05-11-11 10:22 AM
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  1. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    Someone said above that RIM was going to be a viable alternative to Android and IOS. I believe this to be true because at the end of the day, Android is still insecure and the different "skins" make it bloated. IOS has one form factor. Plus people like to be different and so I believe that you have seen such a backlash in the tech industry lately with Apple and Google- People moving towards Google's vision of the cloud, but looking for other services that have the same vision. It's going to be a diverse tech world and that's a great thing.
    05-09-11 03:22 PM
  2. ADFXPro777's Avatar
    RIM's future will largely resemble their past, being a dominate player in the business to business communications needs, and a small player in the over all consumer electronics market unless RIM wishes to heavily attack it by building a media distribution network! Until they do that they will not be a major player, but they will remain profitable and growing

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I definitely agree. Most people always have a "doom and gloom" attitude with RIM, but you first need to remember that RIM's primary markets are businesses and governments, and due to this, they have been primarily responding to the demands of businesses and governments, not consumers. They have a large control on these markets and I do not see that changing for the worse anytime soon.
    05-09-11 03:39 PM
  3. avt123's Avatar
    Hmmm, unless you haven't noticed Rim is still at number two. Look at Palm's and WP7 marketshare

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    webOS is very nice. Unfortunately, the hardware is has been placed on has been ****. The majority of the complaints you hear about webOS devices is not about the OS itself, but the device (hardware). Now that HP has control, I expect to see webOS market share to rise. Not dramatically, but it will rise.

    Also, are you really throwing WP7 into the mix? The damn OS just came out about half a year ago.
    05-09-11 05:43 PM
  4. sleepngbear's Avatar
    There is zero reason to be swept completely by a newcomer in a year and a half when you compete in all the same markets. It means one thing and that is somewhere your product is lacking severely.
    I don't agree that RIM got swept by a newcomer. Before the iPhone, smart phones were primarily for business users, and those were RIM's target audience. Then Apple came along with the smart phone for everybody, which basically changed the game and turned the whole market upside down.

    It's like Company A produces a widget that they market to plumbers. They're the only ones who make it, and they own the market. Then Company B comes along and says hey, with a little tweaking, everybody with a house and running water can use that widget, not just plumbers. Company A says we know plumbers, and nobody else will want to buy that widget. But Company B was right, and all of a sudden the market that used to be just plumbers -- the market that Company A used to own -- is now a market of everybody that Company B is going to run away with. That's what iPhone did to the smart phone market.

    The problem just got compounded when Android hit the scene with a scatter-gun approach by partnering with several device manufacturers and multiple form factors that are causing headaches for both RIM and Apple.

    It's not the first time Apple changed the game -- iPod was not the first portable digital music player, but you'd never know that today. It just happens that the smart phone market is growing exponentially faster than any other tech right now, which is why there was room for Android to come in and capitalize on the growth that Apple started.

    RIM's problems are two-fold. First, their focus has always been business and enterprise users. They've been entrenched in that model and mindset, which makes it difficult to shift focus to consumers -- increasingly so to do that without losing focus on their enterprise bread-and-butter customers. But their really big sin was refusing to see the consumer market potential, even when there were rumors that Apple had it in its crosshairs. It would have been difficult enough for them to react and adjust even if they did recognize the changing trend early on. But they were slow to even recognize that they had to shift gears, and they're paying the price for that now.

    But the market is still growing and expanding, and RIM as a company is still in a very solid position. They'll never own the smart phone market like they once did, but it's definitely not too late for them to remain a viable competitor and retain a significant market share.
    05-09-11 05:48 PM
  5. Rooster99's Avatar
    It's the scale of the market, one single company couldn't possibly cater for the whole marketshare especially the way it's growing. And probably wouldn't be allowed to.
    Can one single car manufacturer cater for the whole world? Can any computer manufacturer? Some might win a few percentages, some might lose but they're all just so big it doesn't matter.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Not saying you want 100% market share. In fact you always want a few competitors. But to say market share doesn't matter, and in particular to blithely dismiss a negative trend in market share is, is ridiculous. Sorry, but it is.

    - R.
    05-09-11 06:15 PM
  6. Rooster99's Avatar
    I don't agree that RIM got swept by a newcomer. Before the iPhone, smart phones were primarily for business users, and those were RIM's target audience. Then Apple came along with the smart phone for everybody, which basically changed the game and turned the whole market upside down. ...
    Does anyone else see the blatant contradiction here? What was Apple but a newcomer? What did Apple do but sweep the feet out from under everyone?

    Am I missing something???

    - R.
    howarmat and Machzy like this.
    05-09-11 06:19 PM
  7. dkingsf's Avatar
    Lol, you must be missing the news, PB updates have happened fast already. It now has BBM as well as native Email/Pim/Videochat and an Android app player

    Bold 9900 doa and useless next year? Really?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Those were announced as "coming soon" at BBW. I haven't seen them yet. BBM is available as a bridge app from the BB, but not native yet. Still haven't seen email/PIM/video chat on app world. Did I miss it?
    05-09-11 06:29 PM
  8. bmservice's Avatar
    I think RIM should focus more on developing area.
    05-09-11 07:20 PM
  9. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Does anyone else see the blatant contradiction here? What was Apple but a newcomer? What did Apple do but sweep the feet out from under everyone?

    Am I missing something???

    - R.
    You'd be correct if Apple had come in and trounced RIM in the enterprise smart phone market, but that isn't how it went. Apple changed the market, they changed the game by making a similar product appealing to many more consumers, effectively making the whole market many times bigger than it was when BlackBerry was pretty much the only game in town. If you can't see the difference between the two, well, I don't know what else to say.
    05-09-11 07:46 PM
  10. Rooster99's Avatar
    You'd be correct if Apple had come in and trounced RIM in the enterprise smart phone market, but that isn't how it went. Apple changed the market, they changed the game by making a similar product appealing to many more consumers, effectively making the whole market many times bigger than it was when BlackBerry was pretty much the only game in town. If you can't see the difference between the two, well, I don't know what else to say.
    I think you're arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, my friend. Smartphone market = smartphone market, and Apple is kicking RIM's ****.

    - R.
    05-09-11 08:02 PM
  11. sleepngbear's Avatar
    I think you're arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, my friend. Smartphone market = smartphone market, and Apple is kicking RIM's ****.

    - R.
    Well that's where we disagree. The smart phone market today is not what it was four years ago. RIM made it what it was; Apple made it what it is. And pretty soon Android will be eating Apple's lunch. RIM has some catching up to do. So what.

    Class dismissed.
    05-09-11 08:49 PM
  12. dooodads's Avatar
    Well that's where we disagree. The smart phone market today is not what it was four years ago. RIM made it what it was; Apple made it what it is. And pretty soon Android will be eating Apple's lunch. RIM has some catching up to do. So what.

    Class dismissed.
    You know what's terribly sad. I can genuinely picture the CEOs at RIM saying these exact same words verbatim to their staff....which would explain a lot.
    Machzy likes this.
    05-09-11 08:51 PM
  13. Jerryg50's Avatar
    Regardless how the data is being interpreted this is still bad news for RIM - marketshare declining - whether it's handheld shipments or OS marketshare are both bad for business. That's all the article is trying to say and that's why I posted it.

    Either way, like mentioned already - the next 6-12 months are going to be critical for RIM's success I believe. They have the new/doa devices coming out this year (I say that because QNX will make them useless by next year), PB updates need to happen fast & need to be big changes, etc. etc.

    I really do hope RIM turns it around - granted I've only been a BB user for about 3 years, but I'd still love to see them succeed.
    Can you give some credable references to back up your statement?

    RIM has a particular type of market for their product. It is a business type product with very strong attributes in its design for business applications. It is a very reliable high technology product and delivers very good quality in its performance. The big plus with the RIM product is their security.

    People who buy Blackberry phones are usually a partular type that want a very serous type of phone. It is admitted that the RIM phones don't have the extended resolution and fluidity that many of the others have. But, the RIM has terrific support, high security, and easy usability.

    If you look at governments, the financial institutions, and high end industries they use the RIM products. There is very good reason for this.

    As for myself, just for interest I tried some of the other types of smart phones for a number of weeks at a time. I ended up back with the Blackberry. At this point I would not change from them.


    Jerry G.
    05-09-11 09:23 PM
  14. euro2low's Avatar
    bope. i don't care. i'll keep using my BB until the company A) goes under B) gets bought out or C) I get paid lots and lots of money to switch
    05-09-11 09:34 PM
  15. sleepngbear's Avatar
    i'll keep using my BB until the company A) goes under B) gets bought out or C) I get paid lots and lots of money to switch
    Now that sounds like a plan.
    05-09-11 10:21 PM
  16. mustangv8's Avatar
    Rimm down again today in an upmarket.

    Gl shorts.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-10-11 01:40 AM
  17. Machzy's Avatar
    Can you give some credable references to back up your statement?

    RIM has a particular type of market for their product. It is a business type product with very strong attributes in its design for business applications. It is a very reliable high technology product and delivers very good quality in its performance. The big plus with the RIM product is their security.

    People who buy Blackberry phones are usually a partular type that want a very serous type of phone. It is admitted that the RIM phones don't have the extended resolution and fluidity that many of the others have. But, the RIM has terrific support, high security, and easy usability.

    If you look at governments, the financial institutions, and high end industries they use the RIM products. There is very good reason for this.

    As for myself, just for interest I tried some of the other types of smart phones for a number of weeks at a time. I ended up back with the Blackberry. At this point I would not change from them.


    Jerry G.
    Sure thing - here's my source: Google

    Seriously though, not to be a **** - but you can easily find any of that information and if you follow tech blogs they can back up what I said.

    As for your 'target audience' for BB - I think that's overly cliched. Not to say that RIM isn't about the Enterprise Market - but I think they're trying to get 50/50 of the pie now. A few years ago, sure - I'd agree that RIM was all about business. But they're not all about business now if they're pushing media, games, apps, etc.

    As for governments, etc. implementing BB's - while this is also true, it doesn't change the fact that there are some businesses that are moving away from BES and getting iPhones or Androids. I work in the finance industry and one of our biggest clients (national) has gave up all their BB's and traded them for iPhones. When big companies start doing things, then it should be a red flag to RIM that they need to adapt to the changing marketplace. Activesync, etc.
    05-10-11 06:35 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Sure thing - here's my source: Google

    Seriously though, not to be a **** - but you can easily find any of that information and if you follow tech blogs they can back up what I said.

    As for your 'target audience' for BB - I think that's overly cliched. Not to say that RIM isn't about the Enterprise Market - but I think they're trying to get 50/50 of the pie now. A few years ago, sure - I'd agree that RIM was all about business. But they're not all about business now if they're pushing media, games, apps, etc.

    As for governments, etc. implementing BB's - while this is also true, it doesn't change the fact that there are some businesses that are moving away from BES and getting iPhones or Androids. I work in the finance industry and one of our biggest clients (national) has gave up all their BB's and traded them for iPhones. When big companies start doing things, then it should be a red flag to RIM that they need to adapt to the changing marketplace. Activesync, etc.
    Well, according to Kevin in their latest podcast, 98% of the top 1000 companies in the world are using BES. What does that tell you?
    And the ones moving away from BES are more likely doing it to allow employees to bring their own phones to work instead of the company supplying them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-10-11 07:10 AM
  19. infamyx's Avatar
    Well, according to Kevin in their latest podcast, 98% of the top 1000 companies in the world are using BES. What does that tell you?
    And the ones moving away from BES are more likely doing it to allow employees to bring their own phones to work instead of the company supplying them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    How many of those 98% are BES only? I bet that number drops dramatically, and RIM knows it. Employees dont want to use a BlackBerry for the work place anymore, not when there are better devices on the market. Story after story continues to support this statement as well.

    RIM wont have a strangehold on the enterprise market for much longer, especially as the smartphone OS has expanded greatly recently compared to RIM being the only game in town for years.

    It was smart of RIM to buy Ubitexx and to start offering BES for iPhone and Android, and soon WP7 im sure. Those CALs and servers add up, and if they can offer things like BlackBerry Balance but at a premium for non-BB devices they could still make a killing.
    05-10-11 08:32 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    How many of those 98% are BES only? I bet that number drops dramatically, and RIM knows it. Employees dont want to use a BlackBerry for the work place anymore, not when there are better devices on the market. Story after story continues to support this statement as well.

    RIM wont have a strangehold on the enterprise market for much longer, especially as the smartphone OS has expanded greatly recently compared to RIM being the only game in town for years.

    It was smart of RIM to buy Ubitexx and to start offering BES for iPhone and Android, and soon WP7 im sure. Those CALs and servers add up, and if they can offer things like BlackBerry Balance but at a premium for non-BB devices they could still make a killing.
    Employees use what their employer gives them or their own phone.
    05-10-11 08:46 AM
  21. howarmat's Avatar
    many employers are letting the employee buy the phone and they just pay the bill. With exchange support on most other devices they can access everything they need still (cal, contacts, email) similar to BES
    05-10-11 08:59 AM
  22. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Ok guys, let's imagine this... tomorrow every company in the world announced they will be removing every BlackBerry from their services and swapping to iPhone, Android, and WP7. And all carriers said because the current BBs aren't good enough they are removing BIS support completely. How would RIM react to that?
    05-10-11 09:06 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Ok guys, let's imagine this... tomorrow every company in the world announced they will be removing every BlackBerry from their services and swapping to iPhone, Android, and WP7. And all carriers said because the current BBs aren't good enough they are removing BIS support completely. How would RIM react to that?
    And if pigs would fly how would the farmers react to that lol?

    Right now Rim is a company too big to fail, too many governments/police forces etc etc rely on them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-10-11 09:36 AM
  24. i7guy's Avatar
    many employers are letting the employee buy the phone and they just pay the bill. With exchange support on most other devices they can access everything they need still (cal, contacts, email) similar to BES
    I agree those employers where security is not paramount are adopting a byop attitude. But the typical bes stronghold is not quite letting all comers in yet.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-10-11 11:05 AM
  25. macten52's Avatar
    No matter which way you slice it, Android is going to be the #2 installed US smartphone OS by year-end next to RIM. iOS will continue to be #1 in tablets and # 1 in MP3 players, Android's growth in smartphones can't be beat. It's RIM's game to lose.
    The main thing to remember is.....Google just like MS of old intends to spread thier monopoly. They "give away" thier operating system to manufactures where RIM and of Apple won't. Who do you think will win? Manufactures make a lot more profit on their handsets when they don't have to pay for the OS. Apple has its marekting mystique keeping it going but it is pretty tough for RIM to make a product that competes well with "free".
    05-10-11 11:38 AM
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