07-11-11 06:01 PM
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  1. lnichols's Avatar
    Neither Apple nor RIM will build LTE phones until the dual mode chipsets are available, and the market is bigger than the US. Most of the rest of the world hasn't even made the spectrum available for 4G, much less auctioned it off. The Verizon and AT&T spectrum were just freed up in the switch to digital tv in the US. With 3g GSM and cdma, and now hspa, they can sell the same ohones in many places all over the world. With LTE it would be US only at the moment, and they would be dual radio messes.
    07-03-11 08:30 PM
  2. Economist101's Avatar
    Customers DO! have an option, they can buy a NON blackberry device if 4G is that important, RIM CAN NOT! be All things to all people, that is how a company fails,
    Exactly. People like to chant "consumers want choice" all the time, but consumers are less interested in "choice" than they are finding whatever works for them. In many cases, providing more choices means a company is more likely to offer a product that a particular customer wants, but recent examples have proven this to be far from absolute.
    07-03-11 08:32 PM
  3. kbz1960's Avatar
    Well they want choice but they want their choice from their favorite manufacturer or OS. They don't want to go to something new. Sure they could leave bb for android or iphone but then maybe they give up some of their favorite features even though there may be things they like about the android and iphone. Visa Versa for all 3.

    I agree no one can be everything to everyone.
    07-03-11 08:43 PM
  4. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    deRusett, please go apply at RIM

    I have thought about it many times, but my qualifications would not put me in a department I would want to be in at first. though I would still enjoy it if I was in a Sr management roll in the department my qualifications would have me in.
    07-03-11 08:47 PM
  5. kbz1960's Avatar
    It seems like they really need some fresh minds and thinking............... wow that seems like an understatement. I would've thought that the QNX and TAT teams would've brought this but maybe it just takes longer than one thinks.
    07-03-11 08:51 PM
  6. otacon#AC's Avatar
    RIM coming out with an LTE handset would show one thing that they have been lacking for MANY years....innovation. Verizon is rolling out LTE on almost a monthly basis. RIM has not said ONE word about LTE except for the Playbook which is still an unfinished device after how long? You won't see an LTE handset from RIM until this time next year and I will be LONG gone by then. I've been with RIM for MANY years but I'm done. One of RIM's own employees put it best:"The whole campaign around the Playbook seems to be IT DOES FLASH! LOOK! but honestly, my mother doesnt know or care about that. She wants to know can I play Angry Birds?.

    I already have an upgrade available and my "loyalty upgrade" hits in August right around the time the Droid Bionic should hit Verizon. I'm gone at that point. I live in Boston and I'm not waiting a year for RIM to come out with an LTE handset. I hear people say well it's only in a few cities. My friend lives 25 miles south of Boston and he gets full bars on his LTE data card.
    07-03-11 09:00 PM
  7. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    RIM coming out with an LTE handset would show one thing that they have been lacking for MANY years....innovation. Verizon is rolling out LTE on almost a monthly basis. RIM has not said ONE word about LTE except for the Playbook which is still an unfinished device after how long? You won't see an LTE handset from RIM until this time next year and I will be LONG gone by then. I've been with RIM for MANY years but I'm done. One of RIM's own employees put it best:"The whole campaign around the Playbook seems to be IT DOES FLASH! LOOK! but honestly, my mother doesnt know or care about that. She wants to know can I play Angry Birds?.

    I already have an upgrade available and my "loyalty upgrade" hits in August right around the time the Droid Bionic should hit Verizon. I'm gone at that point. I live in Boston and I'm not waiting a year for RIM to come out with an LTE handset. I hear people say well it's only in a few cities. My friend lives 25 miles south of Boston and he gets full bars on his LTE data card.

    I must be confused as to the definition of innovative, as I don't understand how introducing LTE which is a standard and emerging technology on their devices could be considered innovative, and not just evolutionary.
    07-03-11 09:05 PM
  8. CGI's Avatar
    Here is another one for me to disagree with
    well maybe not disagree, but nit pick due to over exaggerations

    1)
    Apple iPhone Launched on June 29, 2007. so 4 years and 4 days ago! so RIM far from fell asleep 5 years ago from developing an app friendly market, so MAYBE 3.5 years ago RIM didn't realize a redesign of their OS philosophy was in order, but 5 years ago, I don't think so, The computer market was shifting from Programs on the desktop back to more server controlled terminal access, and network deployment technologies, AJAX Ruby on Rails, .NET development was blossoming all over the net making people think all they needed was a browser. Apple REALLY changed things, and then Google followed suit, it was when Android hit the market that RIM REALLY then FAILED to acknowledge their mistake in not revamping their OS. so RIM really has only been a failure since Novemberish 2008. being a little over 2.5 years, NOT 5 years.

    2)
    RIM falling behind in hardware was very much they are too Canadian, they kept giving Marvell chances to get better chips out IMO, because of sharing consistency between GSM, and CDMA flavours, they couldn't take off with Qualcomm until marvell has something comparable, they really in 2008 should have gone 100% Qualcomm, and then unified chipsets reducing the number of OS's and streamlining their process, allowing them easier abilities to address the app issues and OS fragmentation, they folly for not seeing Apps were becoming a platform requirement

    3)
    RIM's "multi Media" has been terrific, I have been able to watch movies, listen to music, and read books for many years. RIM's browser was a let down, they did take too long to find webkit and adopt it, or at least partner with someone to deliver a quality browser, it would never be as fast as the competition due to traveling through the NOC, but it is ONLY the Browser not "multi media" that RIM fell on.

    4)
    Quality issues... RIM has the lowest Hardware faults as found by UK research. With the exception of the Storm line, RIM has had and continues to have excellent quality control, the devices don't last like those built 5 years ago, BUT the market does not want the devices built 5 years ago with hard large plastic shells, the market dictates slimmer lighter shiny devices, RIM has been SLLOOWWLLLY addressing that
    As for "feature quality" again apart from the browser I don't see what is being talked about.
    I'll nitpick back;

    The iphone might have launched 4 years ago, but Apple was working on it well before then. How long? RIM should have been forward thinking like them - definitely at least 5 years.

    Quality; No doubt RIM has slipped on quality... The Storm... Trackball issues (anyone owning a Tour can attest)... Playbook launched partially done... They've slipped. (But I think they've learned)

    Multimedia; yes... the browser (and to this day the browser)... but they've been playing catch up on multimedia all along.
    07-03-11 09:06 PM
  9. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I'll nitpick back;

    The iphone might have launched 4 years ago, but Apple was working on it well before then. How long? RIM should have been forward thinking like them - definitely at least 5 years.

    Quality; No doubt RIM has slipped on quality... The Storm... Trackball issues (anyone owning a Tour can attest)... Playbook launched partially done... They've slipped. (But I think they've learned)

    Multimedia; yes... the browser (and to this day the browser)... but they've been playing catch up on multimedia all along.

    Apple Announced the iPhone in January of 2007, AND! I justified why I felt RIM didn't have a reason to expect Apps to take the market by storm,
    WHAT industry cues where there that Apps would be a dominating force in the mobile industry in 2006? when looking at the Mobile Phone industry and the computer industry for trends from 2001 through to 2007 the market was NOT looking to be an app driven market, the mobile phone market was very much an email/office document market, in conjunction with PIM, web access was minimal, content consumption was minimal.
    I really am interested at WHAT trends RIM should have been looking to to guess that Apples gamble on an app launching device would be the next big thing 18 months or more before they launched it.

    The playbook hardware quality is/was stellar! almost zero reported light leakage, and a TINY software related recall, which was recalled a testament to quality control is capturing recalls.
    I had a Tour ( 3 actually) only 1 was returned due to a trackball issues, I've returned more LG computer monitors.

    I still don't know outside of the browser where RIM lacks in Multimedia
    Last edited by deRusett; 07-03-11 at 09:13 PM.
    07-03-11 09:11 PM
  10. kb5zht's Avatar
    You haven't done your home work,

    When Will 4G coverage have 500,000,000 user coverage?
    I would wager you are looking into the end of 2013 for that, so RIM very much is right when 3G coverage and 2G exclusive coverage are both still much larger markets.
    Wow, had somebody done their homework before casting stones they would know the United States doesnt even have 500 million people living in it, and thats the market they are losing.

    I would step back for a second and wonder why your are defending the policies of a company that has cauwed its revenues to decline, stock value collapse and increasing number of companies simply disregard its products (carriers too) because they are being seen as the company of yesterday. Developers and blowing off the playbook. Its beginning to domino.

    5 years ago a report that shareholders of ticker RIMM were plotting a coup against the two co-ceo's would have gotten laughed at.

    Instead you are hearing "its about time."

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-03-11 09:20 PM
  11. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Wow, had somebody done their homework before casting stones they would know the United States doesnt even have 500 million people living in it, and thats the market they are losing.

    I would step back for a second and wonder why your are defending the policies of a company that has cauwed its revenues to decline, stock value collapse and increasing number of companies simply disregard its products (carriers too) because they are being seen as the company of yesterday. Developers and blowing off the playbook. Its beginning to domino.

    5 years ago a report that shareholders of ticker RIMM were plotting a coup against the two co-ceo's would have gotten laughed at.

    Instead you are hearing "its about time."

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    I did my research when I chose 500,000,000 that is greater than the combined populations of Slovakia, Japan, USA, and Canada, which are currently the only Solid LTE roll out plans in the next 6-9 months,
    Though I have read some things to blow my number out of the water with AT&T looking to get back into India and launch LTE in partnership as well as a few more European countries joining the LTE group, I stand firm that LTE does not make global sense and RIM is not in a position to cater to the smaller market segments, it was them catering to India and other developing markets that made them fall from grace here. RIM needs a Unified global platform for app developers to develop on, not a US then the world hardware platform.
    07-03-11 09:25 PM
  12. CGI's Avatar
    Apple Announced the iPhone in January of 2007, AND! I justified why I felt RIM didn't have a reason to expect Apps to take the market by storm,
    WHAT industry cues where there that Apps would be a dominating force in the mobile industry in 2006? when looking at the Mobile Phone industry and the computer industry for trends from 2001 through to 2007 the market was NOT looking to be an app driven market, the mobile phone market was very much an email/office document market, in conjunction with PIM, web access was minimal, content consumption was minimal.
    I really am interested at WHAT trends RIM should have been looking to to guess that Apples gamble on an app launching device would be the next big thing 18 months or more before they launched it.

    The playbook hardware quality is/was stellar! almost zero reported light leakage, and a TINY software related recall, which was recalled a testament to quality control is capturing recalls.
    I had a Tour ( 3 actually) only 1 was returned due to a trackball issues, I've returned more LG computer monitors.

    I still don't know outside of the browser where RIM lacks in Multimedia
    You are a fair and balanced contributer here... so I don't think our differences are very far off.

    Storm and Tour were not their best offerings.

    I will say this; I played with a playbook yesterday (again) and it is a nice piece of hardware. It was incomplete on the bridge side and QNX just doesn't have the apps just yet.
    diegonei likes this.
    07-03-11 09:31 PM
  13. diegonei's Avatar
    Really, if RIM hired two or three CB members, and placed them at key positions alongside some project managers, we would see some real change (but give it 6-12 months, change takes time, money and effort).

    Make that four. Add a hater for quality control.
    Last edited by diegonei; 07-03-11 at 11:25 PM.
    Jake Storm and Laura Knotek like this.
    07-03-11 10:31 PM
  14. avt123's Avatar
    And what percentage of them are going to necessarily buy a BlackBerry Smartphone? They aren't going to create another compromise handset for a few limited geographical regions. They make their own handsets, don't license out to a host of manufacturers who can glut the market with impressively spec'd handsets that often have many flaws. Mant folks have switched out because a 'sweet' device wasn't available from their preferred maker at upgrade time. A fair # of them have buyer's remorse because the grass was greener on the other side of the fence, but they'd rather choke on it than admit it tastes nasty.

