07-02-11 03:45 PM
77 1234
tools
  1. katiepea's Avatar
    feel free to start here and ask the people who say they know
    06-30-11 07:21 PM
  2. kbz1960's Avatar
    Why would RIM even think about responding at all if it weren't true? As if they don't get enough bad press now.
    katiepea likes this.
    06-30-11 07:22 PM
  3. sgt50's Avatar
    Whether the letter is legit or not, it touched a nerve in RIM, as a former user of the Curve, 9000 and 9800 I love RIM products, but its not what I want in a device, this day and age people use the devices for just about everything, its like when walmart started popping up everywhere, one stop shopping. Until RIM listens to its consumer base, it will be lost.

    I pray that they ditch EVERYTHING to work on the QNX OS for the next device, I feel that if they dont they will be spending that 3 billion to keep the company afloat.
    06-30-11 07:31 PM
  4. johnenglish's Avatar
    Maybe it's because the letter wasn't written to criticize management; it was written to help save the company. I'm not sure there's a way to discuss the problems of anything without criticizing its leadership, at least indirectly.
    I agree, but an anonymous letter to the media is not the way to do it. If you *really* want change then gather a gorup of like minded employees and send an internal letter to management and the directors and sign your names to it.

    Making the letter anonymous take away a lot of credibility.
    06-30-11 07:31 PM
  5. johnenglish's Avatar
    Why would RIM even think about responding at all if it weren't true? As if they don't get enough bad press now.
    Becuase if they didn't respond they people would criticize them for not caring and ignoring problems. The fact that the letter got such widespread traction so quickly (CNBC was discussing it) meant that they HAD to respond. To keep silent would have been worse.
    06-30-11 07:33 PM
  6. katiepea's Avatar
    Becuase if they didn't respond they people would criticize them for not caring and ignoring problems. The fact that the letter got such widespread traction so quickly (CNBC was discussing it) meant that they HAD to respond. To keep silent would have been worse.
    i disagree, but that isn't going to be my point, the response they offered is worse than 1. an appropriate response 2. no response at all
    06-30-11 07:34 PM
  7. grover5's Avatar
    feel free to start here and ask the people who say they know
    Thanks. That was the guy who I said insinuated knowledge but was a person that I had never seen before on the forums. That and 2 new letters from BGR isn't convincing for me. I don't believe BGR because I know they need publicity and hits to grow. Did you have another link? You had suggested I start with that one but I already saw that one.
    06-30-11 07:35 PM
  8. katiepea's Avatar
    nah that'll be all from me, you just keep denying everything and that'll make it not real, if i had to guess at what percentage of critical thinking people here think it's real it'd be around 90% likely, i'm done with this ridiculously ******** argument as to whether or not it's real. let's now assume it isn't, because even at that point, it no longer matters, it's impact was identical, and RIM's response...even worse. it made it's way to a major investor topics program and got to where it would have been if it WAS real. like i said earlier, if it isn't real then RIM needs to sue right now, because that's slander, i also think that if RIM didn't think it was genuine they would have just outright said 'this letter is totally bogus" instead they've taken the position of not being able to be wrong, because obviously they think it's real.

    maybe a more important topic would be to ask yourself what in that letter isn't true, even if it's made up, there's no doubt morale is low, stock has dropped 50%, there are layoffs, delays, people are mocking your products, insane developer backlash and abandoning. instead of debating who wrote it, lets debate it's content.
    06-30-11 07:39 PM
  9. grover5's Avatar
    nah that'll be all from me, you just keep denying everything and that'll make it not real, if i had to guess at what percentage of critical thinking people here think it's real it'd be around 90% likely, i'm done with this ridiculously ******** argument as to whether or not it's real. let's now assume it isn't, because even at that point, it no longer matters, it's impact was identical, and RIM's response...even worse. it made it's way to a major investor topics program and got to where it would have been if it WAS real. like i said earlier, if it isn't real then RIM needs to sue right now, because that's slander, i also think that if RIM didn't think it was genuine they would have just outright said 'this letter is totally bogus" instead they've taken the position of not being able to be wrong, because obviously they think it's real.
    You might be right. I already said I don't think he works there but I don't know.

    The thing is you only have the one source and the desire to believe it is real from what I can gather. In the meantime you have called people uneducated, lazy, inexperienced, trolls and suggested their arguments are ********. During this whole onslaught of insults you have been condescending and aggressive.

    Why? Seriously, you suggested you had information and somebody said from where...and that led to all this?
    Jake Storm likes this.
    06-30-11 07:44 PM
  10. katiepea's Avatar
    because i'm tired of this attitude here, people can't accept truths. even if i posted die hard facts someone would say it was a lie. and the risk isn't worth the result here. i don't care if people need to believe one side of reality, it doesn't change anything. feel free to think i'm being aggressive i'm not, the aggressive mentality started when it was assumed i was lying by dodger(w/e). let's just believe that from here on out.

    you think it's fake, and CNBC doesn't. end of discussion.

    this has become more of a discussion for proving me wrong, because that somehow equals that the letter isn't legit, which i assume to someone in denial of what is really happening with rim would give some level of satisfaction to. HONEY TODAY I PROVED SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET WAS WRONG, BUY RIMM.
    Last edited by katiepea; 06-30-11 at 07:52 PM.
    06-30-11 07:48 PM
  11. grover5's Avatar
    because i'm tired of this attitude here, people can't accept truths. even if i posted die hard facts someone would say it was a lie. and the risk isn't worth the result here. i don't care if people need to believe one side of reality, it doesn't change anything. feel free to think i'm being aggressive i'm not, the aggressive mentality started when it was assumed i was lying by dodger(w/e). let's just believe that from here on out.

    you think it's fake, and CNBC doesn't. end of discussion.
    You based your truths on insider sources. That turned out to not be true. So what were you really asking us to accept?
    06-30-11 07:55 PM
  12. ekafara's Avatar
    I read the letter, then the response. Well I looked at the page looking for the response. I clicked the source thinking the response would be on there but it was the same text as on CrackBerry. I didn't actually think that's what they responded to the open letter with. I've seen all that before. They constantly spew out those numbers whenever faced with criticism. I was hoping or more from it. Maybe they shouldn't have responded. It seems to be a case of damned if you do damned if you don't.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-30-11 08:37 PM
  13. evolutionPlaybook's Avatar
    The person/RIM that prepared the response is obviously one of the incompetent RIM/management that the original letter was referring too. I mean what do you expect in response???
    06-30-11 08:39 PM
  14. katiepea's Avatar
    I read the letter, then the response. Well I looked at the page looking for the response. I clicked the source thinking the response would be on there but it was the same text as on CrackBerry. I didn't actually think that's what they responded to the open letter with. I've seen all that before. They constantly spew out those numbers whenever faced with criticism. I was hoping or more from it. Maybe they shouldn't have responded. It seems to be a case of damned if you do damned if you don't.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    their responses really just seem like hugs and kisses and damage control and reassurance rather than objectively listening. to me the response says they are totally out of control. ... RIM's problems are deep, seriously seriously deep. it's just never addressed, everyone says they know what they're doing, but their responses are always merely distractions to the issue.
    06-30-11 08:41 PM
  15. MinLeonII's Avatar
    I don't know what the letter said, but it sounds like a great lack in integrity. As a BB owner and enthusiast, I wish you guy the very best. Hold your heads up and be strong. Can't wait for the new devices!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-30-11 08:54 PM
  16. mad_eyes's Avatar
    I don't know what the letter said, but it sounds like a great lack in integrity. As a BB owner and enthusiast, I wish you guy the very best. Hold your heads up and be strong. Can't wait for the new devices!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    u should read the letter. especially if u call urself an enthusiast and are gonna post in this thread. the letter makes some good points.

    regarding RIM's response, like many of u, i was thoroughly disappointed. in a nutshell it said:
    • we saw the letter
    • we acknowledge we're in a transitional phase
    • our company is in good financial standing
    • our sales numbers went up

    this is nothing the public didn't already know. they didn't mention anything new or exciting. definitely didn't leave me inspired or confident in them.

    side note: i agree with the original letter about RIM releasing products too soon. the OSes are ridiculously immature in my opinion. when i bought my 9700, os 5 very buggy. if i didn't know how to manually update, no idea how a newbie BB user would cope.
    rollingrock1988 likes this.
    06-30-11 09:33 PM
  17. fonz600's Avatar
    There's that many various RIM threads just now I didn't know which one to reply to but cause I read this one last I'll put it on here.
    Loads on the forum may already know a lot of this but I didn't so just gonna write down what I remember.
    Was having a chat with a mate who is employed by RIM last weekend and as I forget the whole conversation I'll just throw in some stuff that stuck out when I was asking him what someone working for RIM thought bout the rumour mill saying it was going down the pan.

    - RIM has no debt and no loans so could go the next year without selling a single phone and still not worry bout their finances so they don't need to sell devices.

    - RIM are obsessed with security. They still focus way too much on it even though most users don't care if their phones get a virus etc as they will just go and get a replacement.

    - Apps will always be behind on Apple etc cause RIM charge everyone who want to make an 100 just to register their name. Again this is down to security.

    - Although security is paramount in their code it is a laughing stock within the company due to so many leaks etc that come from within the company( Something to do with corporate security but I forget his wording)

    -Apps like BBM and Facebook should be way more advanced than what they currently are as it's RIM who does the code for them. A lot of RIM employees don't understand why BBM is so popular as there is better chat Apps already available and has been for years.

    - RIM aren't too fussed bout American market as it's developing countries that are the biggest market for BB's. RIM has never ended the line to any of it's phones so all the old ones are mega popular in developing countries due to their cheapness.

