03-27-11 11:05 PM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Actually, come to think of it, probably around 80% of UK is still on GPRS/EDGE

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-22-11 08:14 PM
  2. K Bear's Avatar
    No the devices you listed are only 3.6Mbps. Not even 7.2Mbps.


    As for the whole dual core & 4G, let's take a look at it.

    Dual-Core HH on the market: Motorola Atrix- Horrendous battery life

    4G(LTE) device on the market: HTC ThunderBolt- Equally horrendous battery life.

    Handhelds are not ready for LTE. Especially if you are in the Enterprise world and have to actually use your phone for work. Nobody wants to HAVE to charge their device 3 times a day for it to last all day. Nobody wants to HAVE to carry around multiple CHARGED batteries. And lastly, nobody wants to HAVE to use a HUGE extended-life battery for it to last the entire day. This isn't sufficient in the corporate world. Furthermore, most consumers don't want to do this either. This will surely change with time, but not right now. Not the Q2. The device will have to be quite big for a big enough battery to last close to a full day on LTE. Hence why Apple is waiting until 2012 for LTE.

    Dual-core: For Android handhelds, it's absolutely useless right now as they have no SMP compatibility. In the future yes, but not now. Obviously the new craze is dual core and they're coming fast, like it or not. Obviously when the i5 comes, it'll be dual core and be optimized for it. As will other devices, eventually. Thing is the i4 is single core and it's as fast as the Atrix by a country mile(easily).
    I see no reason why RIM shouldn't move to dual core. And they are. Currently dual-core devices are being tested within the RIM dev team. Thing is, just because a phone that comes out in 2011 doesn't have a dual core processor doesn't make it obsolete. Not everyone is a spec junkie and worried about having the fastest available processor on the market.

    Dual core is coming(LTE too) but that doesn't mean the devices aren't going to be worth anything. RIM doesn't have to play leap-frog like all of these other manufactures. They only have to put out good solid HW & SW to be in the mix. All the while porting QNX to HH's which will put them ahead of said competition.
    Thank you for the correction. :-)
    03-22-11 08:15 PM
  3. papped's Avatar
    Why did we need GPS in vehicles when a map was perfectly fine? I for one look forward to the apps, programs etc that will be available in the future do to these "unnecessary" dual core's we have now.
    Kinda bad example, because one of the problems is trying to read a map while driving, or changing routes on the fly, which gps solved...
    03-22-11 08:15 PM
  4. oldbbuser's Avatar
    My wifes 3G iphone is less than 2 years old yet it can't load 4.3
    Now when we bought it it was cheaper than the 3GS. So there are tradeoffs..
    iPhone 3g release date: July 11, 2008. Released with ios 2.0. Major Release versions: 3.0; 3.1, 4.0, 4.1, 4.2 (along with many "point releases").

    BlackBerry Storm 2 release date: October 28, 2009. Released with 5.0. No major version upgrades, tons of "point" releases.

    I love my BB's but they don't do well in the upgradeability department.
    Last edited by oldbbuser; 03-22-11 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Spelling
    K Bear likes this.
    03-22-11 08:15 PM
  5. K Bear's Avatar
    HSPA is now promoted as 4G too not HSPA+

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Well, in the US, 3G is the original HSPA. HSPA+ is 4G (as in 4th generation). I don't know how it's being presented in the UK though.
    03-22-11 08:19 PM
  6. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Seeing's how i've been considering getting the Atrix now that it's released here in Canada..i've been doing alot of research and review homework. From what i've read..battery life is actually fairly good. Some people might not have the best battery life..but overall i'd say the general consensus is Good...and definately not "horrendous".

    Of course..it does come with a 1950mAh battery..so that should help alleviate any battery troubles.

    On topic..I don't get the whole "why do I need dual core?" argument. It's technology people..as hardware improves..so will software. People will be able to develop more in depth programs and such because the hardware is capable to run it. Helll..why did we need cars when carts and buggies were perfectly acceptable? Why did we need GPS in vehicles when a map was perfectly fine? I for one look forward to the apps, programs etc that will be available in the future do to these "unnecessary" dual core's we have now.
    Former Moderator Garz76(@deadolive on Twitter) had an Atrix and returned it because of the battery life. Current Moderator Duvi has one and he says the battery life is horrible as well. I've used one for a few days and it wasn't that good. Thing is, people who actually WANT a dual-core device are going to be the type that actually use the crap out of the device. Trying to get every bit out of it they can. Hence draining the battery.

    Thank you for the correction. :-)
    No worries. Thing is, a the 9700, 9800 & 9780 should definitely be at the minimum 7.2Mbps compat
    03-22-11 08:29 PM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Well, in the US, 3G is the original HSPA. HSPA+ is 4G (as in 4th generation). I don't know how it's being presented in the UK though.
    4G was meant to have speeds of 1Gb then they relaxed the standards to somehow include slower speeds, not even LTE would be up to the original 4G requirements. They're almost 4G, just not quite there yet. It's all a joke.
    Also no cdma network has real 3G as one of the requirements to call it 3G was simultaneous calls and data.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-22-11 08:30 PM
  8. shlammed's Avatar
    what good is having a dual core processor if your OS and the apps running on it don't know how to take advantage of it?

    If anything I'm glad RIM is waiting to prep their QNX OS for dual-core phones before coming out with them.
    03-22-11 08:39 PM
  9. shlammed's Avatar
    Seeing's how i've been considering getting the Atrix now that it's released here in Canada..i've been doing alot of research and review homework. From what i've read..battery life is actually fairly good. Some people might not have the best battery life..but overall i'd say the general consensus is Good...and definately not "horrendous".

    Of course..it does come with a 1950mAh battery..so that should help alleviate any battery troubles.

    On topic..I don't get the whole "why do I need dual core?" argument. It's technology people..as hardware improves..so will software. People will be able to develop more in depth programs and such because the hardware is capable to run it. Helll..why did we need cars when carts and buggies were perfectly acceptable? Why did we need GPS in vehicles when a map was perfectly fine? I for one look forward to the apps, programs etc that will be available in the future do to these "unnecessary" dual core's we have now.
    Again, you need an OS to take advantage of it first. It's like running 32-bit windows on a quad-core CPU. Pointless.
    03-22-11 08:41 PM
  10. K Bear's Avatar
    4G was meant to have speeds of 1Gb then they relaxed the standards to somehow include slower speeds, not even LTE would be up to the original 4G requirements. They're almost 4G, just not quite there yet. It's all a joke.
    Also no cdma network has real 3G as one of the requirements to call it 3G was simultaneous calls and data.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    There's a difference between 4G speed definition and 4G network development. HSPA+ is the 4th generation technology, but not quite 4G speed. Essentially it's all slick packaging, but it's where we ares at.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    03-22-11 08:49 PM
  11. K Bear's Avatar
    Again, you need an OS to take advantage of it first. It's like running 32-bit windows on a quad-core CPU. Pointless.
    2.3 can take advantage of the dual cores.
    03-22-11 08:51 PM
  12. The_Engine's Avatar
    Seeing's how i've been considering getting the Atrix now that it's released here in Canada..i've been doing alot of research and review homework. From what i've read..battery life is actually fairly good. Some people might not have the best battery life..but overall i'd say the general consensus is Good...and definately not "horrendous".

    Of course..it does come with a 1950mAh battery..so that should help alleviate any battery troubles.

    On topic..I don't get the whole "why do I need dual core?" argument. It's technology people..as hardware improves..so will software. People will be able to develop more in depth programs and such because the hardware is capable to run it. Helll..why did we need cars when carts and buggies were perfectly acceptable? Why did we need GPS in vehicles when a map was perfectly fine? I for one look forward to the apps, programs etc that will be available in the future do to these "unnecessary" dual core's we have now.
    I am with you here. Atrix reviews I have read say battery is awesome. And it should be: lower voltage chip, lower voltage ddr2 ram, and I even have read that the qHD display should require less power. And of course the battery is huge.

    It isn't selling because of its "faux G" speeds are much worse than the with3 G.

    And android runs dual core well. Its not 100% yet but there are benefits, especially under load.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Blacklatino likes this.
    03-22-11 08:56 PM
  13. avt123's Avatar
    2.3 can take advantage of the dual cores.
    I believe only Honeycomb can right now. 2.4 will bring dual core optimization to smartphones.
    03-22-11 08:57 PM
  14. shadboy's Avatar
    iPhone 3g release date: July 11, 2008. Released with ios 2.0. Major Release versions: 3.0; 3.1, 4.0, 4.1, 4.2 (along with many "point releases").

    BlackBerry Storm 2 release date: October 28, 2009. Released with 5.0. No major version upgrades, tons of "point" releases.

    I love my BB's but they don't do well in the upgradeability department.
    I am not saying they do. What I am saying is if you buy something today and the manufacture does not explicitly say you will be able to upgrade then you cannot expect your upgrade path to be limitless.

    My company has supported upgrades for 8 years on systems. If my customer buys a new system today and next month we come out with a new one and he complains to me I will ask him, does the system do what you paid for it to do? If you buy a phone, (which is very cheap compared to capital equipment) you can only expect exactly what you bought that day unless you were promised something else. Unless RIM explicitly says single core phone will get QNX upgrade then DO not expect it. Pretty simple if you ask me.
    03-22-11 10:29 PM
  15. howarmat's Avatar
    I am not saying they do. What I am saying is if you buy something today and the manufacture does not explicitly say you will be able to upgrade then you cannot expect your upgrade path to be limitless.

    My company has supported upgrades for 8 years on systems. If my customer buys a new system today and next month we come out with a new one and he complains to me I will ask him, does the system do what you paid for it to do? If you buy a phone, (which is very cheap compared to capital equipment) you can only expect exactly what you bought that day unless you were promised something else. Unless RIM explicitly says single core phone will get QNX upgrade then DO not expect it. Pretty simple if you ask me.
    i think if people buy a phone on a 2 year contract they expect reasonable support and updates for 2 years.

    Now i can admit i dont think rim or android actually do a good job of that. Apple does the best job in that dept i think.
    03-22-11 10:47 PM
  16. alby4ever's Avatar
    Dual-Core HH on the market: Motorola Atrix- Horrendous battery life
    Wow did you just make that up or flat-out lie? Because I have the Atrix and it has better battery life than the Bold 9000 I used to have, even though the Bold did 1/100th of what the Atrix could do. Look at the Atrix forums and tell me the % of posts talking about "horrendous battery life"? Yeah nice try there.
    03-23-11 01:45 AM
  17. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Dual-Core HH on the market: Motorola Atrix- Horrendous battery life
    All Motorola Atrix reviews I've seen have praised the battery life, even with heavy use. Not to mention the rest of what you had to say in your post (it was long so I snipped the quote) seems to run contrary to what every other blog/reviewer/nerdsite has had to say after test driving the recent LTE and Dual Core phones and running them through the ringer.

    I think you've got too much RIM on the brain.
    Last edited by rmjones101; 03-23-11 at 02:40 AM.
    03-23-11 02:33 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Wow did you just make that up or flat-out lie? Because I have the Atrix and it has better battery life than the Bold 9000 I used to have, even though the Bold did 1/100th of what the Atrix could do. Look at the Atrix forums and tell me the % of posts talking about "horrendous battery life"? Yeah nice try there.
    The 9000 did not have a very good battery life, the 9700 does.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-23-11 03:16 AM
  19. The_Engine's Avatar
    The 9000 did not have a very good battery life, the 9700 does.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Missed the point there just a tad.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-23-11 07:01 AM
  20. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    All Motorola Atrix reviews I've seen have praised the battery life, even with heavy use. Not to mention the rest of what you had to say in your post (it was long so I snipped the quote) seems to run contrary to what every other blog/reviewer/nerdsite has had to say after test driving the recent LTE and Dual Core phones and running them through the ringer.

    I think you've got too much RIM on the brain.
    You and the others can cite all the reviews you would like, I'm citing people I know who have used the device and hate the battery life. Furthermore, 1950mAh battery with only 5hrs 3G web browsing(anandtech) surely isn't GOOD battery life, IMO, not for 1950mAh.

    As for "the rest of what I had to say in my post" LTE is a killer on the battery and the only current LTE device isn't getting great battery life. I mean, there's a thread on android central for battery life complaints.
    03-23-11 07:48 AM
  21. i7guy's Avatar
    All Motorola Atrix reviews I've seen have praised the battery life, even with heavy use. Not to mention the rest of what you had to say in your post (it was long so I snipped the quote) seems to run contrary to what every other blog/reviewer/nerdsite has had to say after test driving the recent LTE and Dual Core phones and running them through the ringer.

    I think you've got too much RIM on the brain.
    I don't know I just finished reading a blog review supporting the assertion the battery life of the atrix is lousy.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-23-11 07:50 AM
  22. i7guy's Avatar
    Wow did you just make that up or flat-out lie? Because I have the Atrix and it has better battery life than the Bold 9000 I used to have, even though the Bold did 1/100th of what the Atrix could do. Look at the Atrix forums and tell me the % of posts talking about "horrendous battery life"? Yeah nice try there.
    Flat out lie? Making stuff up? Instead of calling someone a liar why can't you accept there is going to be a world of different opinions.

    I would believe his 'lies' over your 'truth'.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    FMB8900 likes this.
    03-23-11 07:56 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Missed the point there just a tad.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Well I hope you do realise how ridiculous comparing a 3+ year old phone to the Atrix is.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-23-11 08:12 AM
  24. The_Engine's Avatar
    From the Engadget Review of the Optimus 2x, which has the chip, Tegra 2, and the Atrix and bionic:

    Once you get past those well executed headline features, however, there's a certain scarcity of real utility to be had from this dual-core chip. The trouble is that smartphones haven't really lacked for processing firepower in a good long while. What applications do you run on your mobile that can choke a 1GHz CPU, whether it be a Snapdragon, Hummingbird or an A4? There aren't many, right? And there are even fewer that have such a demanding overhead while running in the background -- which happens to be NVIDIA's big selling point for Tegra 2, that it allows you to multitask without ever getting bogged down. The chart below illustrates this well, but it also provides your absolute best case scenario -- you'll need to be engaged in a CPU-intensive process while decoding music in the background, another CPU job, and downloading / installing applications. As soon as you back off, say by switching off the background music and allowing your foreground process to have all the processing power (and thereby complete its task more quickly), the benefits of having a dual-core machine will become far less tangible.

    The conclusion therefore is that, yes, multitasking maniacs will find their mobile lives accelerated by having that second core, but the rest of the world might very well shrug its shoulders and ask "is that it?" Like a city dweller owning a supercar, the Tegra 2 buyer will have to be wary of the fact that his hardware will far exceed his daily needs and will only show its true, brilliant colors on rare occasions and under just the right circumstances.
    Here is the full link, (there is a graph with some benchmarks in the middle of what I quoted):
    LG Optimus 2X review -- Engadget

    I think this is where there is confusion on the whole Dual core thing. Many people see Dual Core and are expecting twice the performance. That just won't happen, even if the OS is SMP. In the review above, he talks about shutting down music, and other background processes to regain performance. You should not have to do that IMHO. What you ultimately get out of Multi-Core processing is more scalability. Performance gains are seen because the CPU(s) are doing 2 tasks at once. They aren't executing the tasks faster, but may appear that there is less lag and faster turn around of executions.

    Think of a toll booth. With one booth open you are fine until several cars get in line. Even then you may flow through pretty easily. But open that second booth, and now those several cars can divide and move through both booths. The toll Takers in the Booths aren't moving any faster then when there was one open, however the wait for the cars to move through is reduced. The benefit of the second booth to the driver is marginal to non existent when there are just a few cars moving through. However the more cars that are queuing up, the bigger the benefit becomes of that second, or third booth become.

    So if you like to surf multiple pages at the same time (tabbed browser), check and post to Twitter, and Stream or playback music, than this would help you a lot. That is what I am looking for because as I am downloading pages on CB or AC, or wherever in Opera Mini (and BTW OM 6 is frakin fast), checking out Twitter, and either streaming Pandora or just playback some music i would prefer the device to keep up with me.

    Also since Dual Core is the future (Apple = A5+iOS5, Android=Tegra/SnapDragon+Honeycomb/IceCream, RIM= QNX+TI) I believe the OS's and Apps will continue to refine and update the Dual Core usage over the life cycle of the device I am buying. Not to mention software developers will start to build more intensive apps now that the platforms can handle them. So having single core will start to create some limits over the next 18-24 months.

    I am not blessed like some of you where I can get a new device every year, or even more frequently, so I want my investment to count.

    So think of this post when people start ranting that Dual Core is useless or a gimic. The reality is that it won't benefit some users, but it will make a difference to others. You have to know what you plan to do with the device to make the right decision for you.
    howarmat and 1magine like this.
    03-23-11 08:45 AM
  25. i7guy's Avatar
    Well I hope you do realise how ridiculous comparing a 3+ year old phone to the Atrix is.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Sometimes the obvious gets lost in the hubris. Great point.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-23-11 09:25 AM
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