07-04-11 05:16 PM
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  1. kbz1960's Avatar
    Does Canada have a retaliation act? Not sure the said employees situation would apply even if they did.
    07-01-11 09:38 AM
  2. Majestic Lion's Avatar
    My immediate reaction to reading the initial post without reading the following comments:

    So a "senior exec" writes this and most conveniently includes an hour-long Apple vid to show RIM what they should be aiming for...and BGR - known Apple advocates - dutifully disseminate it to the rampaging hordes. Quelle surprise.


    "Canadians are too nice" was an especially nice touch.
    07-01-11 11:42 AM
  3. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Does Canada have a retaliation act? Not sure the said employees situation would apply even if they did.
    I am not aware of Canadian labor relations laws at all. However, even in the US, that type of law would not apply. Nothing in the letter implies illegal practices by management, just incompetent business practices. One would be protected if he/she reported illegal practices, but he/she would not be protected if he/she said that the managers of the company were stupid.
    07-01-11 11:47 AM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    I am not aware of Canadian labor relations laws at all. However, even in the US, that type of law would not apply. Nothing in the letter implies illegal practices by management, just incompetent business practices. One would be protected if he/she reported illegal practices, but he/she would not be protected if he/she said that the managers of the company were stupid.
    if the govts took action on everyone that had incompetent business practices there would be no businesses lol
    grover5 likes this.
    07-01-11 11:50 AM
  5. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    if the govts took action on everyone that had incompetent business practices there would be no businesses lol
    There would be no government if all incompetent business practices were eliminated. The governments are the worst offenders there, regardless of country and political affiliation.
    howarmat likes this.
    07-01-11 11:53 AM
  6. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    Bogus letter from a bogus website. Theatre of the absurd.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-01-11 12:43 PM
  7. T
    When my computer has been sitting on the table, idling with the screen off, and I touch the mouse, and the screen lights up, it will usually say something like 5 hours left even though the battery is really down to 50%. In a few minutes, the real time left (~2 hours) will be displayed. Could that be what's going on here with these readings?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-01-11 01:01 PM
  8. kelmart's Avatar
    i won't bother with commenting of the content of this letter. It's contents are not what i'm concerned about. Let's all assume it is actually written by a current RIM employee for a moment . The motives of the author aside this letter does nothing to further the progress of RIM. in reality the author (assuming for the time being he/she is employed by RIM) has shown either great foolishness or worse. in any case the author should have identified him or herself and resigned .

    i say this not because RIM may or may not have been injured but that airing your employers 'dirty laundry' in public is a major breach of ethics and almost certainly the employee agreement the author must have signed on his or her first day.

    Every company that is large enough to have an HR department also has a confidential employee talk back program. i do not work for RIM but as i have been around the block a few times i am quite certain that this person's concerns could have been aired and addressed without 'embarrassing' the firm in question.

    in my opinion the author is one of the following, a liar, a coward, a disgruntled ex-RIM employee or a disgruntled current RIM employee frustrated with lack of progress in his or her career. in any case the opinions of this person should be viewed in this light and given the same respect that this letter has shown a reputable firm....none.

    To the author i would ask that you step forward and move to another job as is clearly the best for you. By all means voice your views they'd be better served if you had not spoken behind a veil.
    eprklims likes this.
    07-01-11 02:06 PM
  9. MrPotatoHead's Avatar
    To: A RIM Employee

    Get a grip, your organisation is not unique, most large companies fit in this mold.

    I work for a large charity and if I just replaced RIM with our IT department (i work in) there would be very little editing to do.

    Most companies are broken, and the video is right, most people have forgotten or lost track of the 'why'.

    I have been using RIM / Blackberrys since they came to the UK about 12 years ago. Gone through a number of devices and at the moment using a 9700 (work) and 9800 (personal).

    Don't get me wrong, I love BlackBerry devices, it is the device you can give to your mum and she can use it. Though I do think they missed a trick with the new Folio (Playbook) by not doing 3G.

    All things come and go - let it go.

    Look at all the phones that have been fantastic and now gone:
    - Nokia, sold it's soul to produce a Windows Mobile phone
    - Palm, before WebOS
    Last edited by MrPotatoHead; 07-01-11 at 02:20 PM.
    07-01-11 02:14 PM
  10. eprklims's Avatar
    Hi all
    I've kept out of this but something keeps telling me that I should write in because I'm disturbed by the fact that these letters are getting so much weight attached to them.
    I worked for RIM for 8 years. I was one of the first 200 employees, and I left because I wanted to pursue another line of work. It was extremely hard leaving such an awesome company with a great group of employees. I look back fondly on my time there as I was given unbelievable learning opportunities and advancements.
    Firstly, I worked and interacted directly with both Mike and Jim on a weekly basis (at minimum) - and many times one-on-one. They are extremely intelligent people and I am sick of people saying otherwise. They were always willing to listen, but often you could see they were 6-8 moves ahead of anyone else in the game and I trusted, and still trust them, implicitly. They were right way more often than they were wrong. Recently they executed on a strategy, and missed the mark, but I still fully believe they are the best people for the job. I can think of no one else that would be able to execute on their vision better, especially now rallying around the new QNX OS. They live, and breathe RIM and the money has and always will be secondary for them. That's not to say they are perfect - no one is, and it's frustrating seeing that RIM is always being bashed, even when they've done well (especially by Canadian press). Take a look at the stock and news analysis and you will see an interesting pattern - the stock direction is typically inverse to what would be expected based on the news.
    RIM is not dead. Far from it. QNX and their new products are going to propel them further than anyone is expecting right now and I will be very happy to see my friends execute when everyone else has counted them out.
    RIM is not perfect. No company is. The first letter I believe bothers me the most, especially if they didn't try to discuss this first within RIM. By my reading of it, it seems that they didn't. If you're so unhappy, try to fix it internally, and if you can't, leave. Don't air dirty laundry that affects all your colleagues and will likely bring nothing to the table. It sickens me that this individual took this road, as I was not an executive, but when I had an opinion I was not scared of any management and told them. More people should act like this and maybe RIM wouldn't have the execution issues they've had of late. To me this only shows me RIM has done a poor job at hiring - because this individual is clearly not indicative of what I saw there or what I'm hearing from my friends still there. The other letters are from a whiny person that clearly wasn't qualified and is upset at the world, and the last one is someone that also should have had the cojones to stand up or get out.
    There are obvious challenges still at RIM:
    1) The PlayBook still is very much a work in progress as everyone knows, but I have used both the ipad and the PlayBook and to me, other than depth of apps, I feel the PlayBook has the brightest future.
    2) The stock is in the dumps and app developers are either sitting on the fence or defecting to make the news... which is certainly stressful for the average employee.
    3) They are struggling to find the right message with their marketing - and I think they'll find it soon - so that consumers see that what RIM is really trying to do is help them make their lives easier, and richer.
    4) The OS7 phones, in my opinion, should have been delayed and QNX should have been put on them, but I know the pressures of the market require phones every year which is a shame.

    I still communicate with tonnes of my friends at RIM, many who hold senior positions and no one is complaining about internal stuff - they're only complaining about the negativity in the press. To my peeps at RIM, keep your head down now and work to make RIM come through this stronger - I know you can.
    07-01-11 02:36 PM
  11. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    To: A RIM Employee

    Get a grip, your organisation is not unique, most large companies fit in this mold.

    I work for a large charity and if I just replaced RIM with our IT department (i work in) there would be very little editing to do.

    Most companies are broken, and the video is right, most people have forgotten or lost track of the 'why'.

    I have been using RIM / Blackberrys since they came to the UK about 12 years ago. Gone through a number of devices and at the moment using a 9700 (work) and 9800 (personal).

    Don't get me wrong, I love BlackBerry devices, it is the device you can give to your mum and she can use it. Though I do think they missed a trick with the new Folio (Playbook) by not doing 3G.

    All things come and go - let it go.

    Look at all the phones that have been fantastic and now gone:
    - Nokia, sold it's soul to produce a Windows Mobile phone
    - Palm, before WebOS
    Dislike. This company is a point of pride to Canadians and many Canadians rely on it for a job. There is an emotional tie to the company, so... it doesn't matter to them that Nokia and Palm failed because they are trying to avoid becoming them.

    They also feel, like many do, that RIM is in a better position than both. The only thing lacking is management.
    07-01-11 02:37 PM
  12. TRlPPlN's Avatar
    it's unfortunate for RIM to be in this digital age were the media (or anyone) can easily write about all the negative things happening to a company and spread like wildfire which equates to a wild following of people that will just agree to it.

    too bad the "internet" wasn't around when Apple was at their mediocre stage before the "iProducts". I wonder if they would've received the same bashing as RIM is getting now.
    07-01-11 07:07 PM
  13. sosumi11's Avatar
    1) The PlayBook still is very much a work in progress as everyone knows, but I have used both the ipad and the PlayBook and to me, other than depth of apps, I feel the PlayBook has the brightest future.
    The brightest future versus what? The iPad?

    This is not a War of Devices. It is a War of Ecosystems. Apple lost the First War of Ecosystems to the PC twenty years ago because Microsoft commoditized the hardware.

    1. People bought cheaper PC hardware.
    2. Developers ran to where the sales were.
    3. There were millions of programs available for Windows and thousands for the Mac. Mac-heads claimed for years that quality was better than quantity. Did it help?
    4. Nope. Apple was reduced to a niche company who only dominated the publishing and advertising industries (and for a short time, education). Thanks primarily to the development of scalable fonts with Adobe.

    It took Apple ten years to get to the Post-PC Era. It started with the iPod which evolved into the iPhone and now the iPad. The iPod won consumers with the software and when Apple made it available to run on Windows it dominated the MP3 player market so much that competition gave up. Even Microsoft conceded by killing the Zune.

    The Playbook is a just a reflex reaction to the iPad. (RIM's CEO's dissed the iPad when it was first announced, then reacted only after they heard the sales reports).

    3) They are struggling to find the right message with their marketing - and I think they'll find it soon - so that consumers see that what RIM is really trying to do is help them make their lives easier, and richer.
    Look at how much money Apple spent on advertising in the pre-iPod era. They spent gazillions of dollars and yet their market share never changed (about 3%, worldwide). From 1998 to 2003 Mac sales were frozen between 600 and 800 THOUSAND units per quarter. Today they are selling 4 MILLION Macs a quarter, plus 5 MILLION iPads, 18 MILLION iPhones and 10 MILLION iPods., According to Ad-Age, they are ranked ~#50 among the largest spenders of advertising. That's because the ads are not selling products. The products are selling themselves. The ads are only there for brand-building. How many life-style products do YOU buy because you saw a good ad?

    People watch/read ads ONLY if they are interested in the product. No one wanted a Mac because Windows was good enough (and that's what their friends and family had). It's also all about compatibility. And even tho you can't share iOS apps from one person to another, they can still download/buy the same apps.

    What message can RIM possibly send to potential customers without mentioning the word "ecosystem"?

    Thanks you for listening.
    Last edited by sosumi11; 07-01-11 at 11:20 PM.
    07-01-11 11:17 PM
  14. kevinnugent's Avatar
    And even tho you can't share iOS apps from one person to another, they can still download/buy the same apps.
    Agree 99.9% on everything you've said except for the above. I can share apps with anyone here in my house. e.g. Quick Tip: Sharing iPhone and iPad Apps On the Go — Apple News, Tips and Reviews
    07-01-11 11:25 PM
  15. tstrike34's Avatar
    RIM just needs to dig down deep and focus on a great phone. Once done, concentrate on solidfying its message and staying on it.

    CSAT is the lifeblood, time for it to acknowledge whats wrong and fix only what drives its customer experience.

    The guys need to get their stuff together and get back to producing.

    Anything else is simply uncivilized.
    07-02-11 12:52 AM
  16. ekafara's Avatar
    My immediate reaction to reading the initial post without reading the following comments:

    So a "senior exec" writes this and most conveniently includes an hour-long Apple vid to show RIM what they should be aiming for...and BGR - known Apple advocates - dutifully disseminate it to the rampaging hordes. Quelle surprise.



    "Canadians are too nice" was an especially nice touch.

    If you watch the video you will see what he was trying to get at. Even if you are not a fan of anything Apple you have to admit that Steve Jobs is a genius. I may not like a lot of things he says or does but he's smart and they should see the good things he does and use them on their own company.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-02-11 12:56 AM
  17. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    If I were RIM, I would spend a few hundred thousand dollars to hire a team of lawyers to sue BGR for malicious falsehood and defamation that is injurious to shareholders. My tact would be that the letter is a fraud, causing BGR to have to cough up the source of this letter. If BGR can't provide a name they will be in big trouble. I think BGR is going to be on the hot seat soon and they are going to wish they didn't publish that letter.
    07-02-11 02:13 AM
  18. katiepea's Avatar
    If I were RIM, I would spend a few hundred thousand dollars to hire a team of lawyers to sue BGR for malicious falsehood and defamation that is injurious to shareholders. My tact would be that the letter is a fraud, causing BGR to have to cough up the source of this letter. If BGR can't provide a name they will be in big trouble. I think BGR is going to be on the hot seat soon and they are going to wish they didn't publish that letter.
    If RIM thought the letters were fake they'd have already filed a defamation lawsuit, the lack of this is enough evidence for me

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-02-11 02:22 AM
  19. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    If RIM thought the letters were fake they'd have already filed a defamation lawsuit, the lack of this is enough evidence for me

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Well that's a thought. RIM knows who wrote the letter and knows it is true, so they might as well sweep it under the carpet.
    07-02-11 02:26 AM
  20. Skeevecr's Avatar
    If RIM thought the letters were fake they'd have already filed a defamation lawsuit, the lack of this is enough evidence for me
    The onus would be on them to prove they were fake which would be tough to do when the first one is sufficiently generic in its complaints that it could easily be real or written by an outsider.

    All the while they were suing it would be giving that much more attention to the letter and bgr which would be more than a little counter-productive since even if at the end of any court case they won you would still have a bunch of people happy to assume it was real and others who would assume it was a fake so nothing would have really changed except they had kept the letter in the news for a much longer time.
    07-02-11 08:11 AM
  21. eprklims's Avatar
    Sosumi, thanks for your reply.
    You bring up some interesting points. I must respectfully disagree though. There's a lot of room for opinion here as nothing is set in stone, and we'll all hopefully get to see this play out over the next few years and then we can decide who was more 'right'...

    I believe the next phase of computing, is a post-app era, where contextualized content is the most important part. I think the only reason 'apps' are relevant is they are a delivery mechanism for contextualized content now because the web hasn't evolved enough to be ready without apps. I think the race to relevance in terms of #'s of apps is a short wave, and in a year to two we will be looking at the numbers of apps and laughing that it was ever an important metric. As programs and content move more to a cloud platform, having a view into that content and having it contextualized will be king in my mind.

    The whole app metric is superfluous once a device gets 'good' apps at a breadth that will satisfy the user. I don't need 200 VNC apps. I need one good one. It's classic breadth vs depth. There is no way I would have the time to download and try out the other 199 (and multiply that by # of categories, etc)... It becomes irrelevant really quickly when the device has the capabilities to serve content in a way that is important and relevant for the end user. The tech geek in my mind looks to Star Trek and we don't see Kirk or Picard downloading an 'app for that'... We see them wanting to do something, and they do it, and the system abstracts that for them. (Ok, that was really geeky, but I couldn't think of a better example)

