07-11-11 05:01 PM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    ooh i agree the crackberry WAP site has improved greatly over the years on some things. it works pretty good on torch and storm. Many wap sites dont though. they are very basic and lack lots of functionality in my experience.
    I wouldn't call it "wap" sites anymore, if you browse from an old blackberry you still get the old wap sites but from an OS6 device you get mobile sites, they're a lot more advanced.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 02:08 PM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Still, the ability to browse and view flash sites should be available to the customer if he is willing to pay. That should not be a limitation imposed on him by the device manufacturer (I'm speaking of Apple here too, not just RIM).
    I tested data usage and the full crackberry site with javacript enabled can take nearly 2mb to load. That can quickly ad up to a lot.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 02:10 PM
  3. howarmat's Avatar
    2.62 MBs for the current CB frontpage using Dolphin HD with flash and all other plugins turned on
    07-05-11 02:20 PM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    2.62 MBs for the current CB frontpage using Dolphin HD with flash and all other plugins turned on
    Do me a favour if you don't mind, can you test how much data does yours use to load the page a second time? I noticed OS6 only uses about 170kb to load the page a second time and I wonder if this is a blackberry thing or universal across platforms.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 02:29 PM
  5. howarmat's Avatar
    a little under 2 MBs with refresh
    07-05-11 02:35 PM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    a little under 2 MBs with refresh
    Sounds like a lot, I certainly couldn't browse like that on my 500mb plan. Android plans are the same by the way, only iphone plans get more but they do cost more too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 02:43 PM
  7. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Sounds like a lot, I certainly couldn't browse like that on my 500mb plan. Android plans are the same by the way, only iphone plans get more but they do cost more too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I use 500 MB in less than 5 days on my BlackBerry. By the way, I am posting here from my device using the HTML site in Opera Mini.
    07-05-11 02:52 PM
  8. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Sounds like a lot, I certainly couldn't browse like that on my 500mb plan. Android plans are the same by the way, only iphone plans get more but they do cost more too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Luckily your tariff's are much cheaper than ours initially but that still doesn't make up over the life of the device. Wifi helps, but it's totally dependent on your carrier & how data is routed. That's one of the good things about BlackBerry is the compression & optimization of data. Although at times it can hinder what you're trying to accomplish.
    07-05-11 02:52 PM
  9. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    In this debate, who cares whether the touchscreen is 3.7" or 4.3"? The fundamental issues remain. I agree that RIM needs to continue to appease it's die-hard customer base with a QWERTY device. A complete abandonment of that form factor would an unwise business decision.

    However, RIM needs to get into 5th gear so that they can continue to compete in 2012, 2013 and beyond. Touchscreen devices are where the market is headed... in fact, touchscreen devices is where the market already is. The QWERTY form factor points to a bygone era when "smartphone" simply meant "phone+e-mail." Apple and Android have blown by BB, and Windows Phone has a ton of momentum right now, especially from developers. RIM doesn't even have a piece of hardware right now that competes in that market. RIM will essentially have to start from scratch. In fact, one could say that RIM's position is even worse than starting from scratch, due to their pissing off and turning off developers with the current laborious and costly app building methods.

    This again is a debatable post.
    YES. RIM needs to step it up and gain market share in a market they never really had a foot hold in, being the touchscreen market, arguing that the size of that form factor is irrelevant is far from true. HOW RIM enters the market again is VERY defendant on TOTAL user experience, which means hardware form factor software implementation and app environment, maintaining the "feel" of the blackberry requires sticking within a shape design meaning 3.7ish, not creating their touch market on the mini slab 4.3" when they are selling a 7" tablet, as mentioned in this thread the significance between 7" and 4.3" isn't great enough to make users carry both devices, so logically you develop for the platform and not for a single device sale

    Now to debate the lack of relevance of the qwerty form factor, the desire for the form factor has done nothing but increase year over year, hence RIM's growth in sales, the smartphone market is like the automobile market, just because SUV's outsold mini vans for years did not make Mini vans any less relevant, though this analogy is a poor one, the touch sceen market is a different market under the same umprella of smartphone, RIM's relevance has continued to grow year in and ear out on the keyboard device market and that market is still the one they dominate, YES they need to enter the touch screen market, but the qwerty device does not talk to a bygone era, it is very much a relevant and growing market, just not at the same rate as the touchscreen market

    Developer support lies with those who are making development easy, RIM has not done this in the past, hopefully they are addressing this with QNX SDK's moving forward because I have little interest in being a developer I can't speak to the direction RIM has moved over the last 2 years

    Those that argue RIM is in a worse position than starting from scratch do not understand supply chains, nor relationship history in sales, purchasing, and development. Though those that argue that RIM should start from scratch also don't understand those fundamentals, nor do they understand legacy support and development cycles.

    RIM is still in a very strong position as a company their biggest problem is they seem content living in the bubble that has been qwerty devices, when their is a far larger market available to them, and they have an utter sh** PR and marketing department that has let them just be destroyed in the media for 2 years, RIM's attempt at entering the tablet market IMO was successful, IF!! They are using it to gauge requirements for the next generation AND their next OS if they make the same blunder from Storm 1 to Storm 2 and not truly address the short comings they are destined to not compete at a tier one player in the smartphone arena

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 03:12 PM
  10. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    RE: the tangent. Full web vs WAP

    That is very much a user preference.
    I run WAP on my 52" living room screen, and 16" notebook on many sites I consume text from. They generally have far more appealing colour schemes, and less distractions,

    Also as someone who hits my data cap at home saving 60-80MB of data a day loading WAP sites over full sites when the full site provides me no added value is money in the bank

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 03:17 PM
  11. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    NOT everyone uses their device for all of those functions though, and I am NOT using current sales to dictate future success, I am using current trends! And extrapolating, the fact RIM could sell 13million 6month old + devices last quarter says that the qwerty market is very much alive and continuing to grow, HAD rim had quality touchscreen only devices this would be a far less relevant argument, YES touch screens are growing. But for a GPS in my car I was 5" @ 4:3. Or better, but that would be a usable phone device, plus I don't want my email distraction, on the windshield as I drive 50-60,000 miles a year,
    And as a mini computer a keyboard is better than a touchscreen short cuts save valuable seconds, just as macro's do on the desktop. My Torch STILL is used more as a laptop replacement over my Playbook.

    I don't deny Jobs has great vision, and has an unbelievable ability to make consumers want what he tells them they want.

    The touch screen market IS needed, but so IS the qwerty market, the qwerty devices just need to be made with feature parity

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 04:05 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Don't forget there's more dumbphones then smartphones out there and they all have a keyboard and they all do web and email/facebook etc, if you take away all kyboard blackberry devices as well all other that come with a qwerty or a slide out qwerty(motorola, htc, nokia etc) it leaves only a small proportion of pure touch screen phones out there.

    Overall keyboard still rules.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 04:14 PM
  13. tack's Avatar
    Don't forget there's more dumbphones then smartphones out there and they all have a keyboard and they all do web and email/facebook etc, if you take away all kyboard blackberry devices as well all other that come with a qwerty or a slide out qwerty(motorola, htc, nokia etc) it leaves only a small proportion of pure touch screen phones out there.

    Overall keyboard still rules.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I would not count normal phone keypad as keyboards on smartphones and include them in the same category. Nearly everyone I know who has purchased a smartphone in the last year bought a full touchscreen device. I don't think you can say keyboards still rule. I am not sure if there are good statistics to even say which one rules.
    07-05-11 05:10 PM
  14. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I would not count normal phone keypad as keyboards on smartphones and include them in the same category. Nearly everyone I know who has purchased a smartphone in the last year bought a full touchscreen device. I don't think you can say keyboards still rule. I am not sure if there are good statistics to even say which one rules.
    Oh there ARE good statistics that say that a full touchscreen IS the number 1 selling form factor, case in point iPhone sales making up a LARGE portion of the global sales in the last 4 quarters. Without extrapolating android and Rim sales, iPhone sales show the touchscreen market is the largest market and fastest growing.
    That said growth of qwerty phones and touch screen phones are mutually exclusive, both can be growing, despite the others growth rate

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 05:31 PM
  15. Nogrentain's Avatar
    I'm going to have to agree with deRusett here with RIm being justified in continued qwerty phone development. I think that RIM is catering to both sides here. You have the curve, and bold as candybar qwerty phones. The Torch is a hybrid that is a very popular device, and the Touch will be the pure touchscreen phone. I'd like to see 4" at the most for the touch, as the playbook incorporates bezel controls and that takes space. It'd be great to have the same feature interface on it.

    I think that the next lineup is indicative of RIM learning and adapting. There is a much higher commonality between the new lineup sets. There's only 4 now, vs a pearl, curve, style, bold, torch, and storm, with os5-6. I think that for RIM's size, and developing both software and hardware, that 6 devices is just too much. Even dropping the style. The whole point of the curve (9300 aside, as it's nearly identical to 9700, though its price point is much lower) has evolved to an entry level qwerty phone, which means it needs to be noticeably different from the bold. They all have the same OS. 3 out of 4 have the same aspect ratio screens. All will be touch (unless rim really is going to have 2 curve models. I really hope that they stick to a bold style curve). I'd have liked the 99xx to have a 3" screen in the same chassis, if possible, not only for the slightly extra screen space, but for the 3" screen size impact psychologically speaking. 2.x just sounds minuscule in these times of slate phones. I think that it'll do fine anyways, but that it'd do even better if it had 3". I think that the 4 handsets cover the largest number of market desires, and allows RIM to consolidate resources on fewer, more common, handsets, for higher per model quality.

    I think that if the rumour is holding true that the QNX "superphone" could have a 1.2ghz single core that RIM should rather put in a 1.2ghz dual core, and then have the option to shut down a core to conserve battery. I consider that to be the best compromise, where when you want/need the juice, you get it, and when you don't, you get a much better battery life. I also hope that 4.3" won't be it, again due to the bezel controls likely requiring some space. 4" looks fine enough to me. Again, it's the psychological impact of the whole number 4. If RIM wants to play ball in the slate phone segment, it's gotta go all the way, or go home. And they should backtrack, and offer QNX support to torch/touch/bold when the time comes, especially if the rumour is true.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    07-05-11 10:37 PM
  16. T
    The only things RIM has done wrong so far are as follows:

    1. Omitted the "Do Not Disturb" feature in newer os's and devices ...

    ***Posted securely without any android lag from my BlackBerry***
    Okay, I'll try to put a positive spin on it. My Bold has wifi, so when I'm at home and want my incoming calls to go straight to voicemail without lighting up the screen, I can just turn off my network connection and still get all my messages over wifi. This wasn't possible on my non-wifi Curve, but it wasn't necessary either because the 8330m had Do Not Disturb. This workaround (for lack of a better word) amounts to 1/2 Do Not Disturb; it's dependent on a wifi connection, and my outgoing calls are obviously limited.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 11:41 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    a little under 2 MBs with refresh
    How much data to load mobile crackberry and how much to refresh?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 03:37 AM
  18. southlander's Avatar
    Nearly everyone I know who has purchased a smartphone in the last year bought a full touchscreen device.
    I will be interesting to see how many buy a full touchscreen phone twice IF there are compellng physicial qwerty phones in the market once their 2 years are up.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 03:49 AM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    It's kinda amazing when you think about it, an OS6 BB will need less then 2mb to open crackberry.com and refresh it 2 maybe 3 times where Android would use 4.50mb to open and refresh once.
    A BB can refresh that page 6-7 more times with 1mb where Android would use 10mb just to refresh 5 times that same page. And so on the more you refresh that page. Not to mention that all the content viewed will be available offline.

    I'm sorry but if this is not innovation what is?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 03:51 AM
  20. southlander's Avatar
    the fact RIM could sell 13million 6month old + devices last quarter says that the qwerty market is very much alive and continuing to grow
    Exactly. That's what I do not get when reading the bloggers who casually write off RIM when they are managing to move so many devices, without having anything new. That does say something about the brand and the form factor.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 03:57 AM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Exactly. That's what I do not get when reading the bloggers who casually write off RIM when they are managing to move so many devices, without having anything new. That does say something about the brand and the form factor.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Some countries really do go crazy for BB and BBM, from Venezuela apparently:

    rtsp://v5.cache7.c.youtube.com/CjgLENy73wIaLwmzxf7h_km_YxMYJCAkFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSA RSB3JlbGF0ZWRg59PZ9dDzhopODA==/0/0/0/video.3gp

    Quite catchy

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 04:03 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I'm not sure if I'm pasting this link right

    YouTube - Dame Tu Pin LITTLE BIG

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 04:05 AM
  23. katiepea's Avatar
    RIM has a very large international business. the numbers are VASTLY different if you step outside the USA for marketshare statistics. only problem with that is investors don't really seem to care much for those numbers because they aren't sustainable. here's why. lets take venezuela and india for example. blackberry claims their future lies in QNX, these handsets will allegedly be "up-to-date" with current mobile technology and be considered "high end" devices. they also tout international marketshare as a strength. these 2 ends of a business model seem to cancel each other out here. people in venezuela and india won't be buying QNX handsets, americans will, at least hopefully. the 8330 is the most popular and best selling handset internationally, specifically these 2 countries.

    they aren't buying up new blackberry handsets, they're in love with cheap and reliable. google and apple have a hard time in these markets because anything expensive doesn't sell. so if RIM is relying on qnx and international sales to stay afloat i don't see one helping the other. poor countries simply can't afford new technology, and i'd say it'd take a few years before the prices of QNX handsets drops to a pricepoint where these people can even think about purchasing one. they don't have the same luxuries as a lot of people are used to with competing mobile services and deals on contract.

    for rim to survive with QNX they have to make it big in the USA. period. installed userbase doesn't really matter if you ask an investor, if that were the case nokia would be thriving still
    kevinnugent likes this.
    07-06-11 06:30 AM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    RIM has a very large international business. the numbers are VASTLY different if you step outside the USA for marketshare statistics. only problem with that is investors don't really seem to care much for those numbers because they aren't sustainable. here's why. lets take venezuela and india for example. blackberry claims their future lies in QNX, these handsets will allegedly be "up-to-date" with current mobile technology and be considered "high end" devices. they also tout international marketshare as a strength. these 2 ends of a business model seem to cancel each other out here. people in venezuela and india won't be buying QNX handsets, americans will, at least hopefully. the 8330 is the most popular and best selling handset internationally, specifically these 2 countries.

    they aren't buying up new blackberry handsets, they're in love with cheap and reliable. google and apple have a hard time in these markets because anything expensive doesn't sell. so if RIM is relying on qnx and international sales to stay afloat i don't see one helping the other. poor countries simply can't afford new technology, and i'd say it'd take a few years before the prices of QNX handsets drops to a pricepoint where these people can even think about purchasing one. they don't have the same luxuries as a lot of people are used to with competing mobile services and deals on contract.

    for rim to survive with QNX they have to make it big in the USA. period. installed userbase doesn't really matter if you ask an investor, if that were the case nokia would be thriving still
    Rim always had budget and high end devices, why would QNX change that? It's not the OS that puts the price up, it's the hardware.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-06-11 06:38 AM
  25. katiepea's Avatar
    Rim always had budget and high end devices, why would QNX change that? It's not the OS that puts the price up, it's the hardware.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    because, as stated, QNX handsets are going to have expensive hardware putting them at the same pricepoint as high end android devices and iphone models.
    07-06-11 06:41 AM
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