05-11-11 11:22 AM
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  1. Machzy's Avatar
    05-08-11 11:11 PM
  2. trsbbs's Avatar
    Whats the numbers when you compare RIM to Samsung, then againt HTC, then against Motorola.

    Seems a little unfair to compare a single company against several companies running the same OS. Apples vs oranges?

    Tim
    05-09-11 01:29 AM
  3. s.ben's Avatar
    Whats the numbers when you compare RIM to Samsung, then againt HTC, then against Motorola.

    Seems a little unfair to compare a single company against several companies running the same OS. Apples vs oranges?

    Tim
    Im not sure were debating the inequities of producing proprietary hardware/software vs. openly available software alone. Google is simply duplicating what Microsoft did in the 80s with apparently a similar outcome, or at lease it beginning to look that way.

    No matter how you slice it, RIM continues to loose US market share and thats all Machzy is saying.
    Machzy likes this.
    05-09-11 02:41 AM
  4. amyswan's Avatar
    No matter which way you slice it, Android is going to be the #2 installed US smartphone OS by year-end next to RIM. iOS will continue to be #1 in tablets and # 1 in MP3 players, Android's growth in smartphones can't be beat. It's RIM's game to lose.
    05-09-11 03:04 AM
  5. trsbbs's Avatar
    No matter how you slice it, RIM continues to loose US market share and thats all Machzy is saying.
    That is not correct. It does matter how you slice it.

    If you were to compare the sales of RIM phones
    against other phone makers (one on one) the numbers aren't as bad.
    RIM still sold more phones this year then last year.

    I will agree that RIM needs to pull off this turn around, no debate on that.

    But to compare RIM against all the makers of phones using the Driod
    operating system combined is a little off.

    That would like comparing only Ford cars against all the machines using a Chevy engine.

    Again, not debating the loss of some market share, but just pointing something out.

    Tim
    Jerryg50 likes this.
    05-09-11 04:23 AM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    That's just OS marketshare, not manufacturers marketshare. "Google" doesn't make any smartphones. Seems to me that Rim is still a pretty big player in US, still in front of Apple without any new devices for a while. If anything that looks good for Rim.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Jerryg50 likes this.
    05-09-11 04:40 AM
  7. hootyhoo's Avatar
    If you read the rest of the article, it states that Samsung, lg, and Motorola hold the top three spots for devices sold. And yes I am aware that those manufacturers also sell feature and dumb phones.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-09-11 05:56 AM
  8. Machzy's Avatar
    Regardless how the data is being interpreted this is still bad news for RIM - marketshare declining - whether it's handheld shipments or OS marketshare are both bad for business. That's all the article is trying to say and that's why I posted it.

    Either way, like mentioned already - the next 6-12 months are going to be critical for RIM's success I believe. They have the new/doa devices coming out this year (I say that because QNX will make them useless by next year), PB updates need to happen fast & need to be big changes, etc. etc.

    I really do hope RIM turns it around - granted I've only been a BB user for about 3 years, but I'd still love to see them succeed.
    05-09-11 07:41 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Regardless how the data is being interpreted this is still bad news for RIM - marketshare declining - whether it's handheld shipments or OS marketshare are both bad for business. That's all the article is trying to say and that's why I posted it.

    Either way, like mentioned already - the next 6-12 months are going to be critical for RIM's success I believe. They have the new/doa devices coming out this year (I say that because QNX will make them useless by next year), PB updates need to happen fast & need to be big changes, etc. etc.

    I really do hope RIM turns it around - granted I've only been a BB user for about 3 years, but I'd still love to see them succeed.
    Lol, you must be missing the news, PB updates have happened fast already. It now has BBM as well as native Email/Pim/Videochat and an Android app player

    Bold 9900 doa and useless next year? Really?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-09-11 08:16 AM
  10. i7guy's Avatar
    One could change the title of the article and substitute different statistics as follows:

    "Comscore report finds widening Windows lead in US computer market, largely at Apples expense"

    One cannot compete against the Micrososoft model, which is virtually give away the O/S. Which is why the relevant question is how is RIM doing?
    05-09-11 08:23 AM
  11. howarmat's Avatar
    Lol, you must be missing the news, PB updates have happened fast already. It now has BBM as well as native Email/Pim/Videochat and an Android app player

    Bold 9900 doa and useless next year? Really?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    umm no it doesnt...those are "coming later" still
    Machzy and OnTopic like this.
    05-09-11 10:20 AM
  12. Machzy's Avatar
    @belfastdispatcher

    Just because they demo'd them at BBWorld doesn't mean that they have been released to the general public. Please don't get people confused.

    Also - if OS7 is being released this summer - but QNX for BB is being released next year - then yes, my opinion of the 99xx handhelds being useless is still what I think. UNLESS - RIM makes it so that OS7 is upgradeable to QNX. OS6 & 7 are just transitional OS'es until QNX is out - until then, these are short term solutions for RIM to just give something to the public while we wait.