    I look at Apple as AOL back in the 80s/90s. They are providing a walled-garden system that is doing a great job of bringing people into the post-computing era, but pretty soon people are going to be upset that they're stuck using their content in only the ways that Apple prescribes. This is the same as what happened to AOL when they didn't evolve to let people do things the way they wanted. When I used to buy a physical book at Chapters I didn't expect that I'd have to carry it around with a sleeve around it that made me read it in a particular way... yet, that is what Apple is providing. Full disclosure, I bought an ipad last year when I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I still use it, occassionally, but the only reason it's kicking around is I like the bigger size for some things. I much prefer my PlayBook, and that's not just because my friends made it. When (if) the PlayBook comes out bigger, I'll get that too, and likely sell the ipad. I find that I download apps on it and use them once, never to be used again, except for a small group of apps.

    Re: marketing, I didn't say they were needing to spend more... I was saying their messaging is not right now, and they need to work on it - and then the people that want their content contextualized and available in a multitude of ways will realize and start buying PB's... at least that's my hope.

    To me, RIM has a rich history in security (important for me), battery-life (they need to work on this with PB, but they're only at version 1 for PB so I'm giving them time to do that), and bandwidth optimization that will help keep them very relevant in the post-pc, post-app world. There's a tonne of room in this market, and I don't expect that there will be a clear winner. I just hope RIM is one of them. I think they will be.
    Jake Storm likes this.
    07-02-11 09:05 AM
  22. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    If I were RIM, I would spend a few hundred thousand dollars to hire a team of lawyers to sue BGR for malicious falsehood and defamation that is injurious to shareholders. My tact would be that the letter is a fraud, causing BGR to have to cough up the source of this letter. If BGR can't provide a name they will be in big trouble. I think BGR is going to be on the hot seat soon and they are going to wish they didn't publish that letter.
    And what in that letter would you propose was false to make a defamation claim? You can't sue for defamation just because somebody said something to make you look bad. You have to prove it to be untrue.
    07-02-11 09:36 AM
  23. sosumi11's Avatar
    Sosumi, thanks for your reply.
    You are very welcome

    I think the only reason 'apps' are relevant is they are a delivery mechanism for contextualized content now because the web hasn't evolved enough to be ready without apps. I think the race to relevance in terms of #'s of apps is a short wave, and in a year to two we will be looking at the numbers of apps and laughing that it was ever an important metric. As programs and content move more to a cloud platform, having a view into that content and having it contextualized will be king in my mind.
    There are tens of thousands of stand-alone apps available for iOS (internet connection not required). Very few people want to be tied to the internet in order to use their tablet (computer). The cloud will be used to store media. Not applications.

    The whole app metric is superfluous once a device gets 'good' apps at a breadth that will satisfy the user. I don't need 200 VNC apps. I need one good one. It's classic breadth vs depth. There is no way I would have the time to download and try out the other 199 (and multiply that by # of categories, etc)
    This is called "selection". When you go shopping for a product at a retail store, are you satisfied if a store only has one or two products for you to choose from or would you rather have a wall full of choices? This is where the customer reviewers come in. It's all about "choice" and this is why Windows dominated Macs. Sure there might have been ONE good Mac program, but Windows had dozens to choose from. Consumers love choice.

    I look at Apple as AOL back in the 80s/90s. They are providing a walled-garden system that is doing a great job of bringing people into the post-computing era, but pretty soon people are going to be upset that they're stuck using their content in only the ways that Apple prescribes. This is the same as what happened to AOL when they didn't evolve to let people do things the way they wanted.
    How is Apple controlling the content? Apple is a content deliverer. They don't care where or how you get your content (movies, books, music, etc). They only want you to use their devices. Apple's "walled-garden" is a fire wall. It is safe. If you download an app or media from iTunes, you are ensured that it is NOT infected and it works as advertised. Millions of consumers appreciate this in that they don't have to be geeks. All of the media companies have iOS apps (Time/Warner, HBO, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Showtime, DC/Marvel comics, etc). Explain how this is a BAD thing?

    I find that I download apps on it and use them once, never to be used again, except for a small group of apps.
    That is you. Are you representative of the entire market? No. iOS apps are impulse buys. The app you downloaded today may be replaced by another app tomorrow. You are missing the point of developer support. The developers are competing for YOUR business on every function (app) you seek. Each app you buy adds more functions to your device. The more choices available, the more powerful your device becomes. There is a developer out there that is saying "I can do that function better." And they will.

    Re: marketing, I didn't say they were needing to spend more... I was saying their messaging is not right now, and they need to work on it - and then the people that want their content contextualized and available in a multitude of ways will realize and start buying PB's... at least that's my hope.
    And I said, the message isn't important if people aren't interested in your product to begin with. People own iPods, iPhones and Macs. They want an iPad. Why would they even LOOK at a Playbook ad? If they don't have an Apple product, all they have to do is know the app count. Consumers LOVE things to buy after the sale. The product stays fresh and is renewed with every new app they buy/download. And not tom mention third party support of cases, stands and other add-ons.

    To me, RIM has a rich history in security (important for me), battery-life (they need to work on this with PB, but they're only at version 1 for PB so I'm giving them time to do that), and bandwidth optimization that will help keep them very relevant in the post-pc, post-app world. There's a tonne of room in this market, and I don't expect that there will be a clear winner. I just hope RIM is one of them. I think they will be.
    I have great respect for RIM in what they accomplished, but they are not built for this war. Their devices were transitional devices. They served a purpose when there was a void. That void has not only been filled, but surpassed to the point that the Apple's and Microsoft's will resume.

    Microsoft has a HUGE following. Their fans are waiting for the Windows tablet. That's what they do. Microsoft has a history of being late to the party and their customers know this. Security is not Microsoft's strong suit, so why should their customers care now?

    In my opinion, By 2013, Apple will dominate with 60% of the market share, Microsoft will capture 35%, and Android will eventually fade away. Android tabloids are not selling and if they continue to not sell, there is no future for the platform. Google is learning that their ROI on Android is not worth it and will drop support. Add to the fact that Larry Page and Sergey Brin are big Steve Jobs admirers and were very upset that Schmidt made Apple their enemy with Android. As a result, Schmidt was demoted from a position of power to a position of figurehead.

    Thanks again for your reply.

    (By the way, I am a marketing professional for over 30 years, having worked at a couple of the largest ad agencies in the world).

    Cheers.
    Last edited by sosumi11; 07-02-11 at 10:59 AM.
    howarmat and BigBadWulf like this.
    07-02-11 10:56 AM
  24. Economist101's Avatar
    The onus would be on them to prove they were fake which would be tough to do when the first one is sufficiently generic in its complaints that it could easily be real or written by an outsider.
    If RIM were going to pursue some legal action, they wouldn't bother to argue the content of the letter; instead, they would argue that the letter was not written by a RIM employee.

    And what in that letter would you propose was false to make a defamation claim? You can't sue for defamation just because somebody said something to make you look bad. You have to prove it to be untrue.
    Exactly. The one thing I would note is that when a Plaintiff presents a defamation claim, the statement is presumed to be false; the Plaintiff need not prove it is so. However, if the Defendant can prove the statement is in fact true, such proof acts as a defense to the defamation claim.

    I look at Apple as AOL back in the 80s/90s. They are providing a walled-garden system that is doing a great job of bringing people into the post-computing era, but pretty soon people are going to be upset that they're stuck using their content in only the ways that Apple prescribes. This is the same as what happened to AOL when they didn't evolve to let people do things the way they wanted.
    Care to enlighten us just how Apple is restricting content beyond other vendors? At last check, any place that legally sells books, movies and TV shows sells them with DRM.
    07-02-11 11:12 AM
  25. katiepea's Avatar
    Care to enlighten us just how Apple is restricting content beyond other vendors? At last check, any place that legally sells books, movies and TV shows sells them with DRM.
    i would love to, the app store has a policy that you can't purchase items in app from anyone other than apple, kindle is currently breaking the rules, it's up in the air whether apple will remove it or not as far as i know, i'd bet they do.
    07-02-11 02:48 PM
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