04-06-11 08:51 AM
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  1. i7guy's Avatar
    you say bashing, I say voicing frustration.....there we go again....very transparent in your rhetoric.....


    I have 2 BB's and 1 droid as ive said ~500x. I love BB and always have but they are slacking right now and have been for a few years. The form factor cant be beat but right now they are way behind the competition in terms of performance. When you pay $30 for a data plan, you want to be able to extract data in a reasonable amount of time. I am hoping the bold touch changes everything that has been bad with rim the last few years. We'll see. The fact it doesnt have a front facing camera is a mistake with todays kids and users who want a full media experience.
    1. I don't have any issue extract data.
    2. Not all kids are bought into facetime.
    3. In April of 2011, I agree RIM does not have competitive offerings.
    4. Because #3 is true, doesn't mean my BB isn't a work horse to do what I need to do. The S2 is a tank, I have dropped it on concrete and other than some scratches it's still kicking.
    5. There is no other phone that will do a better job for the core of what I need a smartphone for. Mhz is not my answer, reliability and ease of use are.
    04-05-11 09:53 AM
  2. i7guy's Avatar
    I can give examples, if you'd like.

    Sent screaming from my ThunderBolt at 4G speeds.
    Please do.

    Sent from my tethered laptop typed at 100wpm.
    04-05-11 09:54 AM
  3. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    1. I don't have any issue extract data.
    2. Not all kids are bought into facetime.
    3. In April of 2011, I agree RIM does not have competitive offerings.
    4. Because #3 is true, doesn't mean my BB isn't a work horse to do what I need to do. The S2 is a tank, I have dropped it on concrete and other than some scratches it's still kicking.
    5. There is no other phone that will do a better job for the core of what I need a smartphone for. Mhz is not my answer, reliability and ease of use are.
    1. Surely there's an app for that?
    2. I agree, a lot of my friends have 0 interest in FaceTime.
    3. True. Android phones do look 32194239834893458943589345894598456894659845698456 890645089x better than the best RIM offering (intended mega-exaggeration)
    4. True. I've dropped my BB Torch in the toilet, super-karate-chopped it a few times, and it still works. I've also dropped it on concrete. Minor bezel scratching, it works.
    5. The iPhone might work for you unless you use BlackBerry Presenter and/or BlackBerry Stereo Gateway.
    04-05-11 09:59 AM
  4. i7guy's Avatar
    1. Surely there's an app for that?
    2. I agree, a lot of my friends have 0 interest in FaceTime.
    3. True. Android phones do look 32194239834893458943589345894598456894659845698456 890645089x better than the best RIM offering (intended mega-exaggeration)
    4. True. I've dropped my BB Torch in the toilet, super-karate-chopped it a few times, and it still works. I've also dropped it on concrete. Minor bezel scratching, it works.
    5. The iPhone might work for you unless you use BlackBerry Presenter and/or BlackBerry Stereo Gateway.
    Very true. However, I'm still left wondering how much more my quality of work life will be if I spent the money and extended my contract to get the iphone.

    My problem is, it will be an even swap for what I need the phone for. If I had to get a new phone in this very instant it would be the iphone however.
    04-05-11 10:08 AM
  5. qbnkelt's Avatar
    You know, I'm having a good experience with my Atrix.
    Notifications are weak, battery life seems to vary and I don't like how Gmail handles emails onto threads or the fact that your most recent email doesn't pop in your screen like when I take my BB out of the holster.....oh, and it forced the upgrade through WiFi which meant I had to sit at Union Station to get it, but it's actually a nice alternative to the iPhone.
    Won't replace my BB, but it gives me a nice change.
    Next time I'll get an iPhone.....AFTER I get my new BBerries!
    04-05-11 10:46 AM
  6. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Ladies and gentlemen, Exhibit A.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    67Tucker has actually been quite a staunch defender of Blackberries on this forum. I think he's the completely wrong person to pick on... You are very transparent :P
    04-05-11 12:39 PM
  7. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    1. I don't have any issue extract data.
    Yes you do, it's not really an issue. You're just at a deficit compared to other smartphone platforms. Blackberries have terrible browsers compared to others and they aren't really good media devices. YouTube, etc. sucks on their small/low rez screens. He shouldn't have said extract data. It's more a function of getting as much value out of your data plan as you can, and WebOS/Android/iOS/WP7 even Windows Mobile (with it's better devices i.e. HD7) are much better at this than Blackberry. Blackberries are very popular in areas where data plans are not unlimited and have low limits due to compression. They're very popular among people who don't want to pay for unlimited SMS as well. In places where there are large clusters of BB users, it's worth it to get one. Otherwise most of its benefits go unused.

    2. Not all kids are bought into facetime.
    Kids don't use iOS/Android devices for video chat. They use it cause those smartphones give them similar capabilities to a computer when it comes to browsing and media. Those phones also have way better cameras with HD video recording on them... The better video cams are more of a factor to these kids than a FFC. They love shooting video...

    3. In April of 2011, I agree RIM does not have competitive offerings.
    RIM hasn't had a competitive offering in years. That's the issue. Some people are getting a bit impatient. Tons of people, even on this forum, are using old as **** blackberries, when they really shouldn't have to do that, but that's what happens when you're behind and your 2 generations old blackberry is better than the new ones...

    4. Because #3 is true, doesn't mean my BB isn't a work horse to do what I need to do. The S2 is a tank, I have dropped it on concrete and other than some scratches it's still kicking.
    The thread is about teenagers. Then don't care about work horses, and can you define work horse... Blackberry doesn't even support ActiveSync so if you don't have BES/BESX deployed on an Exchange server it doesn't work at all. The other phone platforms do... Teenagers can get their Hotmail/GMail pushed to them lit little issues on iOS/WebOS/WP7/Android. Blackberry is quasi-pushed for consumer email.

    5. There is no other phone that will do a better job for the core of what I need a smartphone for. Mhz is not my answer, reliability and ease of use are.
    This thread was not about your needs in a smartphone, and there are phones that do a better job. You just don't want to believe it. The facts speak for themselves. Spare us another "How many emails do I send? How many BBM contacts do I have? How much do I type on my phone? How often do I use UMA? etc. etc." barRAGE like the chick upthread who thought her 5 family members could change the blackberry landscape "down here."

    Ciao.
    04-05-11 12:49 PM
  8. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    You know, I'm having a good experience with my Atrix.
    Notifications are weak, battery life seems to vary and I don't like how Gmail handles emails onto threads or the fact that your most recent email doesn't pop in your screen like when I take my BB out of the holster.....oh, and it forced the upgrade through WiFi which meant I had to sit at Union Station to get it, but it's actually a nice alternative to the iPhone.
    Won't replace my BB, but it gives me a nice change.
    Next time I'll get an iPhone.....AFTER I get my new BBerries!
    I don't like Android Notifications at all. I think they are weak, and I think Blackberry Notifications are worse - graphically speaking. All Blackberries have a Notification light (All Android phones don't), so there can be an Advantage there if you go through the trouble of configuring them.

    But I prefer a decent pop-up notification with a graphical ticker. All platforms have the ticker. Blackberry doesn't have popups for most things (not decent popups). Android scrolls text in the notification bar with is terrible, and keeps the notificatiosn in the drop-down bar (which is good, BB does something similar). iOS' notifications give me a headache. WP7 has the best pop-up notifications and Live Tiles are good for the ticker, but Microsoft forgot a way for you to get to the notifications if you didn't see them pop up... Bummer?

    WebOS notifications are perfect, but the current phones are crap...
    04-05-11 12:58 PM
  9. i7guy's Avatar
    Yes you do, it's not really an issue. You're just at a deficit compared to other smartphone platforms. Blackberries have terrible browsers compared to others and they aren't really good media devices. YouTube, etc. sucks on their small/low rez screens. He shouldn't have said extract data. It's more a function of getting as much value out of your data plan as you can, and WebOS/Android/iOS/WP7 even Windows Mobile (with it's better devices i.e. HD7) are much better at this than Blackberry. Blackberries are very popular in areas where data plans are not unlimited and have low limits due to compression. They're very popular among people who don't want to pay for unlimited SMS as well. In places where there are large clusters of BB users, it's worth it to get one. Otherwise most of its benefits go unused.

    1. I get a lot of value out of my data plan, and I use my phone to support my business and make money. I could care less about browsing and youtube on a small screen device.

    Kids don't use iOS/Android devices for video chat. They use it cause those smartphones give them similar capabilities to a computer when it comes to browsing and media. Those phones also have way better cameras with HD video recording on them... The better video cams are more of a factor to these kids than a FFC. They love shooting video...

    1. They have slightly better cameras, but so what? The camera on the BB works just fine.

    RIM hasn't had a competitive offering in years. That's the issue. Some people are getting a bit impatient. Tons of people, even on this forum, are using old as **** blackberries, when they really shouldn't have to do that, but that's what happens when you're behind and your 2 generations old blackberry is better than the new ones...

    1. Last year they were competitive, but need new product offerings. They are coming. The consumer end use BBs because they want to not because they have to. Unless all you do is surf the web, a BB works just fine.

    The thread is about teenagers. Then don't care about work horses, and can you define work horse... Blackberry doesn't even support ActiveSync so if you don't have BES/BESX deployed on an Exchange server it doesn't work at all. The other phone platforms do... Teenagers can get their Hotmail/GMail pushed to them lit little issues on iOS/WebOS/WP7/Android. Blackberry is quasi-pushed for consumer email.

    1. I know what teenagers care about, every parent does. They care about texting. Which is why BB keyboard phones are oh so popular. They don't give a hoot about push, pull, shove or anything else. Email is almost secondary.


    This thread was not about your needs in a smartphone, and there are phones that do a better job. You just don't want to believe it. The facts speak for themselves. Spare us another "How many emails do I send? How many BBM contacts do I have? How much do I type on my phone? How often do I use UMA? etc. etc." barRAGE like the chick upthread who thought her 5 family members could change the blackberry landscape "down here."

    1. This thread also isn't about your sole opinion about your interperation of the device penetration of mobile handsets in HS. What facts are you referring to? There are no facts here, only some idiotic surveys and ill-formed opinions on top of the surveys. I'm still waiting for a decent "fact" to emerge relating to the topic. So please spare us your opinion, since you asked me to spare mine.

    Ciao.
    See above. Shalom.
    04-05-11 01:03 PM
  10. i7guy's Avatar
    Texting is king with teens as every poll, article and blog has researched the email topic to death. Teens dont use email. its that simple. Once you research what phones teens are using and gravitating towards, you will see the physical keyboards are becoming less and less important. Even though its still somewhat important, its not the BB's they are using.....its droid 2's and any other slider phone with a physical keyboard. Only 2% of teens are using BB's out of the 20% that use smartphones.

    Shalom to you as well
    When you look keyboards seem to be very important. We are not talking about some survey, we are talking about what teenagers actually say to me.

    1. Blackberry
    2. iphone
    3. Droid

    So again, since you cannot speak for the masses why don't admit you don't "really" know outside of your tiny enclave what goes on in the real world.
    04-05-11 01:12 PM
  11. sleepngbear's Avatar
    67Tucker has actually been quite a staunch defender of Blackberries on this forum. I think he's the completely wrong person to pick on... You are very transparent :P
    You can't be serious.
    grover5 likes this.
    04-05-11 01:24 PM
  12. lnichols's Avatar
    i hear ya, but not at the HS level. THe business world, yes..but the youth in the schools are not using BB from what I have seen. And it s not like its 60-40 iPhone to BB.....its 100% NON BB......the youth of this country has been brainwashed to droid and iPhone....Faculty (me) with BB's are laughed at...thats one reason I bought a tbolt....
    I live in the richest county in the United States according to Forbes Magazine. My 16 year old son tells me that while yes a lot of kids have iPhones, there are plenty of Blackberry devices in kids hands right now too. When I'm in line at the movies or go out to a store/mall I see plenty of kids walking around texting on Blackberry devices. My kids aren't begging me to get them iPhones or Droids because they are being harassed by people that own those type of devices. If they were being harassed because of using a Blackberry, or anything for that matter, I would use that as an opportunity to explain to them the definition of a *******, how people who mock/harass other people for things like that are *******, and why they don't want to be like those people. So while your school may have zero Blackberry devices, it is obviously not indicative of all schools, school systems, or the teen population, nationwide. I agree that Blackberry is behind Apple and Droid currently, and I'm sure that if you set out an iPhone and a BB in front of a teen and gave them a choice most would take the iPhone, but wanting something does not imply that you will get or own that item.
    i7guy and pantlesspenguin like this.
    04-05-11 02:24 PM
  13. qbnkelt's Avatar
    And that would be a responsible parent and one I would respect. Frankly I would not stand idly by to watch my child being ridiculed or harrassed by her peers because of a phone. And I cannot imagine having my child make such decisions for herself.
    04-05-11 02:46 PM
  14. qbnkelt's Avatar
    And I remain unconvinced on the whole non-BB world within any school anywhere with a population higher than, say, 25.

    And then there are the not-so-well-to-do areas where people will do anything to get whatever they want, regardless of the consequences, and then want more.

    I worked Katrina. I remember working at a disaster recovery center (this is just before I was a K-9 team member) helping displaced people get the benefits that FEMA was distributing. I remember seeing people come in and get more around $2500 each. There were some who blew it on whatever - booze, drugs, jewelry - and would then come back demanding more. Yelling and hurling insults at us when we told them that we didn't have anything else; all we heard from them was "Where's my money?" "I'm entitled to that money!"

    I remember one kid - with his money, this kid got himself a bycicle because his car had just literally floated away, got a room in another student's apartment because his was under water, and got himself a job at a local hardware store. When he came back to get his second voucher, this kid was clean, didn't smell of alcohol, was well put together. The others? Dripping gold chains, new Razrs, reeking of alcohol. Same disaster, two different ways of coping.

    The first group had the idea that they were going to milk the system for all it was worth. The second kid took the help that was given him to get himself together and get a job to tide him over.

    Kids learn what they see. Parents are not supposed to be friends, they're supposed to be parents. My kids are not my friends. When it's time for them to go in the world they will go having learned my rules. And rules they will have. Those rules will include all the rules well bred kids everywhere have. Long Island to Los Angeles, overly indulged or the opposite, ignored kids, will be the ones in trouble.
    Last edited by Qbnkelt; 04-05-11 at 03:20 PM.
    04-05-11 02:49 PM
  15. i7guy's Avatar
    And that would be a responsible parent and one I would respect. Frankly I would not stand idly by to watch my child being ridiculed or harrassed by her peers because of a phone. And I cannot imagine having my child make such decisions for herself.
    There are some well-to-do districts on Long Island and in Westchester where I can see the teenagers having a perverse view of the outside world. This type of teenagers rude behavior is a direct result of a hands off approach to parenting of spoiled children of rich parents.

    Thankfully these types of enclaves are not really the "real" world. If you work there long enough, I suppose, you begin to get a skewed view of the outside world.
    04-05-11 02:52 PM
  16. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    And then there are the not-so-well-to-do areas where people will do anything to get whatever they want, regardless of the consequences, and then want more.

    I worked Katrina. I remember working at a disaster recovery center (this is just before I was a K-9 team member) helping displaced people get the benefits that FEMA was distributing. I remember seeing people come in and get more around $2500 each. There were some who blew it on whatever - booze, drugs, jewelry - and would then come back demanding more. Yelling and hurling insults at us when we told them that we didn't have anything else; all we heard from them was "Where's my money?" "I'm entitled to that money!"

    I remember one kid - with his money, this kid got himself a bycicle because his car had just literally floated away, got a room in another student's apartment because his was under water, and got himself a job at a local hardware store. When he came back to get his second voucher, this kid was clean, didn't smell of alcohol, was well put together. The others? Dripping gold chains, new Razrs, reeking of alcohol. Same disaster, two different ways of coping.

    The first group had the idea that they were going to milk the system for all it was worth. The second kid took the help that was given him to get himself together and get a job to tide him over.

    Kids learn what they see. Parents are not supposed to be friends, they're supposed to be parents. My kids are not my friends. When it's time for them to go in the world they will go having learned my rules. And rules they will have. Those rules will include all the rules well bred kids everywhere have. Long Island to Los Angeles, overly indulged or the opposite, ignored kids, will be the ones in trouble.

    Sounds mostly typical. Areas in which you are describing are scattered around the country. It's pretty disgusting.
    04-05-11 04:48 PM
  17. John Yester's Avatar
    This is not the first time this thread had to be closed and cleaned up.......






    Keep debates and discussion civil. No personal attacks!

    Posts are getting to personal and way off topic!


    Unfortunately, we can only clean up a mess so many times.

    Last warning or it will be shut down for good.
    04-05-11 06:14 PM
  18. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Ok. I had mentioned an article in the Telegraph but it seems rather than the mod simply editing my post to include that, he just deleted it. On another note, my browser is hellishly slow on the BB. Points to Android? Lagging to high heaven on the mobile site of CrackBerry as I attempt to type

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-05-11 08:30 PM
  19. i7guy's Avatar
    ive NEVER said once that keyboards were not important. If you read my posts you will see the opposite. I said keyboards were the choice at this point, just not BB's......BB isnt the only device with a physical keyboard.....so your 2 teens represent the "masses"....gimme a break. Once again, ive only spoken for my school, my cousins school in NC. Other than that, its what is data driven by the market.....your data is soooo much stronger I guess........BURN
    Hmmm. I never said my kids friends represented the masses. But since they said keyboard is important that leaves out iphone. Since BBM is important to a lot of teens, that leaves out Android.

    And I also didn't say there wasn't a mix of phones. Except in your case you generalized it to any phone except BB. The generic thing called the "market" has no real clue about who has what.

    And by the way, I noticed your long post replying to me got deleted. You have no clue how much I know about the tri-state area, so don't even pretend you do.
    04-05-11 08:58 PM
  20. i7guy's Avatar
    Watchout.....i7 may say something nasty about your town.....
    I hear what you are saying and if people have read what I wrote, I said my school (2200 kids), my cousins school in NC (1500 kids) are basically BB free....n8ter said the same thing about texas.....All the other data is out on the web....i didnt write it......So, thats three major areas in three different parts of the country. Thats a much bigger data set then "my 2 teens" or the "5 people I saw near a bus" or the "few teens I saw at the mall"...and then this was released...
    US: Android is the most popular smartphone system - The H Open Source: News and Features
    So when one says their high school, their college appears to have a majority rule in BB, it doesn't count? The personal observation seems to indicate your data with a sample size of two + one in texas is flawed.
    Last edited by i7guy; 04-05-11 at 09:05 PM.
    04-05-11 09:01 PM
  21. i7guy's Avatar
    nobodies trying to convince YOU of anything. The data is what it is..even in the UK......NPD is tough to overcome but keep trying.

    Android ousts iPhone as most popular smartphone system in UK says latest survey | Android Community
    There is nothing to convince, it appears your assertion, observation, fallacy etc. is wrong on every level.
    04-05-11 09:07 PM
  22. Skeevecr's Avatar
    nobodies trying to convince YOU of anything. The data is what it is..even in the UK......NPD is tough to overcome but keep trying.

    Android ousts iPhone as most popular smartphone system in UK says latest survey | Android Community
    NPD didn't provide that data and more comprehensive surveys for the uk tend to put blackberry ahead or second rather than third.
    04-06-11 01:29 AM
  23. Skeevecr's Avatar
    67Tucker has actually been quite a staunch defender of Blackberries on this forum. I think he's the completely wrong person to pick on... You are very transparent :P
    You cannot be serious, can you find even one positive post from him in say the last 3 months as I doubt it and given the way this site seems to work you wouldn't be backing up anyone who dared to say something positive if they had.
    04-06-11 01:31 AM
  24. kozen's Avatar
    I love BlackBerry just because of BBM. Best app ever!
    04-06-11 02:48 AM
  25. qbnkelt's Avatar
    NPD didn't provide that data and more comprehensive surveys for the uk tend to put blackberry ahead or second rather than third.
    True, that. If anyone had bothered to actually read the article rather than glance at the headlines it would become readily apparent that the source of the numbers is a digital banking provider - essentially an app. So anyone who would not have download that particular app would not have been counted.
    Rather a poor article - but then again, considering the source, hardly surprising.
    Here is Intelligent Environments' website. Hardly a firm whose statistical data would be considered correctly sampled. Intelligent Environments - Online products for financial services - Homepage

    There is plenty of trash "research" out there.


    Instead, try going to an actual research firm which utilises actual numbers of units sold, which posted this.


    BlackBerry UK's no.1 smartphone brand 2010 according to GfK

    or maybe this

    UK love BlackBerry smartphones | GfK report puts BlackBerry as 2010s most popular smartphone

    The second article discusses Pay as You Go which is popular with young people who may have a harder time qualifying because their credit history is not as strong.

    I quote the last paragraph of the article, considering this discussion:

    "Simon Piper, business development manager at Mobilechoices.co.uk, said: “BlackBerrys are becoming very popular with teenagers because they look good and don’t carry the high up-front cost of the iPhone 4, yet still have many of the same smartphone features.”


    And remember, that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics, as Twain and Disraeli both said. So I take it all with a grain of salt and I look at companies' bottom lines and business practices. As I see it, while others criticise and ridicule RIM for going after what the naysayers derisively call the "third world market" let it be remembered that this market is exploding at this time. So, I believe that to go for it is a very gutsy and intelligent move. As they continue to report net profits in the billions.
    Last edited by Qbnkelt; 04-06-11 at 05:15 AM.
    04-06-11 04:07 AM
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