03-25-11 09:40 AM
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  1. sf49ers's Avatar
    You clearly don't know bmx. So we will forgive your comments for their ignorance.

    That guy just risked his job to provide some insight into a device so that folks like us know what we are doing when drop our hard earned money on a device and sign a 2 year contract. Show a little respect and some gratitude for that at least.

    And being that this tester has had his hands on just about device that passes through big red I probably value his opinion more than 90% of the posters on here.

    Here is the simple test to know if 6.1 has any qnx unde the hood...how long does a restart take? We should get that answer and then we will know.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Forget about OS 6.1 and QNX did the BMX guy or any adventure of the so called secret brotherhood disclose what kernel does a current BB OS run?? can they? nobody knows what kernel the BB OS ran/runs except for RIM. Even if they were to replace the kernel no one will ever know unless RIM discloses that.
    03-12-11 07:57 PM
  2. The_Engine's Avatar
    And I was just giving you a hard time...it sounded worse after I typed it.
    LOL. No worries. I was probably a bit hard but the "dumb tester" comment irked me.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-12-11 08:02 PM
  3. cwong15's Avatar
    So what I am getting at is that the BB os is not a jvm. It uses one to run apps the same as android does. Further it makes very little sense for rim to take a bad JVM and park it on qnx and call it 6.1. The poor JVM would make qnx look bad. Even further, if they had done this they wouldn't be looking at dalvik as their JVM to run legacy BB apps. They would already have one and dalvik may hold improvements but it wouldn't be the day 1 solution if they were so going to market with the BB JVM sitting on QNX as well. That just doesn't make sense.
    As far as JVMs go, from the BB's credits page they are probably currently using Sun's J2ME implementation. That is not necessarily the fastest implementation out there. It's not even clear to me that it has JIT. It would be nice to get a faster implementation going forwards.

    I agree with you that Dalvik would not be the best option. The main reason is compatibility: it does not run Java bytecode, and won't run any midlet or BBOS apps out there. Going to QNX, there are other options. At last year's DevCon, the QNX folks claimed to have a good JVM. Also, IBM's J9 JVM also runs on QNX, and it has a JIT. Finally, phones are big and fast enough now that it may be feasible to run Java SE Embedded. This is the real thing, Hotspot and all, and it is way faster than Dalvik:

    Java SE Embedded vs Dalvik performance

    It would be nice to have a truly fast JVM that supports the modern Java language in Java SE. One wrinkle that comes to mind is whether new-gen JVMs for QNX will support shared JVM usage. That is, multiple apps can share the same JVM, making it an MVM. I think this is the case with the current BB JVM. Otherwise, startup time and memory consumption would not be good.
    03-12-11 09:32 PM
  4. Skeevecr's Avatar
    You clearly don't know bmx. So we will forgive your comments for their ignorance.

    That guy just risked his job to provide some insight into a device so that folks like us know what we are doing when drop our hard earned money on a device and sign a 2 year contract. Show a little respect and some gratitude for that at least.

    And being that this tester has had his hands on just about device that passes through big red I probably value his opinion more than 90% of the posters on here.
    His willingness to break his nda just to impress posters on a messageboard just seems a bit silly really and as for the comment about qnx, he has absolutely zero additional info on whether these phones will see any kind of qnx upgrade than the rest of us and is purely guessing on that point.

    The only info we have had so far was from the rim ceo saying that this qnx os was designed for dual-core which rules it out right now, but we can't draw any more conclusions than that.
    03-13-11 07:40 AM
  5. Xopher's Avatar
    I doubt we will see true QNX integration until at least BB7.
    03-13-11 10:10 AM
  6. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Run bb os atop qnx micro-kernel...fully scaled to it's max....instant resource management boost...insert into the E-Z bake oven......presto...QNX present...no one the wiser...now on to OS 7...

    http://www.qnx.com/solutions/industries/netcom/scalability.html

    clipped this ....as a quote from the article

    "capability that is independent of the underlying interconnect technology"
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-13-11 at 10:52 AM.
    03-13-11 10:47 AM
  7. The_Engine's Avatar
    You guys are downplaying the effort to integrate BB OS with QNX.

    And I will just let BMX speak for himself...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-13-11 12:56 PM
  8. Sirhill's Avatar
    This may be a shot in the dark but here goes. The possibility of 6.1 running on the QNX kernel is very, very possible for one main point. The bb's current environment is ran in a VM now (don't believe me look in your about section clearly stats it there). So we now that QNX kernel can run any VM environment so what stopping RIM from porting one kernel out and using another. Its not like they don't have the ability.

    If they don't want to be a WP7 and have to create a whole new line of phones just to run the new OS the first thing they will have to do is lay a foundation (kernel) for the new OS. The best way to do this is port in the new foundation (QNX kernel) and run there legacy code in a VM that is supported by that foundation. This will be 6.1 (hence the .1), now you have the ability to run all of the legacy code you want than with every new OS (major) update you build on to the foundation adding newer features without screwing with the older code. This way everything seems the same but really all they are doing is building out the new platform for the future and it all looks and feels seamless.

    QNX by all means is one of the most scalable OS out, RIM can start small and end up with something completely different all while keeping the 2011 devices current when OS 7 hits even better device (hence the 6.1 lite). Everyone that say they will wait for the full blown ONX device will be waiting for a while as ONX will only continue to grow and really never be full blown. The reason I say this is because of the QNX and dual core debate and that it can only run on DC. It does not need a DC but it runs even better on one ( again 6.1 lite).

    My whole point is that the foundation needs to be laid and they have to give the device some power to get it there and 1.2ghz is not a bad way to start. When RIM drops a DC in their devices and add more to the base than you will see and even greater picture of QNX but you have to have a base first and this is why I think that 6.1 will have the QNX kernel. Just my 0.02

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-13-11 01:55 PM
  9. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
    Sirhil, what you're saying makes sense. But, I think the 6.1 lite is referring to the lower end phones coming out with 800mhz (sedona, malibu, etc.). Full blown 6.1 looks like it will be the ones that utilize the 1.2GHz (monaco, dakota, etc.) I don't think they are referring to all of the upcoming phones as lite.
    03-13-11 02:28 PM
  10. avt123's Avatar
    1.2 Ghz processor is not weak by means and is comparable to any dual-core mobile processor available today and even if they were to run their latest Tablet OS on 1.2Ghz proc it would just fly and be as snappier as it is on the dual core.
    1.2GHz is not weak at all, but please do not say it is comparable to dual core. That is absolutely wrong. If the software is optimized right, the dual core processor will be much better.
    03-13-11 03:18 PM
  11. avt123's Avatar
    @sf49ers, I think you are 100% right about BB 6.1 being powered by the QNX OS. Couple thoughts: the hardware on the leaked roadmap slides for Monaco and Dakota show Qualcomm 1.2GHz processors. Qualcomm doesn't make a single core 1.2GHz processor (easily verifiable via the Web), so those must be dual core phones, and we all know that Lazaridis said dual core = QNX.
    Or....these chips can just be overclocked?
    03-13-11 03:21 PM
  12. K Bear's Avatar
    Or....these chips can just be overclocked?
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the latest Snapdragon be overclocked from 1ghz to 1.2ghz or more?
    03-13-11 03:33 PM
  13. howarmat's Avatar
    current one can go 1.2 atleast and the newer one is "rated" at 1.2 on some qualcomm documents. so until they are in the wild we might not know what chip is in them.
    03-13-11 03:37 PM
  14. avt123's Avatar
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the latest Snapdragon be overclocked from 1ghz to 1.2ghz or more?
    Yes. More than 1.5GHz actually.
    03-13-11 06:45 PM
  15. K Bear's Avatar
    Yes. More than 1.5GHz actually.
    So, we can assume that the 2011 batch of Blackberrys will not have QNX per the information that RIM has provided.
    03-13-11 07:01 PM
  16. howarmat's Avatar
    That is the way I am reading it. I expect qnx hh next year
    03-13-11 07:14 PM
  17. avt123's Avatar
    So, we can assume that the 2011 batch of Blackberrys will not have QNX per the information that RIM has provided.
    Exactly. RIM said "dual core technology isn't where it needs to be yet for smartphones" or something like that. They said QNX will use multicore processing.
    03-13-11 07:21 PM
  18. The_Engine's Avatar
    Not mwntion that the 6.1 slides we have seen would be plastered with QNX. RIM woupd definitely market it using the QNX name. They'd be fools not too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-13-11 07:51 PM
  19. Steve Rizla's Avatar
    Not mwntion that the 6.1 slides we have seen would be plastered with QNX. RIM woupd definitely market it using the QNX name. They'd be fools not too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    No,

    why would they brag about using QNX to boot the device?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-14-11 01:08 PM
  20. The_Engine's Avatar
    No,

    why would they brag about using QNX to boot the device?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    If QNX is the kernel or OS core, then it is doing a lot more than boot it. It would be handling the resources ( cpu cycles, ram usage, etc.)

    And I think BMX's review of the Monaco citing app crashes and hard resets proves that qnx is not under the hood. Doesn't qnx not crash? An app or process could run a muck, but the OS is shielded from that spilling into its functions, right?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-14-11 01:14 PM
  21. StaticFX's Avatar
    also.. BMX said that the new devices are just a "filler" till QNX devices are released. QNX for BB requires dual core. 6.1 is NOT QNX in any way... and the new devices wont be able to upgrade to QNX later.

    sucks.
    03-14-11 01:49 PM
  22. Culex316's Avatar
    also.. BMX said that the new devices are just a "filler" till QNX devices are released. QNX for BB requires dual core. 6.1 is NOT QNX in any way... and the new devices wont be able to upgrade to QNX later.

    sucks.

    That's what I figured as well.

    Besides, a QNX BB OS would probably have an interface similar to the Playbook and the leaked Monaco images showed us that isn't the case.
    03-14-11 02:10 PM
  23. Skeevecr's Avatar
    also.. BMX said that the new devices are just a "filler" till QNX devices are released. QNX for BB requires dual core. 6.1 is NOT QNX in any way... and the new devices wont be able to upgrade to QNX later.
    Whether he is testing the new 6.1 devices or not, he most certainly doesn't know any more than anyone else about their future prospects for qnx, as things stand at the moment they are not getting qnx, but who knows if that will change in the future or not and it is just stupid for people to jump to conclusions either way at such an early stage when qnx is about a year away from any phones.
    03-14-11 02:20 PM
  24. StaticFX's Avatar
    Whether he is testing the new 6.1 devices or not, he most certainly doesn't know any more than anyone else about their future prospects for qnx, as things stand at the moment they are not getting qnx, but who knows if that will change in the future or not and it is just stupid for people to jump to conclusions either way at such an early stage when qnx is about a year away from any phones.
    hes not the only source... its also said in a QNX interview that BB devices will need dual core cpu's.
    03-14-11 03:43 PM
  25. dooodads's Avatar
    I don't think full blown QNX implementation is going to happen for a LONG time. But I could see them slowly rolling out updates (6.1, 6.2, etc...) which will slowly add similar functionality or set the stage for it.
    03-14-11 05:33 PM
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