04-15-11 03:36 PM
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  1. zorba3726's Avatar
    Here's the link-->
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/te...ies/11rim.html
    Last edited by sheshagiripk; 04-10-11 at 06:54 PM. Reason: changing title
    04-10-11 06:51 PM
  2. beandoc's Avatar
    “You’ll find that you don’t have to be all things to all people.” - Balsillie

    Great quote, and true.
    04-10-11 07:01 PM
  3. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Here's a quote from Lazaridis that kinda bugs me, and it's at the very beginning of the article...

    “Why is it that people don’t appreciate our profits? Why is it that people don’t appreciate our growth? Why is it that people don’t appreciate the fact that we spent the last four years going global? Why is it that people don’t appreciate that we have 500 carriers in 170 countries with products in almost 30 languages?”
    I've heard similar from loyal BB consumers as well, and it kinda bugs me. How exactly do those questions apply to the consumer? Does Jane/John Q Public really give a rat's *** about how much money one manufacturer is making or how successful they are? Or does he/she make a purchasing decision based on what they want and what will fill those desires? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

    Now, let us go beyond the consumer and to the investor. Should a current or potential investor make a financial decision based on how much money a corporation is currently raking in? Or do they analyze what the consumer base is opting for/trending towards, and gamble on that?

    As a consumer I couldn't care less how much profit a company is making if their products or services don't meet my current consumer needs. While I am not much of an investor and would never consider giving financial advice, I'd like to think that if I were, I'd be more investing in potential gains based on trends after careful analysis and research towards the future vs current events.

    [edit]I must add, that I like the direction RIM seems to be going at the moment, and I have fingers crossed that they succeed in catching up to the hh market. However it just irks me when they tout how much money they're making. I'm not one to look favorably on a company advertising how they're making money hand over fist in a market where consumers are constantly bombarded with more and higher costs.
    Last edited by rmjones101; 04-10-11 at 07:49 PM.
    04-10-11 07:44 PM
  4. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Great article -- about the most balanced I've seen yet, and in The NY Times, of all places. Thanks for sharing.
    04-10-11 07:47 PM
  5. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Here's a quote from Lazaridis that kinda bugs me, and it's at the very beginning of the article...



    I've heard similar from loyal BB consumers as well, and it kinda bugs me. How exactly do those questions apply to the consumer? Does Jane/John Q Public really give a rat's *** about how much money one manufacturer is making or how successful they are? Or does he/she make a purchasing decision based on what they want and what will fill those desires? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

    Now, let us go beyond the consumer and to the investor. Should a current or potential investor make a financial decision based on how much money a corporation is currently raking in? Or do they analyze what the consumer base is opting for/trending towards, and gamble on that?

    As a consumer I couldn't care less how much profit a company is making if their products or services don't meet my current consumer needs. While I am not much of an investor and would never consider giving financial advice, I'd like to think that if I were, I'd be more investing in potential gains based on trends after careful analysis and research towards the future vs current events.
    On the same note, Jane & John Q could give a rats arse about Open GL, fast processors, firmware upgrades, games for smartphones, etc etc. Whereas people on these forums & others do. So while the latter may be disappointed with RIM's offerings, the former isn't and are quite content.
    04-10-11 07:50 PM
  6. WillieLee's Avatar
    Mr. Lazaridis sums it up at the start of the article. RIM's financial numbers for any other company would be stellar. Even in their sector, Apple is the only company posting better profit and they've been around for a lot longer and have much more experience in building a brand.

    The application argument would have been better if they didn't site a developer who has this posted on his webpage;

    Android & Blackberry apps are comming soon
    . Spelling errors on your pages is not the sign of big business.

    The major developers are onboard with RIM as the EA deal shows. While smaller developers have a place, it hasn't been shown that it's any different than the Shareware explosion of decades past. Shareware was going to take over the world and put major software companies out of business but that never came to pass.

    The comparisons to Palm are always ridiculous. Palm was never a financially stable company. There are always risk in the technology world but RIM just needs to focus on continuing their performance as Mr. Balsillie states. They have to be the only company in history that could make almost $4 billion in profit and got portrayed as being on their deathbed.
    04-10-11 08:00 PM
  7. WillieLee's Avatar
    Here's a quote from Lazaridis that kinda bugs me, and it's at the very beginning of the article...



    I've heard similar from loyal BB consumers as well, and it kinda bugs me. How exactly do those questions apply to the consumer? Does Jane/John Q Public really give a rat's *** about how much money one manufacturer is making or how successful they are? Or does he/she make a purchasing decision based on what they want and what will fill those desires? I think the answer is pretty obvious.
    RIM wouldn't be in the position they are if the consumer wasn't buying their product. So it's a very legitimate point. Are people buying BlackBerry devices because they feel sorry for RIM? Or are they buying them because they want their product?
    04-10-11 08:04 PM
  8. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    On the same note, Jane & John Q could give a rats arse about Open GL, fast processors, firmware upgrades, games for smartphones, etc etc. Whereas people on these forums & others do. So while the latter may be disappointed with RIM's offerings, the former isn't and are quite content.
    Yes, but therein lies the rub... The numbers for each side are changing everyday increasing exponentially, and month after month there are more and more people dissatisfied with RIM/BB.

    Using this forum as a small test sample alone; Each week/month, more and more benign posts quickly degenerate into off topic arguments over which platform is better. It's degenerated to the point that the News & Rumors section would be more accurately named Smartphone Thunderdome. On a larger scale, more and more blogs/supposed-tech-news-sites are increasingly voicing dissatisfaction with Blackberry. It's a phenomenon that can't be easily dismissed.

    I'm not one of the Doom-n-Gloomers predicting the death of RIM. Far from it actually. However; IMHO, RIM could do a lot better by pushing the envelope in competition vs saying "Hey! You may criticize all you want, but we're making money so bugger off." Yes that's an exaggerated statement, but that's the perception they're putting out there. The Co-CEO's of RIM have never been known for thinking before speaking.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    04-10-11 08:08 PM
  9. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Here's a quote from Lazaridis that kinda bugs me, and it's at the very beginning of the article...

    I've heard similar from loyal BB consumers as well, and it kinda bugs me. How exactly do those questions apply to the consumer? Does Jane/John Q Public really give a rat's *** about how much money one manufacturer is making or how successful they are? Or does he/she make a purchasing decision based on what they want and what will fill those desires? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

    Now, let us go beyond the consumer and to the investor. Should a current or potential investor make a financial decision based on how much money a corporation is currently raking in? Or do they analyze what the consumer base is opting for/trending towards, and gamble on that?

    As a consumer I couldn't care less how much profit a company is making if their products or services don't meet my current consumer needs. While I am not much of an investor and would never consider giving financial advice, I'd like to think that if I were, I'd be more investing in potential gains based on trends after careful analysis and research towards the future vs current events.

    [edit]I must add, that I like the direction RIM seems to be going at the moment, and I have fingers crossed that they succeed in catching up to the hh market. However it just irks me when they tout how much money they're making. I'm not one to look favorably on a company advertising how they're making money hand over fist in a market where consumers are constantly bombarded with more cost to the consumer.
    You kind of answered your own question there -- that comment was directed at investors and analysts. And yes, how much money a corporation is raking in usually weighs very heavily on how their stocks are valuated. Stock prices don't climb until a company has demonstrated that its strategies are effective and successful, which is usually immediately following an earnings call reporting particularly strong results and higher-than-expected guidance.

    What's weighing down RIM's stock right now is the latter and how RIM is predicting they will achieve it. Next quarters profit guidance is lower than previous expectations -- right or wrong, investors never like to hear that, no matter what the reason is. RIM is expecting strong results for the rest of the year, with earnings at or exceeding earlier estimates. But how they will attain those earnings is, in the minds of the experts, not a certainty. And investors hate uncertainty even more than lowered guidance.

    First, the PlayBook will have to be very positively received in order to sell the volumes projected by RIM. So far, early impressions of the PlayBook are very positive. But with Apple basically owning the tablet market and a flood of Android tablets coming soon, PlayBook's success is anything but a given. It should do well, but until it's out there, nobody knows if it will do well.

    Second, RIM has to get the next batch of BlackBerry phones out on time, and they have to be able to compete head-to-head with iPhones and Androids. At least in North America, that has not yet happened. Analysts I think are seeing RIM relying too heavily on its global distribution for its better-than-expected profit picture for the past year, and BlackBerry's simply have not performed as well as they would like against their first real smart-phone competition. Again, these phones should do well, but that's an unknown until they are actually out there and their first quarter's sales numbers are in.

    So to answer your gripe, investors look at both what a company has done in the recent past as well as what it plans to do in the immediate future. RIM's recent past is very good, though starting to trend lower, particularly in the area of market share. RIM's immediate future looks promising, but uncertain; until they have demonstrated that this strategy will propel them back to growth that is consistent with their competitors, stock price will continue to take a beating. Likewise, it as high as Apple is flying right now, their stock won't take any kind of significant hit until after someone else comes along and can take a chunk or two out of their insane growth.
    04-10-11 08:09 PM
  10. WillieLee's Avatar
    Yes, but therein lies the rub... The numbers for each side are changing everyday increasing exponentially, and month after month there are more and more people dissatisfied with RIM/BB.

    Using this forum as a small test sample alone; Each week/month, more and more benign posts quickly degenerate into off topic arguments over which platform is better. It's degenerated to the point that the News & Rumors section would be more accurately named Smartphone Thunderdome. On a larger scale, more and more blogs/supposed-tech-news-sites are increasingly voicing dissatisfaction with Blackberry. It's a phenomenon that can't be easily dismissed.
    Go into an Apple forum and you're going to see people complaining about Apple.

    I'm not one of the Doom-n-Gloomers predicting the death of RIM. Far from it actually. However; IMHO, RIM could do a lot better by pushing the envelope in competition vs saying "Hey! You may criticize all you want, but we're making money so bugger off." Yes that's an exaggerated statement, but that's the perception they're putting out there. The Co-CEO's of RIM have never been known for thinking before speaking.
    These are ridiculous statements.
    04-10-11 08:09 PM
  11. sf49ers's Avatar
    The Co-CEO's of RIM have never been known for thinking before speaking.
    I call that bull****
    04-11-11 12:18 AM
  12. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Youll find that you dont have to be all things to all people. - Balsillie

    Great quote, and true.
    The true definition of contentment is that quote. I guess if he's comfortable, that's all we can expect from them. But one has to wonder how one can look into revolutionizing something when one is content.
    04-11-11 12:36 AM
  13. theruined's Avatar
    No other technology company other than Apple has successfully transitioned their platform, Mr. Balsillie said in an interview. Its almost never done, and its way harder than you realize. This transition is where tech companies go to die.
    - Balsille

    Interesting...and I think he has a point because until they can prove they can successfully compete on that level of transition they have no shot. And I honestly think the PB will finally make true that statement (and here we all thought it was the Storm! Boy were we off)

    Here's to second chances!

    *cheers*
    04-11-11 01:59 AM
  14. lnichols's Avatar
    While you don't have to be all things to all people, and no phone is, you do have to be enough things to enough people. RIM is still accomplishing this in low end and emerging markets, but has been losing traction here in the US, which has historically been there largest market. OS6.1 looks promising and the Tablet OS looks very promising. I do think that part of RIM's issues is the messaging coming from the top. Seems to not only confuse the investors, but RIM employees too based on some statements people have heard during Playbook demos/events.
    04-11-11 06:00 AM
  15. DarwinMejia's Avatar
    I don't usually chime in around here but this kinda reminds me of a message I got on bbm last night. A bbm buddy of mine (a girl) who switched to android decided that she missed the bb/bbm experience. After only a week back into using her BB I get this broadcast message:

    "Dear bbm peeps:

    I am sorry to be very misleading. I love the BB life! So addicted & will work my way to come back with a touch screen phone. But for now I must depart and go back to my LG optimus. The apps are better, the graphics, full websites, better youtube vids (David I watch ur dad every morning so that matters! LOL) and yeah its yeah. I am going to miss the way BB spoils me and have to limit my email boxes & manually enter my own calendar events -_- but there happens to be other efficiencies that I can bargain. So to give a real farewell until later... It's been real...
    Fyi... Darwin I cannot master kik!"

    This coming from a BB user for 7 plus years, your "typical" user. Rim needs to make a push, because these typical users are the same people that work in the companies that rim is betting on to continue to use they're platform/phones/tablets. A lot of companies are giving their employess the option as to what phone they use, I see a lot of people giving up they BBs for a iPhone or Android, just cause they can use it as their personal phones. The times of keeping a bb and purchasing a second personal phone are coming to an end, when u have the option of getting a phone (for free) that can meet both personal and professional needs. Idk of many people who would pass up a free phone. So in short, as much as I hate to say it, it seems that the timeline for rim is short. International sales are good and all but take care of home base first.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-11-11 07:57 AM
  16. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Agree with Darwin. And the thing to remember is that when you can't change your product fast enought, what do you do? Well, you turn around and sell it to the person who's never had it before. To them, it won't matter if it's not cutting edge. It's like selling a crossbow to a jungle tribe who's used to using spears and blowdarts. They'll think it's amazing. No one (short of sheer sportsman choice) would pick a crossbow as a hunting weapon when a rifle is available. Same concept... This is why RIM went global with their platform. They needed to buy time and they saw that as their only opportunity.
    04-11-11 10:28 AM
  17. BBMINI's Avatar
    The true definition of contentment is that quote. I guess if he's comfortable, that's all we can expect from them. But one has to wonder how one can look into revolutionizing something when one is content.
    Contentment? Or wisdom in running a global business? I'd say more of the latter. His being smart enough to realize that RIM doesn't need to be everything to all people, and couldn't possibly be even if it tried, doesn't necessarily imply that he's content -- just that he doesn't want RIM to try to be the GM of mobile devices with a brand, style, price range and flavor for every possible person who's interested in a smartphone.

    I think Basillie's comment implies that he understands that the smartphone market is exploding and that RIM isn't going to capture every first-time smartphone customer since everyone from grandmothers to middle-schoolers are getting smartphones these days and they all have different mixes of wants and needs. Some want a gazillion apps and incredible graphics and video, others want excellent communication capabilities above everything, others want games galore or excellent security, etc. To me the most certain way to kill RIM quickly would be to think that they could and should try to maintain their once-overwhelming marketshare by offering a BB that would make every type of customer happy.

    His Co-CEO, Lazaridis, also said the following: I dont fully understand why theres this negative sentiment, and I just dont have the time to battle it. Because in the end, what Ive learned is youve just got to prove it over and over and over. With this in mind, I'm assuming both guys understand that goodwill and brand loyalty only last but for so long before customers begin asking "What have you done for me lately?" (which, I'd say many BB fans and CB users have clearly already begun doing), so RIM has to confirm again that it's still a major player by pushing the boundaries and responding to the market, whether it's by turning RIM into a niche-focused business within the smartphone world or by trying to introduce an industry game-changer to bring back the throngs who are currently abandoning the BB ship. I guess we'll see what happens . . .
    04-11-11 10:55 AM
  18. BBMINI's Avatar
    From this NYT article: "But it is increasingly common to find people who carry a BlackBerry for e-mail and an iPhone for everything else."

    This surprised me since I've never heard of this or seen anyone doing it. I have friends who have company-issued BBs that they have to use, but they also carry an iPhone as their personal preference, but who would choose to pay for two data plans so they could use BB for email and an iPhone for everything else? And who would put up with the hassle of dealing with two devices all the time? That claim seems a bit illogical and questionable to me.
    04-11-11 11:02 AM
  19. howarmat's Avatar
    From this NYT article: "But it is increasingly common to find people who carry a BlackBerry for e-mail and an iPhone for everything else."

    This surprised me since I've never heard of this or seen anyone doing it. I have friends who have company-issued BBs that they have to use, but they also carry an iPhone as their personal preference, but who would choose to pay for two data plans so they could use BB for email and an iPhone for everything else? And who would put up with the hassle of dealing with two devices all the time? That claim seems a bit illogical and questionable to me.
    many people have a work/personal split which might be what he means. People have berries for their business stuff and the iphone/android device for the personal line and fun stuff. makes sense to me if you need/want 2 seperate lines
    04-11-11 11:17 AM
  20. BBMINI's Avatar
    many people have a work/personal split which might be what he means.
    Yep, I'm assuming that's the case.
    04-11-11 11:35 AM
  21. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Contentment? Or wisdom in running a global business? I'd say more of the latter. His being smart enough to realize that RIM doesn't need to be everything to all people, and couldn't possibly be even if it tried, doesn't necessarily imply that he's content -- just that he doesn't want RIM to try to be the GM of mobile devices with a brand, style, price range and flavor for every possible person who's interested in a smartphone.

    I think Basillie's comment implies that he understands that the smartphone market is exploding and that RIM isn't going to capture every first-time smartphone customer since everyone from grandmothers to middle-schoolers are getting smartphones these days and they all have different mixes of wants and needs. Some want a gazillion apps and incredible graphics and video, others want excellent communication capabilities above everything, others want games galore or excellent security, etc. To me the most certain way to kill RIM quickly would be to think that they could and should try to maintain their once-overwhelming marketshare by offering a BB that would make every type of customer happy.

    His Co-CEO, Lazaridis, also said the following: I dont fully understand why theres this negative sentiment, and I just dont have the time to battle it. Because in the end, what Ive learned is youve just got to prove it over and over and over. With this in mind, I'm assuming both guys understand that goodwill and brand loyalty only last but for so long before customers begin asking "What have you done for me lately?" (which, I'd say many BB fans and CB users have clearly already begun doing), so RIM has to confirm again that it's still a major player by pushing the boundaries and responding to the market, whether it's by turning RIM into a niche-focused business within the smartphone world or by trying to introduce an industry game-changer to bring back the throngs who are currently abandoning the BB ship. I guess we'll see what happens . . .
    Unfortunately, that's exactly what RIM was trying to be in the past. That's why they make 50 billion different BBs.
    04-11-11 11:37 AM
  22. BBMINI's Avatar
    Unfortunately, that's exactly what RIM was trying to be in the past. That's why they make 50 billion different BBs.
    Good point. It's definitely confusing as to why RIM needs to churn out so many different models when the essence of their machines remains very similar (which maybe is part of their PR problem, eh?).

    Still, I was thinking more of whether RIM should try to appeal to each user's demographics and desired experiences rather than focusing on a target market they can serve well as the entire industry grows and brings in more and different customers. Should RIM remain communications focused for businesspeople or try to ensure awesome gaming for high-schoolers (sorry for the gross generalization for effect) or push to appeal to senior citizens with the easiest-to-use device (another generalization for effect)?

    The ongoing threat (both in perception and reality, I suspect) will be that many would argue that Apple and various Droid machines are already successfully appealing to, and serving, all of these different groups with single devices as evidenced by various brand name businesses moving from BB to other platforms for their corporate use. So should RIM try to become a "me-too" company that emulates all of iPhone's and Droid's features and functionalities so all of the phones displayed at Verizon's store are essentially the same user experience but with different brand names on the devices? If so, how much of RIM's current and well-established BB functionality should be abandoned in order to be more like the other brands? Should they give up the LED? Move primarily to touch screens? Accept shorter battery life? Possibly alienate and lose their longstanding users/customer base (which they're arguably already doing) in order to gain sales with a broader market?

    To me these are all interesting questions. I certainly don't have answers and I have no idea what RIM will do as it continues its battle in the smartphone market, but to me it'll be fascinating to watch. Regardless of what happens, I suspect that someday it will make a worthwhile case study for MBA students learning about niche versus mass marketing, the evolution of growth industries, and how companies try to differentiate themselves among competitors.
    04-11-11 12:16 PM
  23. valorian's Avatar
    “No other technology company other than Apple has successfully transitioned their platform,” Mr. Balsillie said in an interview. “It’s almost never done, and it’s way harder than you realize. This transition is where tech companies go to die.”
    This was the part that caught my attention. Will QNX be the return on RIM or it's downfall?
    04-11-11 12:19 PM
  24. 1magine's Avatar
    On the same note, Jane & John Q could give a rats arse about Open GL, fast processors, firmware upgrades, games for smartphones, etc etc. Whereas people on these forums & others do. So while the latter may be disappointed with RIM's offerings, the former isn't and are quite content.

    Not exactly true CX. The average consumer wouldn't know open gl from an open door, its true. But the 18-25 y.o. kids who are buying these handhelds up, know whether they can play a game they want. Heck even my 9 y.o. asks me when we watch TV together, why does nobody have a BB program? (Most news shows, tv programs actually have an android and an I-phone app). Even my wife who knew so little she happily took my Storm 9530 last year when I bought the 9550, is frustrated at how little she can do compared to our neighbors , friends and even my eldest son's DI. In the (sort of) words of the Chief Justice, Consumers may not know what it is, but they know what they like.
    04-11-11 12:25 PM
  25. 1magine's Avatar
    RIM wouldn't be in the position they are if the consumer wasn't buying their product. So it's a very legitimate point. Are people buying BlackBerry devices because they feel sorry for RIM? Or are they buying them because they want their product?
    A large section are buying them because they are forced to, through government or firm requirements. Hence BES users, I believe somewhere near 50%. That's alot of forced buying.
    04-11-11 12:29 PM
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