03-11-11 06:44 PM
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  1. The_Engine's Avatar
    IDK....Seems like I walk away from that interview thinking there is a bit of Charlie Sheen going on there. I would like to see #'s from Twitter or Facebook to support some of his claims about the most mobile users. And I am just not sure that BB has the most compelling experience there. There is a lot you can't do on BB apps for both...and I am not even a heavy user of either service.

    Some of the rest I am okay with, but it does sound like RIM is painting a picture of the industry that is somewhat convenient for them:
    - Apps not as important
    - Tablet is for Media
    - Handsets for communication

    If these points were true, then Android and iOS would not have gained so much market share in the last few years and be continuing to gain.

    I would like someone from RIM to admit that they were caught with there pants down. We don't need a "Our Platform is burning" event, but I would like someone to say, "We underestimated the impact on the market that Apple's IPhone would have. Rather than have a knee **** reaction to this new dimension, we are working to evolve our platform with new resources like Torch Mobile, QNX, and TAT (among others) that will carry our platform through the next ten years." I think that is a more realistic statement about where is, than this constant spin of what teh industry wants and what they offer.
    03-05-11 06:34 AM
  2. Machzy's Avatar
    @deRusett, while I agree that there are some quick UI options in BB that can make navigation quicker, if she got BB envy from the space bar scrolling and T for top options, that's kind of lame. iOS already has an option in the browser to scroll all the way to the top quickly if you touch the top edge of the screen. They could easily do the same with the email client. And the scrolling on iOS is way faster than the Storms were and still faster than the Torch, so space barring it isn't all that necessary. I'm not making excuses, but to insist that BB is king of communication when it cannot render webpages properly, can't send large emails, can't render HTML email content properly, but it can T for top and space bar scroll is a bit of a joke.

    I'd like to remind you how long it took RIM to come up with an OS that brought the simple task of allowing you to add a number from the call log to an existing contact or to build a new contact without that number dropping into the Work field without copy/paste of the info.
    The call log thing is the exact same thing with iOS not being able to send MMS - doesn't everybody remember that?

    Or how about when they didn't have copy & paste?

    Every manufacturer has pitfalls here and there - no need for the constant hate (TRUCATED EMAILS! TRUCATED EMAILS! TRUCATED EMAILS!)
    MrObvious likes this.
    03-05-11 07:20 AM
  3. csiguy1's Avatar
    I am just concerned that with all of this data consumption and the new rate plans that AT&T and soon VZ have in place, we will be spending much more for access to the net. The 2 Gig Cap that AT&T has now is way too low. I think we should have at least 5 gigs before getting tagged with overage charges. IMHO
    03-05-11 07:50 AM
  4. hootyhoo's Avatar
    The call log thing is the exact same thing with iOS not being able to send MMS - doesn't everybody remember that?

    Or how about when they didn't have copy & paste?

    Every manufacturer has pitfalls here and there - no need for the constant hate (TRUCATED EMAILS! TRUCATED EMAILS! TRUCATED EMAILS!)
    Apple addressed the copy paste function.

    Still waiting on rim to address truncated emails. I would be surprised if they do. I don't think that they want to increase the load on their noc.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-05-11 09:39 AM
  5. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Apple addressed the copy paste function.

    Still waiting on rim to address truncated emails. I would be surprised if they do. I don't think that they want to increase the load on their noc.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    They most likely won't, and that's probably exactly the reason why. It's a component that none of the other manufacturers or OS's have to contend with. It's one of the bigger features of RIM's overall service, specifically being able to deliver their unique network security, but in this case also a bit of a hindrance if you require the ability to send and receive huge emails from your phone.
    03-05-11 11:44 AM
  6. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Frankly, I don't have an issue with truncated emails. If I know the email will be large - someone is sending me attachments or it's part of a mailing list - I wait to get to a PC. However, I know that it's a big deal for people who must access large files on the road.
    To me, if I'm being selfish, it's a non-issue. I would keep the email functionality exactly as it is. Compression of data is perfect for my use and for those people/ entities who would most likely use a BB. But I know it's quite a problem for some. For those, I would say that a Blackberry is not a good fit.
    03-05-11 11:49 AM
  7. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Frankly, I don't have an issue with truncated emails. If I know the email will be large - someone is sending me attachments or it's part of a mailing list - I wait to get to a PC. However, I know that it's a big deal for people who must access large files on the road.
    To me, if I'm being selfish, it's a non-issue. I would keep the email functionality exactly as it is. Compression of data is perfect for my use and for those people/ entities who would most likely use a BB. But I know it's quite a problem for some. For those, I would say that a Blackberry is not a good fit.
    Not to sound like a broken record, but this is yet another practice of RIM's that I prefer. If I'm away from home, I'm probably on 3G, and there's just no way I'd want my phone tied up downloading several megs of email. If I am home and on WiFi, I'll just download it to my desktop anyway. Plus, I'm anal about clutter (on my phone anyway, don't look in my garage) -- I usually clear out the emails on my phone at least once a day, as they always end up on my home computer anyway (or work computer if you're BES). I would not want a large email sitting in my in-box only to be deleted in just a few hours. But, that's me. My feeling is, email on the phone is primarily for notification purposes, or to be able to respond quickly if something needs a quick response. That automatically excludes a large attachment, because that would obviously require something more involved than a quick response. If I'm somewhere that I know I may need to send or receive a large file, I'll be sure to have my work laptop with me, mainly because I simply would not want to be working with or editing anything that substantial on such a diminutive display and work surface as what's on a phone (and yes, that includes a 4.3" that's on some Androids). When the PlayBook gets here, well that's a different story...

    However, for those that do need and could actually take advantage of it, it would be nice if BB's at least offered the option to handle them. I wonder how well it would be received if a large email send and receive feature were available as a separate data plan tier.
    Machzy likes this.
    03-05-11 04:12 PM
  8. Machzy's Avatar
    Not to sound like a broken record, but this is yet another practice of RIM's that I prefer. If I'm away from home, I'm probably on 3G, and there's just no way I'd want my phone tied up downloading several megs of email. If I am home and on WiFi, I'll just download it to my desktop anyway. Plus, I'm anal about clutter (on my phone anyway, don't look in my garage) -- I usually clear out the emails on my phone at least once a day, as they always end up on my home computer anyway (or work computer if you're BES). I would not want a large email sitting in my in-box only to be deleted in just a few hours. But, that's me. My feeling is, email on the phone is primarily for notification purposes, or to be able to respond quickly if something needs a quick response. That automatically excludes a large attachment, because that would obviously require something more involved than a quick response. If I'm somewhere that I know I may need to send or receive a large file, I'll be sure to have my work laptop with me, mainly because I simply would not want to be working with or editing anything that substantial on such a diminutive display and work surface as what's on a phone (and yes, that includes a 4.3" that's on some Androids). When the PlayBook gets here, well that's a different story...

    However, for those that do need and could actually take advantage of it, it would be nice if BB's at least offered the option to handle them. I wonder how well it would be received if a large email send and receive feature were available as a separate data plan tier.
    I like to think that I don't blindly follow any company - with that said, continuing with truncated emails - yes, I agree - I think an option to either receive or not is due by RIM.
    03-05-11 05:00 PM
  9. missing_K-W's Avatar
    My Point was purely about apps, not being the end all be all, I agree there is much to be desired with the Blackberry, though personally I disable HTML emails anyway on my desktop email client, so that isn't something I personally care about, BB still is the fastest way for me to manage my email accounts, and navigate emails. He Envy was simply because her iphone was a work device, she needed it for managing 6 email addresses, and like me gets triple digit emails per day, so the seconds saved by scrolling pages with the spacebar then back to the top to remember who sent the email are very key features that I care about more than Apps.

    as for RIM's contact management! it is pitiful, though EVERY smartphone has pitiful contact management
    May I ask how a power user like yourself welcomes Gist and how do you feel it will impact your work life? I really like where Rim is going with social networking and contact management!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-05-11 07:30 PM
  10. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    May I ask how a power user like yourself welcomes Gist and how do you feel it will impact your work life? I really like where Rim is going with social networking and contact management!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I don't see GIST having much of an effect on my day to day life, I don't blog( thats why I come to forums) Nor do the bulk of the business people I deal with. I don't twitter, I THINK I have a LinkedIN profile.

    IF GIST was being designed to be used by the Blackberry, adding contact management via voice commands, adding easy to create sorting groups, and group contact meetings, invite by group into calendar appointments, TODO from contact, Phone number "owner" hierarchy ( 10 contacts with the same office number, which contact shows up on call display)

    These are contact management things that RIM or others should address, we do our contact management from phones, not from PC's more and more, Outlook was decent, but so much more could be done, and much more phone integration is needed.
    03-06-11 06:05 AM
  11. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    @deRusett, while I agree that there are some quick UI options in BB that can make navigation quicker, if she got BB envy from the space bar scrolling and T for top options, that's kind of lame. iOS already has an option in the browser to scroll all the way to the top quickly if you touch the top edge of the screen. They could easily do the same with the email client. And the scrolling on iOS is way faster than the Storms were and still faster than the Torch, so space barring it isn't all that necessary. I'm not making excuses, but to insist that BB is king of communication when it cannot render webpages properly, can't send large emails, can't render HTML email content properly, but it can T for top and space bar scroll is a bit of a joke.

    I'd like to remind you how long it took RIM to come up with an OS that brought the simple task of allowing you to add a number from the call log to an existing contact or to build a new contact without that number dropping into the Work field without copy/paste of the info.
    Sorry, but I need to make a correction to my post. The bold part is not correct. This IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED by Apple. I just wasn't touching the very top of the screen in the email client. Basically, this action works with any long list or screen content in iOS. (The Call Log, Contacts, email list and email body, browser, etc.) Sorry for making the mistake in my testing initially. So basically, we're just missing the quick way of getting to the bottom of something quickly, but top is covered with this touching of the very top edge of screen function.
    03-07-11 11:04 PM
  12. The_Engine's Avatar
    Sorry, but I need to make a correction to my post. The bold part is not correct. This IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED by Apple. I just wasn't touching the very top of the screen in the email client. Basically, this action works with any long list or screen content in iOS. (The Call Log, Contacts, email list and email body, browser, etc.) Sorry for making the mistake in my testing initially. So basically, we're just missing the quick way of getting to the bottom of something quickly, but top is covered with this touching of the very top edge of screen function.
    You know, its these little details that scare the crap out of me when it comes to RIM switching over from their legacy OS to QNX. I would be surprised to find out that RIM has well documented requirements or UI standards. If they did I think they would have better quality as someone would be able to say that this build doesn't meet the requirements. In fact I think better requiements and standards come from more robust qa practices which it is clear that rim doesn't have.

    So when QNX takes up the development of a handset or phone OS I am thinking they will loose a lot of time, or just lose these little features because they are not documented.

    I guess I am saying that if RIM couldn't update the OS themselves without breaking features or dropping them, how can they turn that development over to a new team without serious issues, delay?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-11 10:49 AM
  13. missing_K-W's Avatar
    You know, its these little details that scare the crap out of me when it comes to RIM switching over from their legacy OS to QNX. I would be surprised to find out that RIM has well documented requirements or UI standards. If they did I think they would have better quality as someone would be able to say that this build doesn't meet the requirements. In fact I think better requiements and standards come from more robust qa practices which it is clear that rim doesn't have.
    So when QNX takes up the development of a handset or phone OS I am thinking they will loose a lot of time, or just lose these little features because they are not documented.

    I guess I am saying that if RIM couldn't update the OS themselves without breaking features or dropping them, how can they turn that development over to a new team without serious issues, delay?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Everyone works within their own framework....rims solutions run a top QNX ....hence the micokernel architechture....since it isn't monolithic...you don't have to worry about losing the nuances

    By that everything is in it's own user space...so why would you have concern?
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-11 02:21 PM
  14. hootyhoo's Avatar
    I think he means that rim often misses the little things.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-11 04:15 PM
  15. The_Engine's Avatar
    I think he means that rim often misses the little things.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    This.

    As I understand it QNX is handling the software enginering and rightly so. So RIM needs to provide them a set of requirements that covers the little things like we are talking about here. I don't think rim can do that. Which some obscure features will be lost.

    I will say that once RIM is on QNX they should get shirts that says "Our OS is responsible for fissionable matrial. What does yours do?"

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-11 04:22 PM
  16. missing_K-W's Avatar
    This.

    As I understand it QNX is handling the software enginering and rightly so. So RIM needs to provide them a set of requirements that covers the little things like we are talking about here. I don't think rim can do that. Which some obscure features will be lost.

    I will say that once RIM is on QNX they should get shirts that says "Our OS is responsible for fissionable matrial. What does yours do?"

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    That is funny....the way I see it...in a year from now Tablet os will have more api's and development support (ex phython and QT) are guaranteed.. then anyother platform....the native sdk will be second to none....and with that it elevates the platform to spport emulators and VM's that are sci-fi at present....in a year from now....we will have the best UI on earth....and the most sophisticated apps and technology at our fingertips.....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-11 04:42 PM
  17. howarmat's Avatar
    you have nothing to base that on other than your OPINION. right now we have jack ****
    03-08-11 04:48 PM
  18. missing_K-W's Avatar
    I think he means that rim often misses the little things.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Rim may miss the little things ..however they have a platform with BB OS that is limiting and has nearly reached capacity...that we all are aware of...

    However due to the limitaions of BB OS...I believe that RIM is in a spot where they sacrafice what they can do....with what they want to do....

    With QNX on the HH's and tablet...It allows them potential and capabilities that are unrivalled.Now they can apply their vission of what they want to achieve, and their heritage and pedigree is cutting edge solutions which they have achieved for almost 30 years....

    There are intrinsic truths to why Jim B stress'sthat they arn't an app company....and Mike L stress's super apps...these guys know mobile! RIM is going to be the first company to offer uncompromised mobile computeing solutions.....not dumbed down computeing like the competition...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-11 05:06 PM
  19. missing_K-W's Avatar
    you have nothing to base that on other than your OPINION. right now we have jack ****
    Jack ****. QNX has already become a recent sponsor of Python and QT framework already operates on qnx medical devices

    http://pycon.blogspot.com/2011/03/welcome-to-qnx-and-thanks-to-all-our.html

    As far as QT goes....with an attitude like that...I'm sure you have been proved wrong many times....(Google QT QNX support)

    As far as OPINION.....they already support more development platforms then either, windows, Apple and Google.....and they are Posix certified....

    www.qnx.com see for yourself

    And why would anyone question whether or not the device would support it eventually...if QNX software systems already do? It is a guarantee it will be supported on the platform....think about it for awhile...since the support is so vast...they can only impliment so much at present

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-08-11 at 05:23 PM.
    03-08-11 05:14 PM
  20. hootyhoo's Avatar
    Jack ****. QNX has already become a recent sponsor of Python and QT framework already operates on qnx medical devices

    http://pycon.blogspot.com/2011/03/welcome-to-qnx-and-thanks-to-all-our.html

    As far as QT goes....with an attitude like that...I'm sure you have been proved wrong many times....(Google QT QNX support)

    As far as OPINION.....they already support more development platforms then either, windows, Apple and Google.....and they are Posix certified....

    www.qnx.com see for yourself

    And why would anyone question whether or not the device would support it eventually...if QNX software systems already do? It is a guarantee it will be supported on the platform....think about it for awhile...since the support is so vast...they can only impliment so much at present

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    That all sounds really great.

    The problem is that the last time I tried to make a call and send an email on a medical device, they didn't go through. I don't know if it was a problem with the carrier or the device itself.

    Point being that no one knows how good the new QNX PHONES will be until they actually make one.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    howarmat likes this.
    03-08-11 07:19 PM
  21. The_Engine's Avatar
    Okay. No doubt QNX is on a whole other level. I Think there is a lot to be excited about there. But the point I was making had to do with RIM's present level of documentation. If you know software development then you know software engineers normally work from technical specs that are developed from user requirements. Those specs and requirements are also used to the build the testing plans and cases. So first you document what you want done, then you document how you are going to do it, then you do it, then you verify that you did, in fact, do it. Standard SDLC. Now RIM has never evidenced any sophistication on this level which IQ apparent in the poor quality of their software builds and defect churn. (for example my MP3 playback stopped when I opened the camera today, wtf?)

    So QNX may be as good as we hope they are but without knowing, specifically, what they need to do, they have a long road ahead. Ever hear the phrase "Sht in, Sht out"? That could apply to gen 1 qnx os.

    You seem to be speaking from an app developer point of view, and from that perspective I think you may be right about the sdk`s and stuff like that. But if there isn't a requirement that there be hot keys or some UI mechanism to scroll to the top or bottom of a scrollable page (email, browser, etc.) then guess what? It doesn't go in the design, and therefore it does not get coded.

    Make sense?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-11 07:39 PM
  22. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Okay. No doubt QNX is on a whole other level. I Think there is a lot to be excited about there. But the point I was making had to do with RIM's present level of documentation. If you know software development then you know software engineers normally work from technical specs that are developed from user requirements. Those specs and requirements are also used to the build the testing plans and cases. So first you document what you want done, then you document how you are going to do it, then you do it, then you verify that you did, in fact, do it. Standard SDLC. Now RIM has never evidenced any sophistication on this level which IQ apparent in the poor quality of their software builds and defect churn. (for example my MP3 playback stopped when I opened the camera today, wtf?)

    So QNX may be as good as we hope they are but without knowing, specifically, what they need to do, they have a long road ahead. Ever hear the phrase "Sht in, Sht out"? That could apply to gen 1 qnx os.

    You seem to be speaking from an app developer point of view, and from that perspective I think you may be right about the sdk`s and stuff like that. But if there isn't a requirement that there be hot keys or some UI mechanism to scroll to the top or bottom of a scrollable page (email, browser, etc.) then guess what? It doesn't go in the design, and therefore it does not get coded.

    Make sense?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Well from my observations ....RIM's vision is limited to their current OS architechture and how it manages system resources.....bugs occur because resources are run in large stacks and therefore it allows for two many processes to occur at anygiven time....it is just inefficient and complicated to code for.....

    Having a potent OS...allows for potent hardware....QNX can focus on enginerring the OS...and create environments for for RIM to focus on programming core features

    Software issues should be none rellevent to a high degree as QNX software sytems has specialized in co-operating with software partners to eliminate any bugs what so ever. When they have applied their OS in mission critical situations....one of them being the playbook...now this is mission critical!....develop a hardware and software solution that is bullet proof!

    Remember QNX is a company specializing in only OS's ....that's all the have been doing for 30 years....wrap your head around their heritage...pedigree and area of expertise.

    They have specialized in nothing more then working with hardware and software partners( for 30 years) doing nothing but develop highly sophisticated products that can not and will not fail...

    All they have done for 30 years is specialize in forging partnerships that cannot fail...any code that rim will provide them is infantile to the challenges they have adapted to over the past 30 years....ios was touted as an enginerring gem....that is just a blip in the radar to the overall product apple specializes in....ios doesn't have 30 years of dedicated specialized enginerring that has evvolved from the reult of adapting to the mars rover demands....neuclear power demands...medical device demands ....and aerospace demands....

    Sorry to rant......but all QNX has done for 30 years is design and engineer .....innovate and adapt their OS to what is considered impossible and making it possible....

    Give them some code that RIM provides them and should we really be concerned...after all....all they do is specialize in making it happen...unlike any other company can....

    There is no wonder TAT gladily jumped on board...I can only imagine in all liklihood that once they were presented with RIM's vision moving forward and a software platform in QNX...they realised they were gearing up to usher in a new era of mobile computing....on a software platform that has no peer...

    With the combination of the above...it also allows the leveraging of QNX's development partners over the years to also provide software solutions to the platform...people should just wake up and realize what we are some times harping on is stemmed from their current os limitations...."What we want to do"-"vs" what we can do"

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-11 08:32 PM
  23. missing_K-W's Avatar
    That all sounds really great.

    The problem is that the last time I tried to make a call and send an email on a medical device, they didn't go through. I don't know if it was a problem with the carrier or the device itself.

    Point being that no one knows how good the new QNX PHONES will be until they actually make one.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Well the last time I checked...the phones are pretty good! To a large extent great by the testomony of the majority of blackberry users...

    To come to a conclusion of what we are looking forward to....we have to look at blackberry vs the competition and their own limitations...we can then factor in to some degree the capabilities of QNX's new upcomming platform and leverage their potential against what we all ready consider the best in each given field from each given company...

    Seeing as blackberry is already a great product...with an unparalled software platform moving forward that trumps the competition as far as potential cpabilities and given capabilities.....we can only assume that we are only making an already great product greater....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-11 08:48 PM
  24. The_Engine's Avatar

    Seeing as blackberry is already a great product...with an unparalled software platform moving forward that trumps the competition as far as potential cpabilities and given capabilities.....we can only assume that we are only making an already great product greater....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Okay you lost me here. Blackberry has an unparalleled software platform!? And you mean the curent state, not what we hope for with QNX!?

    Wait a minute...is this Charlie Sheen? What up dog! You crazy!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-09-11 05:09 AM
  25. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Okay you lost me here. Blackberry has an unparalleled software platform!? And you mean the curent state, not what we hope for with QNX!?

    Wait a minute...is this Charlie Sheen? What up dog! You crazy!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    In. Qnx they do moving forward

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-09-11 06:27 AM
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