    Do you actually think that 7 will be supported and will have further development after QNX is released?
    Last edited by Machzy; 05-09-11 at 11:23 AM.
    05-09-11 11:14 AM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Ok, my mistake but BBM is released now as is videochat as well as Email apps, not official but ready to use for whoever wants them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-09-11 11:20 AM
  14. howarmat's Avatar
    i dont think the email apps have been approved yet either actually. I know we are still waiting on one. its been "waiting to be approved" for 20 days now
    05-09-11 11:57 AM
  15. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Regardless how the data is being interpreted this is still bad news for RIM - marketshare declining - whether it's handheld shipments or OS marketshare are both bad for business. That's all the article is trying to say and that's why I posted it.

    Either way, like mentioned already - the next 6-12 months are going to be critical for RIM's success I believe. They have the new/doa devices coming out this year (I say that because QNX will make them useless by next year), PB updates need to happen fast & need to be big changes, etc. etc.

    I really do hope RIM turns it around - granted I've only been a BB user for about 3 years, but I'd still love to see them succeed.
    First off, this is old news ... we are all painfully aware that RIM has been bleeding market share for over a year, so why rehash it. I'm not even going to get into the relevance of market share, especially between two such distinctly different entities as Google and RIM, despite how the Wall Street lemmings react to it. As i7guy says, the real relevance lies in how the company itself is doing. RIM has no debt, they continue selling more devices and increasing profits by double-digits year-over-year, and they're acquiring technologies that are going to help to solidify their position for the future, which contrary to popular belief, actually goes beyond the end of the current fiscal quarter. That is what people need to be focusing on. I see nonstop whining about market share and old technology and speculation about RIM going down the toilet; how about some speculation as to what QNX, TAT, ubitexx, or the half-dozen other acquisitions will bring to the table? Wouldn't that be positively enlightening for a change.

    Second - I'm really, really tired of hearing that the new devices due out this year are already DOA/EOL/useless/whatever. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and it's repeated ad nauseum all over this board. By that logic, almost every phone that's introduced by every company is DOA, because they're all working on their next big things long before the current big things are released. To wit: should Nokia just quit making new Symbian phones now because they've announced a partnership with Microsoft, even though WP phones from Nokia are about two years away? Are these new OS7 phones all of a sudden going to stop working when the first QNX phones drop? Will the features and functionality they are delivered with going to be any less functional? And what is RIM supposed to do between now and when QNX handhelds are ready? New platform development takes time, and users are much more heavily dependent on their handhelds than their tablets, so RIM cannot afford to rush those devices to market prematurely as they did with the PlayBook. They can allocate all the resources they want to it, but as the saying goes, nine women can't make a baby in a month. And throwing more OS updates at existing hardware isn't going to cut it. So exactly what do people propose they do?
    05-09-11 12:13 PM
  16. anon1727506's Avatar
    To get the real picture you need to go back about four years ago... see where RIM was and compare that to where they are today in market-share.

    I think that RIM would probably be happy with just 27%, if they could hold there. But trends are not showing that to be the case. Possible the new device on OS7 will help, but I doubt it. From what I have seen of QNX I think it could turn RIM around IF they could release devices today, and have developer start working on new apps (or converting Android Apps), and they came up with a centralized content delivery system.

    But that isn't happening, and if the OS7 devices are not coming unit the 3rd or 4th quarter of this year... when do you think the QNX devices are coming? And how long before the majority of BB device are switched over to QNX - 2 or 3 years?

    Maybe if Apple and Google, don't make any innovative strides in the next couple of years RIM will have a chance to return to the glory of being the #1 Smartphone in the WORLD.... but I wouldn't bet on it.
    Rooster99 likes this.
    05-09-11 12:28 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    To get the real picture you need to go back about four years ago... see where RIM was and compare that to where they are today in market-share.

    I think that RIM would probably be happy with just 27%, if they could hold there. But trends are not showing that to be the case. Possible the new device on OS7 will help, but I doubt it. From what I have seen of QNX I think it could turn RIM around IF they could release devices today, and have developer start working on new apps (or converting Android Apps), and they came up with a centralized content delivery system.

    But that isn't happening, and if the OS7 devices are not coming unit the 3rd or 4th quarter of this year... when do you think the QNX devices are coming? And how long before the majority of BB device are switched over to QNX - 2 or 3 years?

    Maybe if Apple and Google, don't make any innovative strides in the next couple of years RIM will have a chance to return to the glory of being the #1 Smartphone in the WORLD.... but I wouldn't bet on it.

    Actually if you go back 4 years ago you'd find out just how much a bigger company Rim is now and how many more countries they cover now. Sure they lost market share but the Market got so big there's no way one company can dominate it and they still have a healthy slice of it. Marketshare is irrelevant when the market itself is so big.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-09-11 12:54 PM
  18. Rooster99's Avatar
    ... Marketshare is irrelevant when the market itself is so big.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Ummm ... ok. Sure.

    Glad you're not on my team. Anybody in my company talks like that and we're gonna have a heart-to-heart. And there's no way my investment $ would go to any firm where that kind of talk was allowed.

    Bottom line is that is NOT an acceptable attitude in business.

    - R.
    boldman4 likes this.
    05-09-11 01:08 PM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Ummm ... ok. Sure.

    Glad you're not on my team. Anybody in my company talks like that and we're gonna have a heart-to-heart. And there's no way my investment $ would go to any firm where that kind of talk was allowed.

    Bottom line is that is NOT an acceptable attitude in business.

    - R.
    It's the scale of the market, one single company couldn't possibly cater for the whole marketshare especially the way it's growing. And probably wouldn't be allowed to.
    Can one single car manufacturer cater for the whole world? Can any computer manufacturer? Some might win a few percentages, some might lose but they're all just so big it doesn't matter.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-09-11 01:19 PM
  20. anon1727506's Avatar
    05-09-11 01:28 PM
  21. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I believe in RIM, but I very much believe RIM will never recaputer a large Market share and that Android will be the largest player in the US market until it bloats it's self and opens the doors for a new competitor,

    RIM is not doomed how ever, as I greatly believe they will stop the bleeding and start to regain customers, just not at the rate of customer growth, RIM. WILL see 100,000,000 subscribers in 4 to 5 years IMO, which will be great for RIM, Apple managed to remain a viable alternative for companies to Microsoft on the PC front. RIM will be that, to Android on the mobile front. I feel Apple is rounding the top of their dominance, unless they find a new product to offer soon, since the Android Market place will catch up to the Apple one, the pricing will be more favourable on Android, and the choices more vast, someone just needs to release an Android Run consumer electronics device at the sub $149. With amazons music market place.

    RIM's future will largely resemble their past, being a dominate player in the business to business communications needs, and a small player in the over all consumer electronics market unless RIM wishes to heavily attack it by building a media distribution network! Until they do that they will not be a major player, but they will remain profitable and growing

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Telus Toronto likes this.
    05-09-11 01:41 PM
  22. infamyx's Avatar
    It's the scale of the market, one single company couldn't possibly cater for the whole marketshare especially the way it's growing. And probably wouldn't be allowed to.
    Can one single car manufacturer cater for the whole world? Can any computer manufacturer? Some might win a few percentages, some might lose but they're all just so big it doesn't matter.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    RIM had a device for almost every segment of the smartphone industry at it's peak. Pearls and Curves were moving for the cheap and prepaid segment, Bolds and Storms were taking the high end market. RIM had a form factor for every segment other than a slider which it recently just came out with the Torch.

    Apple caters to one segment and for the longest on one sole carrier and is outselling RIM overall by a mile. Numerous Android devices are competing where RIM is in almost every form factor, on every carrier, and they are serving up a serious beat down.

    If RIM hadn't become so complacent, and actually put out good products with good software, they'd still be running with the lionshare of the market. RIM like Nokia and MS and Palm got complacent and were subsequently destroyed.

    There is zero reason to be swept completely by a newcomer in a year and a half when you compete in all the same markets. It means one thing and that is somewhere your product is lacking severely.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    05-09-11 01:45 PM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    A picture is worth a thousand words and that pretty much sums it up.
    Hmmm, unless you haven't noticed Rim is still at number two. Look at Palm's and WP7 marketshare

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-09-11 03:05 PM
  24. jd914's Avatar
    If RIM hadn't become so complacent, and actually put out good products with good software, they'd still be running with the lionshare of the market. RIM like Nokia and MS and Palm got complacent and were subsequently destroyed.
    Well said. Complacency is RIM's biggest downfall. Think about it, the Torch and the Bold 9650 & 9700 are the best devices available to any BB user? That's shameful.

    There is zero reason to be swept completely by a newcomer in a year and a half when you compete in all the same markets. It means one thing and that is somewhere your product is lacking severely.
    They are lacking in aggressive innovation, Example: The Blackberry Touch should have been released last year instead of the Torch. The Blackberry Touch is scheduled for obsolescence once it hits the shelves. Even hardcore BB users are talking of holding off getting a BBOS 7 device for the hope that RIM released a QNX device soon. What does that say if your fan base aren't looking forward to the release of your next "flagship" device?
    Last edited by JD914; 05-09-11 at 03:11 PM.
    05-09-11 03:08 PM
  25. dooodads's Avatar
    I'd say this article fairly sums up RIMs problems for the most part: BlackBerry World: Now Wait for Last Year | This is my next...

    Everyone should give it a once over.
    05-09-11 03:34 PM
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