06-21-11 10:06 AM
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  1. Ibn la Ahad's Avatar
    Just found this article on Gizmodo.

    Let the discussion begin...

    EDIT: I'm not a RIM hater, let's have that clear.
    Last edited by Ibn la Ahad; 06-17-11 at 04:51 AM.
    06-17-11 02:39 AM
  2. katiepea's Avatar
    every single reason is true, and there are dozens of others, over a billion under revenue...sheesh, seems things went from "are we ok" to "OMFG" in one quarter. you knew it'd come quick, cell phone contracts aren't THAT long, they simply do not have devices, and the ONE on the horizon is being delayed... i'd be willing to take wagers that we never see a qnx handset. there was a certain point in time when admins of other mobile manufacturers fan sites had to throw their hands up and the towel in. i'm wondering when this moment will be here. every bit of bad news on rims front has some sort of battleplan with the fans. people need to really just face reality here, they're laying people off, revenue is off over a billion, futures look bleak, nothing really to show you that things might change... really how could they? they're selling an OS that isn't functionally any better than what they had 3 years ago. this isn't a hate on RIM time, this is a time where people need to make peace with the fact that RIM is just simply done. the rest will happen quickly, after this news...well investors will simply jump ship, who wouldn't. they're all going to get out while they can because RIM can't offer a single shred of reason why they shouldn't.
    06-17-11 04:44 AM
  3. sdmcwilliams's Avatar
    If RIM wants to survive they need to make a device and OS to compete with iPhone and Android. Until they do that they will continue to lose market-share every year. The RIM faithful will say that they like the devices and current OS, RIM is more secure, RIM compresses data, etc. I was a huge RIM fan for years but I have had my iPhone 4 for almost 1 year and I will never go back.

    All of their devices coming out look just like my Bold 9000 from 3 years ago. They need to get with the times.
    AbuYazeedUK likes this.
    06-17-11 07:29 AM
  4. stackberry369's Avatar
    Why are you posting here then?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-17-11 07:35 AM
  5. Ibn la Ahad's Avatar
    Why are you posting here then?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Seriously?
    06-17-11 07:36 AM
  6. beebeeman's Avatar
    oh no, even Blackberry owners don't want BlackBerrys, I must get rid of mine asap...

    LOL
    06-17-11 07:53 AM
  7. Ferretling's Avatar
    What do I think of this? Well...

    Point 1: Delays of product releases aren't always a good thing, but August is around when I expected to see most of the phones, and it is already mid-June. Plus, yeah, the current models won't be able to use OS7. Unless RIM stops supporting other OSs, I don't see this as a problem. If OS7 is only "marginally better", as Gizmodo said, then it shouldn't make a difference anyway, now should it? If it is a concern, then it is probably more than "marginally better.

    2. Gizmodo seems to want to have their cake and eat it too. Oh, yeah, the Bold 9900 will have a touchscreen! And it ewill have OS7! (Which is only marginally better than OS6, they said, so big deal, right? But then they complain that it has the same handset RIM has had for the past 5 years. Now, even I know that RIM has modified their handsets over the past fife years. But yes, it is basically the same. So what? By that logic, Apple is in trouble because it has released the same handset for its entire existence.

    3. The Playbook, ah, the Playbook. Yeah. I heard for months what a useless toy the iPad was last year. While I question some of the choices RIM made, I would still buy a Playbook if I could afford a tablet.

    4. Quantity does not equaly quality. The people at Gizmodo must be shopping in a different store, because I have no problem finding quality apps that do what I need or want them to do. Okay, sure, I don't have Sushi Cat, but other than that, what is the big deal?

    5. Again, by this logic, Apple is screwed, because I have heard plenty of news about how much developers hate dealing with Apple, too. Oh wow, it's on the interwebs! Excuse me while I roll my eyes at the writer.

    6. Though they may be financially struggling in some areas right now, from my understandings RIM is financially solvent and not likely to need to declare bankruptcy or anything like that. Difficulties do not equal "ruins". That's a fair bit of hyperbole.

    7. Leadership may be struggling or appear to be struggling. This is something that, if so, should be dealt with. However, I do not know that it is at the "screwed" level.

    8. The survey is from last year. August last year, so almost a year ago. The data was likely collected a year ago, and I don't know their sample size. It is almost impossible to say whether or not that data is still relevant, or if it ever was relevant in the first place. Quite frankly, I've never been entirely satisfied with the Nielsen Company's sampling methods.

    9. It is still an expanding market, even in enterprise. Sure, enterprise is checking out Android and iPhone, because their employees want to try them out. It is something I expected. As for the iPad, tablets can be handy, and if you look at the article Gizmodo linked to as a reference, it is from January of this year, when iPad was pretty much the only tablet; the others had only just launched or were not yet launched. So, saying wow, enterprise started trying out iPads, hence RIM is in trouble is just filled with sillysauce.

    10. So, wait, other phones are now starting to do things BBs are good at and that is "eating RIM's Lunch"? Uh, okay... The email issues have been discussed ad nauseum, and good and bad things can be said about the platforms on Android, Apple, and BB phones. Saying OS7 is behind when it isn't even out yet is silly. It's not a final release yet, now, is it? iMessage-- in beta. Don't know how it will stack up against BBM, do we?

    Don't get me wrong, there are definitely some areas for concern and some things RIM needs to do to improve and tighten the ship. I will agree, though, that RIM is undergoing a transitional phase, and these things do happen in any company that stays around long enough. But I will also say that much of this article is hyperbole and personal bias.
    06-17-11 08:37 AM
  8. sdmcwilliams's Avatar
    Why are you posting here then?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I still come to this site for news on all devices because it interests me. The article makes a lot of valid points. My office went from all BB 3 years ago to about 10% BB today. They opened it up and let people choose their own device on whatever carrier they wanted. Guess what happened? People tossed their BB and got an iPhone or Android device.

    It also saves the company money because before they were paying $45 BES data plans. There is a minimum savings of $15 per person per month.

    I would love to see RIM step up and compete with other devices. Competition is good for everyone. I just don't see it in their "new" devices.
    Last edited by sdmcwilliams; 06-17-11 at 10:03 AM.
    06-17-11 09:33 AM
  9. T
    RIM doesn't need to come out with new hansets; its designs have already been perfected. If it aint broke (and it's not), don't fix it. I'm glad BlackBerry is not like apple or android.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by Tnis; 06-17-11 at 11:01 AM.
    ericz likes this.
    06-17-11 10:59 AM
  10. cfoxx's Avatar
    RIM doesn't need to come out with new hansets; its designs have already been perfected. If it aint broke (and it's not), don't fix it.
    Trouble is, it IS broke. People don't want it anymore. You're suggesting RIM should continue to rest on their laurels, and that will destroy them.
    06-17-11 12:28 PM
  11. avt123's Avatar
    Why are you posting here then?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    If you are looking for smiling faces and completely ignoring what is going on right now with RIM, you are living in a dream world.
    06-17-11 12:35 PM
  12. avt123's Avatar
    RIM doesn't need to come out with new hansets; its designs have already been perfected. If it aint broke (and it's not), don't fix it. I'm glad BlackBerry is not like apple or android.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    This is why RIM is going downhill right now. The leaders seem to have the same exact attitude.
    06-17-11 12:38 PM
  13. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    This is why RIM is going downhill right now. The leaders seem to have the same exact attitude.
    There is nothing wrong with the design of the BlackBerry handsets. It is what is under the hood that is problem and the fact that the OS hasn't changed much over the years.

    Also, the people trying to sugar coat RIM's current position should just stop... I agree the above article is grossly exaggerated but almost all the points are valid and lucky for RIM their one shining light is this QNX OS but they are going to have to wow consumers with a handset capable of competing with likes of the Droids and iPhones but the way they have demonstrated their lack of foresight they will probably find a way to screw this up as well.

    The PlayBook is looking more and more like the last kick of a dying horse. No wonder it was rushed into the market...
    06-17-11 02:13 PM
  14. T
    Trouble is, it IS broke. People don't want it anymore.
    It isn't broke. I'm a person, and I want it. I don't want BlackBerry to be anything like iPhone or Android.
    06-17-11 02:50 PM
  15. jthep's Avatar
    The only phones that constantly change designs are Android based. Why? I dunno, maybe bc HTC, Motorola, Samsung, etc. all make them an switch designs constantly.

    Apple has had an identical design on every iPhone ever made. No QWERTY keyboard, 1 button, same rectangular brick shape. Bad to type on, bad at phone calls, nickel and dime you on apps, little customization, but great media device.

    BB's have a lot of designs. The fairly recent Style I thought was a laughable throw back with the flip phone or clam shell design. But the perfect design to the Bold and my personal favorite, the Torch work fine. Its keeping up with hardware and apps where RIM struggles.

    RIM should keep it simple and just design Bold and Torch form factors. Scrap the lousy Style, Storm, Pearl designs. Focus on the traditional BB with Bold type models or the hybrid slider model Torches.
    06-17-11 03:23 PM
  16. Xerxes10's Avatar
    .[/QUOTE] "But the perfect design to the Bold and my personal favorite, the Torch work fine. Its keeping up with hardware and apps where RIM struggles.

    RIM should keep it simple and just design Bold and Torch form factors. Scrap the lousy Style, Storm, Pearl designs. Focus on the traditional BB with Bold type models or the hybrid slider model Torches

    I agree, RIM should stop making so many different models. Clearly there is a strong group who love the original Bold form with it's great keyboard, so get the new one out that has the touchscreen, faster processor, more memory, etc. Then update the Torch, my favorit, but needs more power and a better screen (think competing with iPhone Retina and Super Amoled...) and then have one all Touch (like they're supposedly doing). There, three phones, launch them simultaneously with all carriers like Samsung does, essentially the same phones at the same time. No exclusives, RIM needs volume. Then QNX to all three as fast as possible, take some of those billions in bank and hire people to get these things out faster, what good does it do to save money if you go under anyway? Risk it all in a race to catch up and pass Apple & Android, otherwise RIM goes the way of Palm. BTW, I've been a loyal BlackBerry owner since my first 8820 (GPS & WiFi-rocked at the time!), then a Bold 9000, and now a Torch and a PlayBook. Here's hoping RIM gets it together...
    06-17-11 04:16 PM
  17. fnguyen's Avatar
    This is why RIM is going downhill right now. The leaders seem to have the same exact attitude.
    it is not the design but what is under the hood that should be upgraded. Apple did not change significantly their products but perfected them.
    06-17-11 04:23 PM
  18. katiepea's Avatar
    Then QNX to all three as fast as possible, take some of those billions in bank and hire people to get these things out faster, what good does it do to save money if you go under anyway? Risk it all in a race to catch up and pass Apple & Android, otherwise RIM goes the way of Palm. BTW, I've been a loyal BlackBerry owner since my first 8820 (GPS & WiFi-rocked at the time!), then a Bold 9000, and now a Torch and a PlayBook. Here's hoping RIM gets it together...
    just to keep a though process flowing, why is anyone even considering that qnx is going to be the savior? you mentioned palm, webOS was that to them, there is a very VERY eerily similarity between these two situations, companies waiting too long, banking on one product and that product turns out to be a flop. sure webOS is cool, but too much was at stake, and people LIKED developing for that. QNX is even less proven, the development process is a nightmare for it. of course no one knows the future, but considering the amount of marketshare blackberry has already lost, and the fact that these devices are nowhere really on the close horizon, where will RIM be by the time qnx handsets come to fruition? honestly. is QNX going to draw people back? well they'd have to have a platform with a TON of apps and not a catchup scenario, which is what they do have, it's catchup, i was willing to believe qnx would save the day until RIM stunted it entirely by making developing for it a bad dream. you can play the situation out in your head that RIM survives long enough to actually put out a qnx handset if you like, and it could very well happen, but are the people that are left by that time going to be enough to keep it alive? is anyone going to jump ship again and go back to BB? possibly, but that would take years, look at android, it appeared to be a total lost cause for the first year until it evolved a community resource for development. it'll take rim years to get anyone who left to come back and at the rate android is growing, i think their numbers will be sorely depleted by then.
    Last edited by katiepea; 06-17-11 at 04:37 PM.
    06-17-11 04:35 PM
  19. Xerxes10's Avatar
    Tragically, you are probably right...but we can always hope :-)
    06-17-11 04:53 PM
  20. jthep's Avatar
    I think RIM just releasing two types of form factors is the way to go though. Stay away from touch screen only phones, especially since I thought every Storm model sucked.

    Also with the marketing and fanfare iPhones have right now, don't try to be the iPhone, try to be an alternative.

    iPhones aren't as good at typing, messaging, emails due to the lack of QWERTY keyboard, so stick with those great BB keyboards. People like me are old school in that I do not want to do surgery using two hands to type on a touch screen and prefer the quickness and feel to thumbing real keys!

    BB phones have stronger battery life than Android phones, make sure this remains true.

    Can QNX be the savior the BB? I doubt it, but it does look promising from what I have seen on the Playbook.

    Just make Bolds and Torches and improve them every year and thats a pretty strong lineup right there.
    06-17-11 04:55 PM
  21. katiepea's Avatar
    I think their phones are fine, but os is total garbage, if I were on that board I would be screaming to abandon bbos and qnx, stick with our form factor and implement android on our devices, software isn't ever going to save rim, but their hardware is proven

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-17-11 04:59 PM
  22. avt123's Avatar
    There is nothing wrong with the design of the BlackBerry handsets. It is what is under the hood that is problem and the fact that the OS hasn't changed much over the years.
    See below.

    it is not the design but what is under the hood that should be upgraded. Apple did not change significantly their products but perfected them.
    Both of you failed to read what I actually said. I never said anything about the design. I was talking specifically about the attitude of the post I quoted. Ya know, the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" garbage (obviously something is broke).

    RIM has had this attitude for a while. That is why the entire Bold line besides design and some other upgrades (RAM, camera) and the Torch (uses the same screen as Storm and same hardware as Bold) has barely changed since 2008 when the Bold came out.

    Once again, I am talking about attitude, not device design.
    Last edited by avt123; 06-17-11 at 05:11 PM.
    06-17-11 05:06 PM
  23. GeneKam's Avatar
    Well iPhone is better all around. People who think its bad for typing are just simply ignorant to the fact that it takes muscle memory time to adjust to newositioning and feel. When I went from an iPhone to a BB, it was hard to use a crappy phisical keyboard again as it takes more time and more force to press a button then touch glass. My blackberry drops just as many calls as my iPhone did.

    Rim missed the cycle to implement qnx hard and are becoming new nokia with a low end phones for emerging markets. And for god sake, they need to hire more people to push qnx out ASAP instead of layoffs. At this point I wouldn't feel bad if rim died, they made all the wrong moves and ignored the rest of the market. They saw how marked punished palm, and BB is in no better situation. Money wise, they are, but mind share... North American market is pissed at how the loyal customers are of rim get garbage products for premium prices. That's just unaccaptable.
    06-17-11 05:52 PM
  24. sdmcwilliams's Avatar
    Apple has had an identical design on every iPhone ever made. No QWERTY keyboard, 1 button, same rectangular brick shape. Bad to type on, bad at phone calls, nickel and dime you on apps, little customization, but great media device.
    I thought the same thing until I started using an iPhone. I can type just as fast on it as i did on my old Bold 9000. I have never had a problem with the phone. No more dropped calls than on my Bold. Not sure what you mean about the apps. Yes, some apps cost $. I remember the BB App World and a lot of those apps were paid apps. I just love having the options of being able to get any app I want to. The other bonus is that my wife has an iPhone and my daughter has an iPod Touch. We can share any apps that we paid for.

    I have tried the Storm and it is an awful touchscreen device. Having a big screen is very important to a lot of people. I watch rental movies on trips and also watch Netflix movies every now and then. Do that on a Bold screen. You will need a magnifying glass. Does Netflix even make a free app for BB? I am asking because I don't know. I found some 3rd party app called Muvela and it was $5!!!

    I can't customize it as much as I could on my Bold but I really don't miss it that much. It's not that big of a deal to me.

    Last thing. I typed this on my iPhone on the regular version of the CB site. I love not having to go to the mobile versions of sites.
    reeneebob and oldbbuser like this.
    06-17-11 05:59 PM
  25. T
    What would be a cool feature on upcoming os's and devices would be speed dial from any screen! I've noticed that speed dial works from the home screen as well as from the messages application screen on my Curve. It would be great if it also worked from all other screens: no matter what you have open -- browser, tasks, memo pad, calendar, etc. -- just press and hold to call! (No, I'm not gonna get an android or iphone if those platforms already offer that! )

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-17-11 05:59 PM
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