren't Necessarily iPhone Owners Too - Report -- AppAdvice
    Ok, so if that is true, my other argument still holds true. Of those 73% of iPad owners that don't have an iPhone, how many of them are really going to rely on iMessages? The only time they will be able to use iMessages is when they have their iPad on them and they are connected to the internet (3g or WiFi). The truth is that you aren't going to want to send an important "Text" using iMessages to someone that only has a WiFi iPad. It could be hours (or days) before the person actually reads the message. So my argument that the "200 Million" potential iMessages users is a very misleading number.
    06-14-11 11:37 AM
  23. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    So how do you estimate it then? Just because someone has an iphone doesn't mean they are gonna use it. How do you estimate bbm users? there are plenty of blackberry users who dont use bbm.

    See, there just is no way, unless you hear from the company, to count this.

    RIM actually can state how many unique PIN's are making use of BBM, I believe that number is approximately 35 Million of their some 55million subscriber base.

    For Apple, it can't predict the iMessage user base until it is actually in force and see how many duplications are happening.

    200 Million iOS devices, it really would be safe to say that 25% of those devices are owned by multiple device owners.
    then you can do your factor in using RIM's ratio of 35:55
    so the 150 Million iOS devices have a good potential of having 95million iMessage users.

    less than HALF the hoopla
    06-14-11 11:53 AM
  24. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    ok lets say that the 200 million is wrong. I dont have a problem with that. divide that by 3 and you get 66.6 million give or take a couple thousand. how many BB subscribers are there? 60 millions according to a report about 1.5 months ago. honestly i dont care nor think it matters. But it would appear the at apple would still have more reach
    Yes!

    Apple will for sure have MORE reach, using multiple devices with 3 Popular brands, they better have more reach, though we will see how the implementation of it goes.
    I am still questionable if I like it's idea of adding everyone,
    and I can see business people not liking the idea. many of whom have iOS devices
    06-14-11 11:55 AM
  25. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Those features are nice and all, but I think most people really don't care about what other people are currently listening to. That feature has been available for years on iChat and the novelty wears off extremely quick.
    The "currently listening to" feature I agree

    but contact profile pics, and status updates

    twitter is proof people want to see that stuff, and care about it,
    facebook profile pics the notification that someone changed their profile pic being built in and it's priority in the news feed again shows that people like that.

    BBM has them integrated into the closed system, they very much are apart of the social network that is BBM, it isn't JUST an IM client, though that is mostly what it is put out against,
    06-14-11 12:02 PM
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