    I forget what else he said at the moment but it came across as if RIM ain't 100% committed to the mobile market in the future and they are very flippant due to not being in any kind of financial trouble.
    07-01-11 07:30 AM
  18. allengeorge's Avatar
    I was disappointed at the tone of the letter. It felt extremely impersonal, attempted to use past success as a predictor of future performance (which is by no means certain), and didn't address or refute any of the points in the original letter. It was a poor response.

    I'm also torn as to the truthfulness of the original letter, mainly because I don't trust BGR. I can't put my finger on why, but it's partly because they use so many anonymous sources and they never bother to examine their own track record. That, and the letter speaks only in generalities - any one of us could have put this thing together. On the other hand, RIM never rejected its claims, and it all sounds feasible, so...
    07-01-11 08:44 AM
  19. Skeevecr's Avatar
    i disagree, but that isn't going to be my point, the response they offered is worse than 1. an appropriate response 2. no response at all
    Their response was actually the right one, there was a degree of doubting the validity of the first letter without declaring it to be fake as they cannot be certain either way and an acknowledgement of the transition they are currently in the middle of doing anyway.
    07-02-11 07:53 AM
  20. Skeevecr's Avatar
    their responses really just seem like hugs and kisses and damage control and reassurance rather than objectively listening.
    Why should they conduct all their business entirely in public just because some employee or BGR wrote a letter? They couldn't completely ignore the letter so sent out a response acknowledging there had been a letter, anything to do with the content would be dealt with internally or more likely since they were mostly generic issues were already being dealt with.


    i can't believe it. it's like an abusive husband who coddles his wife around people so she doesn't speak up. RIM's problems are deep, seriously seriously deep. it's just never addressed, everyone says they know what they're doing, but their responses are always merely distractions to the issue.
    Lol, so now Rim's management is no long incompetent it is now akin to a wife beater, I wonder who will be the first to claim they are worse than murderers because of something.
    07-02-11 08:00 AM
  21. Jake Storm's Avatar
    ...Lol, so now Rim's management is no long incompetent it is now akin to a wife beater, I wonder who will be the first to claim they are worse than murderers because of something.
    Wait for it... just a matter of time before Mike and Jim are compared to Hitler and Goering.
    07-02-11 12:21 PM
  22. LCromwell's Avatar
    Did you see on FB that Apple MAC stores are telling EE's Instead of giving you health care, working for Apple Should be looked at as an Experience! Apple tells its workers it's time to "work different" and that means unfair compensation and benefits! Now the EE's are trying to Unionize Apple! Bye Bye Apple
    07-02-11 12:52 PM
  23. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Well I've read the letters. And I've read the response. My gut feeling?
    The first letter, after several more reads, seems to me as if the writer went on a search mission, picked up every bit of negativity leveled against RIM, and packaged for mass consumption. The added video lent a particularly slimy feel to me. Something doesn't feel right at gut level. And I listen to my gut instinct.
    The second letter could have been anyone at any company. Someone recently fired. Someone unhappy. My gut feeling this is someone who has failed to perform or who is on a performance improvement plan.
    The third letter does have a greater aura of authenticity. There are details.
    Now.....I find it odd that these letters would come out at this particular time. RIM is like a fighter against the ropes just absorbing punch after punch. The timing leads me to believe that this is an attempt at manipulate the downward spiral of RIM stocks. I do not believe that this is a coincidence nor do I believe that there isn't someone managing this.
    I'm not prone to conspirancy theories.....I don't believe most of them. I do believe that these letters at this time are an effort to destabilise RIM stocks further.

    This is my opinion on these letters. I could be wrong. But at this time this is my impression.
    07-02-11 01:15 PM
  24. katiepea's Avatar
    Well I've read the letters. And I've read the response. My gut feeling?
    The first letter, after several more reads, seems to me as if the writer went on a search mission, picked up every bit of negativity leveled against RIM, and packaged for mass consumption. The added video lent a particularly slimy feel to me. Something doesn't feel right at gut level. And I listen to my gut instinct.
    The second letter could have been anyone at any company. Someone recently fired. Someone unhappy. My gut feeling this is someone who has failed to perform or who is on a performance improvement plan.
    The third letter does have a greater aura of authenticity. There are details.
    Now.....I find it odd that these letters would come out at this particular time. RIM is like a fighter against the ropes just absorbing punch after punch. The timing leads me to believe that this is an attempt at manipulate the downward spiral of RIM stocks. I do not believe that this is a coincidence nor do I believe that there isn't someone managing this.
    I'm not prone to conspirancy theories.....I don't believe most of them. I do believe that these letters at this time are an effort to destabilise RIM stocks further.

    This is my opinion on these letters. I could be wrong. But at this time this is my impression.
    i'll play along, who has an interest in messing with RIM now? apple and google aren't even really competing with RIM anymore, so i think it's a fair question.
    07-02-11 03:14 PM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    i'll play along, who has an interest in messing with RIM now? apple and google aren't even really competing with RIM anymore, so i think it's a fair question.
    I'll play along too. Perhaps they are afraid of what QNX might bring to the table?
    Jake Storm likes this.
    07-02-11 03:37 PM
77 1234
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD