06-21-11 06:56 AM
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  1. CGI's Avatar
    Is RIM really in trouble, or has their position in the smartphone market just evolved into where they were destined to be?

    Not to mention; being the 3rd most popular choice and profitable isn't a failed business.

    Android and Apple are built for multimedia. Their large screens and developer friendly OS was bound to attract users who want their phone to double as entertainment.

    A keyboard phone can't compete with that. Regardless of how well RIM develops the OS, having a smaller screen (w/keyboard) will always be an inferior performer for multimedia. To that point, probably most everyone reading this post owns a big screen TV... right?

    So, unless Blackberry want's to ditch their bread and butter keyboard, they'll probably always be relegated to 3rd place. And... what's wrong with that?

    Cultivate that fanbase, and perhaps grow it slightly by embracing and continuously improving their superior attributes;

    1. Keyboard. They have a market of people that love a real keyboard. It really is a black and white preference for people.

    2. Messaging. Yes, the other platforms have messaging, but Blackberry's email, txt, twitter, and bbm is king. If you do a lot of these things, Blackberry wins hands down. (This will spark debate with touchscreen people, but owning both I can't be swayed in this argument)

    3. Security and BES integration.

    They also have a load of features equal to other devices; the phone, music, camera, calendar, tasks, etc.

    Blackberry comes up short on games, multimedia like youtube and video, and browsing. But again, will they ever really compete in those areas on keyboard built devices?

    So, are they really failing?

    There are a ton of people just like me who prefer what they do well over the multimedia benefits. Reality is, it is a smaller market and it's no wonder they've fallen to 3rd place. What's wrong with 3rd place, being damn good at what you do, and being profitable?
    06-18-11 11:54 AM
  2. jebulls's Avatar
    If they make the right improvements and make an dev friendly os, a full touch screen is not needed to compete at all. I mean of coarse people out there might want a full touch screen. But the BT version that can do everything an iphone can do and have basically same amount of apps to choose from and get the same type of speed out of the phone it will very much be in the mix. Not everyone wants a full touchscreen, so that means all that should be offered is basically a messaging phone with email? RIM could have done much better! A lot of people must have had their head stuck in the sand somewhere!
    06-18-11 12:03 PM
  3. CGI's Avatar
    If they make the right improvements and make an dev friendly os, a full touch screen is not needed to compete at all. I mean of coarse people out there might want a full touch screen. But the BT version that can do everything an iphone can do and have basically same amount of apps to choose from and get the same type of speed out of the phone it will very much be in the mix. Not everyone wants a full touchscreen, so that means all that should be offered is basically a messaging phone with email? RIM could have done much better! A lot of people must have had their head stuck in the sand somewhere!
    No doubt they need to get the hardware (processor mainly) in line.

    They also need a workable browser for the basics.

    But again; if you want full multimedia I doubt you'll choose a phone with keyboard/small screen. If your bread and butter is keyboard phones, they have fallen where you'd expect them in the market right now.
    06-18-11 12:20 PM
  4. Xopher's Avatar
    I think the big news (and hopefully a wakeup call) was that one of their major investors pulled out Friday. That is probably the hardest hit to them throughout all of this.

    I understand everything that was said during the investors call, and finally admitting they fell behind. No matter what devices they bring to market, for them to pull out of this freefall, they need to step things up and start delivering.

    When the Pearl and Curve came to market, they were on top of their game. The Bold 9000 was a good device, but with the iPhone coming to market just before the Bold release, that was the right time for RIM to step up the development cycle. By the time the Storm and Tour came to market, they were a year behind other devices on the market. With the 9700 and 9650, the small incremental changes brought them almost two years behind everyone else. To really be back up to the fast-pace move of the current market, the 9900 should have been ready in January (with the current specs). Coming out with new devices this summer/fall will still have them with some catching up to do. They just need to ramp up the next set of offerings to be available early 2012 instead of late 2012. That doesn't mean just having touchscreen devices, but having something that appeals to people as they walk into the store. Right now, the Curve 9300 looks like the 8500, which looks like the 8300 from 5+ years ago.

    The image I get is RIM driving 45 in the fast lane wondering why everyone is passing them by at 70.
    K Bear, kevinnugent and howarmat like this.
    06-18-11 12:41 PM
  5. jthep's Avatar
    I think thats what hurt the Torch, was its tech was far behind the iPhone 4 in processing power, screen resolution, and it only came with a 4Gig SD card.

    The Torch is actually a fairly solid multimedia phone with a touch screen and a QWERTY keyboard with trackpad, great design. Would luv to see a QNX Torch, I'm there!!!
    06-18-11 12:57 PM
  6. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    As Snapple in Canada once advertised. Threedom is freedom, you don't have to beat "coke" "pepsi" to be successful, just offer something people will want


    Sure I'd love to see RIM embrace a robust app environment and build a solid portfolio of phones that can use it, and them come back to the glory days of 2006-2007.

    But I won't be changing platforms if they don't, I'll only change if someone offers me at least a comparable blackberry experience, as long as RIM stays consistent with the UI, and form factor I don't see myself moving. And many feel the same way

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    gravymonster and Fatoomah like this.
    06-18-11 01:10 PM
  7. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    As Snapple in Canada once advertised. Threedom is freedom, you don't have to beat "coke" "pepsi" to be successful, just offer something people will want


    Sure I'd love to see RIM embrace a robust app environment and build a solid portfolio of phones that can use it, and them come back to the glory days of 2006-2007.

    But I won't be changing platforms if they don't, I'll only change if someone offers me at least a comparable blackberry experience, as long as RIM stays consistent with the UI, and form factor I don't see myself moving. And many feel the same way

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The "rule of 3" tends to apply in almost all business markets. There tend to usually be 3 competitors. For instance, in fast-food burgers, there are McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's. In gaming consoles, there are XBox, Nintendo, and Playstation.

    Therefore, I think there will be some other smartphone platform besides Android and iOS.

    Right now, I would say RIM needs to be more concerned with Microsoft than Android and iOS. Android and iOS are not going away. Currently Microsoft is a very small player, but it will be interesting to see what they do, since they are going to have their OS on all the Nokia phones. They also just bought Skype. They could be a huge failure, but given that they have been working on acquisitions and wooing developers, they could also have a huge hit in the future.

    Another concern is in business. Since most businesses already use Exchange, Microsoft could benefit from businesses adopting their Win7 phones.
    06-18-11 01:34 PM
  8. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    Nothing at all is wrong with being in third place. Honestly, all the threads predicting the end for RIM need to be put in a garbage section on Crackberry!
    06-18-11 01:56 PM
  9. jebulls's Avatar
    As Snapple in Canada once advertised. Threedom is freedom, you don't have to beat "coke" "pepsi" to be successful, just offer something people will want


    Sure I'd love to see RIM embrace a robust app environment and build a solid portfolio of phones that can use it, and them come back to the glory days of 2006-2007.

    But I won't be changing platforms if they don't, I'll only change if someone offers me at least a comparable blackberry experience, as long as RIM stays consistent with the UI, and form factor I don't see myself moving. And many feel the same way

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Less and less people are feeling this way.....
    06-18-11 04:51 PM
  10. big_time2's Avatar
    Less and less people are feeling this way.....
    As long as there are enough people to feel this way RIM will stay in business and we will continue to get the phones we want. It just adds to the competition, which is always good for consumers.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-18-11 05:21 PM
  11. Jake Storm's Avatar
    Less and less people are feeling this way.....
    Don't confuse declining market share with declining user base.
    There are just as many (more actually) people that feel this way this year compared to last year.
    06-18-11 09:34 PM
  12. pkcable's Avatar
    They are in 3rd and they have not released a phone is I can't remember when! That's not so bad! Perhaps when they FINALLY get the 7.0 phones out they can gain some ground again.
    06-18-11 09:54 PM
  13. BoldtotheMax's Avatar
    I am not worried. I don't see RIM falling wayside like Palm or Nokia did, so right now we are in 3rd, which is solid IMO in the tech world of smartphones.

    There are many more consumers than there are business useers and BB has been geared toward business for years, but slowly has moved into mixing business with pleasure which is usually a recepie for disaster. Here it is a good thing.

    Once we get more updated specs out into the real world, we will be fine IMHO....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-18-11 11:26 PM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Some many years ago I got a bronze medal in world canoeing championships, was that a failure? I was pretty damn happy about it at the time

    Rim has an active blackberry in the hands of 10 times the population of Ireland, think about that for a second. That's a lot of people. I would not call it a failure.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-20-11 04:52 AM
  15. ADGrant's Avatar
    A keyboard phone can't compete with that. Regardless of how well RIM develops the OS, having a smaller screen (w/keyboard) will always be an inferior performer for multimedia. To that point, probably most everyone reading this post owns a big screen TV... right?

    So, unless Blackberry want's to ditch their bread and butter keyboard, they'll probably always be relegated to 3rd place. And... what's wrong with that?
    The keyboard is not what is holding RIM back, its probably what is keeping them in the game in the consumer market.

    What is holding them back is a lack of app developer support and an ancient "cloud" infrastructure.
    06-20-11 09:22 AM
  16. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    To really be back up to the fast-pace move of the current market, the 9900 should have been ready in January (with the current specs). Coming out with new devices this summer/fall will still have them with some catching up to do. They just need to ramp up the next set of offerings to be available early 2012 instead of late 2012. That doesn't mean just having touchscreen devices, but having something that appeals to people as they walk into the store. Right now, the Curve 9300 looks like the 8500, which looks like the 8300 from 5+ years ago.

    The image I get is RIM driving 45 in the fast lane wondering why everyone is passing them by at 70.
    +1

    RIM releases what? One phone a year if we're lucky? Androids are rolling off the production lines every other month it seems and the last new phone we got was what? The Torch a year ago and that stupid makeup compact looking phone.

    Releasing phones that are the exact same thing over and over again will never get RIM ahead of Android and Apple. The Curve has been released and re-released and now will be re-re-released. Same thing with the Bold.
    06-20-11 10:19 AM
  17. Snick Snack's Avatar
    +1

    RIM releases what? One phone a year if we're lucky? Androids are rolling off the production lines every other month it seems and the last new phone we got was what? The Torch a year ago and that stupid makeup compact looking phone.

    Releasing phones that are the exact same thing over and over again will never get RIM ahead of Android and Apple. The Curve has been released and re-released and now will be re-re-released. Same thing with the Bold.
    Android is produce by many phone manufacturers not by one company therefore they can be popping out an Android phone every 6 months. No comparison. And they're all still running the same OS as Honeycomb is not fully out yet.

    Apple puts out a phone between 12-16 months.

    Rim should've release more then the Torch last year and not give AT&T the exclusive, which I'm sure they've learned never to give another exclusive to anybody else.

    Curve is a huge seller so they'll keep tweaking and upgrading. Why shouldn't they? Kind of like the Camaro, always been around and somebody will always want one.
    06-20-11 05:53 PM
  18. Economist101's Avatar
    Android is produce by many phone manufacturers not by one company therefore they can be popping out an Android phone every 6 months. No comparison. And they're all still running the same OS as Honeycomb is not fully out yet.
    Actually Android devices are NOT running the same OS since different manufacturers update their devices at different times. Also, none of the Android phones run HoneyComb as it is a tablet-only release.

    Rim should've release more then the Torch last year and not give AT&T the exclusive, which I'm sure they've learned never to give another exclusive to anybody else.
    Exclusives are fine as long as people are demanding the product.
    06-20-11 06:05 PM
  19. Snick Snack's Avatar
    Actually Android devices are NOT running the same OS since different manufacturers update their devices at different times. Also, none of the Android phones run HoneyComb as it is a tablet-only release.



    Exclusives are fine as long as people are demanding the product.
    Sorry I'm of opinion exclusives do not work with "consumable" items. It's not a piece of clothing...

    I've dealt with manufacturers in my industry who have gone exclusive with certain distributor and found they've shot themselves in the foot as well. When you're exclusive you're bound to peeved somebody off at some point and that's not a good thing for a business.
    06-20-11 06:12 PM
  20. howarmat's Avatar
    iphone did pretty good for being an "exclusive"
    06-20-11 07:16 PM
  21. Snick Snack's Avatar
    iphone did pretty good for being an "exclusive"
    iPHones were never carrier exclusive in Canada.
    06-20-11 07:24 PM
  22. howarmat's Avatar
    true it wasnt in other parts of the world either. I think the US is the only place where "exclusives" exist. The torch was available to most carriers in canada too i would presume?
    06-20-11 07:31 PM
  23. Snick Snack's Avatar
    true it wasnt in other parts of the world either. I think the US is the only place where "exclusives" exist. The torch was available to most carriers in canada too i would presume?
    Yep launched at all the carriers at the same time.

    The only difference is on one carrier you can get the Torch in candy apple red and on mine you could get it in white.

    I can deal with that kind of exclusivity.

    I love my BB but I just don't think that their phones have enough "wow" factor to survive on exclusive in US market and I didn't really see AT&T flog the heck out of it. In fact I saw more ads from the Canadian carriers flogging it! I kind of think AT&T may have sold Rim the bill of goods by saying give us the exclusive and we'll sell tons. I've heard that story many times in many different industries...
    06-20-11 07:37 PM
  24. CGI's Avatar
    The keyboard is not what is holding RIM back, its probably what is keeping them in the game in the consumer market.

    What is holding them back is a lack of app developer support and an ancient "cloud" infrastructure.
    Exactly my point. It's keeping them in their piece of the market... people who prioritize messaging over media.

    Even if they had apps... even if they had "cloud"... people that want media aren't buying keyboard phones with smaller screens.
    06-20-11 08:31 PM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    I like the idea of the torch mainly because I like the keyboard but could use a larger screen for my older eyes.
    06-20-11 08:39 PM
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