    Some folks consider escargots a delicacy. I find them a nuisance to be scraped from the bottom of my shoe.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Why not? Just make it dual mode. If you don't want LTE, have the option to just stay CDMA. We have the tech to do it. 4G is marketed on stop. People are definitely falling into the game. If people see 4G on a BB that is just another option they have to compete with the competition.

    Yes they can just not buy a BB, that is always an option. But one feature can make or break a buy.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-03-11 10:59 PM
  15. diegonei's Avatar
    I thought the 99xx could do "4G" HSPA+...
    07-03-11 11:16 PM
  16. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I thought the 99xx could do "4G" HSPA+...
    HSPA+ isn't 4G, the "4G" being referred to in this thread is LTE implementations of 4G, which the Big 2 in the US are planning to roll out nationwide over the course of 2011/2012
    07-03-11 11:21 PM
  17. diegonei's Avatar
    HSPA+ isn't 4G, the "4G" being referred to in this thread is LTE implementations of 4G, which the Big 2 in the US are planning to roll out nationwide over the course of 2011/2012
    From what I heard of the impact of LTE on battery life, I don't think we'll be seeing it on BBs anytime soon... But then again, those phones were packing dual core processors...

    Maybe the 1.2ghz processor + BB power management could do better?
    07-03-11 11:29 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    HSPA+ isn't 4G, the "4G" being referred to in this thread is LTE implementations of 4G, which the Big 2 in the US are planning to roll out nationwide over the course of 2011/2012
    And even the early iterations of LTE do not meet the ITU's standards for 4G, even though this first generation LTE is faster than HSPA+.
    07-03-11 11:36 PM
  19. jerry12's Avatar
    4G LTE will be the main 4G service and if i understand it right GSM will go to LTE.
    07-04-11 01:26 AM
  20. BergerKing's Avatar
    Why not? Just make it dual mode. If you don't want LTE, have the option to just stay CDMA. We have the tech to do it. 4G is marketed on stop. People are definitely falling into the game. If people see 4G on a BB that is just another option they have to compete with the competition.

    Yes they can just not buy a BB, that is always an option. But one feature can make or break a buy.
    Explained in my earlier post, they are not going to compromise size and battery life because the integrated chipset does not yet exist. They aren't going to make a bigger handset to put the extra hardware in the device. The chipsets are under development now, but that won't help this year.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by BergerKing; 07-04-11 at 01:39 AM.
    07-04-11 01:32 AM
  21. BergerKing's Avatar
    4G LTE will be the main 4G service and if i understand it right GSM will go to LTE.
    The GSM and CDMA carriers are both deploying LTE. But at current state 4G is data only. CDMA/GSM will still be using their standard bandwidth for voice, for at minimum, the next few years.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-04-11 01:35 AM
  22. avt123's Avatar
    Explained in my earlier post, they are not going to compromise size and battery life because the integrated chipset does not yet exist. They aren't going to make a bigger handset to put the extra hardware in the device. The chipsets are under development now, but that won't help this year.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Size doesn't seem to be a problem. Bigger devices have been selling for over a year now.

    RIM is just waiting, again.
    howarmat likes this.
    07-04-11 02:17 AM
  23. howarmat's Avatar
    Size doesn't seem to be a problem. Bigger devices have been selling for over a year now.

    RIM is just waiting, again.
    bingo...what is interesting is that we heard RIM had been testing LTE devices a couple years ago already.
    07-04-11 05:57 AM
  24. kbz1960's Avatar
    So is this such a big deal only about RIM or does the apple forum have a thread with people complaining that the next iphone isn't 4g and they are leaving?
    ritesh likes this.
    07-04-11 06:52 AM
  25. howarmat's Avatar
    So is this such a big deal only about RIM or does the apple forum have a thread with people complaining that the next iphone isn't 4g and they are leaving?
    i am sure there are. But i think we are looking at a world capable including all carriers in the US for the next iphone which is great also.
    07-04-11 07:33 AM
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