05-20-12 05:57 AM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Complete rubbish to say BIS is the blackberry experience, so many things it is applauded for you don't experience they just happen - like security, and data compression. Only thing you properly experience is push, and I'm sure the minds at RIM can come up with an alternative that doesn't require full on BIS.

    Whilst security is great, most consumers don't need it to the extent it occurs at the moment - certainly not all data needs to go through RIM's servers, web browsing could be spared this for the gain in speed we would get. Messaging, particularly BBM would still have to go through RIM's servers to some extent, giving security over them, but this wouldn't require all out BIS. Most of the consumer security concerns on other platforms are more to do with app permissions over access to data, which BIS doesn't help with. BIS doesn't provide anywhere near the same security as BES also.

    Finally, compression - isn't a huge thing for me, and I've read elsewhere on the forums it doesn't work for pictures/videos etc. so you only save on the text and the like of web pages which means it isn't that significant. Admittedly I don't know much about this myself but I'm personally not swayed by it.

    Also, from RIM's perspective: if it scraps BIS it's not going to drive people who like it away - they have no where else to get such a solution - whilst it might bring back consumers. BIS as a concept isn't very consumer friendly, and certainly if it stays there should be no consumer facing mention of it in the OS.
    I'm not most consumers and I'm not you either, some 4 years ago a choose Blackberry because I needed fast emails for my hosted account and I've come to love the experience.

    Thorsten has made it clear they don't want most consumers, they want the ones that want to get things done fast.

    I'm one of the blackberry people.

    Manufacturers and carriers put a product on the shelves, choose the one suits you best. Don't complain afterwards and ask for change.
    05-17-12 12:13 PM
  2. gtpointer's Avatar
    I'm not most consumers and I'm not you either, some 4 years ago a choose Blackberry because I needed fast emails for my hosted account and I've come to love the experience.

    Thorsten has made it clear they don't want most consumers, they want the ones that want to get things done fast.

    I'm one of the blackberry people.

    Manufacturers and carriers put a product on the shelves, choose the one suits you best. Don't complain afterwards and ask for change.
    I know you're not me (ha - this is a ridiculous statement ) or most consumers. I was merely giving it from my perspective and the consumers RIM needs to win back. It doesn't need to win you back, it's most likely you aren't going anywhere with or without BIS. RIM can't just focus on retaining those who are still users who are "people who get things done fast". It still has to appeal to a broader range of consumers than it does at the moment. People left BB despite this being important to them because it wasn't consumer friendly enough, and I'm saying these people are part of the group Thorsten was talking about, they're just want to get things done in a consumer friendly package.

    I am not complaining after purchasing, I'm very happy with my BB, it's the phone that suited me best when I bought it and still does now, even with the arrivals since then. All I'm saying is given the clean slate RIM has with BB10, I would scrap BIS (in its current form at least). It is entirely possible to get things done quickly without BIS.

    You seem to think I'm hating on BB, when all I'm saying is this is something I'd change come BB10 - everyone has their list of things, this is one of mine. Heck, I'll still get a BB10 phone even if it has BIS, and in fact the previews shown at bb world have made me consider getting a full touch phone for the first time I was that impressed.
    05-17-12 12:34 PM
  3. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I know you're not me (ha - this is a ridiculous statement ) or most consumers. I was merely giving it from my perspective and the consumers RIM needs to win back. It doesn't need to win you back, it's most likely you aren't going anywhere with or without BIS. RIM can't just focus on retaining those who are still users who are "people who get things done fast". It still has to appeal to a broader range of consumers than it does at the moment. People left BB despite this being important to them because it wasn't consumer friendly enough, and I'm saying these people are part of the group Thorsten was talking about, they're just want to get things done in a consumer friendly package.

    I am not complaining after purchasing, I'm very happy with my BB, it's the phone that suited me best when I bought it and still does now, even with the arrivals since then. All I'm saying is given the clean slate RIM has with BB10, I would scrap BIS (in its current form at least). It is entirely possible to get things done quickly without BIS.

    You seem to think I'm hating on BB, when all I'm saying is this is something I'd change come BB10 - everyone has their list of things, this is one of mine. Heck, I'll still get a BB10 phone even if it has BIS, and in fact the previews shown at bb world have made me consider getting a full touch phone for the first time I was that impressed.
    Lol, yeah but you see, some things sit at opposite ends and you simply can't have it all. Compression is not important to you but it's essential to me for example, some don't give a crap about security, some do, some want a big touch screen, some want a big qwerty and my wife for example would not use anything bigger than a Pearl. Helll, some don't even want/need BBM and it's practically my social network, I use it far more than Facebook or Twitter.

    So if RIM gives in to you that might ruin the experience for me
    05-17-12 12:43 PM
  4. gtpointer's Avatar
    Lol, yeah but you see, some things sit at opposite ends and you simply can't have it all. Compression is not important to you but it's essential to me for example, some don't give a crap about security, some do, some want a big touch screen, some want a big qwerty and my wife for example would not use anything bigger than a Pearl. Helll, some don't even want/need BBM and it's practically my social network, I use it far more than Facebook or Twitter.

    So if RIM gives in to you that might ruin the experience for me
    Yeah I know that, and so companies have to find compromises (unless you're apple, in which case the consumer has to find compromises ) and my point with BIS is...would you leave BB if they scrapped it? No other company (to my knowledge) offers anything like it, and then you'd just have to choose a phone based upon which helps you get things done quickly, which I'm guessing would still be BB. So RIM keeps you as a customer, and reins in a few "general" consumers. Appealing individually to too many consumers is expensive (hence the reduction in lines of phones with BB10).

    Incidentally, roaming charges from NI to ROI are harsh, but I suppose that's what it's like on mainland Europe as well...hence the EU stepping in to reduce them I suppose...
    05-17-12 01:08 PM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Yeah I know that, and so companies have to find compromises (unless you're apple, in which case the consumer has to find compromises ) and my point with BIS is...would you leave BB if they scrapped it? No other company (to my knowledge) offers anything like it, and then you'd just have to choose a phone based upon which helps you get things done quickly, which I'm guessing would still be BB. So RIM keeps you as a customer, and reins in a few "general" consumers. Appealing individually to too many consumers is expensive (hence the reduction in lines of phones with BB10).

    Incidentally, roaming charges from NI to ROI are harsh, but I suppose that's what it's like on mainland Europe as well...hence the EU stepping in to reduce them I suppose...
    I'll cross that bridge when it comes to it I don't think that's a worry for at least the next 2-3 years, too many BBOS devices out there.
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 05-17-12 at 01:47 PM.
    05-17-12 01:45 PM
  6. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I feel it's a little simplistic to say if you don't like BIS go elsewhere...there's lots of other things about blackberry to like, and it's not as if everyone hasn't got a list of things they'd like to change with BB10...not sure why BIS is being given this sacred status.
    I agree

    There are LOTS of things besides BIS/BES to like about BlackBerry, but BIS/BES ARE BlackBerry the same.
    RIM shouldn't Ruin what made them trying to carve out a piece of the consumer market that doesn't want to be loyal to anyone
    05-17-12 02:56 PM
  7. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Complete rubbish to say BIS is the blackberry experience, so many things it is applauded for you don't experience they just happen - like security, and data compression. Only thing you properly experience is push, and I'm sure the minds at RIM can come up with an alternative that doesn't require full on BIS.

    Whilst security is great, most consumers don't need it to the extent it occurs at the moment - certainly not all data needs to go through RIM's servers, web browsing could be spared this for the gain in speed we would get. Messaging, particularly BBM would still have to go through RIM's servers to some extent, giving security over them, but this wouldn't require all out BIS. Most of the consumer security concerns on other platforms are more to do with app permissions over access to data, which BIS doesn't help with. BIS doesn't provide anywhere near the same security as BES also.

    Finally, compression - isn't a huge thing for me, and I've read elsewhere on the forums it doesn't work for pictures/videos etc. so you only save on the text and the like of web pages which means it isn't that significant. Admittedly I don't know much about this myself but I'm personally not swayed by it.

    Also, from RIM's perspective: if it scraps BIS it's not going to drive people who like it away - they have no where else to get such a solution - whilst it might bring back consumers. BIS as a concept isn't very consumer friendly, and certainly if it stays there should be no consumer facing mention of it in the OS.

    From RIM's perspective if they Scrap BIS/BES they Throw away 4 Billion dollars annually of high margin revenue on a gamble they can increase business
    NOT a good thing,
    BIS just doesn't compress video/Audio, pictures it compresses, web pages, emails, basically things not encoded.
    Because Compression doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it doesn't matter to other people, as the simplistic answer before if you don't like BlackBerry don't use them, and BlackBerry IS a device+Service like Android comes with Googles junk, and iPhone comes with iTunes junk, BlackBerry comes with a NOC.
    Alex_Hong and undone like this.
    05-17-12 03:00 PM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Yeah I know that, and so companies have to find compromises (unless you're apple, in which case the consumer has to find compromises ) and my point with BIS is...would you leave BB if they scrapped it? No other company (to my knowledge) offers anything like it, and then you'd just have to choose a phone based upon which helps you get things done quickly, which I'm guessing would still be BB. So RIM keeps you as a customer, and reins in a few "general" consumers. Appealing individually to too many consumers is expensive (hence the reduction in lines of phones with BB10).

    Incidentally, roaming charges from NI to ROI are harsh, but I suppose that's what it's like on mainland Europe as well...hence the EU stepping in to reduce them I suppose...
    I would leave my personal phone being a blackberry if they lost BIS and compression, it would not be worth the extra $1000 or so a year in service costs to keep the second phone to keep intouch with friends and family while traveling if I didn't have BIS.

    YES BIS is very unique to BlackBerry, it is a BlackBerry service, and it is a integrated into the OS product, they are rewriting a new OS yes, but why abandon all of their knowledge and history in the stuff they ACTUALLY ARE GOOD AT, BES is still the most feature packed MDM solution, it just lacks multi device support, which Mobile fusion address.


    RIM's radio technology, their how they process data, how devices policies are enforced are ALL based on BIS/BES infrastructure, to remove it would be to change the essence of BlackBerry

    I do want to See RIM offer MORE services tied to BIS, BIS was the first Mobile cloud service yet never marketed or defined as such, they need webmail, and cloud storage added to BIS to make it more consumer appealing
    Alex_Hong likes this.
    05-17-12 03:06 PM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I do want to See RIM offer MORE services tied to BIS, BIS was the first Mobile cloud service yet never marketed or defined as such, they need webmail, and cloud storage added to BIS to make it more consumer appealing
    Yeas, but if they give us more services at no extra cost will they be free?
    05-17-12 03:31 PM
  10. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Yeas, but if they give us more services at no extra cost will they be free?
    nope


    .....
    05-17-12 03:46 PM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I would leave my personal phone being a blackberry if they lost BIS and compression, it would not be worth the extra $1000 or so a year in service costs to keep the second phone to keep intouch with friends and family while traveling if I didn't have BIS.

    YES BIS is very unique to BlackBerry, it is a BlackBerry service, and it is a integrated into the OS product, they are rewriting a new OS yes, but why abandon all of their knowledge and history in the stuff they ACTUALLY ARE GOOD AT, BES is still the most feature packed MDM solution, it just lacks multi device support, which Mobile fusion address.


    RIM's radio technology, their how they process data, how devices policies are enforced are ALL based on BIS/BES infrastructure, to remove it would be to change the essence of BlackBerry

    I do want to See RIM offer MORE services tied to BIS, BIS was the first Mobile cloud service yet never marketed or defined as such, they need webmail, and cloud storage added to BIS to make it more consumer appealing
    I think I would go back to a dumb but rugged phone and just carry a connected tablet if that would happen.
    05-17-12 04:06 PM
  12. Snuupy's Avatar
    You did, if BBM is run by the BIS servers and you want BBM without BIS.............
    Nope, I said connection via Wi-Fi. Still passes through servers, definitely needs a way to communicate with other BB devices.

    What you said doesn't even make sense!
    05-17-12 05:57 PM
  13. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    Nope, I said connection via Wi-Fi. Still passes through servers, definitely needs a way to communicate with other BB devices.

    What you said doesn't even make sense!
    Wi-Fi isn't everywhere, so it would not be always available if you got it by Wi-Fi.

    Now you're not making sense.
    05-17-12 06:03 PM
  14. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    I wouldn't mind if the next gen devices required a BIS connection, as long as they're able to do away with some of the limitations the current version has (ie. truncated emails) and are able to avoid major (more than a few hours) service outages.
    05-17-12 08:34 PM
  15. gtpointer's Avatar
    I would leave my personal phone being a blackberry if they lost BIS and compression, it would not be worth the extra $1000 or so a year in service costs to keep the second phone to keep intouch with friends and family while traveling if I didn't have BIS.

    YES BIS is very unique to BlackBerry, it is a BlackBerry service, and it is a integrated into the OS product, they are rewriting a new OS yes, but why abandon all of their knowledge and history in the stuff they ACTUALLY ARE GOOD AT, BES is still the most feature packed MDM solution, it just lacks multi device support, which Mobile fusion address.


    RIM's radio technology, their how they process data, how devices policies are enforced are ALL based on BIS/BES infrastructure, to remove it would be to change the essence of BlackBerry

    I do want to See RIM offer MORE services tied to BIS, BIS was the first Mobile cloud service yet never marketed or defined as such, they need webmail, and cloud storage added to BIS to make it more consumer appealing
    You keep amalgamating BES with BIS...they're completely different in terms of the service they provide (from what I've read at least, apparently if RIM execs actually had to use BIS rather than BES they'd be embarrassed). BES's advantages are not a justification for BIS's existence. BIS is a by-product of BES that compromises consumer features whilst not fully achieving enterprise features.

    Further, whilst some aspects of BIS should/could be retained, it is clear it needs an overhaul that will hopefully/probably mean it is no longer called BIS nor be anything similar to its current form. BIS is archaic, as has just been pointed out, and somehow I'd forgotten, not only does it compress web data meaning slower load times (I know the advantages for some), it compresses email meaning we get horrible truncated versions.
    Maybe an equivalent overhaul similar to BES/Mobile Fusion shift(which I don't think is simply BES transposed; it may be BES working through MF on legacy devices, but I don't think it's BES on BB10/PB) will be happen for BIS, which will take some of the good features whilst scrapping all the anachronisms.

    Yes BIS was the first mobile cloud solution, but the new features you want can't be added in its current state. I'd equate the change to be similar to Apple's shift from mobile me to icloud; the foundations (in concept) may have been much the same but the building on top was demolished and completely rebuilt.Whilst you say you want new features do you still want the current model retained but added to? Or overhauled as I say? Obviously I don't want to remove all interaction with RIM's servers...

    People keep saying "you don't want data compression", as if I'm some sort of loner. Very few consumers WANT data compression. It may help them, but it won't help sell phones. At the end of the day, RIM is still a business and whilst it may be carving out a niche in the market with "people who get things done", but people within that still want their whole email displayed, which is going to lead to a sacrifice of data compression in this area.

    Finally, again it really isn't helpful to tell me to go to another platform. I'm not hating on BB. I'm an ardent supporter. I'm just trying to engage in a discussion about a feature I'm not overly attached to. Telling me to go away isn't very helpful and sounds quite churlish...

    Edit: I've gone over this and correct a few bits where it didn't make sense. Apologies if it still doesn't in parts, writing this whilst tired and slightly drunk perhaps wasn't the best idea
    Last edited by gtpointer; 05-17-12 at 09:09 PM.
    05-17-12 09:02 PM
  16. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    You keep amalgamating BES with BIS...they're completely different in terms of the service they provide (from what I've read at least, apparently if RIM execs actually had to use BIS rather than BES they'd be embarrassed). BES's advantages are not a justification for BIS's existence. BIS is a by-product of BES that compromises consumer features whilst not fully achieving enterprise features.
    I combine BIS/BES together for this conversation because form a BlackBerry device standpoint they are one and the same, The OS level is made with BIS/BES in mind as the same thing, the differences in the power each server has is irrelevant to the Device OS, and in this conversation it is about making the BlackBerry for consumers without BIS, which would mean killing the connectors required for BES to work in the traditional sense.

    BlackBerry's biggest supporters are governments, Blackberry's are the first devices approved by banks and credit card company's for NFC use, this is BECAUSE of BIS/BES levels of security and OS level building.

    THAT is why I combine them, you can't talk about 1 without the other when discussing relevance to the BlackBerry Platform, if you do, you're ill-informed about how they work.

    Further, whilst some aspects of BIS should/could be retained, it is clear it needs an overhaul that will hopefully/probably mean it is no longer called BIS nor be anything similar to its current form. BIS is archaic, as has just been pointed out, and somehow I'd forgotten, not only does it compress web data meaning slower load times (I know the advantages for some), it compresses email meaning we get horrible truncated versions.
    BIS isn't Archaic, it lacks finesse, The "slower load times" you experience on a BlackBerry vs an iPhone are Milliseconds on most web pages, if load time is all one cares about, then again the BlackBerry Platform isn't for them, a company can not be successful trying to please everyone, RIM's target market is the market that cares about data, that is the Enterprise market, and the market that pays attention to their phone bills, in the past it was for speed because of limited bandwidth, today it is about volume due to more and more company's dropping unlimited data plans, such as Verizon has just announced.
    I do hope RIM adds functionality to BIS, I love Truncation on my emails when I am away, and actually hate that they increased the email size to 11MB, as that has increased my monthly bill when I travel, I with they'd give web controls to turn trunction off/on and choose the threshold, because as an Enterprise user Truncation has a lot of value as well as a traveling consumer, though the traveling consumer is a minority market

    Maybe an equivalent overhaul similar to BES/Mobile Fusion shift(which I don't think is simply BES transposed; it may be BES working through MF on legacy devices, but I don't think it's BES on BB10/PB) will be happen for BIS, which will take some of the good features whilst scrapping all the anachronisms.
    Go to about 2:45 in this video and he talks about how mobile fusion tunnels the activeSync through BES


    Yes BIS was the first mobile cloud solution, but the new features you want can't be added in its current state. I'd equate the change to be similar to Apple's shift from mobile me to icloud; the foundations (in concept) may have been much the same but the building on top was demolished and completely rebuilt.Whilst you say you want new features do you still want the current model retained but added to? Or overhauled as I say? Obviously I don't want to remove all interaction with RIM's servers...
    I would REALLY love to hear how you came to the conclusion that features I would want from the cloud such as data storage and webmail can't be added to the current state of BIS
    do you have some technical knowledge that I don't?


    People keep saying "you don't want data compression", as if I'm some sort of loner. Very few consumers WANT data compression. It may help them, but it won't help sell phones. At the end of the day, RIM is still a business and whilst it may be carving out a niche in the market with "people who get things done", but people within that still want their whole email displayed, which is going to lead to a sacrifice of data compression in this area.
    90% of people maybe even more don't even know they have data compression, all they know is they get by in a month on sub 200MB of data,
    The BULK of people's emails are not ever hitting the OS7 /BIS 5 truncation limit which has increased to 11MB per emails, I can say with the some 900 emails in my inbox on my device less than 100 of them have been truncated, and MANY have excel and pdf attachments. and I'm an extreme user compared to average joe.
    And Data compression CAN help sell phones if sales people know about it, and if people actually know what they want, with unlimited data solutions vanishing people will be paying more attention to their data usage, also anyone who travels regularly should know about data compression, RIM's fault is they are stupid, they have NO idea how to tell people what they offer, nor train staff, so consumers don't know they can get away with a 500MB plan for $20/month rather than spending $30 for a 1GB Plan,

    Now I do agree Truncation does need user controllable options,
    BUT I disagree about removal of BIS to get it.


    Finally, again it really isn't helpful to tell me to go to another platform. I'm not hating on BB. I'm an ardent supporter. I'm just trying to engage in a discussion about a feature I'm not overly attached to. Telling me to go away isn't very helpful and sounds quite churlish...
    I don't really want to tell you to go away, but the case is BlackBerry from the OS and RIM from a technology standpoint is built from the NOC out, that is how the company is built, they would be abandoning all that was great about their technology if they were to abandon the NOC. the NOC is not without faults, there is a lot of room for improvement, but if the NOC is something you despise, then BlackBerry really isn't your platform, and there isn't anything wrong with that, people must make compromises as there is no perfect ecosystem & device
    Last edited by deRusett; 05-17-12 at 11:54 PM. Reason: updated post for full answers
    Alex_Hong likes this.
    05-17-12 09:29 PM
  17. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I wouldn't mind if the next gen devices required a BIS connection, as long as they're able to do away with some of the limitations the current version has (ie. truncated emails) and are able to avoid major (more than a few hours) service outages.
    The BIS's biggest weakness and biggest security advantage are one and the same, it is the more easily interrupted service, if a major node in the NOC goes down, the service dies,
    think of it like this RIM uses a hard coded DNS everything goes to that DNS, if that DNS is blocked nothing gets in or out of that device.

    other devices use a Dynamic DNS, if one DNS is blocked they just jump to the next, so they don't suffer the same outages, but the risk lies in that a DNS could be a bad DNS and could be tracking/snooping your transmissions which poses a security risk

    ** this is a very simplified example
    05-17-12 11:59 PM
  18. Jonathank's Avatar
    I have seen BBM run without BIS many times.... I c it when people come from jamaica on the Digicel network and BBM is running here in fl when Digicel is not available. he had the phone on Wifi and bbm was working when I took the Sim out and out it back it stopped working... Im guessing he still had the service books when he got here, the moment he took the sim out he lost the service books and it stopped working my best guess, but I have seen it work several times and its a grey area
    05-18-12 12:03 AM
  19. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I have seen BBM run without BIS many times.... I c it when people come from jamaica on the Digicel network and BBM is running here in fl when Digicel is not available. he had the phone on Wifi and bbm was working when I took the Sim out and out it back it stopped working... Im guessing he still had the service books when he got here, the moment he took the sim out he lost the service books and it stopped working my best guess, but I have seen it work several times and its a grey area

    The way that works is the PIN is still registered on a BIS network somewhere,
    your PIN is registered on a carrier NOC. the carrier.blackberry.net registered location holds your PIN you don't need to actually connect to the carrier via cellular, the device is reaching out to the NOC, the NOC is checking against the PIN registration and making the connection.

    if the user had shut down their service before coming to the US, and their carrier wiped their BIS account they wouldn't be able to use BBM.


    The issue that arises with people saying they want BBM on wifi only is that currently it is the CARRIER who supports the BBM infrastructure with their BIS server
    for RIM to have a wifi only BBM device they'd need to have a BIS server for consumers to have PIN's registered against, so a BlackBerry.BlackBerry.net BIS so to speak, this would be a "political" for lack of better word nightmare for RIM with carrier support and fee collection
    05-18-12 12:26 AM
  20. Snuupy's Avatar
    Wi-Fi isn't everywhere, so it would not be always available if you got it by Wi-Fi.

    Now you're not making sense.
    It doesn't need to be. It'll be like textplus on iDevices with Wi-Fi only, or iMessage on iDevices with Wi-Fi connections. That works fine.
    05-18-12 01:51 AM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    It doesn't need to be. It'll be like textplus on iDevices with Wi-Fi only, or iMessage on iDevices with Wi-Fi connections. That works fine.
    Most idevices are wifi devices, I don't know anybody that keeps an iphone just to use on wifi, because above all they're mobile phones. And if they did it would be an awful waste. All blackberry devices minus the PlayBook are mobile phone above all.

    Providing a service for old deactivated blackberry phones on wifi only doesn't make any business sense at all.
    05-18-12 02:30 AM
  22. gtpointer's Avatar
    DeRusset:

    I'm going to drop a lot of points because the discussion is becoming lengthier and lengthier and it's getting out of control

    Appealing to government and enterprise isn't exactly panning out well is it. For some reason people seem to have interpreted "people who want to get things done quickly" (henceforth "quick people") as corporate. It's a far broader category than that, and yes, it includes people who want to get their web-browsing done quickly, so a few extra "milliseconds" (it is more than that in reality) will be important.

    As you say, truncation and compression were original due to bandwith constraints, and now the usefulness of them with expensive data is becoming apparent. However, it will never be a reason why an average consumer, not even an average "quick person" will make it their deciding factor for buying a phone. The group of people whose primary concern in choosing a phone is data consumption is a very small subgroup of quick people. In many ways that's probably a good thing, as concern over data consumption would have left us all on dial-up and not be able to watch HD movies instantly over the web. Most BB users have a small data bill not through data compression but through the fact the phone doesn't lend itself to data consumption.

    I don't want to get rid of the NOC, I just want BIS to be overhauled. It just isn't consumer friendly enough at the moment, and RIM needs to be far more consumer friendly with BB10 if it wants to re-establish itself (as an example of this, as you suggest there could be an option for email truncation, but the default setting should be full emails, and the option to change it should be buried somewhere no average consumer should find it).
    Last edited by gtpointer; 05-18-12 at 09:37 AM.
    05-18-12 09:35 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Why are you so eager to compromise your BB experience so a BB can appeal more to the general consumer just so RIM can sell more phones? Most people already don't have a clue about what a BB can do already. I've lost count of how many people I told about bedside mode. Be careful what you wish for as it might come true.

    I predict people will be crying for lost features when the change to BB10.
    05-18-12 10:01 AM
  24. Snuupy's Avatar
    Why are you so eager to compromise your BB experience so a BB can appeal more to the general consumer just so RIM can sell more phones? Most people already don't have a clue about what a BB can do already. I've lost count of how many people I told about bedside mode. Be careful what you wish for as it might come true.

    I predict people will be crying for lost features when the change to BB10.
    Seriously, people don't know about bedside mode? Pft.

    It's not compromising your BB experience to enable BBM over Wi-Fi, without a BIS/BES plan. In fact, I know many iPhone users who don't have a data plan, but they have a basic voice/texting plan.
    05-18-12 11:29 AM
  25. reeneebob's Avatar
    Seriously, people don't know about bedside mode? Pft.

    It's not compromising your BB experience to enable BBM over Wi-Fi, without a BIS/BES plan. In fact, I know many iPhone users who don't have a data plan, but they have a basic voice/texting plan.
    I also don't consider BBM a huge part of the 'experience'. To be honest, even with my Pearl/Curve/Storm days (when my BBM list was about 25 people) I can count on one hand how many times I used it over that 2 years. I've used BBM more in the last 2 months, but even then not often. I still prefer text message and get more texts from my BB using friends than BBM.


    I got blisters on me fingers! from using Tapatalk.
    05-18-12 11:35 AM
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