03-26-11 10:08 AM
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  1. K Bear's Avatar
    Look at the post here, the BB fanbois are the same, and they are flocking to, or sticking with old technology that is offering far less than the modern devices have. They even have the audacity to accuse one of being a "troll" if you disagree with their view of the world. At least Apple has the smarts to design devices for all the "Joe Shmo's" of the world and give them what they want.
    Thus is the reason for consumer driven devices (iPhone, Android) vs. business devices ( Palm, WP7, Blackberry). Right now, consumers are driving the market while the business driven devices are struggling for consumer mindshare. Joe Shmo and the middle class are being ignored by the business devices.
    03-19-11 03:31 PM
  2. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    THat's one of the best policies on BES, being able to block all the vendor added junk. As soon as I do an Enterprise Activation on a new device, all of those things disappear.

    I also try to go through and change the Theme to something besides the carrier default. They are awful. On the OS6 devices, there's no other themes out of the box, but I at least change the wallpaper to something more palatable.
    03-19-11 04:10 PM
  3. K Bear's Avatar
    THat's one of the best policies on BES, being able to block all the vendor added junk. As soon as I do an Enterprise Activation on a new device, all of those things disappear.

    I also try to go through and change the Theme to something besides the carrier default. They are awful. On the OS6 devices, there's no other themes out of the box, but I at least change the wallpaper to something more palatable.
    Carrier employers on an employee plan and third party retailers on a dealer line also do not have bloatware pushed onto their devices also.
    03-19-11 04:25 PM
  4. chuckh0308's Avatar
    Look at the post here, the BB fanbois are the same, and they are flocking to, or sticking with old technology that is offering far less than the modern devices have. They even have the audacity to accuse one of being a "troll" if you disagree with their view of the world. At least Apple has the smarts to design devices for all the "Joe Shmo's" of the world and give them what they want.
    Correction; Apple doesn't give people what they want, they are masters of convincing people that what they are giving them is what they want. That doesn't work for some of us, and some others are starting to figure it out.
    03-19-11 05:53 PM
  5. dkingsf's Avatar
    I agree with lots of the latest replies. People want better specs. And they're surely coming. But RIM isn't HTC and isn't going to put out a device(ThunderBolt) that has 4-6hrs of battery life at best. RIM has their priorities straight. Thing is they don't line up with everyone else's. That's when you find a different device that suits YOU.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Using an iPhone to moderate a BB Forum completely eliminates all credibility for the moderator - IMO. Especially since you portend to be Blackberry supporter and are always telling us "it's coming soon, stay loyal, stay focused, stay Blackberry".


    Just sayin'............
    03-19-11 06:20 PM
  6. The_Engine's Avatar
    Dang, I HATE painting!!! With a passion. CB is a much better option, although your wife may feel differently. Lol

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yeah. The blackberry was baned for several hours.

    Done now but have to catch up.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-19-11 06:34 PM
  7. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Using an iPhone to moderate a BB Forum completely eliminates all credibility for the moderator - IMO. Especially since you portend to be Blackberry supporter and are always telling us "it's coming soon, stay loyal, stay focused, stay Blackberry".


    Just sayin'............
    Do they make everyone working for Ferrari drive one to work? I think not. Why should they make moderators here use BB devices? A good moderator is a good moderator regardless of their personal choice for a phone or anything else for that matter.
    03-19-11 06:42 PM
  8. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Do they make everyone working for Ferrari drive one to work? I think not. Why should they make moderators here use BB devices? A good moderator is a good moderator regardless of their personal choice for a phone or anything else for that matter.
    Thanks. I use all kinds of devices and have for years. It doesn't make me any different. Kevin just got an iPad2(as did I), it doesn't change him. Bla1ze uses and blogs at Android Central. It's just the way it is. My loyalty is still with RIM. Can't please everyone.
    03-19-11 06:51 PM
  9. dooodads's Avatar
    Correction; Apple doesn't give people what they want, they are masters of convincing people that what they are giving them is what they want. That doesn't work for some of us, and some others are starting to figure it out.
    Perfect time for Ford quote:
    "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford

    Sometimes you just have to do your own vision rather than cater to all the things people are asking for. If consumers like it they'll learn to like your vision as well and hop aboard. As soon as they stop liking it they will jump off. Apple is doing the right thing.

    Also who honestly gives a flying **** what phone the moderators use, lol. Oh no he uses a great phone that's not a blackberry, guess we can't take him seriously. In fact I think it lends more credibility to them because it makes them seem less like fanboys.
    03-19-11 07:12 PM
  10. The_Engine's Avatar
    I PAY people to paint, I haven't actually painted in years and years, and I got a "fixer upper" house in 2007, almost every room needed painting
    I hate painting but have gotten pretty good at it and wouldnt trust some one else to do a decent job. Painted my house completely 2 times with a couple of rooms a third time.

    Now, tomorrow I have someone coming to sheet rock and spackle a 3 by 5 foot hole from a leak from all the rain and snow. That is work I gladly pay for.

    House is almost ready to sell.

    Then maybe I can get a new phone. : )

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-19-11 07:43 PM
  11. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Perfect time for Ford quote:
    "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford

    Sometimes you just have to do your own vision rather than cater to all the things people are asking for. If consumers like it they'll learn to like your vision as well and hop aboard. As soon as they stop liking it they will jump off. Apple is doing the right thing.

    Also who honestly gives a flying **** what phone the moderators use, lol. Oh no he uses a great phone that's not a blackberry, guess we can't take him seriously. In fact I think it lends more credibility to them because it makes them seem less like fanboys.
    Man, that is just perfect.
    03-19-11 08:39 PM
  12. jebulls's Avatar
    Thanks. I use all kinds of devices and have for years. It doesn't make me any different. Kevin just got an iPad2(as did I), it doesn't change him. Bla1ze uses and blogs at Android Central. It's just the way it is. My loyalty is still with RIM. Can't please everyone.
    My Question is.....the upcoming Bold Touch.....will this be a good enough device to put down that iphone?
    03-19-11 09:23 PM
  13. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Surprised about Samsung?? Really? You must not own many of their devices. Their customer service is abysmal. That and their lack of product support as you mentioned.

    While technically RIM is at the bottom, there's others right there with them. The fact the margin is so close is my point. On the other hand, you may survey how ever many people again and come up with different results. This isn't the end all be all.
    LOL I agree. Using "they're right there with Samsung" as an excuse just displays how clueless some people are. Samsung is probably one of the worst companies when it comes to Software Quality and Customer Support. Their hardware is good, but that ceases to matter after the customer gets the device - at that point the experience is down down down into an abyss.

    This goes for all of their products. From phones to computers to bluray players to refrigerators and televisions. Samsung is terrible.

    The fact that RIM is below Samsung is actually the suprising part, seeing how bad Samsung is.
    03-20-11 02:21 AM
  14. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Only surprised by Samsung being low because they are peddling android same as htc and Motorola.

    While you have a fair point about how close the bottom teir is, RIM is still last, and effectively at THE bottom.

    And I hate to say it but dismissing a report like this is the exact attitude that I think has RIM in trouble. The playbook does look impressive but it no longer has a huge edge in hardware and the software is untried. It alone won't pull rim from the bottom. I think 6.1 software and hardware has promise, but they need it out now and it has to launch clean. I just don't think that will happen with a BB OS. There will be some glaring issues. Sure every platform has them. Look at the TB. But rim can't afford that now. They haven't grown a bazillion % the last few years and losing customer satisfaction and Mindshare is going to hurt them.

    I like all that RIM has done with acquistions and where they seem to be going, but the time is now to stand and deliver. IPhone 5 is coming, the android army is marching. RIM can't close out 2011 on the same slide they were on in 2010.

    I think many of us are sick of hearing about how things will change and all that. STFU and deliver.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Android can't save you from bad customer support and terrible programming, which samsung is quite known for. They also had to deal with several manufacturing/stock defects that affected their devices, like hardware locked Vibrants (and other Galaxy S models) that forced users to get exchanges (sometimes for worse quality refurbs) due to not being able to factory reset the phones.

    Samsung's Windows Mobile phones were pretty bad as well, and the Focus is the WP7 device that is having tons of problems with updates because Samsung used older firmware versions for release phones.

    Samsung peddles WP7, Bada, Symbian, Android, and still have a couple WM6.5 phones being sold. Think it's time to look at the broader picture here...
    03-20-11 02:25 AM
  15. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Samsung probably took a beating over the delay on 2.2 in the US (Canada had it way before you guys) and the i9000M debacle in Canada. As a victim of the faulty boards, it was a pain in the *** to deal with at the time, but now that it's fixed, my Samsung is bar none the best phone I have ever owned. Ever. Ever ever ever.

    Samsung won me back.
    The 2.2 Delay was an issue, but that came after...:

    1. Faulty GPS (still not fixed)
    2. High End Phone that lags worse than a 6 year old BB/WM5-6.5 device
    3. Hardware Locks phones unable to enter Recovery mode without being rooted (Mac users S.O.L.)
    4. Terribad battery life compared even to an Evo with 4G turned on at times (phone dies after 3 hours, even if you just factory reset it and didn't install any rogue 3rd party applications)
    5. Captivates Randomly Rebooting (Still unfixed)
    6. Phones being bricked by maintenance updates (UVJI6 for Vibrant, e.g.)
    7. Phone advertised as having 512 RAM but due to them using a non-shared GPU RAM architecture it effectively only has ~384MB RAM (only < 200 MB free after a reboot and Level 2 MEM Clear) - this causes some ridiculous lag issues in some games even though it had the best GPU on the market when it was released.

    The 2.2 delay was just icing on the cake, and people were in such an uproar because Samsung kept opening their mouths and giving "hints" at release dates and then skipping over them - by months - while other manufacturers (HTC and Motorola) rolled out 2.2 for their high end models (Evo, Droid X, etc.) within a couple months of release and were releasing their new phones with 2.2 (Samsung was still releasing new models with 2.1).

    In addition to that, stuff like Audio while docked for these phones needed Android 2.2 to function, so some people were pissed that they brought $40+ accessories that didn't fully function for their phones due to laggy software update cycles.

    There were tons of problems with the Galaxy S phones. The Reps in T-Mobile stores stopped pushing this phone almost completely the minute the G2 was released - at least in this area and about a 100 mile radius of me.

    Verizon never really pushed the Fascinate (they're big on Moto and HTC, though). AT&T and Sprint had no choice but to push the Epic/Captivate because AT&T had no other high end Android phonse and, apart from the Evo and Epic, Sprint's smartphone repetoire was exceedingly weak compared to all the other major carriers (embarrasingly so). But even then, the Epic had some of hte same issues as the other Galaxy S phones, lag, a keyboard that skips letters, ridiculous battery draining that's exceedingly hard to troubleshoot, etc.

    Well, one good thing I can say is that the Galaxy S phones have great reception and the speakers are really good in them - at least compared to HTC phones.

    But their QA and Customer Support is terribad. Do me once, shame on you. Do me twice, ... Nevermind, that won't happen - ever. Ever ever ever...
    Last edited by N8ter; 03-20-11 at 02:39 AM.
    03-20-11 02:34 AM
  16. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    If the organic fertilizer is gonna hit the ventilation system anyplace then I hope that the place is RIM's marketing department. For sure these guys need a major shakup.

    RIM is far too slow to react to what the current market needs. It's OS is geared to its old traditional market of non-tech corporate users. OK, this makes all BlackBerrys very similar and east to use but this comes ate the expense of modern features.

    The hardware styling of BlackBerrys is very, very good but this has not significantly changed in years. I just pulkled out my old 7290 and put it alongside a 9780. Yes there was a clear difference but it was obvious that both phones were made by RIM. I think this is the problem. Many people are just bored with the "sameness" of RIM's offerings. Sometimes you just want a change.

    I would be interested to know what criteria were applied to reach the survey's conclusions. What are users disatisfied with? Reliabilty, Cosmetics, Functionality, Support.

    What questions did the survey ask? This is critical to the validity of such market surverys. That said, I too hold JD Power in high esteem.
    No, not at all. For me, it was the faulty keyboard on the 9780 I and many others recieved. You only get once chance with me. Ask RIM, and as Samsung.

    And since I'm many people's "geek to call," I will happily herd them to other types of smartphones because I don't want to have to deal with their problems when they get a faulty phone and decide to call me first because I had one and recommended it to them (and therefore should know how to fix it, you know how it goes).
    03-20-11 02:43 AM
  17. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    My Question is.....the upcoming Bold Touch.....will this be a good enough device to put down that iphone?
    Well, I don't necessarily use other devices because I'm not content with BlackBerry. In this industry, it's good to stay familiar with the competition. However, I will say I love the i4. As for the Bold Touch, I've used it and like it very much. It could definitely be my daily driver over any others. Thing is, right now, doesn't matter the Platform, there is no "one device does it all" for me. Each provide a little something the others don't. However the BT, comes very close. I hope this makes sense to you. )

    LOL I agree. Using "they're right there with Samsung" as an excuse just displays how clueless some people are. Samsung is probably one of the worst companies when it comes to Software Quality and Customer Support. Their hardware is good, but that ceases to matter after the customer gets the device - at that point the experience is down down down into an abyss.

    This goes for all of their products. From phones to computers to bluray players to refrigerators and televisions. Samsung is terrible.

    The fact that RIM is below Samsung is actually the surprising part, seeing how bad Samsung is.
    I agree. Sammy is horrible regarding customer service. And pushing out updates for their devices. As for RIM, we all know they're behind the competition a bit, but it's delicate. And those polls are subjective as well. 2011 will be a telling year at RIM. It's not make it or break it time. Far from that actually. But it is time for the tough to get going.
    03-20-11 09:01 AM
  18. The_Engine's Avatar
    I knew Sammy was bad but just figured they would get a bump because of android. Guess not.

    Lots of Sammy hate out here.

    Anyone know if Monaco will be 4g on vzw?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-20-11 10:52 AM
  19. grover5's Avatar
    The 2.2 Delay was an issue, but that came after...:

    1. Faulty GPS (still not fixed)
    2. High End Phone that lags worse than a 6 year old BB/WM5-6.5 device
    3. Hardware Locks phones unable to enter Recovery mode without being rooted (Mac users S.O.L.)
    4. Terribad battery life compared even to an Evo with 4G turned on at times (phone dies after 3 hours, even if you just factory reset it and didn't install any rogue 3rd party applications)
    5. Captivates Randomly Rebooting (Still unfixed)
    6. Phones being bricked by maintenance updates (UVJI6 for Vibrant, e.g.)
    7. Phone advertised as having 512 RAM but due to them using a non-shared GPU RAM architecture it effectively only has ~384MB RAM (only < 200 MB free after a reboot and Level 2 MEM Clear) - this causes some ridiculous lag issues in some games even though it had the best GPU on the market when it was released.

    The 2.2 delay was just icing on the cake, and people were in such an uproar because Samsung kept opening their mouths and giving "hints" at release dates and then skipping over them - by months - while other manufacturers (HTC and Motorola) rolled out 2.2 for their high end models (Evo, Droid X, etc.) within a couple months of release and were releasing their new phones with 2.2 (Samsung was still releasing new models with 2.1).

    In addition to that, stuff like Audio while docked for these phones needed Android 2.2 to function, so some people were pissed that they brought $40+ accessories that didn't fully function for their phones due to laggy software update cycles.

    There were tons of problems with the Galaxy S phones. The Reps in T-Mobile stores stopped pushing this phone almost completely the minute the G2 was released - at least in this area and about a 100 mile radius of me.

    Verizon never really pushed the Fascinate (they're big on Moto and HTC, though). AT&T and Sprint had no choice but to push the Epic/Captivate because AT&T had no other high end Android phonse and, apart from the Evo and Epic, Sprint's smartphone repetoire was exceedingly weak compared to all the other major carriers (embarrasingly so). But even then, the Epic had some of hte same issues as the other Galaxy S phones, lag, a keyboard that skips letters, ridiculous battery draining that's exceedingly hard to troubleshoot, etc.

    Well, one good thing I can say is that the Galaxy S phones have great reception and the speakers are really good in them - at least compared to HTC phones.

    But their QA and Customer Support is terribad. Do me once, shame on you. Do me twice, ... Nevermind, that won't happen - ever. Ever ever ever...
    My GF has a Vibrant. The GPS not working and the lag are the 2 biggest complaints she has. It freezes on her at times as well which requires a battery pull. Customer support is a no show. We won't buy Samsung again.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-20-11 11:09 AM
  20. bighap's Avatar
    Anyone know if Monaco will be 4g on vzw?
    Doesn't sound like it. Plus the current LTE radios add substantial bulk. The Monaco is looking very thin.
    03-20-11 11:20 AM
  21. K Bear's Avatar
    It probably won't be until next year that we'll see 4G devices from RIM. Given their track record, they'll wait until the 4G networks are more mature to release 4G devices.
    03-20-11 11:28 AM
  22. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Yeah, Sammy being really low seems good to me. Almost all the points have been laid out here, but I had an S5600 which the touch screen just plain and utter sucked monkey nuts! I wanted to kill myself during those 2 weeks I had the device. Needless to say I was happy to get the Nokia 5800 to replace the Sammy. Then the 5800 was faulty, so I jumped onto BlackBerry. Now the BlackBerry devices have worked. Surprised me that RIM are dead bottom. I know their battery life is an issue (I have to charge my Torch 2+ times a day with little to no usage, and I've had it just over a week. I also bought the Torch first hand, not second hand.)
    03-20-11 06:19 PM
  23. esvee's Avatar
    Until apple comes out with a stronger iOS that can be customized..i am back to my 9700!
    03-20-11 08:28 PM
  24. jebulls's Avatar
    Until apple comes out with a stronger iOS that can be customized..i am back to my 9700!
    Because BB is so easily customized Does the 9700 seem really slow coming back from an iphone??
    03-20-11 10:01 PM
  25. jvic31's Avatar
    I really don't think Berries are any less 'satisfactory' than they were 5 years ago, but if you look at what has happened in 5 years (well, just over 4 years ago anyway) with the industry, and then you look again at a blackberry, you can see why satisfaction is so low. Is that a Palm Treo? No one from 2005 would bat an eye at a berry, it's exactly the same. You had Apple come out with their phone, and it really was a quantum leap ahead. Then Google and a bunch of other companies came out with some very similar phones (though that battery life and clunky OS does not appeal to me) and RIM just sits on their hands. The phones aren't any worse, but they are no better either. They should reflect the progress that has occurred in the rest of the industry.
    03-20-11 11:55 PM
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