06-13-11 06:05 PM
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  1. R2d2c3po's Avatar
    Hey guys,

    looking at RIM's share price and recent news and analyst articles, I was wondering what the near future will bring for Research in Motion. Reading statements from workers and CEOs makes me even more confused.

    Since I got my first Blackberry a few years ago, I am (like most of the people here) impressed by what you can do with your phoe and how efficient you can work with it. But since then, I cannot understand the seemingly non-existing marketing strategy. I think we all agree on the numerous advantages of a Blackberry, and for me these are lasting and competitive advantages. But why isn't anybody (on TV, in stores, ...) showing them to me? The battery life for example. I was talking to my "IPhone-iPad-Mac"-friend the other day, and he was constantly complaining about the iPhone's Battery life. I said my Blackberry's Battery lasts for up to 5 or 6 days, they have this brilliant phone case that switches off all functions your phone does not need when in your pocket... Now he ordered his first BB. He never heard of that before. I told him that there is the first BB Tablet coming out soon, which can do this and that... Again, he was honestly impressed. So why has he not heard of all these features before? Every person I was telling "I just pre-ordered the PlayBook" was reacting in the same way: "The what? What is that?"

    Form my point of view (here in Germany) that is the key problem of RIM. It is not that they cannot compete with Apple's innovations. It is not that they cannot bring out thousand of different phones (HTC) a year. It is simply that nobody knows about them. And their features.

    If I wasn't constantly keeping me up to date through crackberry.com, I wouldnt know either. I haven't seen ANY advertisement for the Playbook yet, and I rarely have seen some for the phones. And the PB-release is 4 days away.

    How can someone put so much effort in developing and producing something astonishing and then not care about selling it. What follows, obviously, are disappointing sales and earnings.

    To me, there is missing an overall concept. A global and strong marketing concept that ensures that information about BBs are reaching consumers. It is not about being competitive. It is simply about being competitive but not telling anyone. If you would monetise my "information costs" and the time spend from first reading about the PB to my buying decision, that probably would make another few PBs...

    What do you think?

    Greets from Germany,

    Christof
    06-12-11 06:43 AM
  2. thecoach1999's Avatar
    And how does this make RIM the new Nokia?

    Blackberry doesn't insult ppl with their commercials (iPhone). There are lots of advertisement for the PB in Canada and two carriers are promoting PB on their commercials.

    Everyone needs to relax. There are about 2 dozen threads on here slamming RIM. Who Cares.
    06-12-11 10:07 AM
  3. Economist101's Avatar
    Blackberry doesn't insult ppl with their commercials (iPhone).
    Based on current sales numbers, maybe RIM should start insulting "ppl."
    06-12-11 11:21 AM
  4. thecoach1999's Avatar
    Based on current sales numbers, maybe RIM should start insulting "ppl."
    Well if you listen to all the fanboys they did but releasing the PB.
    06-12-11 11:34 AM
  5. R2d2c3po's Avatar
    And how does this make RIM the new Nokia?

    Everyone needs to relax. There are about 2 dozen threads on here slamming RIM. Who Cares.
    This is not about slamming RIM. The fact is that analyst and outsiders seem to more and more "slam" RIM, but for the wrong reasons. That is just what I wanted to say.

    I took the comparison to Nokia from a research that was published a few days ago. I don't think it fits, and that is the point: people tend to quickly believe what a few experts say. If you take a look at the RIM share price, you see what I mean. And you can see why people made up the comparison to Nokia, too...

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to my PB
    06-12-11 12:11 PM
  6. southlander's Avatar
    Hi Christof,

    I guess you could as easily call RIM the "new Apple, circa 1996-97". I mean if we are just looking for a company in trouble to make a comparison, that would do.
    06-12-11 12:29 PM
  7. Spawn12's Avatar
    Tbh the danger is that RIM could very well be the next 'Nokia' if they arent careful...alot depends on their new devices ie the torch2 and bold 9900/9930 which imho should have been released last yr. My main gripe with RIM is that they take too long to bring out new tech...sure ive heard people say oh but the BB OS doesnt need a 1+ghz cpu etc etc...maybe it doesnt but since OS6 it would have helped keep them in check with Android and Apple to some sort of degree.

    Plus the cheap, nasty feel of some of their phones, the torch for instance was off putting...glad to hear that the bold 9900/9930 will be a better high quality finish to previous BB's.

    Anyhow im hoping RIM buck up their ideas because i love BB's...ive used Android and they bore the holy **** out of me plus coupled with atrocious battery life isnt at all appealing and no i dont have time to 'root' their phones. I have an iphone4 which i use for apps ie games and mp3's and to whatsapp with my iphag friends and even thats beginning to bore me to death...but then looking at the hardware thats coming out for Androids makes me think...why the **** cant RIM do it too??...maybe they are too cheap, maybe they havent got the right people in charge whereas apple seem to and its bringing them alot of success whereas RIM are losing out badly.

    They need to fix themselves up because id hate to see them go the 'nokia' way...the playbook as great as it is, should have never EVER been launched without native email and PIM functions...that was a huge huge fail on RIMS part and something that they probably wont recover from for a little while yet...sure its coming but geez come on you cant expect to compete with the ipad if you cant get the basic of apps onto the device before release.

    Anyway just my opinion really...i love RIM and their devices and id be loathed to leave them if they drop the ball any further.
    06-12-11 12:30 PM
  8. Economist101's Avatar
    Hi Christof,

    I guess you could as easily call RIM the "new Apple, circa 1996-97". I mean if we are just looking for a company in trouble to make a comparison, that would do.
    That doesn't work, because RIM is still MUCH better off than Apple was during that period. Also, Steve Jobs wasn't there to ride Apple down into its crater, while RIM has had Mike Laziridis as CEO from the beginning, and Jim Balsillie for most of its existence.
    06-12-11 02:14 PM
  9. nomoredroid's Avatar
    rim will be fine. Nokia abandoned the american market and focused on other nations. Rim understands how important the USA is to sales and reputation.
    06-12-11 02:16 PM
  10. reeneebob's Avatar
    I don't get the battery life argument. I got 24-30 hours on my Galaxy S, and I am on 17 hours off charger with my iPhone 4 and still have 40%. I carried a spare battery for my Galaxy and used it once in 6 months.

    4-5 days battery is all well and good, but who really needs it? Is anyone seriously going to tell me that they never have access to a charger in 4-5 days? If the phone needs charging, I plug it in while I sleep.

    I am honestly curious as to what will happen with the QNX BBs because I have a sneaking suspicion they will have the same battery life as any Android or iPhone, and at that point the BB fans will suddenly be bragging about their 24 hours of battery. It's only good if BB does it, and when BB gets the same 'weaknesses' they will suddenly be features.
    06-12-11 02:31 PM
  11. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    Guten tag und guten abend Herr Christof. Welcome to the forums. I agree with many of your points. However, here in Canada we are seeing Playbook commercials continuously so marketing is happening. Yet whenever someone sees me with mine out in a public place, I get the same reaction as I got in France last week: "what is that?". However, contrary to the negative slant I see in the media (in some cases slanderous and ludicrous, ie CNN and their "herpes" connotation), I have yet to meet someone in person that has had a negative opinion after they've had a chance to interact with my Playbook. I've only had good experiences so far with mine, but it is a bit more challenging to come to grips with this tablet due to the bridging aspect. I personally appreciate this feature, but many consumers will find it burdensome or a nuisance. Personally, I find syncing multiple devices burdensome and a nuisance, bridge allows me to avoid that (+1 RIM).

    After reading your post, I'll be curious to check back later for your thoughts on the Playbook!
    06-12-11 02:47 PM
  12. howarmat's Avatar
    rim will be fine. Nokia abandoned the american market and focused on other nations. Rim understands how important the USA is to sales and reputation.
    really? that seems exactly what RIM has been doing for a good while now. Most of their sales are from the developing countries other than US/CA/UK
    06-12-11 02:49 PM
  13. Snick Snack's Avatar
    I don't get the battery life argument. I got 24-30 hours on my Galaxy S, and I am on 17 hours off charger with my iPhone 4 and still have 40%. I carried a spare battery for my Galaxy and used it once in 6 months.

    4-5 days battery is all well and good, but who really needs it? Is anyone seriously going to tell me that they never have access to a charger in 4-5 days? If the phone needs charging, I plug it in while I sleep.

    I am honestly curious as to what will happen with the QNX BBs because I have a sneaking suspicion they will have the same battery life as any Android or iPhone, and at that point the BB fans will suddenly be bragging about their 24 hours of battery. It's only good if BB does it, and when BB gets the same 'weaknesses' they will suddenly be features.
    Battery life is important not based upon standby but usage.

    My Torch is BT to my PB 24/7 and when I'm in my car my handsfree is also linked up to my Torch. It's also linked to my wi-fi at home when I'm home.

    I get on average 50 emails a day of which I need to respond to at least 95% of those on top of 15-20 emails I send out and my 10-15 phone calls a day.

    Most phones will not suvive that kind of abuse in one day. But my BB will go a full 24 hours before I need to recharge.

    I had a win-mo phone that only lasted 4 hours with that kind of abuse.

    I don't want to be tied to a charger all the time as I'm not always in my office or my car.

    That is why battery is important, not for standby time but how it holds up under heavy duty use.
    06-12-11 02:51 PM
  14. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    Guten tag und guten abend Herr Christof. Welcome to the forums. I agree with many of your points. However, here in Canada we are seeing Playbook commercials continuously so marketing is happening. Yet whenever someone sees me with mine out in a public place, I get the same reaction as I got in France last week: "what is that?". However, contrary to the negative slant I see in the media (in some cases slanderous and ludicrous, ie CNN and their "herpes" connotation), I have yet to meet someone in person that has had a negative opinion after they've had a chance to interact with my Playbook. I've only had good experiences so far with mine, but it is a bit more challenging to come to grips with this tablet due to the bridging aspect. I personally appreciate this feature, but many consumers will find it burdensome or a nuisance. Personally, I find syncing multiple devices burdensome and a nuisance, bridge allows me to avoid that (+1 RIM).

    After reading your post, I'll be curious to check back later for your thoughts on the Playbook!

    While I think it's great that RIM is advertising the PB in their native country, I for one, have not seen a single ad in the US. I'm also someone who spends a lot of time watching focusing on advertisements. That's not good because if RIM wants to even compete with Apple or android phone makers, it has to advertise and it has to advertise BIG.

    I will always believe that their marketing, advertising and PR are RIM's biggest weakness along with their resistance to change and move forward quickly (though the latter is arguable to some.)
    06-12-11 02:53 PM
  15. southlander's Avatar
    That doesn't work, because RIM is still MUCH better off than Apple was during that period. Also, Steve Jobs wasn't there to ride Apple down into its crater, while RIM has had Mike Laziridis as CEO from the beginning, and Jim Balsillie for most of its existence.
    Yes that was my point. Companies can recover even after many, many mis-steps. If everyone remembers Apple even scrapped an ENTIRE OS after years of working on it, at one point. RIM will be fine.
    06-12-11 02:53 PM
  16. Economist101's Avatar
    I had a win-mo phone that only lasted 4 hours with that kind of abuse.
    Windows Mobile isn't exactly the "state of the art" in phones right now, and if we go back to when it was that sets us back to, what , 2005?
    reeneebob likes this.
    06-12-11 02:54 PM
  17. southlander's Avatar
    While I think it's great that RIM is advertising the PB in their native country, I for one, have not seen a single ad in the US. I'm also someone who spends a lot of time watching focusing on advertisements. That's not good because if RIM wants to even compete with Apple or android phone makers, it has to advertise and it has to advertise BIG.

    I will always believe that their marketing, advertising and PR are RIM's biggest weakness along with their resistance to change and move forward quickly (though the latter is arguable to some.)
    I see ads all the time (US). There was one during South Park the other night. I see them at breaks on the Daily Show. I think I even saw one on a CNN break the other day.
    06-12-11 02:56 PM
  18. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    When looking for a phone that will work well for your needs, the most important criteria to investigate is the company's stock price... Check. And all this time I was only looking at features and functionality. I feel so silly...
    06-12-11 03:02 PM
  19. mjs416's Avatar
    Based on current sales numbers, maybe RIM should start insulting "ppl."
    Or dumb down their user base.
    06-12-11 03:04 PM
  20. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    My point was that TV commercials are fairly passive compared to hands on interaction. A new device like this is sold most effectively when you step into a cellular store to look at phones and you walk out with a new phone AND a tablet because the salesperson pushed the device first into your hands and then into your mind.
    06-12-11 03:20 PM
  21. infamyx's Avatar
    My point was that TV commercials are fairly passive compared to hands on interaction. A new device like this is sold most effectively when you step into a cellular store to look at phones and you walk out with a new phone AND a tablet because the salesperson pushed the device first into your hands and then into your mind.
    I have to disagree somewhat. For your average joe, a commercial/advertising is what grabs their attention and puts interest of the product in your head. You see the commercials, you know what it is, you remember the product even if you've never touched it.

    The next time that consumer heads to a store and sees that product that may or may not have piqued their interest from the commercial, they'll go and take a look at it. Then a salesman can move a unit from there.

    You have to assume the average consumer wont go peddling around through a store aimlessly, and i can assure you most people dont just go to phone stores and tech stores just to see "whats up", so you have to get the message out there and loud.

    Think about this for a second. Apple dumps hundreds of millions every year into advertising and it pays dividends. Pull out a tablet, and i bet 90% will ask you if its an iPad or not. Apple has this kind of mindshare where consumers are aware of their products, regardless if they buy it or not.
    06-12-11 04:40 PM
  22. anon(73368)'s Avatar
    Battery life is important not based upon standby but usage.

    My Torch is BT to my PB 24/7 and when I'm in my car my handsfree is also linked up to my Torch. It's also linked to my wi-fi at home when I'm home.

    I get on average 50 emails a day of which I need to respond to at least 95% of those on top of 15-20 emails I send out and my 10-15 phone calls a day.

    Most phones will not suvive that kind of abuse in one day. But my BB will go a full 24 hours before I need to recharge.

    I had a win-mo phone that only lasted 4 hours with that kind of abuse.

    I don't want to be tied to a charger all the time as I'm not always in my office or my car.

    That is why battery is important, not for standby time but how it holds up under heavy duty use.


    Agreed! When I had my evo and tried to use it like a bb it only lasted a max of 6 hrs
    06-12-11 04:50 PM
  23. nomoredroid's Avatar
    i agree rim needs more than a good battery to compete but the new bold line is amazing and the new curve line will target the youth of this nation sending rim straight back to the top
    anon(73368) likes this.
    06-12-11 04:56 PM
  24. reeneebob's Avatar
    Battery life is important not based upon standby but usage.

    My Torch is BT to my PB 24/7 and when I'm in my car my handsfree is also linked up to my Torch. It's also linked to my wi-fi at home when I'm home.

    I get on average 50 emails a day of which I need to respond to at least 95% of those on top of 15-20 emails I send out and my 10-15 phone calls a day.

    Most phones will not suvive that kind of abuse in one day. But my BB will go a full 24 hours before I need to recharge.

    I had a win-mo phone that only lasted 4 hours with that kind of abuse.

    I don't want to be tied to a charger all the time as I'm not always in my office or my car.

    That is why battery is important, not for standby time but how it holds up under heavy duty use.
    My use wasn't standby. Standby I was off charger for over 3 days on both those devices. That is with sending/receiving about 40 emails, texting about 100 times, widgets and live wallpapers running on the SGS, and since the iPhone is still fairly new, downloading apps and playing with them. When I brought my iPhone home and was getting all my apps downloaded, email set up, looking online on it for wallpapers etc, I was still 17 hours before I hit 10%. I did a force discharge and I was streaming Slacker while playing Hang with Friends for an hour before the phone shut down. An hour at 10% running a radio stream and a game is pretty good to me. My husband is still learning his iPhone, and he works in a building where signal is not good with any phone he has had prior to the iP4, and since 9 am this morning he has dropped 14%. By now he would be swapping the battery on his prior phone.

    So, again, I don't see this vaunted 3-5 days battery thing being all that great an argument, and to be fair I only ever got 3 days on my Curve. My Storm was on the charger every night.
    Last edited by reeneebob; 06-12-11 at 05:26 PM.
    06-12-11 05:18 PM
  25. Economist101's Avatar
    Or dumb down their user base.
    They better get a move on this. . . RIM's user base keeps shrinking.
    06-12-11 05:27 PM
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