07-11-11 06:01 PM
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  1. howarmat's Avatar
    That fragmentation is exactly what RIM needs to avoid until they get their ducks lined up and quacking. If they make a decent run with the Monaco/Monza, they may have the option of adding a larger handset later. iOS does what it does, and they do ok with their one form factor. Kinda like Henry Ford's qoute of 'You can have any color you want, as long as it's black." Android has a plethora of touchscreens, plus a fee landscape sliders, but only has one mediocre portrait keyboard.

    There's definitely room for improvement on many fronts. The whole Smartphone arena is evolving, and tomorrow is another day.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    yep that is certainly true
    07-05-11 09:57 AM
  2. avt123's Avatar
    That speed will keep going down the more people jump on LTE though and 3G speed will be getting faster as a consequence. I already find GPRS and EDGE has improved a lot since everybody's on 3G now.
    In the US, a clogged 3G network is still faster than EDGE in my experience. I'd rather be on the clogged 3G network.
    07-05-11 09:59 AM
  3. avt123's Avatar
    See my quote
    "you can't be all things to all people"

    Blackberry or RIM I should say can not afford to diversify their line by making an LTE device for 500,000,000 potential people when the market for a non LTE device is 3 times the size,

    Once RIM has it's ducks back in a row, THEN they can start looking at specialty products, though I expect LTE will be main stream by the time RIM is ready to deploy said technology since I really don't think they'd deploy it until a QNX device or two are up and running.

    QNX needs to be their focus, NOT a new wireless standard that has yet to be globaly adopted and the hardware yet to be refined
    I can agree to this. QNX should definitely be their focus.
    07-05-11 10:02 AM
  4. kbz1960's Avatar
    well its not bad really. Most apps written 2 years ago for 1.6 still work on 2.3 and 3.0 even. THAT is something that RIM has issue with. programs that worked on 4.7 might have to be fixed to run on 5.0 or 6.0 and 7. If all the apps from 6.0 could carry over to OS 7 that would be great but i dont think that will happen. and screen sizes dont matter for most apps either as scaling the apps to fit the screen work very well. Keep in mind they are all built for touchscreen for the most part so that helps tremendously im sure. In the end devs dont have to work about all the skins nor the version of android as much as you would think.
    Thanks, seems like I read something about devs not liking all the different screen sizes but maybe that was more from phone to tab?

    Hopefully QNX will eliminate that.
    07-05-11 10:07 AM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    RIM doesn't need to be #1 in the consumer business. But, lets face it, RIM is rapidly losing the consumer market. They haven't put out a device in ages. The 9900 is a nice phone, but it is a standard BB form factor, that won't win on specs, won't win on OS, and won't win on apps. There isn't a whole lot of fanfare surrounding this phone outside of the die-hard BB users. After the 9900, there won't be another phone to hit shelves until.... ? Keep in mind that in the tech sector, a month is like a year in the real world.

    It may very well be in RIM's best interests to narrow their focus, downsize (i.e. streamline/make efficient) and attempt to compete that way.
    They are not losing consumer market, all they're loosing is marketshare.
    Rim active subscriber numbers are going up and up.
    The smartphone market is growing so fast that they can't keep up with it as Android and Apple.
    They are winning new customers while loosing market share.
    Shipping 13 million devices in the last quarter is not loosing is it?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 10:23 AM
  6. kbz1960's Avatar
    RIM doesn't need to be #1 in the consumer business. But, lets face it, RIM is rapidly losing the consumer market. They haven't put out a device in ages. The 9900 is a nice phone, but it is a standard BB form factor, that won't win on specs, won't win on OS, and won't win on apps. There isn't a whole lot of fanfare surrounding this phone outside of the die-hard BB users. After the 9900, there won't be another phone to hit shelves until.... ? Keep in mind that in the tech sector, a month is like a year in the real world.

    It may very well be in RIM's best interests to narrow their focus, downsize (i.e. streamline/make efficient) and attempt to compete that way.
    Bah, I'm sure that there are many like me that if it works for me I'm not going to try or even worry about what is the latest and greatest as you'll never keep up and never be happy with your device as it will be outdated before you buy or it even before it comes out then do you wait and just never buy anything?

    But to each their own and I understand people that have to have the best but that's a long chase that never ends.
    Last edited by kbz1960; 07-05-11 at 10:50 AM. Reason: a lot of work ommisions ugh
    07-05-11 10:49 AM
  7. CommanderElvis's Avatar
    Here are the official standards for 4G, per the ITU. dailywireless.org ITU: The Official 4G Standard Approved
    And in the first article I posted it does state that standard as a benchmark. It is up to the carriers whether or not their "4G" networks will actually achieve than benchmark.

    A long way from the old days when those of us who worked wireline had to submit proof of achieving a benchmark.
    07-05-11 11:03 AM
  8. slalom's Avatar
    ....has everyone forgotten....failed to bring an NHL team to Hamilton!
    07-05-11 11:16 AM
  9. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    You might be correct that they cannot compete with Android and/or Apple. If that is the case, then should RIM downsize, forget about consumers, and focus only on it's corporate business? As the market has been showing us, RIM's form factor is out-dated. There are certainly some who appreciate it (you have mentioned this), but you seem to be in the minority. By sticking to the classic BB form factor, RIM is severely limiting itself.
    I NEVER said Apple!
    RIM very much can fight the apple game, the apple game isn't purely about specs, it is about the user experince, THAT is something RIM can fight, fighting a hardware spec battle RIM can't do due to the fact they develop everything, the Android camp have the luxury of just developing hardware, AND since they also manufacture the components for the build they are able to do so much faster at release cycles.

    Apple and RIM both need to buy the components to build their devices, both don't have to compete with other manufacturers with the same OS, that is a winnable battle for RIM,

    Playing the Android slab market is not

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 11:43 AM
  10. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    i agree they do have basically all the same size for the phones. the storms were not much bigger than the other phones RIM had released and it works well for them. I just cant go back to that size screen anymore.

    and yeah taking on android head to head would not be smart but i do think they need something a little out of the norm for them to get people to come back. Even 4 inch will be nice if they do that.
    You might no longer be their target market my friend.

    The 4"+ market is not the business/consumer market, it is very very much a consumer device, and RIM must stay in a dual position, which I feel is very much possible. The fact of their success says so, when they had comparible features as other phones on the market RIM sold like crazy, phones with bigger screens bigger keyboards, more memory always existed as RIM competition, and always will.

    If sub 4" isn't your desired screen size, android is your best bet I am sure.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 11:47 AM
  11. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    RIM doesn't need to be #1 in the consumer business. But, lets face it, RIM is rapidly losing the consumer market. They haven't put out a device in ages. The 9900 is a nice phone, but it is a standard BB form factor, that won't win on specs, won't win on OS, and won't win on apps. There isn't a whole lot of fanfare surrounding this phone outside of the die-hard BB users. After the 9900, there won't be another phone to hit shelves until.... ? Keep in mind that in the tech sector, a month is like a year in the real world.

    It may very well be in RIM's best interests to narrow their focus, downsize (i.e. streamline/make efficient) and attempt to compete that way.
    I think you are looking at it too superficially.

    RIM continues to gain users quarter over quarter, it isn't just the blackberry faithful buying the devices, in addition new users enter the market every year as teens become young adults and get smart phones.
    My argument about not leaving the RIM feel is purely on the no going after the large 4.3" form factor slab market.
    They NEED to maintain the markets they have had.
    That means a premium qwerty
    A entry level qwerty
    Full touch screen blackberry feel!
    Touch screen slider
    Mini candy bar (pearl)

    They must continue those lines and get a foothold before they move to battling the niche form factor of 4"+ devices.
    I'd like to find a stat that said how many unique 4"+ screen only devices are sold, I would wager it is lower than the number of torches sold.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 12:05 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    In the US, a clogged 3G network is still faster than EDGE in my experience. I'd rather be on the clogged 3G network.
    Just saying, 4-5 seconds to open mobile crackberry on EDGE is not bad is it? I remember it being A LOT slower then that 2-3 years ago.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 01:49 PM
  13. avt123's Avatar
    Just saying, 4-5 seconds to open mobile crackberry on EDGE is not bad is it? I remember it being A LOT slower then that 2-3 years ago.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    See, I am not talking about mobile site, I am talking about normal. There is a big difference. I agree, mobile sites are not that bad to open on EDGE, opening normal sites can suck really bad though.
    07-05-11 02:03 PM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    See, I am not talking about mobile site, I am talking about normal. There is a big difference. I agree, mobile sites are not that bad to open on EDGE, opening normal sites can suck really bad though.
    Lol, why would I want the go to full sites on a phone? Just to load ads at the side of what I want to read? I only go to full sites if I have to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 02:12 PM
  15. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Lol, why would I want the go to full sites on a phone? Just to load ads at the side of what I want to read? I only go to full sites if I have to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    One reason I prefer full sites is because I like to email links to friends, most of whom view them on a PC desktop. Viewing mobile sites on a PC desktop is not good, so I prefer to send them the links to the full site. It is easier to just do that when I am at the full site, rather than editing the URL when I send links.
    07-05-11 02:17 PM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    One reason I prefer full sites is because I like to email links to friends, most of whom view them on a PC desktop. Viewing mobile sites on a PC desktop is not good, so I prefer to send them the links to the full site. It is easier to just do that when I am at the full site, rather than editing the URL when I send links.
    I would let them worry about it lol.
    Browsing full sites uses 2-3 times the data mobile sites use, that's my main reason to sticking to mobile sites.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 02:26 PM
  17. howarmat's Avatar
    Lol, why would I want the go to full sites on a phone? Just to load ads at the side of what I want to read? I only go to full sites if I have to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    because those who have nice big screen phones can easily enjoy full websites! its a great experience. i agree with your tiny screen mobile sites are probably the better option but with a good browser and big screen on a phone WAP is a joke. most people have unlimited data here and we dont care about data and have pretty fast 3G or 4G data speeds. it takes seconds to load full pages. You remind CB of how you barely have 3G and you limited data every chance you get though.
    Last edited by howarmat; 07-05-11 at 02:31 PM.
    07-05-11 02:27 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I would let them worry about it lol.
    Browsing full sites uses 2-3 times the data mobile sites use, that's my main reason to sticking to mobile sites.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I try to accommodate the experience of those who are receiving the links. If I am going to make them work, I might as well not even bother sending the links.

    I have an unlimited data plan, so using mobile sites is not an advantage to me.
    07-05-11 02:30 PM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    because those who have nice big screen phones can easily enjoy full websites! its a great experience. i agree with your tiny screen mobile sites are probably the better option but with a good browser and big screen on a phone WAP is a joke. most people have unlimited data here and we dont care about data and have pretty fast 3G or 4G data speeds. it takes seconds to load full pages. You remind CB of how you barely have 3G and you limited data every chance you get though.
    It's not just me though, it's an European thing and we also roam a lot more often too. I agree on a big screen it makes more sense but you can't have a big screen and a small phone can you?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 02:43 PM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    "Wap" sites are not what they used to be by the way, they look a lot better now days and they have more functionality then they used to but still without the adds.
    Even mobile CB looks better on OS6 then on OS5 or older.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 02:52 PM
  21. howarmat's Avatar
    ooh i agree the crackberry WAP site has improved greatly over the years on some things. it works pretty good on torch and storm. Many wap sites dont though. they are very basic and lack lots of functionality in my experience.
    07-05-11 02:59 PM
  22. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    "Wap" sites are not what they used to be by the way, they look a lot better now days and they have more functionality then they used to but still without the adds.
    Even mobile CB looks better on OS6 then on OS5 or older.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Mobile CB is pretty much unreadable, due to the tiny font.
    07-05-11 03:00 PM
  23. BergerKing's Avatar
    And then comes the Catch-22, as carriers change their data tiers, full browsing can rapidly put a dent in your pocketbook. Oops. So your ability to web browse may be an Albatross down the road.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 03:03 PM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Mobile CB is pretty much unreadable, due to the tiny font.
    Yeah but when you click on the trackpad it zooms in and reformats the text to fit the screen, it's the equivalent of the "column" view on the OS5 browser.
    It actually works very good and you can adjust the font that it reformats to after it zooms.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-05-11 03:05 PM
  25. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    And then comes the Catch-22, as carriers change their data tiers, full browsing can rapidly put a dent in your pocketbook. Oops. So your ability to web browse may be an Albatross down the road.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Still, the ability to browse and view flash sites should be available to the customer if he is willing to pay. That should not be a limitation imposed on him by the device manufacturer (I'm speaking of Apple here too, not just RIM).
    07-05-11 03:07 PM
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