04-14-11 12:24 PM
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  1. sam_b77's Avatar
    come down to the USA. they all use iphones and androids. but yes, in Java Indonesia and Caracas, the kids "all" use BB.
    Now that is a discussion stopper...if it happens in US it's the only way to go ... real depth
    andyahs likes this.
    04-12-11 04:01 PM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    There are some very good features with BBs, and the article hits on a few of them.

    BBM, security, e-mail, contacts integration, etc., are top notch. The BB is truly a workhorse phone, and I love it for that.

    With that said, I'm not afraid to criticize RIM for missing the boat on the move from phone+e-mail device to all-in-one small electronic device. Perhaps they weren't quite sure how to balance consumer and corporate products, but they clearly got caught flat footed in terms of hardware, software and functionality.

    I HOPE and wish that RIM can once again get back to being cutting edge. My Bold 9700 has served me well, and I want to continue to support them. They desperately need to make it easier and cheaper for developers and companies to develop apps. And, I'm not talking about Angry Birds. I'm talking about the 200-300 apps that likely make up 90%+ of all downloads on iPhones and Android devices. Mint.com doesn't have a BB app. Charles Schwab has yet to make a BB app. RIM should be pushing all companies such as these to be developing apps for BBs with all the effort and timeliness that those companies do for iPhone and Android.

    As I get closer to the end of my current contract, I continue to research other phones. My has an iPhone 4, and it is fun to play with. Yet, it isn't the workhorse that my BB is. Android phones sound promising, yet I don't like how big and heavy most of the HTC units are. I suppose that my ultimate phone would be a combination of the best of all 3 platforms. I also suppose that whatever frustration I have with RIM results from RIM having had every opportunity to be there, with industry leading phones, and yet they seem to be caught a cycle or two behind. Still, the functionality, organization capabilities, customization ability, and workhorse nature of my BB keeps me where I am.
    Lol, I'm just back from the gym where I noticed a girl waring one of the 4inch+ Android phones in an armband, it looked like she had a TV attached to her arm LOL
    04-12-11 04:19 PM
  3. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Now that is a discussion stopper...if it happens in US it's the only way to go ... real depth
    Of course! Don't you know that net gains separates themselves into "relevant" profits and "irrelevant" profits and the only ones that matter, by definition, are the relevant ones which just happen to come from America? It's a new model that is has gained great popularity in WS. (Which is a bit interesting since America owes so much money to China that any day now Beijing will hold a clearance sale.)

    NONE of those billions at RIM matter. Get used to it, man!
    04-12-11 08:40 PM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    rebooting my BB gives me valuable time at various points in the day to do what I want.
    I'd say your productivity would increase and you would gain valuable time if you didn't find yourself looking at your watch every five minutes, checking the battery meter on your 4.5 Inc or Thunderbolt that swallows juice like an Edsel swallowed petrol and running to the wall plug every two hours, which is about as long as a charge lasts...if you actually use the device.

    I haven't been able to get more than seven hours' worth of battery time from my Atrix. But I'm not concerned about plugging in - I have a Blackberry.
    i7guy likes this.
    04-12-11 08:48 PM
  5. i7guy's Avatar
    come down to the USA. they all use iphones and androids. but yes, in Java Indonesia and Caracas, the kids "all" use BB.
    I guess the good 'ol USA is not part of the "world".
    04-12-11 10:00 PM
  6. BoldtotheMax's Avatar
    Imagine the usual naysayers in one thread.

    Tescor, get a clue bro...I mean really.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-11 03:33 AM
  7. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    BES is a true PUSH service where as Activesync is not (it is a poll and push mechanism)

    Exchange uses MAPI and sends a UDP notify packet to BES to alert it that there is a new message to be delivered. BlackBerry Enterprise Server for Microsoft Exchange utilizes the MAPI notification system, in which a MAPI Advise session is registered for BlackBerry smartphone users. When a new item arrives in a BlackBerry smartphone user’s mailbox or another change occurs, the Microsoft Exchange Server sends a User Datagram Protocol (UDP) notification to the BlackBerry Enterprise Server. Once the notification is received, the BlackBerry Enterprise Server starts to process the change. BES just doesn't only rely on UDP but it will rescan the mailbox every 15-30 minutes looking for changes. In reality, the BES server does not rely solely on UDP for new mail notifications because of network latency, packet loss, network congestion, and multiple hop counts between end points (i.e., the BlackBerry Enterprise Server and the Microsoft Exchange Server) increase the likelihood that UDP packets do not arrive at their destination. .


    That's why in most cases receiving an email is instant on a Blackberry.
    ActiveSync is pushed.

