1. i7guy's Avatar
    Now you've gone off the deep end. How is that better? You cannot do email on it without a BB. You could do web email, but that requires web access too.

    And I don't understand, why is it so bad to get web access on these other devices? You can use WIFI or pay for a data plan. No one is forcing you to do both. So, again, how is the lame Bluetooth email the PB does any better than these other devices? All it is is just basic remote viewing of the same limited email capabilities your BB is locked down to. (i.e. Poor HTML rendering and 32k limit before truncation.) That's awesome!
    Why do I need to sync up multiple devices. Let my PB interface with BB. My BB is the master source. I don't need separate email folders on each device with separate emails.

    If RIM executes this successfully I think it will be a winner.
    02-27-11 08:32 AM
  2. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Why do I need to sync up multiple devices. Let my PB interface with BB. My BB is the master source. I don't need separate email folders on each device with separate emails.

    If RIM executes this successfully I think it will be a winner.
    There is no separate email folders on each device with separate emails. It's all the same; they're identical. With PB, you need to have both devices with you to read your email. With ActiveSync integrated devices you can just pick up whatever device you feel like using and knowing that the email and PIM data info on it is the same as the other device next to it that might be a bit too big for your liking that particular moment. Also, the sync in completely wireless and seamless. You're acting like it's something you have to be bothered with to make happen.
    02-27-11 09:27 AM
  3. i7guy's Avatar
    There is no separate email folders on each device with separate emails. It's all the same; they're identical. With PB, you need to have both devices with you to read your email. With ActiveSync integrated devices you can just pick up whatever device you feel like using and knowing that the email and PIM data info on it is the same as the other device next to it that might be a bit too big for your liking that particular moment. Also, the sync in completely wireless and seamless. You're acting like it's something you have to be bothered with to make happen.
    No I'm saying there are duplicate emails on each device which I'm not fond of. With the Playbook that is not the case, one set of emails. Done.

    To each their own I guess.
    02-27-11 11:08 AM
  4. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    No I'm saying there are duplicate emails on each device which I'm not fond of. With the Playbook that is not the case, one set of emails. Done.

    To each their own I guess.
    Actually, I understand her whole thought process. ActiveSync is like IMAP. Change on one, change on all. Delete on one, delete on all. It does work seamlessly. I would KILL for ActiveSync on my BlackBerry in the native email client... Duplicate emails my backside. And before people jump on the bandwagon and say get iPhone or Android or WinMob... NOT AN OPTION! I'm locked into the RIM ecosystem, and I hence cannot use other devices...
    02-27-11 11:17 AM
  5. howarmat's Avatar
    ^^ right its all synced all the time on all devices. Exchange/activesync are fantastic and probably used at 90% of business already.
    02-27-11 12:03 PM
  6. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    No I'm saying there are duplicate emails on each device which I'm not fond of. With the Playbook that is not the case, one set of emails. Done.

    To each their own I guess.
    Ya man, you're wrong. There is no duplicate email on all of them. The email mailbox content is the same, but if you read it on one, it shows up read on the other, if you read and delete it on one device the same thing happens on the other. Whatever function you do on one device, IT'S AUTOMATICALLY DONE FOR YOU ON THE OTHER. You won't need to mark emails read or delete them on more than one device.

    I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to ActiveSync because you've not used it before with an actual server it was designed to work with... i.e. Exchange! Not fracking GMail or Hotmail.
    02-27-11 03:05 PM
  7. i7guy's Avatar
    Ya man, you're wrong. There is no duplicate email on all of them. The email mailbox content is the same, but if you read it on one, it shows up read on the other, if you read and delete it on one device the same thing happens on the other. Whatever function you do on one device, IT'S AUTOMATICALLY DONE FOR YOU ON THE OTHER. You won't need to mark emails read or delete them on more than one device.

    I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to ActiveSync because you've not used it before with an actual server it was designed to work with... i.e. Exchange! Not fracking GMail or Hotmail.
    So you are saying, if you don't have 3g on your ipad and a wifi hotspot is not avaible, you cannot browse your emails. I have a primary BES and a secondary BIS (along with two viphones in the family). The BES is beyond great for me. I know nothing of activesync except from some associates who have it on their winmo phones.

    So the if the email is not stored on the device you cannot browse your emails except with an internet/wifi connection. If the email is stored on the device there are duplicate emails across all devices.

    I like the playbook architecture better. I can get 100s of emails a day, no synching...the emails (conceptually) are just there.
    02-27-11 04:04 PM
  8. K Bear's Avatar
    So you are saying, if you don't have 3g on your ipad and a wifi hotspot is not avaible, you cannot browse your emails.

    So the if the email is not stored on the device you cannot browse your emails except with an internet/wifi connection. If the email is stored on the device there are duplicate emails across all devices.
    This will be the problem with the Playbook, no Blackberry, no email. Your email will not be stored on your Playbook, it will reside on your Blackberry.
    02-27-11 04:20 PM
  9. i7guy's Avatar
    This will be the problem with the Playbook, no Blackberry, no email. Your email will not be stored on your Playbook, it will reside on your Blackberry.
    That will not be the case with me. OTOH since it has no 3G I can't connect without wifi unless I have my BB. But I can't think of a situation where I would have my PB to get emails but not my phone to get phone calls.
    02-27-11 09:25 PM
  10. i7guy's Avatar
    Actually, I understand her whole thought process. ActiveSync is like IMAP. Change on one, change on all. Delete on one, delete on all. It does work seamlessly. I would KILL for ActiveSync on my BlackBerry in the native email client... Duplicate emails my backside. And before people jump on the bandwagon and say get iPhone or Android or WinMob... NOT AN OPTION! I'm locked into the RIM ecosystem, and I hence cannot use other devices...
    I am very happy not to have delete once, delete all. More than frequently I delete about a months worth of emails on my blackberry, but it stays on exchange.

    OTOH, there are emails I want on my blackberry but not in exchange and I can have that also.
    02-27-11 09:28 PM
  11. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    So you are saying, if you don't have 3g on your ipad and a wifi hotspot is not avaible, you cannot browse your emails. I have a primary BES and a secondary BIS (along with two viphones in the family). The BES is beyond great for me. I know nothing of activesync except from some associates who have it on their winmo phones.

    So the if the email is not stored on the device you cannot browse your emails except with an internet/wifi connection. If the email is stored on the device there are duplicate emails across all devices.

    I like the playbook architecture better. I can get 100s of emails a day, no synching...the emails (conceptually) are just there.
    Let's leave it at that then. It's obvious your credentials on the matter are not sufficient.
    02-27-11 10:02 PM
  12. lnichols's Avatar
    This will be the problem with the Playbook, no Blackberry, no email. Your email will not be stored on your Playbook, it will reside on your Blackberry.
    I can't think of a situation where I'd be without my Blackberry but have a Playbook. And if I ever had this happen and had wifi then I would go to the web version of the e-mail or use the gmail app.
    02-27-11 10:13 PM
  13. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    I can't think of a situation where I'd be without my Blackberry but have a Playbook. And if I ever had this happen and had wifi then I would go to the web version of the e-mail or use the gmail app.
    Most overly secure companies that offer BES BB integration don't always give access to email via a web portal like OWA. Most of those places require a VPN connection and the use of Outlook to get to your email. So, no native VPN client on PB and no full blown email client on it equals no email on PB. If we're going to compare extremes for every platform, let's compare extremes.


    Oh and just for fun, since we're going to extremes here... are you going to take both your BB and PB with you to the bathroom for some light reading? I sense a lot of profit for the first company to come out with a PB case that has a little pocket for your BB too.
    02-27-11 10:29 PM
  14. i7guy's Avatar
    Let's leave it at that then. It's obvious your credentials on the matter are not sufficient.
    I don't have credentials and you can't seem to explain it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-11 11:09 PM
  15. i7guy's Avatar
    Most overly secure companies that offer BES BB integration don't always give access to email via a web portal like OWA. Most of those places require a VPN connection and the use of Outlook to get to your email. So, no native VPN client on PB and no full blown email client on it equals no email on PB. If we're going to compare extremes for every platform, let's compare extremes.


    Oh and just for fun, since we're going to extremes here... are you going to take both your BB and PB with you to the bathroom for some light reading? I sense a lot of profit for the first company to come out with a PB case that has a little pocket for your BB too.
    Not really. OWA can be made very secure. Besides with Bluetooth the phone has to be within 30 feet. 100 or more with the latest BT Revs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-11 11:12 PM
  16. lnichols's Avatar
    Most overly secure companies that offer BES BB integration don't always give access to email via a web portal like OWA. Most of those places require a VPN connection and the use of Outlook to get to your email. So, no native VPN client on PB and no full blown email client on it equals no email on PB. If we're going to compare extremes for every platform, let's compare extremes.


    Oh and just for fun, since we're going to extremes here... are you going to take both your BB and PB with you to the bathroom for some light reading? I sense a lot of profit for the first company to come out with a PB case that has a little pocket for your BB too.
    Well I for one can't use any old VPN client anyway for work, they have to meet some certain standards that currently neither Apple or Google's built in implementations meet right now. I do however know that their will be a VPN client released for iOS, Playbook and Android soon that I can use. Actually the only way I can get to my work e-mail is via the web and Citrix, and its one of the more secure conscience places. So again not an issue for me.

    And as for the other example I have good Wifi coverage throughout the house if that were something I did, Bluetooth has range, but I don't go reading in the bathroom anyway.
    02-27-11 11:15 PM
  17. Sirhill's Avatar
    My question is why is so important to try and make people feel as their choice of a device is such a bad idea because it does not work for you CIVIC. Don't get me wrong I listen to a lot of what you have to say and really do appreciate you views on things. But lately you have been on this soapbox about how every other device is so far advanced than blackberry that I would have thought you hated the damn device. I know you have issue with blackberries and th way they handle certain things but really you are preaching to the choir of one. Look if the iphone works for you GREAT no one is knocking your choice, but please don't do that of mine. I don't care how good activesync is or what it does, b/c BES does everything that I need it to do and I for one have never had a truncated email in 9 years of using the blackberry o BES steaming from my Military days. So keep fighting the good fight but until the US government and the US military starts using activesync for encrypted email messages than you win.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-11 11:37 PM
  18. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Is that like a triple negative
    Civic you should go into politics
    It's not even a double negative.

    "Not incorrect" is just choice of words, since if your "not incorrect" you're simply "correct." :P
    02-28-11 03:51 AM
  19. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Not really. OWA can be made very secure. Besides with Bluetooth the phone has to be within 30 feet. 100 or more with the latest BT Revs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    30 feet with no interference. WiFi has similar distances and the minute you put walls and doors in the way it degrades less than gracefully.

    Bluetooth isn't that good. If you want a good connection, you will need to have the Blackberry with you. If you're fortunate enough to live in a small appartment or have it charging in a median area where you can get a good BT link between the two, then more power to you.

    Also, with an Android, Windows Mobile (not WP7) or iPhone you can tether a tablet wirelessly via BT (WinMo) or WiFi Hotspot (iOS/HD2/Android).

    However, you aren't limited to one type of phone for email access.

    I think the fact that you have to tether for email is already a bit of a fail for the Playbook. I think the fact that you need a Blackberry specifically will drive some people away even if they thought the price was pretty good, because they won't want to may the difference between Playbook and iPad/AndroidTab01 just to have 85% the functionality of the competing products.
    02-28-11 04:03 AM
  20. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    I don't have credentials and you can't seem to explain it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    No, I and others have explained it several times, but you fail to grasp it because you've never personally experienced it and are going by what others have told you or what you've read or seen. That's not enough to really see how seamless it really works.

    Not really. OWA can be made very secure. Besides with Bluetooth the phone has to be within 30 feet. 100 or more with the latest BT Revs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I never said OWA can't be secure. I said that some places that are super concered about security won't use it because they think even SSL isn't enough to secure the info on the portal site, even though SSL is all that's used by most banking websites anyway. Please don't put words in my mouth.
    02-28-11 10:39 AM
  21. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Well I for one can't use any old VPN client anyway for work, they have to meet some certain standards that currently neither Apple or Google's built in implementations meet right now. I do however know that their will be a VPN client released for iOS, Playbook and Android soon that I can use. Actually the only way I can get to my work e-mail is via the web and Citrix, and its one of the more secure conscience places. So again not an issue for me.

    And as for the other example I have good Wifi coverage throughout the house if that were something I did, Bluetooth has range, but I don't go reading in the bathroom anyway.
    I don't think I said anything about another platform having native VPN capabilities in comparison to the PB. I think you guys are just interpreting posts how you want to because you're trying to defend BB to no end. So, in my example, the person needing their work email that's limited to no OWA because of some wacky security concerns by their IT staff and with no VPN client (which may or may not meet IT requirements in your particular case for the sake of the discussed example) is still limited to using a PC to get to it.

    However, in your case, if Citrix is available to you via a published desktop or app to the newer Citrix clients, than you could use a Citrix client made by Citrix for your mobile platform if one existed... the iOS based platform has such an app.


    I think what you'll find in the end is that what I'm saying is that RIM has built in limitations on how you can get your job done. They don't believe in giving the end user several options for connectivity to solve an issue or to complete a task. They've built it one way and if that way isn't good enough for you, than that's your problem and not theirs because they'll never change.

    The way they are going to do email and PIM integration on the PB is good from the standpoint of getting the PB into Enterprise quickly. (If the Bluetooth connection is broken, so is the remote viewing link for that info.) That makes it super easy for them to enter the Enterprise without worring about too many security tests. However, that wasn't their biggest limitation. Their biggest limitation (and I don't think this has changed recently unless an SP for BES was released that fixed this that I'm not aware of) is that BES can only have one device activation per user/account. Without changing that, they wouldn't have a way to deliver the email and PIM content to the PB device, so they had to come up with something else. The additional benefit that the info is just remote viewing and disappears when the BT link is broken is just a byproduct positive note for them that they've used to overshadow that PIN activation limitation.
    02-28-11 11:02 AM
  22. Rickroller's Avatar
    My question is why is so important to try and make people feel as their choice of a device is such a bad idea because it does not work for you CIVIC.
    I don't think she's trying to make anybody feel anything. If by pointing out flaws in the way something works..people take that to heart..then that's their problem. It's called constructive criticism. Yes..criticism can be hard to hear sometimes..when it's directed at you personally. But for people to feel attacked personally because of criticism of their phone platform is just silly.

    I know nothing of Activesync or BES personally. Most of what CIVIC says goes way over my head..but it seems she knows what she's talking about..and from what i've read it's RIM she's criticizing..not anyone personally..
    JoelTruckerDude likes this.
    02-28-11 11:12 AM
  23. lnichols's Avatar
    I don't think I said anything about another platform having native VPN capabilities in comparison to the PB. I think you guys are just interpreting posts how you want to because you're trying to defend BB to no end. So, in my example, the person needing their work email that's limited to no OWA because of some wacky security concerns by their IT staff and with no VPN client (which may or may not meet IT requirements in your particular case for the sake of the discussed example) is still limited to using a PC to get to it.

    However, in your case, if Citrix is available to you via a published desktop or app to the newer Citrix clients, than you could use a Citrix client made by Citrix for your mobile platform if one existed... the iOS based platform has such an app.


    I think what you'll find in the end is that what I'm saying is that RIM has built in limitations on how you can get your job done. They don't believe in giving the end user several options for connectivity to solve an issue or to complete a task. They've built it one way and if that way isn't good enough for you, than that's your problem and not theirs because they'll never change.

    The way they are going to do email and PIM integration on the PB is good from the standpoint of getting the PB into Enterprise quickly. (If the Bluetooth connection is broken, so is the remote viewing link for that info.) That makes it super easy for them to enter the Enterprise without worring about too many security tests. However, that wasn't their biggest limitation. Their biggest limitation (and I don't think this has changed recently unless an SP for BES was released that fixed this that I'm not aware of) is that BES can only have one device activation per user/account. Without changing that, they wouldn't have a way to deliver the email and PIM content to the PB device, so they had to come up with something else. The additional benefit that the info is just remote viewing and disappears when the BT link is broken is just a byproduct positive note for them that they've used to overshadow that PIN activation limitation.
    The Citrix client is a Citrix Java application, no client installed on the accessing device, all web. You brought up native VPN clients and lack of on PB and said that they would be need for more secure places, but this isn't necessarily true based my example
    02-28-11 12:15 PM
  24. qbnkelt's Avatar
    interesting breakfast reading, this.
    02-28-11 12:44 PM
  25. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    The Citrix client is a Citrix Java application, no client installed on the accessing device, all web. You brought up native VPN clients and lack of on PB and said that they would be need for more secure places, but this isn't necessarily true based my example
    True, so in your case, as long as the Java app is not browser client "picky", it should work on any platform that has a good enough browser, be it the PB, Android, iOS, etc. Not everyone has the same setup as yours and to some extent, your Citrix environment is a bit open to the public... not necessarily from a security standpoint because I'm sure it's got at least SSL, but from an accessibility standpoint. In the end, it's no more insecure than OWA, but if the user config is for published desktop instead of published app for Citrix, it could leave the user's entire profile and thensome open if that username and password was ever key captured off of any PC you might be using. But now we're getting way off topic here... sorry. (I'm just mentioning these factors for the same of discussion.) These factors are why a lot of IT admins require that a Citrix or VPN client be used exclusively only on a company issued laptop. That way, they guarantee the user doesn't choose different endpoint connectivity options on their own and inturn open them up to a few more variables in terms of security. This is the #1 reason why when you talk to someone in IT and they simply tell you something cannot be done or they tell you that it won't work like that, it's more of a white lie. The true answer is that it could work like that if you were to have all the necessary info to set it up, but they choose not to tell you that because they want you to work within the security contraints that they've put in place.


    For example, if you have an Intraweb application that only works on your corporate network via browser access and the company requires you to have a VPN client on your PC to first bridge yourself into the corporate network via that VPN tunnel before you can run the app on the private website, technically there's no reason why you couldn't have the same access from your iPhone for example. The iPhone has a built in VPN client, so you take all your info from the VPN client on your laptop, put it all into the iPhone's client and nail up the connection. Once that's up, the Safari browser can now hit the local Intranet website to run your company app. This may not be a supported config and could in some cases get you fired, but that doesn't mean it cannot work like that and be just as secure as it would be on your laptop. In the end, it's just IT policy that dictates what capabilities one has and nothing more. However, in most cases, that policy is there to protect the company and you from certain security risks that could far outweigh your slight inconvenience of having to break out your laptop to do your work.
    02-28-11 01:07 PM
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