03-27-11 10:05 PM
148 1234 ...
tools
  1. dooodads's Avatar
    There's a conflict in that statement... A LOT of the people that would use their phones for 2 years don't consider their phone a POS because a new OS is available and they can't use it...

    And frankly this brings to question Android and 3rd party manufacturers even releasing OS updates even if they could be supported... Not everyone knows what rooting + custom flashing is or even does it...
    And once again, you're basically making excuses for RIM, something their fans have been doing for a long time. Why do it when not a lot of people will notice? Well that's what separates companies in elite status. And android is another beast that you can't even compare to Blackberry, because of how that OS is distributed.
    03-22-11 03:51 PM
  2. howarmat's Avatar
    There's a conflict in that statement... A LOT of the people that would use their phones for 2 years don't consider their phone a POS because a new OS is available and they can't use it...

    And frankly this brings to question Android and 3rd party manufacturers even releasing OS updates even if they could be supported... Not everyone knows what rooting + custom flashing is or even does it...
    so when the storm 2 was bounced from getting os 6 you dont think people were pissed and didnt think their phone was a POS that was getting neglected?
    Last edited by howarmat; 03-22-11 at 04:14 PM.
    03-22-11 04:02 PM
  3. papped's Avatar
    And once again, you're basically making excuses for RIM, something their fans have been doing for a long time. Why do it when not a lot of people will notice? Well that's what separates companies in elite status. And android is another beast that you can't even compare to Blackberry, because of how that OS is distributed.
    This has nothing to do with RIM. This is about OS updates and phone hardware in general. Reading what you want I guess...
    03-22-11 04:05 PM
  4. papped's Avatar
    so when the storm 2 was bounced from getting os 6 you dont think people were pissed and didnt think there phone was a POS that was getting neglected?
    Are you confusing the forum poster minorities with the general public? Again, you are of a particular mindset that the general populous is not.
    03-22-11 04:05 PM
  5. dooodads's Avatar
    This has nothing to do with RIM. This is about OS updates and phone hardware in general. Reading what you want I guess...
    I think you're insane. You're arguing with me when all I'm saying is that if RIM wants to release a phone 6 or so months into the year and then plans to release the big OS upgrade next year, it would be kind of stupid for them to not be able to support the phones releasing from june-december. What's so unreasonable about that? What aren't you getting here? Of course it's about RIM, it's about them offering value, being a good company, showing a lot of support for their devices. At this point it seems like they're going OUT OF THEIR WAY to offer less than the competition.

    But according to you it's A-OK because the majority won't notice.
    03-22-11 04:13 PM
  6. papped's Avatar
    I think you're insane. You're arguing with me when all I'm saying is that if RIM wants to release a phone 6 or so months into the year and then plans to release the big OS upgrade next year, it would be kind of stupid for them to not be able to support the phones releasing from june-december. What's so unreasonable about that? What aren't you getting here? Of course it's about RIM, it's about them offering value, being a good company, showing a lot of support for their devices. At this point it seems like they're going OUT OF THEIR WAY to offer less than the competition.

    But according to you it's A-OK because the majority won't notice.
    I get that your issues are with RIM. You have repressed issues that need public venting, I get it... The conversation I am having with other level-headed people is not...
    03-22-11 04:13 PM
  7. dooodads's Avatar
    I get that your issues are with RIM. You have repressed issues that need public venting, I get it... The conversation I am having with other level-headed people is not...
    1) you're so passive aggressive it's sad. Repressed issues? lol thanks doctor.

    2) someone disagrees with you and they are not level-headed.

    You started this discussion not me. I said RIM should offer dual core for various reasons and then you said they shouldn't. I gave you a bunch of reasons why they should, you have nothing else to say because what I'm saying is common sense, so now you're resorting to personal attacks. If you're gonna throw those out then fine, but at least throw something worthwhile in there to go with it.
    revo2001 likes this.
    03-22-11 04:16 PM
  8. papped's Avatar
    It's not the disagreeing, it's the twisting of issues.

    Howarmat is disagreeing with me, but he used a rim device simply as an example. He didn't imagine in his head that I'm defending RIMs tactics and priorities.

    PS. find the post where i said RIM should not offer dual core phones... I'll be here...

    Reality vs la-la-land...
    03-22-11 04:18 PM
  9. dooodads's Avatar
    It's not the disagreeing, it's the twisting of issues.

    Howarmat is disagreeing with me, but he used a rim device simply as an example. He didn't imagine in his head that I'm defending RIMs tactics and priorities.

    PS. find the post where i said RIM should not offer dual core phones... I'll be here...

    Reality vs la-la-land...
    Soooo what does this look like:
    You are a very small, small minority... Most of the people who will actually keep their phones 2 years aren't even going to understand what dual core means. Something like the Inspire 4g/EVO is likely to have a broader appeal to them than the Atrix...

    People who care heavily about dual core (reference Engadget readers who don't want to look at a phone unless it has dual core now) will be lucky to be using the same phone 6 to 8 months after purchase...
    So I said RIM should add dual core for the reasons mentioned before me, and also the reason I mentioned. Then you replied to that. What you're basically saying is:

    1) RIM shouldn't include it because we're a minority
    2) Then you made a generalization that people who want dual core upgrade their phones frequently, which is just that, a generalization, and it's also a straw-man

    You failed to realize that when the Evo launched it was ahead of it's time, hence future-proofing, which is why it was so appealing.

    So what I said was RIM should include dual core because being a minority doesn't mean you can ignore them when you can easily do that, especially when you've gone on the record saying you're waiting for dual core AND the next OS needs to support it.

    And then you resorted to a variety of extremely sad personal attacks.

    edit: didn't see your edited post. Dude don't give me this technicality garbage. You know I was talking about RIM. Who else would we be talking about. This whole topic is about how other companies are releasing dual core/4g and RIM is not.
    03-22-11 04:24 PM
  10. papped's Avatar
    -No mention of RIM
    -Stating that dual core is not mandatory, this goes for Android, iOS, <insert OS here>
    -No mention that dual core should not be released...

    You read what you want to read, that's all there is to it... You've done it multiple times now
    03-22-11 04:25 PM
  11. dooodads's Avatar
    You're not getting this. WHO ELSE WOULD I BE TALKING ABOUT. I'm on crackberry.com. Get over yourself.
    03-22-11 04:27 PM
  12. papped's Avatar
    Optometrist appointments should be scheduled once every 1-2 years btw... You only get one set of eyes, can't be too careful...
    03-22-11 04:28 PM
  13. dooodads's Avatar
    -Stating that dual core is not mandatory, this goes for Android, iOS, <insert OS here>
    -No mention that dual core should not be released...
    1) So your position is that dual core is not mandatory therefore it should not be included. Umm NOTHING IS MANDATORY so should everyone not bother including everything. That argument is invalid. It's called a standard and it is the new standard.

    2) Yeah you're not saying it SHOULDN'T be released, but you're saying it doesn't matter. When my whole POINT is that it does indeed matter for a variety of reasons.

    But yeah continue crying about it.
    03-22-11 04:31 PM
  14. papped's Avatar
    K, by that notion all dual core android phones will outsell any of the single core phones released by a wide margin.

    We will see (ha....)
    03-22-11 04:32 PM
  15. dooodads's Avatar
    K, by that notion all dual core android phones will outsell any of the single core phones released by a wide margin.

    We will see (ha....)
    And I'm the one reading what I want to read? Where did I mention anywhere that dual core will outsell single core? And actually, even if I did say that, which I didn't, you'd be wrong. Because when the iPhone 5 comes out with a dual core processor it will inevitably outsell everything else by a wide margin as a single phone.

    But yeah I never said it will help sell more, another straw-man argument. All I'm saying is that companies should offer it because they can, it's readily available, it's not that expensive to include, it has far more benefits than it has negatives (not even sure it has any negatives).
    03-22-11 04:34 PM
  16. papped's Avatar
    So it's the standard, but not necessarily a standard that more people are buying and is under-manufactured compared to alternatives?

    I thought standards had to be widespread... And what do you call the effectiveness of a "standard" that is not adopted very much...
    03-22-11 04:38 PM
  17. dooodads's Avatar
    So it's the standard, but not necessarily a standard that more people are buying and is under-manufactured compared to alternatives?

    I thought standards had to be widespread... And what do you call the effectiveness of a "standard" that is not adopted very much...
    Well there is no hard-definition on what makes something a standard on technology but I consider something standard when it's adopted by the majority of the industry, when it makes more sense to have it than not have it simply because there is no real downside and lots of upside.

    I don't know how you can say it's not adopted very much. Pretty much every big smartphone manufacturer is moving or has moved to dual core already, I think RIM will be the one company that doesn't. Though anything could change, they might surprise, but for some reason I doubt it.
    03-22-11 04:40 PM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The only reason Rim will ever make dual core phones is to keep up with the competition. There's nothing that a blackberry does now that requires dual core therefore I don't need dual core. I don't need hardcore games on my phone, what else would dualcore be for?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-22-11 04:51 PM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Well there is no hard-definition on what makes something a standard on technology but I consider something standard when it's adopted by the majority of the industry, when it makes more sense to have it than not have it simply because there is no real downside and lots of upside.

    I don't know how you can say it's not adopted very much. Pretty much every big smartphone manufacturer is moving or has moved to dual core already, I think RIM will be the one company that doesn't. Though anything could change, they might surprise, but for some reason I doubt it.
    Once an Android manufacturer brings out a dual core the others have no chioice but to follow don't they?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-22-11 04:53 PM
  20. shadboy's Avatar
    by future proof i think he means 2 years with updates and future OS. for some people they actually will use their device for 2 years or close to it. **** if RIM gives the BBs due in fall a dual core processor and OS 6.1 i would hope you can then load QNX OS in spring of 2012. But if they are single core devices and then you have QNX released 5 months later you single core phone is a POS basically now.
    My wifes 3G iphone is less than 2 years old yet it can't load 4.3
    Now when we bought it it was cheaper than the 3GS. So there are tradeoffs.

    My company is going to release a new platform next year with new software. It won't work with the hardware we are currently selling. Should our salesforce quit selling cause we know the older systems can't run the new. We will still support the older software.

    Our customers are not promised that current platforms will get new software forever. You have to have a cutoff at sometime.
    03-22-11 05:12 PM
  21. K Bear's Avatar
    How exactly do you "future proof" a device that's gonna have 6 months shelf life? No manufacturer will ever be interested in making a future proof device.

    The guy who posted earlier is right, out 9700, 9780 and Torches(maybe even the 9000) are now by definition 4G devices.

    I fail to see where exactly you would benefit from a dual core on a mobile phone, tablets and laptops yes but a smart phone? It would have to be only some very intensive game or something.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The 9000, 9700, 9780, & 9800 are not 4G devices, they are 3G devices since they cannot use HSPA+ 14.4 & up. The Bold series & Torch are capped out at 7.2.
    03-22-11 06:08 PM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The 9000, 9700, 9780, & 9800 are not 4G devices, they are 3G devices since they cannot use HSPA+ 14.4 & up. The Bold series & Torch are capped out at 7.2.
    HSPA is now promoted as 4G too not HSPA+

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-22-11 06:13 PM
  23. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    The 9000, 9700, 9780, & 9800 are not 4G devices, they are 3G devices since they cannot use HSPA+ 14.4 & up. The Bold series & Torch are capped out at 7.2.
    No the devices you listed are only 3.6Mbps. Not even 7.2Mbps.


    As for the whole dual core & 4G, let's take a look at it.

    Dual-Core HH on the market: Motorola Atrix- Horrendous battery life

    4G(LTE) device on the market: HTC ThunderBolt- Equally horrendous battery life.

    Handhelds are not ready for LTE. Especially if you are in the Enterprise world and have to actually use your phone for work. Nobody wants to HAVE to charge their device 3 times a day for it to last all day. Nobody wants to HAVE to carry around multiple CHARGED batteries. And lastly, nobody wants to HAVE to use a HUGE extended-life battery for it to last the entire day. This isn't sufficient in the corporate world. Furthermore, most consumers don't want to do this either. This will surely change with time, but not right now. Not the Q2. The device will have to be quite big for a big enough battery to last close to a full day on LTE. Hence why Apple is waiting until 2012 for LTE.

    Dual-core: For Android handhelds, it's absolutely useless right now as they have no SMP compatibility. In the future yes, but not now. Obviously the new craze is dual core and they're coming fast, like it or not. Obviously when the i5 comes, it'll be dual core and be optimized for it. As will other devices, eventually. Thing is the i4 is single core and it's as fast as the Atrix by a country mile(easily).
    I see no reason why RIM shouldn't move to dual core. And they are. Currently dual-core devices are being tested within the RIM dev team. Thing is, just because a phone that comes out in 2011 doesn't have a dual core processor doesn't make it obsolete. Not everyone is a spec junkie and worried about having the fastest available processor on the market.

    Dual core is coming(LTE too) but that doesn't mean the devices aren't going to be worth anything. RIM doesn't have to play leap-frog like all of these other manufactures. They only have to put out good solid HW & SW to be in the mix. All the while porting QNX to HH's which will put them ahead of said competition.
    03-22-11 06:33 PM
  24. Rickroller's Avatar
    Dual-Core HH on the market: Motorola Atrix- Horrendous battery life
    Seeing's how i've been considering getting the Atrix now that it's released here in Canada..i've been doing alot of research and review homework. From what i've read..battery life is actually fairly good. Some people might not have the best battery life..but overall i'd say the general consensus is Good...and definately not "horrendous".

    Of course..it does come with a 1950mAh battery..so that should help alleviate any battery troubles.

    On topic..I don't get the whole "why do I need dual core?" argument. It's technology people..as hardware improves..so will software. People will be able to develop more in depth programs and such because the hardware is capable to run it. Helll..why did we need cars when carts and buggies were perfectly acceptable? Why did we need GPS in vehicles when a map was perfectly fine? I for one look forward to the apps, programs etc that will be available in the future do to these "unnecessary" dual core's we have now.
    revo2001 and 1magine like this.
    03-22-11 07:08 PM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    No the devices you listed are only 3.6Mbps. Not even 7.2Mbps.

    .
    Those are "up to" speeds, in reality I doubt anybody in UK ever gets close to that. HSPA+ probably gives the speeds HSPA should give, if even that.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-22-11 07:11 PM
148 1234 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD