[davidnc]

(snip)...
Then ask yourself - when you first started that job did you know everything? Did you ever make a mistake? (if you say no, then you're lieing)....(snip)Put that in perspective and then call your entire company a joke, because you are human and you can be wrong every now and then.

... everyone makes mistakes , agreed for instance you did when you misspelled lying

[Kepeli]

RIM is a manufacturer of Hardware and Software for Blackberry Devices. Verizon is a network wireless service provider. They both have formed a mutually beneficial partnership with the hopes of making a profit. I think that there would be less confusion if this were explained to the majority of consumers while they were getting their devices, in addition to clear cut direction to which avenue to pursue should a trouble shooting situation arise. Proper phone numbers and contact information should be given and explained. This protocol should also be practiced when a Verizon tech is stumped on a problem. Either the rep researches the problem and follows up, or passes it on to someone who will solve it. There is always a possibility to initiate a conference call with RIM, and the customer in question, should it be a problem that RIM has to answer.

In the defense of the Verizon rep, yes, they do not know EVERY release of an OS that RIM puts out if the company they work for (in this case, Verizon) does not officially release. A perfect example of this would be the release of 4.5.0.175. This was released OTA or through the DM from RIM, but not officially through Verizon. So, all problems and bugs from that OS should have been redirected to RIM. Verizon had no control of that OSs release.

As far as the Hardware goes, it is covered by a manufactures warranty, and Verizon will get reimbursed for them, so that should not be an issue. This is a problem that also falls under RIMs umbrella. Each company weighs their P/L each year and if it warrants it, they make proper changes and adjustments. If RIM sees an opportunity in quality builds, they should make an adjustment in that area. And if Verizon sees an opportunity to find a quality device manufacturer elsewhere, they should make that a priority.

What does not fall under Verizon's and RIM's responsibility are user error, and user mistreatment. The sad part of it is that this area is grey, hard to prove and most people will not be honest about this. Not many people like to admit they are wrong, or it might be just plain selfishness, and then there are those who just want something for free. Most of the majority fall into the ones who actually tell the truth and follow the rules, but the irresponsible and selfish minority are the ones who make it hard for the rest of us.

I think if people start to:
1. Be honest
2. Think before they speak
3. Educate themselves through research and asking questions
4. Put emotions aside
5. Respect each other
6. Be accountable for themselves (separates adults from children)
7. and Practice courtesy

Then maybe we could solve more problems and get better educated. Forums like these were formulated to help educate the masses as well as provide an arena to find answers without having to deal with a customer service rep for an hour. Usually, the answers I find in here are much more efficient than those I can find in any manual or hear from any customer rep. There is also the inevitable X Factor that always arises due to the swift evolution of technology. I admit, I see a lot of intelligent and wise people here. But, like any other arena, if improper actions are put in an inappropriate area, then it becomes nothing more than simple attacks. That's what the Rants forums are for.

[akiva7777]

well stated kepeli.

[tsguy52]

... everyone makes mistakes , agreed for instance you did when you misspelled lying

Exactly my point!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[i_hiker]

A perfect example of this would be the release of 4.5.0.175. This was released OTA or through the DM from RIM, but not officially through Verizon. So, all problems and bugs from that OS should have been redirected to RIM. Verizon had no control of that OSs release.

Thanks for the thoughtful post. I would have to agree on just about all you said. As for the reference to the 4.5.0.175 release for the Curve 8330, I wonder if you or anyone in the know would care to provide some facts on what exactly is going on with this particular OS. First, the OS has the VZW vendor file embedded that allows direct OTA or App Loader of the OS. If this were the Sprint version one would have to delete the Sprint vendor file before downloading the OS. Question: Does VZW allow RIM to use their vendor file anytime they want? Also, this is the first time (that I am aware of) that one could OTA a new OS onto a Curve 8330. Wouldn't VZW need to be in the know on this?

Next, when installed on a VZW phone, OS .175 is known to cause a chirping noise during phone conversations . As best I can tell, this OS works fine on a Sprint 8330 and no chirps. I am going to elaborate a little about the chirps and state that I was running OS .169 since its release and never had a chirp when most VZW subscribers were. I am on an Alltel plan so I assumed that was the difference. Recently, I was pushed a new PRL that restored the reliable phone service to my residence in Florida, but left me with a bad case of the chirps. When .175 came along last week I did the DL and the chirps were less frequent but still present. My questions are: Could the chirping be PRL related? Also, if OS .175 works fine on a Sprint device but not on a VZW device, is this a RIM issue or a VZW issue?

Someone, please take some time and shed some light on this. Thanks.