    No one without a Blackberry cares how Exchange communicates with BES. BES has to communicate with exchange that way because it is a middleware solution between the device and the Exchange server - just like an Application Server can be a middleware between an Application and a Data Store (i.e. RDBMS). With ActiveSync, the Exchange server just send the **** out to the phone when it comes in. Simple as that. BES isn't faster by any factorable measurement, if at all. The usefulness of BES is more in the Policies and Security, not really the speed of mail delivery, which ActiveSync pretty much matches without a middleware solution (and all Exchange Data is supported by ActiveSync as well).

    ActiveSync is like using API calls to connect directly to Exchange. BES is like using a Library that abstracts those API calls.

    The fact that BES pushes differently due to the fact that it is basically a middleware solution does not make ActiveSync anything other than a true push eMail/PIM data synchronization solution for Microsoft Exchange.

    Dunno why you felt the need to post that, but you're wrong. You're trying to say Exchange ActiveSync isn't "true push" simply because it doesn't push in the exact same was as BES middleware.

    Also, recieving my emails over ActiveSync from an Exchange server has always been instant. This has been the case using a Hosted Exchange 2007 account, Google Sync, or Hotmail ActiveSync. Anyone who has used both Windows Mobile and Blackberries on Exchange can attest to that.

    Also, if you don't have BES on the Exchange Server blackberries then become one of the worst types of devices to use for email on that server. You're relegated to IMAP or OWA, both of which are terribad for obvious reasons.

    ActiveSync is the standard for SMB and Consumer Email (Gmail/Hotmail). Unless RIM puts an ActiveSync client in their upcoming phones I won't even look at them. The lack of ActiveSync support in what prides itself as a "business workhorse" is embarassing, IMO.
    Last edited by N8ter; 04-13-11 at 03:55 AM.
    04-13-11 03:45 AM
  8. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    That's another half truth right here isn't it Civic?

    The 15 minutes poll can't be changed? For a start if you receive emails often it will be 5 minutes not 15 and this can be completely eliminated if you set your email on a blackberry using the imap setting not pop, after all if imap settings are not available for one email account on blackberry, it will not be available on all other platforms either.


    Pot kettle Civic.
    5 minutes is still long, and yes, BIS/BES shortens the interval after you get a mail (in case you are collaborating over email back and forth), but he's right in saying you cannot change that interval. Pretty sure he meant BIS, though, so I dunno where all this BES talk is coming from. Maybe it's cause all of RIM's customers have BES from work or run a BESx server in their spare bedrooms?
    Last edited by N8ter; 04-13-11 at 03:56 AM.
    04-13-11 03:46 AM
  9. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I dare you find me an email provider that doesn't support IMAP settings in this day and age. The scenario painted by Civic only applies to POP settings not IMAP, IMAP is instant on BIS.
    And as I said, if your email provider doesn't support IMAP you can't have it instant on Android either.

    The difference is imap on android still has to connect to server every 15 minutes to let the server know what IP address your phone is using. Blackberry bis or bes knows where the device is at all times because it's always connected to the NOC.

    The scenario Civic painted is nonexistent and it's because the user doesn't realize they can connect via imap not pop, user error.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Hotmail has a ton of customers and they don't use IMAP.

    There you go.

    They use POP3, DeltaSync (Desktop PUSH Protocol), and ActiveSync.
    Last edited by N8ter; 04-13-11 at 03:57 AM.
    04-13-11 03:47 AM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Hotmail has a ton of customers and they don't use IMAP.

    There you go.
    Yes but Hotmail is instant on Blackberry, same as yahoo and gmail. Yahoo is not imap either.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-11 03:52 AM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    5 minutes is still long, and yes, BIS/BES shortens the interval after you get a mail (in case you are collaborating over email back and forth), but he's right in saying you cannot change that interval. Pretty sure he meant BIS, though, so I dunno where all this BES talk is coming from. Maybe it's cause all of RIM's customers have BES from work or run a BESx server in their spare bedrooms?
    But this scenario doesn't happen anymore, this was true when you owned a domain and they only had POP settings for you to set the email on your blackberry or computer. Now they all have imap settings as well and if you use those settings email is instant, well 7 seconds in my case, I timed it many times.
    Actually las time I set a blackberry up with my email the email set up applications discovered the imap settings automatically, I didn't have to set it manually.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-11 04:01 AM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    If any of you still have this 15 minutes delay google your email provider for the imap settings, that's what I did around 2 years ago and found out my email provider, 1and1.co.uk had imap settings, I had instant work emails on BIS ever since.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-11 04:08 AM
  13. i7guy's Avatar
    ActiveSync is pushed.

    No one without a Blackberry cares how Exchange communicates with BES. BES has to communicate with exchange that way because it is a middleware solution between the device and the Exchange server - just like an Application Server can be a middleware between an Application and a Data Store (i.e. RDBMS). With ActiveSync, the Exchange server just send the **** out to the phone when it comes in. Simple as that. BES isn't faster by any factorable measurement, if at all. The usefulness of BES is more in the Policies and Security, not really the speed of mail delivery, which ActiveSync pretty much matches without a middleware solution (and all Exchange Data is supported by ActiveSync as well).

    ActiveSync is like using API calls to connect directly to Exchange. BES is like using a Library that abstracts those API calls.

    The fact that BES pushes differently due to the fact that it is basically a middleware solution does not make ActiveSync anything other than a true push eMail/PIM data synchronization solution for Microsoft Exchange.

    Dunno why you felt the need to post that, but you're wrong. You're trying to say Exchange ActiveSync isn't "true push" simply because it doesn't push in the exact same was as BES middleware.

    Also, recieving my emails over ActiveSync from an Exchange server has always been instant. This has been the case using a Hosted Exchange 2007 account, Google Sync, or Hotmail ActiveSync. Anyone who has used both Windows Mobile and Blackberries on Exchange can attest to that.

    Also, if you don't have BES on the Exchange Server blackberries then become one of the worst types of devices to use for email on that server. You're relegated to IMAP or OWA, both of which are terribad for obvious reasons.

    ActiveSync is the standard for SMB and Consumer Email (Gmail/Hotmail). Unless RIM puts an ActiveSync client in their upcoming phones I won't even look at them. The lack of ActiveSync support in what prides itself as a "business workhorse" is embarassing, IMO.
    Gmail and hotmail are not fortune 500 standard email platforms, which is the stronghold of Bes. I could care less about push on gmail, a delay of minutes is fine.



    Where gmail push is important use iphone. There is no need for it on a blackberry. Or autoforward your emails to exchange.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-11 05:54 AM
  14. i7guy's Avatar
    5 minutes is still long, and yes, BIS/BES shortens the interval after you get a mail (in case you are collaborating over email back and forth), but he's right in saying you cannot change that interval. Pretty sure he meant BIS, though, so I dunno where all this BES talk is coming from. Maybe it's cause all of RIM's customers have BES from work or run a BESx server in their spare bedrooms?
    5 minutes for gmail or hotmail or aol isn't an issue. Bes is instant and let's me manage my emails far better than an activesync client as the emails are on the HH and I can keep or delete them independently of my desktop.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-11 06:02 AM
  15. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Once again, a falsehood is presented. My T-bolt battery lasts 2 days with me texting like a fiend and cruising the internet. Its scary pe0ple keep using the battery lie to try and present a idiotic point. Get a clue and stop the lies.
    That goes against the consensus of user feedback...poor battery life is common knowledge...a tour of Android forums will support just that...

    I sense an exaggeration ...your posts tend to be defensive and exaggerated.....why so much drama?

    You tend have a history(in threads you have a posting presence) of escalating exaggerations to the point of a grandiose nature, that becomes a distorted defensive measure that becomes very evident to the viewer.

    My point...you're not fooling anyone....this isn't, "Tell-a-Tale Town"
    04-13-11 09:02 AM
  16. i7guy's Avatar
    That goes against the consensus of user feedback...poor battery life is common knowledge...a tour of Android forums will support just that...

    I sense an exaggeration ...your posts tend to be defensive and exaggerated.....why so much drama?

    You tend have a history(in threads you have a posting presence) of escalating exaggerations to the point of a grandiose nature, that becomes a distorted defensive measure that becomes very evident to the viewer.

    My point...you're not fooling anyone....this isn't, "Tell-a-Tale Town"
    The posts from this person are 0% fact and 100% hyperbole. Use your ignore button. We've had enough interesting discussions closed.

    This person flat out calls peple liars, no need to feed the trolles.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-11 09:20 AM
  17. John Yester's Avatar
    Once again, a falsehood is presented. My T-bolt battery lasts 2 days with me texting like a fiend and cruising the internet. Its scary pe0ple keep using the battery lie to try and present a idiotic point. Get a clue and stop the lies.
    Texting - How many and how often?

    Cruising the internet - How long?

    2 days of letting the device sit and not be used. Ya that's a accomplishment....


    Countless online respectable sites reviewed the device and they got any where from 3.4 hours to 182 minutes.......

    mixture of browsing, messaging, a few brief calls and a little camera use
    04-13-11 09:22 AM
  18. John Yester's Avatar
    As in "Twice as much" you charge twice a day..


    How many times do you plug it in?
    04-13-11 09:32 AM
  19. John Yester's Avatar
    and was on the internet all day, it wouldnt last.

    Correct it could not be all day. As it would only last about 3.5 hours... That's 20.5 hours left......
    04-13-11 09:40 AM
  20. John Yester's Avatar
    I unplug at 6am and typically plug it back in at 6pm when I get home...if I forget, I run out of juice around noon the next day and need a recharge. My 9650 lasts a lot longer with "normal" use
    So with that I am assuming you have the extended battery correct? Which would give you 12 hrs.
    04-13-11 09:43 AM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I send 2200+ texts a month and cruise the internet maybe 20-30 min a day...tops.....not a ton of internet....and Im only into a few apps.....regardless of what anyone thinks, I have to charge my tbolt twice as much as my 9650 but I still get almost 2 days out of it.....it is what it is.....
    That is minimal use, that's very little internet use and that's what kills battery, that and calls. If I would use my 9700 like that I would get 3 days out of it, it's 4pm here and I already racked up 1.5 hours of browser internet use.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-11 09:59 AM
  22. John Yester's Avatar
    See that is the problem.

    Drop a device into consumers hands and they freak when something only last for 3-4 or even 5 hours if they are lucky using default settings from the box.

    Most people. Yes most people have their device setup at the store and do not do anything else with it.

    About a week and a half ago, one of the people in my office was saying that her battery was already red on her Droid X and it was 9:30 am

    I looked at the device and her back light was set to 1 hour.

    Her reason was they set it up that way, figured it should be that way.

    Most Avg users do not want to go in and mess with stuff nor do they care to mess with stuff.

    I have tested the TBolt and with my life style on using a mobile device, I nuked the battery in 1.5 hours.


    Thus the bad battery life as they figure they use the device just like anything else in the world, expecting it to last longer.

    So yes what changes you made to your device maybe acceptable, but new media sites do not write for knowledgeable people....

    They are "Consumer" site. getting the word out to the average Joe who does not care to setup an out of the box device and worry about ROMs and other settings that are complicated, etc.

    Though it may seem basic to you and me. Other people do not see it as basic, they see it as cumbersome and not needed.




    So....



    Comparing on how great your device is to what other people use in the world on a daily basis, does not make the device great in some minds as it does in yours. Providers and manufacures now have to do a better job schooling people on how to get the most out of devices.

    People don't think "Hey I am getting bad battery life, let me google it and see what I can find." They accept it as a terrible battery life and move on to something else with out making tweaks as you mentioned...


    People are being "sold" on all these features now days, and to accomplish those features you have to go through steps 1-8 to accomplish them in a very positive way.
    firmdot likes this.
    04-13-11 10:02 AM
  23. John Yester's Avatar
    Thread cleaned up





    Enough. You have BOTH been instructed on deciding on how you want things to play out.

    Either settle your own differences else where or drop it and ignore each other.

    But don't trash the forums because of personal differences.


    Last warning.


    MOVE ON.
    04-13-11 10:31 AM
  24. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I generally set my display at 50% and my backlight to go off at 1 minute. Brightness is usually at 20 to start. Feeds hourly and weather every 4 hours. Then I adjust as I might need.

    I use the browser about 4 hours a day, and heavy calls and messaging.

    My Torch sees me through the day and if I needed it through the early morning.
    I never use it on WiFi because I only have WiFi at home, so there's no point.

    My Atrix has not seen me through a full day if on the network, but it will last through 22 hours on WiFi on weekends.

    First thing I ever do is play with settings!
    04-13-11 10:44 AM
  25. i7guy's Avatar
    Are you a jedi knight? you "sense" an exaggeration? How do you do that exactly? Thats awesome. I get attacked left and right because people hate to read the HONEST TRUTH about certain subjects. When I defend myself (againts hateful rhetoric about being a kid stalker and things of that nature), the hate really comes out....when a blind sheep refuses to see anything but their own point of view, the hate just seeths from their souls. The bottom line is, I DONT CARE who believes. I post what I read and what my experiences are. I dont care if you dont believe me that I get almost 2 days out of my tbolt.....im sure if i used apps 4 hours a day and was on the internet all day, it wouldnt last. Im not here to convince anyone of anything but when you insult my family or talk about the town I live in, you are dam straight I will say something about it.
    I don't sense exaggeration, but when you hardly use the phone and claim you get two days out of it. That is not really exaggeration, it's irreality.
    04-13-11 11:00 AM
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