05-20-12 04:57 AM
174 12345 ...
tools
  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And...scene.

    If it was free one could use it without subscribing to BIS. If it was free you could take a deactivated BB, turn on wifi while sitting at Starbucks and use BBM.

    You can't do that.

    Period.
    Yes but you do realise same thing happens with yahoo messenger, google talk, windows live messenger. If you don't have BIS you can't use those on WIFI either. Does that mean they're not free? Do you get me now?
    05-15-12 08:31 AM
  2. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Yes but you do realise same thing happens with yahoo messenger, google talk, windows live messenger. If you don't have BIS you can't use those on WIFI either. Does that mean they're not free? Do you get me now?
    you can't use them on BlackBerry because RIM restricts them, it doesn't mean they are not free,

    mind you though I could use MSN and Yahoo wifi only NO BIS on BBOS6? I haven't used them in over a year but I thought I could
    05-15-12 08:41 AM
  3. mphillips828's Avatar
    Wow I like the discussion I got flowing here lol...

    I will jump in here since I started this thread. I can see where everyone is coming from and in a way I can see how everyone is right (different thinking and mindsets)...In Canada you can purchase BES, BIS and a social plan which includes no internet browsing but allows unlimited FaceBook, Twitter, BBM, etc...

    As people will see it as you are paying for these services and it sure does look that way...the services are OFFERED for free on ur device! you do not need to purchase them separately! the data plan is what you are paying for and BB is unique because they offer their own network to users. In that way they can control what services work over BIS or WIFI (recently the App World was updated to work over WIFI only)

    So plain and simple, the services are offered for free...I am not paying an additional 5$ to use BBM on top of any data plan I have...In order to use data on ur BB you absolutely must get BIS or BES and with that data you have the option to use BBM...

    I see why people think and are saying its not free though, because it only works under the data plan...but you really need to understand that it is a free service offered by RIM, requires a data plan, but the service is free...similar to universities which offer transit and gym...you pay your tuition and you get your school card, the school card allows you free transit and gym access anytime during the school year awesome right! its free!! but really...look into how they break down your tuition and you see that the transit actually cost you 150$ and gym was 100$ for the year...its included with the tuition but if you were asked you would say i have free transit! or i have free gym use! you wouldnt tell someone "oh ya im paying 10$ a month for the bus and 5$ for the gym" its baked in to everything and looked at as free...

    same idea works for RIM and BIS and BBM! you purchase your phone and get a data plan...the data is what you pay for not the BBM service, even though RIM may have to pay or carriers pay RIM, we do not pay separately (in few cases they apparently pay 1$ for BBM monthly which i dont have here)...

    I would like to ask this...if here in Canada we offer the social package where you get BBM, Twitter and FaceBook and no internet browsing or anything included in ur plan...you pay 10$ a month for that...does that mean that FaceBook and Twitter are not free services? if BBM isnt free then i guess facebook and twitter arent (even tho we know they are, just like BBM)

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    05-15-12 09:05 AM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    you can't use them on BlackBerry because RIM restricts them, it doesn't mean they are not free,

    mind you though I could use MSN and Yahoo wifi only NO BIS on BBOS6? I haven't used them in over a year but I thought I could
    Normaly once you stop paying for BIS you loose all access to BBM, other instant messagers and I'm pretty sure facebook and twitter.
    However, sometimes carriers/rim make mistakes and allow some services to keep working, for example I have a payg sim from orange uk that's been working for over a year without paying. Everything works except email, I'm locked out of email setup and I know pantless also has a similar instance.

    So you see why the argument that bbm is paid for because you're paying for BIS doesn't stand because the same happens with all instant messagers, socila networks, blackberry maps, blackberry traffic, all these services have been added over the years to the bis package at no extra cost, same as bbm a long time ago.

    Do you see my point?
    05-15-12 09:11 AM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Wow I like the discussion I got flowing here lol...

    I will jump in here since I started this thread. I can see where everyone is coming from and in a way I can see how everyone is right (different thinking and mindsets)...In Canada you can purchase BES, BIS and a social plan which includes no internet browsing but allows unlimited FaceBook, Twitter, BBM, etc...

    As people will see it as you are paying for these services and it sure does look that way...the services are OFFERED for free on ur device! you do not need to purchase them separately! the data plan is what you are paying for and BB is unique because they offer their own network to users. In that way they can control what services work over BIS or WIFI (recently the App World was updated to work over WIFI only)

    So plain and simple, the services are offered for free...I am not paying an additional 5$ to use BBM on top of any data plan I have...In order to use data on ur BB you absolutely must get BIS or BES and with that data you have the option to use BBM...

    I see why people think and are saying its not free though, because it only works under the data plan...but you really need to understand that it is a free service offered by RIM, requires a data plan, but the service is free...similar to universities which offer transit and gym...you pay your tuition and you get your school card, the school card allows you free transit and gym access anytime during the school year awesome right! its free!! but really...look into how they break down your tuition and you see that the transit actually cost you 150$ and gym was 100$ for the year...its included with the tuition but if you were asked you would say i have free transit! or i have free gym use! you wouldnt tell someone "oh ya im paying 10$ a month for the bus and 5$ for the gym" its baked in to everything and looked at as free...

    same idea works for RIM and BIS and BBM! you purchase your phone and get a data plan...the data is what you pay for not the BBM service, even though RIM may have to pay or carriers pay RIM, we do not pay separately (in few cases they apparently pay 1$ for BBM monthly which i dont have here)...

    I would like to ask this...if here in Canada we offer the social package where you get BBM, Twitter and FaceBook and no internet browsing or anything included in ur plan...you pay 10$ a month for that...does that mean that FaceBook and Twitter are not free services? if BBM isnt free then i guess facebook and twitter arent (even tho we know they are, just like BBM)

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Thank you, it's what I've been trying to say all along, instead I've been ridiculed for it.
    05-15-12 09:16 AM
  6. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    BBM is "free" if you look at it from the perspective that you don't have to pay separately for the app, nor are you charged per message or for an extra plan to use it like SMS.

    But the way I see it, it isn't really free for couple of reasons: 1) I have to have a data plan to use it, and it counts, however compressed the data may be, against my bucket of data; 2) It will not work wifi only on a deactivated BlackBerry.

    A value add on the part of RIM as part of the stock BlackBerry platform? Yes, you could call it that...but definitely not free.
    05-15-12 09:17 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    BBM is "free" if you look at it from the perspective that you don't have to pay separately for the app, nor are you charged per message or for an extra plan to use it like SMS.

    But the way I see it, it isn't really free for couple of reasons: 1) I have to have a data plan to use it, and it counts, however compressed the data may be, against my bucket of data; 2) It will not work wifi only on a deactivated BlackBerry.

    A value add on the part of RIM as part of the stock BlackBerry platform? Yes, you could call it that...but definitely not free.
    No, wrong, you see, you pay for your data plan then you're free to use it any way you want, browser, instant messengers, social networks, maps etc.
    05-15-12 09:23 AM
  8. mphillips828's Avatar
    BBM is "free" if you look at it from the perspective that you don't have to pay separately for the app, nor are you charged per message or for an extra plan to use it like SMS.

    But the way I see it, it isn't really free for couple of reasons: 1) I have to have a data plan to use it, and it counts, however compressed the data may be, against my bucket of data; 2) It will not work wifi only on a deactivated BlackBerry.

    A value add on the part of RIM as part of the stock BlackBerry platform? Yes, you could call it that...but definitely not free.

