07-08-11 08:25 AM
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  1. katiepea's Avatar
    It's easy to say "millions are bailing" but that's ignoring the fact that blackberry active subscriber numbers are going up not down. For every million that "bails" 2 millions join.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Uhh... Sorry, but that is not accurate, their overall marketshare dropped 1 million users from February, that includes any new subscribers

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 07:19 AM
  2. kbz1960's Avatar
    It's easy to say "millions are bailing" but that's ignoring the fact that blackberry active subscriber numbers are going up not down. For every million that "bails" 2 millions join.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Maybe in foreign countries but not in the US.
    07-06-11 07:25 AM
  3. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Maybe in foreign countries but not in the US.
    Well, I'm writing from one of those "foreign countries" aren't I? Rim is a Global company, there are no foreign countries.
    If you want to get technical US is a foreign country for Rim too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Jake2826 likes this.
    07-06-11 07:32 AM
  4. kbz1960's Avatar
    Well, I'm writing from one of those "foreign countries" aren't I? Rim is a Global company, there are no foreign countries.
    If you want to get technical US is a foreign country for Rim too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yes you're correct but I think you know what I meant. How are the sales in Ireland? Have they increased?
    07-06-11 07:38 AM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Yes you're correct but I think you know what I meant. How are the sales in Ireland? Have they increased?
    I don't know about Ireland but in UK teenagers are going crazy for blackberry and BBM. I believe at Christmas BB was the best selling phone. Go to Blackberry UK and Ireland facebook page and all you see is people posting their pins, BBM is fast becoming a social network.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 07:44 AM
  6. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Uhh... Sorry, but that is not accurate, their overall marketshare dropped 1 million users from February, that includes any new subscribers

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Their overall SUBSCRIBERSHIP not market share has continued to grow NOT shrink.
    07-06-11 07:52 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Their overall SUBSCRIBERSHIP not market share has continued to grow NOT shrink.
    I think some people will never be able to grasp the concept that you can loose marketshare yet still grow. They ignore the fact that the marketshare is growing very fast as more people leave dumbphones over smartphones and new generations of people get to the age where they have a smartphone.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 07:58 AM
  8. kbz1960's Avatar
    I don't know about Ireland but in UK teenagers are going crazy for blackberry and BBM. I believe at Christmas BB was the best selling phone. Go to Blackberry UK and Ireland facebook page and all you see is people posting their pins, BBM is fast becoming a social network.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Good, maybe they will still be around for awhile then. I hope so!
    07-06-11 08:01 AM
  9. grover5's Avatar
    I think some people will never be able to grasp the concept that you can loose marketshare yet still grow. They ignore the fact that the marketshare is growing very fast as more people leave dumbphones over smartphones and new generations of people get to the age where they have a smartphone.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I gave up explaining this awhile ago. I think some get it but it doesn't support their argument as well so they ignore that fact.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 08:03 AM
  10. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I gave up explaining this awhile ago. I think some get it but it doesn't support their argument as well so they ignore that fact.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    we have to keep in mind in the forums, I have to remind myself often, that many posters might not even have a highschool education, and even more so have not been to post secondary and are still young.

    so they live and talk by media consumption.
    ritesh and Jake2826 like this.
    07-06-11 08:11 AM
  11. grover5's Avatar
    we have to keep in mind in the forums, I have to remind myself often, that many posters might not even have a highschool education, and even more so have not been to post secondary and are still young.

    so they live and talk by media consumption.
    That's a good point.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 08:13 AM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Think about it this way, a few years ago the marketshare was a 9inch pizza, today it's a 15inch pizza, a smaller slice of the 15inch pizza it's still larger then a bigger slice of the 9inch pizza.

    Can't explain it any simpler.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    ritesh likes this.
    07-06-11 08:19 AM
  13. ekafara's Avatar
    Think about it this way, a few years ago the marketshare was a 9inch pizza, today it's a 15inch pizza, a smaller slice of the 15inch pizza it's still larger then a bigger slice of the 9inch pizza.

    Can't explain it any simpler.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Mmmm, pizza...

    That's a good way to put it!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 08:26 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    All this marketshare thing seems to be based on estimates anyway, I would like to see some hard facts.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 08:38 AM
  15. Economist101's Avatar
    All this marketshare thing seems to be based on estimates anyway, I would like to see some hard facts.
    The "hard facts" are the quarterly earnings reports of the various manufacturers.
    07-06-11 08:53 AM
  16. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Think about it this way, a few years ago the marketshare was a 9inch pizza, today it's a 15inch pizza, a smaller slice of the 15inch pizza it's still larger then a bigger slice of the 9inch pizza.

    Can't explain it any simpler.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    AND just to further color that tasty analogy -- back then it was just a plain pizza, and maybe your high-end pizza had cheese. Today that 15" pizza has every meat, vegetable, several fruits, and probably a few smelly fish on top (hmmm... sounds a lot like CrackBerry, come to think of it). RIM thought they'd be ok with just some better cheese. Ironically, still in keeping with the theme, a lot of people still prefer a good cheese pizza.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 08:58 AM
  17. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    All this marketshare thing seems to be based on estimates anyway, I would like to see some hard facts.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Impossible to get "hard facts"


    Each manufacturer has different quarters
    They use different means at which to do their accounting

    To get Hard facts one would have to get every global carrier to release figures as to what devices are running on their network and that isn't going to happen.

    the BEST that can be done is looking at the sales figures for the last 24 months, for ALL manufacturers adding them all up, and removing the published failure rates by device from the figures, then doing a market share based on that, but even that will be flawed due to some people replacing frequently and others replacing over a number of years, there was an article that gave 6 or 7 countries average replacement rate for mobile phones, some countries the average was more than 5 years with a device.
    07-06-11 08:58 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The "hard facts" are the quarterly earnings reports of the various manufacturers.
    That only shows devices sold or shipped, not the number of active users.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 09:00 AM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Impossible to get "hard facts"


    Each manufacturer has different quarters
    They use different means at which to do their accounting

    To get Hard facts one would have to get every global carrier to release figures as to what devices are running on their network and that isn't going to happen.

    the BEST that can be done is looking at the sales figures for the last 24 months, for ALL manufacturers adding them all up, and removing the published failure rates by device from the figures, then doing a market share based on that, but even that will be flawed due to some people replacing frequently and others replacing over a number of years, there was an article that gave 6 or 7 countries average replacement rate for mobile phones, some countries the average was more than 5 years with a device.
    I thought Rim was able to tell the number of active subscribers, 68 millions is the last figure I remember. And let's not forget a lot of smartphones are bought and sold on ebay and manufacturers make no money out of those, except Rim that gets a cut of the data plans.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 07-06-11 at 09:08 AM.
    07-06-11 09:05 AM
  20. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I thought Rim was able to tell the number of active subscribers, 68 millions is the last figure I remember. And let's not forget a lot of smartphones are bought and sold on ebay and manufacturers make no money out of those, except Rim that gets a cut of the data plans.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com


    Yes RIM can provide details of the active subscribers using BIS/BES, but that doesn't include those who are using Blackberry's as Pay as you Go, with no Dataplan.
    And how do you then compare to the rest of the devices market share? they don't have BIS/BES for tracking.
    07-06-11 09:09 AM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Yes RIM can provide details of the active subscribers using BIS/BES, but that doesn't include those who are using Blackberry's as Pay as you Go, with no Dataplan.
    And how do you then compare to the rest of the devices market share? they don't have BIS/BES for tracking.
    Those should not fall in the smart phone category.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 09:13 AM
  22. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Those should not fall in the smart phone category.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    why not?

    They can access the internet over wifi with alternative browsers, they can get email via the browser. they have all the PDA functionality of smartphones 5 years ago. I don't see how pay as you go negates the ability to call it a smartphone
    07-06-11 09:15 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    why not?

    They can access the internet over wifi with alternative browsers, they can get email via the browser. they have all the PDA functionality of smartphones 5 years ago. I don't see how pay as you go negates the ability to call it a smartphone
    You can't count wifi use, if you have to rely on wifi it's not a mobile phone anymore.

    Anyway, what's the point of a "marketshare" if it's just an estimate?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 09:25 AM
  24. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    You can't count wifi use, if you have to rely on wifi it's not a mobile phone anymore.

    Anyway, what's the point of a "marketshare" if it's just an estimate?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    There is NO point to market share IMO.

    in my Market I OWN the market share with about 80% in my primary markets. that doesn't mean I get to work less, I have to chase every little tiny bit and try and find new markets to sell into.

    Market share is something the media get to talk about, it is something marketing people like to talk about, but in terms of how a company is doing revenue and profit should matter more.

    as for can't count wifi, my friend Roseanne just purchased (was given) a 8520, she had NO interest in moving from her last freebee flip phone she was given 4 years ago, but her carrier insisted so she took it, still no data plan, BUT she is without wifi maybe 30 hours a week, Every friends house has wifi, work, home, coffeeshops 20 of those hours are spent on a bicycle or running so she doesn't need anything but phone calls.


    You can't discount wifi
    07-06-11 09:31 AM
  25. ADGrant's Avatar
    why not?

    They can access the internet over wifi with alternative browsers, they can get email via the browser. they have all the PDA functionality of smartphones 5 years ago. I don't see how pay as you go negates the ability to call it a smartphone
    Getting email via a BB browser is a very painful experiance.
    07-06-11 01:36 PM
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