[Kepeli]

As for the reference to the 4.5.0.175 release for the Curve 8330, I wonder if you or anyone in the know would care to provide some facts on what exactly is going on with this particular OS. First, the OS has the VZW vendor file embedded that allows direct OTA or App Loader of the OS. If this were the Sprint version one would have to delete the Sprint vendor file before downloading the OS.

Question: Does VZW allow RIM to use their vendor file anytime they want? Also, this is the first time (that I am aware of) that one could OTA a new OS onto a Curve 8330.

I checked on the Verizon Wireless Web Page just now and the current download OS for Curve is 4.5.0.138

BlackBerry® Software Updates

http://appstore.vzw.com.edgesuite.ne...n_Wireless.exe

As far as being able to use Vendor.xl of Verizon without their knowledge, it would be interesting to find out what happened. Might have been a miscommunication with RIM? Might have been a corporate oversight to bring down information to Store level? Unauthorized use by RIM? Again, it would be interesting to see what happened for sure.

[Kepeli]

When .175 came along last week I did the DL and the chirps were less frequent but still present. My questions are: Could the chirping be PRL related? Also, if OS .175 works fine on a Sprint device but not on a VZW device, is this a RIM issue or a VZW issue?

Someone, please take some time and shed some light on this. Thanks.

Maybe that's the reason why Verizon kept their official OS release at .138.

[i_hiker]

I checked on the Verizon Wireless Web Page just now and the current download OS for Curve is 4.5.0.138

BlackBerry® Software Updates

http://appstore.vzw.com.edgesuite.ne...n_Wireless.exe

As far as being able to use Vendor.xl of Verizon without their knowledge, it would be interesting to find out what happened. Might have been a miscommunication with RIM? Might have been a corporate oversight to bring down information to Store level? Unauthorized use by RIM? Again, it would be interesting to see what happened for sure.

Thanks for the response. I had already checked this out as well. Several months ago I received a similar "invitation" from RIM to upgrade my OS to a newer version that was not yet "official". That OS was 4.5.0.138.

[akiva7777]

i would update to the .1387, calling tech support, that is something that they will have you do any way

[i_hiker]

Maybe that's the reason why Verizon kept their official OS release at .138.

lol...I appreciate the subtle sarcasm. However, let's assume .175 becomes official like .138. If this indeed happens and the "chirp" is still present, OS works fine on Sprint (and any other carrier)...who's responsibility to fix...RIM, VZW or both?

As a consumer and VZW customer, I feel the carrier is focusing on quantity and not quality. Push the devices out to the public ASAP. As a result, CS and tech support are stuck the middle as the "go to" source for certain problem solutions they should not have to be dealing with if the devices were better built and the customers were better informed.

[IDsweetcheeks]

So thats the update that my computers been yelling at me about!?
hmm... I have .169 and its working fine, no chirps and no issues. I'm happy with this release and plan on staying with it as long as I can.

[Super_Mario]

lol...I appreciate the subtle sarcasm. However, let's assume .175 becomes official like .138. If this indeed happens and the "chirp" is still present, OS works fine on Sprint (and any other carrier)...who's responsibility to fix...RIM, VZW or both?

As a consumer and VZW customer, I feel the carrier is focusing on quantity and not quality. Push the devices out to the public ASAP. As a result, CS and tech support are stuck the middle as the "go to" source for certain problem solutions they should not have to be dealing with if the devices were better built and the customers were better informed.

VZW will not assist in getting or promoting an unauthorized OS release. And from what RIM reps have told me, they will only help you downgrade or upgrade to the carrier approved OS because they will not "tell you" to use another one. So when you want to run an OS not approved by VZW, you would have to know what your doing yourself.

[i_hiker]

VZW will not assist in getting or promoting an unauthorized OS release. And from what RIM reps have told me, they will only help you downgrade or upgrade to the carrier approved OS because they will not "tell you" to use another one. So when you want to run an OS not approved by VZW, you would have to know what your doing yourself.

Maybe they will not "tell you" to use another one but they sure will send you an email telling you they have an update for you to download (and it just so happens to have the VZW vendor file embedded). What's the difference?

[i_hiker]

So thats the update that my computers been yelling at me about!?
hmm... I have .169 and its working fine, no chirps and no issues. I'm happy with this release and plan on staying with it as long as I can.

I was satisfied with .169 until a new PRL (not a hybrid) was pushed to my phone that improved reception at my house.

[mostlydo]

super bug, any service provider tech support is gonna either say its the first they have heard of it or that they are working and the issue should be resolved shortly

[pkcable]

VZW will not assist in getting or promoting an unauthorized OS release. And from what RIM reps have told me, they will only help you downgrade or upgrade to the carrier approved OS because they will not "tell you" to use another one. So when you want to run an OS not approved by VZW, you would have to know what your doing yourself.

This is where CB comes in handy. FTR I have 4.5 on my 8703e.

[Kepeli]

lol...I appreciate the subtle sarcasm. However, let's assume .175 becomes official like .138. If this indeed happens and the "chirp" is still present, OS works fine on Sprint (and any other carrier)...who's responsibility to fix...RIM, VZW or both?

As a consumer and VZW customer, I feel the carrier is focusing on quantity and not quality. Push the devices out to the public ASAP. As a result, CS and tech support are stuck the middle as the "go to" source for certain problem solutions they should not have to be dealing with if the devices were better built and the customers were better informed.

Based on the facts, in regards to the chirp, if the other networks do not experience it, then it must be something on VZW's network. The uncommon factor in all three is the chirp which is only present on VZW's network. The devices are the same, software the same, only the networks differ. VZW might have not released their .175 due to this very fact. They are probably forced to forego this OS update and hopefully, are working on the 5.0 compatibility for their network. VZW is always, ALWAYS the last to release an OS update. Frankly, I'm happy with .175 on Verizon. LoL. Strangely, they are working on their LTE update, which in your last statement, makes sense. It's a catch 22, though. They want to constantly push the envelop as far as being the first to bring network technology to the forefront. Hopefully, once they roll out LTE, then they will slow down and focus on what they missed. Not being in their corporate structure, I cannot say for sure. I do not see their big picture, so I might not understand their rhymes and reasons in the avenues they choose to pursue. I can only speculate. Hopefully, 2010 will be a fruitful year for both RIM and VZW because I am very happy with both of them. I'm a simple, 1 theme, no app kind of a guy, and they both provide what I need, at this point and time. Corporate politics... AAAHHH... LoL.

[IDsweetcheeks]

You can load almost any OS on any blackberry... ALMOST.
I put 5.0 on my curve. I just didnt like how the increased size of the OS file bogged down my performance. Which is why you want to research. I went back to 4.5.0.169 and thats where I'm staying... or at least until I get bored and decide to "fiddle" with my blackberry as my bf likes to call it.

[pkcable]

You can load almost any OS on any blackberry... ALMOST.
I put 5.0 on my curve. I just didnt like how the increased size of the OS file bogged down my performance. Which is why you want to research. I went back to 4.5.0.169 and thats where I'm staying... or at least until I get bored and decide to "fiddle" with my blackberry as my bf likes to call it.

There's a good reason VZW choose NOT to release 4.5 for the 8703.

[IDsweetcheeks]

and why would that be? Space? :P

[pkcable]

and why would that be? Space? :P

More so process memory (or RAM) the 8703 does not have enough of it. 4.5 on the 8703 is like constant hour glass!

[ediggity]

Based on the facts, in regards to the chirp, if the other networks do not experience it, then it must be something on VZW's network. The uncommon factor in all three is the chirp which is only present on VZW's network. The devices are the same, software the same, only the networks differ. VZW might have not released their .175 due to this very fact. They are probably forced to forego this OS update and hopefully, are working on the 5.0 compatibility for their network. VZW is always, ALWAYS the last to release an OS update. Frankly, I'm happy with .175 on Verizon. LoL. Strangely, they are working on their LTE update, which in your last statement, makes sense. It's a catch 22, though. They want to constantly push the envelop as far as being the first to bring network technology to the forefront. Hopefully, once they roll out LTE, then they will slow down and focus on what they missed. Not being in their corporate structure, I cannot say for sure. I do not see their big picture, so I might not understand their rhymes and reasons in the avenues they choose to pursue. I can only speculate. Hopefully, 2010 will be a fruitful year for both RIM and VZW because I am very happy with both of them. I'm a simple, 1 theme, no app kind of a guy, and they both provide what I need, at this point and time. Corporate politics... AAAHHH... LoL.

I understand your point here, but since the Verizon 8830 has it, they could have easily released it. The chirp is not reason the 8330 doesn't have it. It's just something with the network, and it's regional.

[Kepeli]

I understand your point here, but since the Verizon 8830 has it, they could have easily released it. The chirp is not reason the 8330 doesn't have it. It's just something with the network, and it's regional.

AAAHHH.. Makes sense.

[akiva7777]

More so process memory (or RAM) the 8703 does not have enough of it. 4.5 on the 8703 is like constant hour glass!

i have the 8703c, and have 4.5, and have never had a problem.

[pkcable]

i have the 8703c, and have 4.5, and have never had a problem.

I have an 8703e from Verizon, you have an 8700c from ATT, they are 2 different animals. Actually I had an 8700c in the past myself, till my work took it away. Budget cut!