    "Definitely not free" you need to look from other perspectives and not simply your own...you can not say its "definitely not free" because if you want to get down to the nitty gritty, its free in app world (FREE), as you said you dont pay per message, nor do you need an extra plan...all those things sound similar to free, especially the FREE word they put beside it in app world...

    again i see your point and understand you pay for BIS and data and without data BBM wouldnt work...but without data many other free services wouldnt work either...

    So if they update BBM for BB10 to use over WIFI and data then you will instantly change your view and call BBM free?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    05-15-12 09:27 AM
  9. Snuupy's Avatar
    "Definitely not free" you need to look from other perspectives
    So if they update BBM for BB10 to use over WIFI and data then you will instantly change your view and call BBM free?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Not just BB10, but for other devices as well (Devices on OS5, OS6), then yes. Shouldn't be hard to allow the Wi-Fi interface to interact with RIM's servers.

    Edit: From the thread, what I seem to be reading (and also what I agree with), is that BBM shouldn't be solely dependant on the carrier - but should also be able to be used on its other connections, namely Wi-Fi.

    Of course, you could always switch to other third party clients (whatsapp, pingchat, etc), but that's different from BBM.
    Last edited by Snuupy; 05-15-12 at 09:49 AM.
    05-15-12 09:43 AM
  10. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    So if they update BBM for BB10 to use over WIFI and data then you will instantly change your view and call BBM free?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    The test I would use to define "free" in this case would be whether or not I could use it without relying on paying my carrier anything...essentially not requiring a data plan, BIS/BES enabled or not. Like I said, if it works over wifi only on a BlackBerry without a data plan, then it truly would be free.

    Not saying that would be the most practical in real world use..but that's a discussion for another day.




    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    05-15-12 09:50 AM
  11. Snuupy's Avatar
    The test I would use to define "free" in this case would be whether or not I could use it without relying on paying my carrier anything...essentially not requiring a data plan, BIS/BES enabled or not. Like I said, if it works over wifi only on a BlackBerry without a data plan, then it truly would be free.

    Not saying that would be the most practical in real world use..but that's a discussion for another day.




    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Also, textplus on iDevices without data plans work with texting :P
    +1 to BBM through Wi-Fi. However, RIM gets paid when people pay for BIS/BES plans, so they likely won't support this.
    05-15-12 09:53 AM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Not just BB10, but for other devices as well (Devices on OS5, OS6), then yes. Shouldn't be hard to allow the Wi-Fi interface to interact with RIM's servers.

    Edit: From the thread, what I seem to be reading (and also what I agree with), is that BBM shouldn't be solely dependant on the carrier - but should also be able to be used on its other connections, namely Wi-Fi.

    Of course, you could always switch to other third party clients (whatsapp, pingchat, etc), but that's different from BBM.
    BBM already works on WIFI.
    05-15-12 09:54 AM
  13. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    I think I have the perfect analogy:



    You know when you walk into a shop and you see a bar of chocolate that has a yellow part at the top where it says "Extra 30% FREE"

    That 30% is BBM, it's free but you can't eat it without paying for the bar of chocolate first.

    If one doesn't want it one can choose the normal size chocolate bar without the added value of the 30%(bbm) but one will still pay the same price for it.



    Now if you can't see that, I'm done.
    The analogy represents value. You get more bang for the buck when you get the bonus 30% while paying for a smaller size. But you still have to pay for it first like you said.

    If you walk into a store and it says "Free take one"...that would truly represent free.





    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    05-15-12 09:55 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The test I would use to define "free" in this case would be whether or not I could use it without relying on paying my carrier anything...essentially not requiring a data plan, BIS/BES enabled or not. Like I said, if it works over wifi only on a BlackBerry without a data plan, then it truly would be free.

    Not saying that would be the most practical in real world use..but that's a discussion for another day.




    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Well in that case it's never trully free, you still have to buy the blackberry device you want to use it on and without a carrier contract you'd have to buy it at full price.
    05-15-12 09:57 AM
  15. gtpointer's Avatar
    I do really feel my post earlier was quite pertinent in this discussion. We are circling around different definitions of free here.
    Personally, I feel it is quite odd to ignore the cost of the device in determining whether a bundled service is free and to focus on whether it can be used carrier free. Just because you can use something on wifi doesn't make it "free" - Apple doesn't just allow you to use imessage out of the goodness of its heart, it's because you've bought its product. You can call it a one off subscription fee if you like, but you're still accessing apple's servers even if you're using wifi, and they allow you to do that for one reason - you've paid them. Yes imessage is different from bbm, but the companies have got money out of you one way or another.

    Considering part of the way I'm paying for my phone is through the monthly contract payment, with which I get minutes, texts, data/BIS...I know this may not be the same in all countries, particularly where they up-sell using BIS, but from my perspective, and back on topic, BIS doesn't affect what I pay in any way and the burdens of it out-weigh the benefits.
    05-15-12 10:12 AM
  16. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    BBM already works on WIFI.
    It still requires a BIS enabled plan though whether you are running through your carrier's network or your own wifi at home. It won't go through the RIM servers without one.


    Well in that case it's never trully free, you still have to buy the blackberry device you want to use it on and without a carrier contract you'd have to buy it at full price.
    Belfast, nothing in life is free
    05-15-12 10:19 AM
  17. reeneebob's Avatar
    BBM is "free" if you look at it from the perspective that you don't have to pay separately for the app, nor are you charged per message or for an extra plan to use it like SMS.

    But the way I see it, it isn't really free for couple of reasons: 1) I have to have a data plan to use it, and it counts, however compressed the data may be, against my bucket of data; 2) It will not work wifi only on a deactivated BlackBerry.

    A value add on the part of RIM as part of the stock BlackBerry platform? Yes, you could call it that...but definitely not free.

    And that is where I'm coming from.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk
    05-15-12 10:39 AM
  18. reeneebob's Avatar
    BBM already works on WIFI.

    Not if you don't pay for a BIS plan it doesn't.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk
    05-15-12 10:51 AM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    So let me get this straight, only when RIM will provide BBM to deactivated blackberry mobile phones to be used on wifi only, only then we can call BBM free? Riiiggghhhtttt, that make a lot of sense.
    05-15-12 10:55 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Not if you don't pay for a BIS plan it doesn't.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk
    Oh I know, but the person I was responding to said BBM is carrier network dependant, it's not, as long as you have a data plan it works on wifi only too.
    05-15-12 11:00 AM
  21. OniBerry's Avatar
    Oh I know, but the person I was responding to said BBM is carrier network dependant, it's not, as long as you have a data plan it works on wifi only too.
    Hey! Clown shoes!!!


    Where do you think the Data Plan comes from? Wave your arms around and hope RIM's NOC picks up your device?
    05-15-12 11:06 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Hey! Clown shoes!!!


    Where do you think the Data Plan comes from? Wave your arms around and hope RIM's NOC picks up your device?
    Yeah carrier network is what your phone connects to, carrier dat plan is what you pay for.

    BBM works without a connection to the carrier network, just a connection to wifi. As long as you pay your bill.

    Is that hard to grasp?
    05-15-12 11:10 AM
  23. OniBerry's Avatar
    Yeah carrier network is what your phone connects to, carrier dat plan is what you pay for.

    BBM works without a connection to the carrier network, just a connection to wifi. As long as you pay your bill.

    Is that hard to grasp?
    Thanks!!!! That is what everyone except you is talking about. I am done. Good discussion, even though some people are just stubborn
    05-15-12 11:11 AM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Thanks!!!! That is what everyone except you is talking about. I am done. Good discussion, even though some people are just stubborn
    Obviously you never bother reading what I was responding to in the first place. Go back and read it.
    05-15-12 11:16 AM
  25. pkcable's Avatar
    Belfast & Oniberry take it down like 2 notches!
    05-15-12 11:40 AM
174 12345 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD