[Laura Knotek]

Why Verizon and AT&T Are Leaving Sprint in the Dust

[Jim from NW Pa]

Cause Sprint beating Verizon in 4 out of 8 cities definitively means they are faster

Sprint 3G Data Service Speeds Top AT&T and Verizon in Download Performance Test | Business Wire

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[R.O.C.]

Sprint 3G Data Service Speeds Top AT&T and Verizon in Download Performance Test | Business Wire

Your source is an almost year old, Gizmodo test... Not so credible...

Considering Sprint doesn't maintain the majority of the network (except in high population dense areas) while verizon is the largest maintainer of the CDMA infastructure in the united states.. You appear to be dead wrong again... Good to know you attempt to bash me by not really knowing anything and apperently don't know how to look something up...


Actually, as twinx2dad has already pretty much stated you get better density with sprint.. meaning in primary sprint coverage areas your signal is usually better then the comparing verizon... This doesn't hold true in rural areas, but sprint doesn't maintain a network in the majority of rural areas...


Because i actually know what i am talking about, or atleast have the ability to research the subject...

You're still not understanding what I'm saying. Like you said, Sprint doesn't maintain much of their network, while Verizon most certainly does.
I'm saying that, a Sprint phone, is going to prefer Sprint towers over Verizon towers. So if you're in an overlapping area where there are more Verizon towers than Sprint towers, you're phone is still going to reach for the Sprint towers first, thus, resulting in poor signal...

Example:
When Verizon and Alltel merged, Alltel customers were allowed to use Verizon devices. Many customers live in areas where Alltel towers give them the best service. But Verizon devices seek out Verizon towers over Alltel towers. So many these Alltel customers who bought Verizon phones suddenly had degraded service in there area. Why? Because their phones were reaching for Verizon towers over Alltel towers. So these customers are pushed Hybrid PRL's that in laymen's terms, give them the same service back they had with Alltel.

This same principle can be applied for Sprint devices in areas where both Sprint and Verizon are present...

Now, its not something that happens all the time... But it simply proves my point that even though Sprint may roam off of all Verizon's' towers, it doesn't necessarily mean they will have the same quality service...


And I don't see the need to get so defensive. I'm not bashing you, just simply proving my points...

[TwinsX2Dad]

Why Verizon and AT&T Are Leaving Sprint in the Dust

Much of that is speculative & some is flat-out wrong. That article makes the statement that the Droid "is the first phone to include Google's Android platform."

I guess they completely forgot about G1, Eris, Hero & Moment. I wonder how much else they got wrong in that article?

Besides, the intent of this thread was clearly a comparison of features/price & not a discussion as to growth potential or financial performance.

[TwinsX2Dad]

Your source is an almost year old, Gizmodo test... Not so credible...

Very true - if the test was run correctly, at low traffic times, positioned correctly within triangulated towers & adjustments made for technology, there would be little or no difference - what difference there might be would be unnoticed & VZW would generally come out on top.

The Gizmodo test was not done correctly & there is evidence that Sprint actually paid for the test & provided the testing parameters.

Regardless, the speed differences are minor & mostly affected by Sprint's lower traffic - because of this, it really isn't in the scope of this discussion as much as other things, where differences are easy to see.

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[TwinsX2Dad]

A lot more crediblity is shown in the attached chart...

[R.O.C.]

Some more input...

Even though Sprint may be working to improve their customer service...

Sprint is still losing hundreds of thousands of post-paid subscribers each quarter. Sprint lost nearly a million post-paid subs in the second quarter, and over seven hundred thousand post-paid subs this past quarter...

And while Verizon's churn rate did rise slightly this past quarter, it still didn't even approach Sprint's (or T-Mobile's) churn rates...

And when credible tests are performed (not Gizmodo), like the ones done by J.D. Power... Verizon still, in most areas, is seen to have far superior customer service than Sprint...

Whether its reputation, or the fact that Sprint's customer service still isn't that great, they're still losing a lot of customers, and they're not all leaving Sprint for the iPhone or BOGO's...

And if Sprint's phone lineup really is competitive (which it very well could be), then they're marketing department clearly needs to find better ways to translate that to their customers...

[LDHunter]

I have used Sprint and twice left them both times due to poor to no service coverage in rural areas.

They also seemed to overbill me due to "errors" on thier part quite often but the billing errors were ALWAYS in their favor.

This resulted in me spending an hour or two every month on the average getting the bill straight.

Their networks worked great in urban areas and their Sprint Stores were very good but I just couldn't stand the lack of service in rural areas and I quite often still loan my phone with lots of bars to Sprint customers when they get out of service area problems.

I call Sprint the Urban Wireless Carrier.

$bob$

[sorlipm]

I work for 1 of the 2 carriers you are talking about Twins, and i find your info very helpful, one carrier is better than the other, only depending where you are standing. I understand how you are helping with the price comps. the rest of these flamers need to go elsewhere.

[ERDude]

Great comparison. I want to point out something you may have overlooked. As a Sprint Premier Member you get new phone pricing after 12 months. To qualify you must be with Sprint for at least 6 months and spend $69.99 and up per month for a minimum of 3 months.

So as far as new phone pricing goes, I would say the advantage goes to Sprint.

[TwinsX2Dad]

Great comparison. I want to point out something you may have overlooked. As a Sprint Premier Member you get new phone pricing after 12 months. To qualify you must be with Sprint for at least 6 months and spend $69.99 and up per month for a minimum of 3 months.

So as far as new phone pricing goes, I would say the advantage goes to Sprint.

To be fair, I wasn't well-versed on that program - but VZW has their similar VIP program, so the benefits would be a wash. Then again, VZW phone prices are generally lower - so I really didn't want to get into all the variables.

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[AndroidBully]

One thing you have to take into account is home market, since Sprint won't roam on Verizon there. Let's use Grand Rapids, MI as an example...does Sprint work? Sure does...as good as Verizon in the metro area? Nope.

Now if you go up north yes you get same signal as Verizon because your roaming on their towers. Same thing goes for other cities I frequent...Chicago, Norfolk/Virginia Beach, and Las Vegas.

Sprint uses PCS bands which don't penetrate buildings as well...Verizons do. But sure in middle of no where Michigan or North Dakota Sprint will match Verizon due to roaming. The home markets is why Sprint continues to lose customers despite offering equal phones and cheaper pricing.

[Butthead007]

Sorry but there is a lady in our office that uses that word a lot. I guess she rubbed off on me.

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Not sure if I would want anything involving "butthurt" rubbing off on me

I had Sprint a long time ago in addition to ATT/Cingular. Its obvious who I have now.

People have their branding preferences. Look at how many people signed up for an unsubsidized iphone at those outrageous rates when the 2g shipped. That was not an ATT love fest per say, but an Apple one. ATT just benefited from the iphone. Sprint has tarnished the brand with bad decisions and customer service. Sure they can turn it around, but time will tell.

Verizon has been getting very aggressive lately with their phone offerings and I am sure you will see some other changes. Remember when the $44.99 data plan was the only one available from Verizon? You can thank competition for the $29.99 plan. Of course I have a vested interest in seeing Verizon successful but Sprint does offer a good price. Value, not so sure because I may be jaded by past experiences. A low price is great, but poor customer service did not make their cell service a great overall value.

I am really interested in seeing how the landscape changes with the 700 mhz spectrum VZW purchased.

Let's face it--there are always going to be people buying BMWs and Mercedes when a comparable model from GM, Toyota, et al will get the job done for less money. It really boils down to branding in many circumstances and the perceived built in value.

Good post though Twins. And lenny, for the love of friggin god, please take CanAm's advice and get that copy of hooked on phonics. Your spelling makes my brain hurt.

[boomerbsg]

I just left sprint a month ago. And since being on vzw, I know while I work where I work, I can never go back.

Sprints reception in the building, and on its property was terrible. I needed the seideo 2600 battery in my curve just to make it through the day.

And if I got a phone call I had to make a break for an exit and get outside, and usually the call would drop.

I was scared to switch to vzw, because of pricing, and reading that internet was slower than sprints.
But after playing with all the carriers and talking to everyone I worked with, I went to vzw anyway. Couldn't be happier. Datas fast, and I can get a signal at work when no other carrier can.

I'm sticking with vzw for a long time

Cheers

[Gawain]

That's a good read Twins. Sprint and Verizon have had reciprocal roaming agreements for years though (to one extent or another). Their prices are attractive, and they aren't afraid to roll out new technology quickly.

So, it continues to beg the question: Why hasn't Sprint had a positive subscriber quarter since 1Q07?

Sprint may be making the "right" choices (Ericsson NOC management) now, their Tier 1 IP and MPLS back-bone is robust, yet their ROE is in double-digit negatives. Their debt burden is crushing, and they can't retain wireless subscribers. They don't even have any incumbent telecom revenue (Embarq) to help contain the bleeding. When their fiscal year ends in December, the number isn't expected to be any better than last year.

So, what is it? Your sterile analysis in terms of wireless carrier vs. wireless carrier was well thought out. Where is Sprint losing the customers? I think it's a combination of handsets, and a pervasive tide of rumor about the quality of their network, spotty coverage, inability to merge Nextel effectively, and reputation of hit-or-miss service. Until they improve their marks in CS, it's going to be a rough road. However, with a market cap of "only" $9B, their a ripe take-over target. If 2009 ends as their third straight year deep in the red, that cap will shrink and we may see some interesting action on this company next year.

[numus]

That's a good read Twins. Sprint and Verizon have had reciprocal roaming agreements for years though (to one extent or another). Their prices are attractive, and they aren't afraid to roll out new technology quickly.

So, it continues to beg the question: Why hasn't Sprint had a positive subscriber quarter since 1Q07?

Sprint may be making the "right" choices (Ericsson NOC management) now, their Tier 1 IP and MPLS back-bone is robust, yet their ROE is in double-digit negatives. Their debt burden is crushing, and they can't retain wireless subscribers. They don't even have any incumbent telecom revenue (Embarq) to help contain the bleeding. When their fiscal year ends in December, the number isn't expected to be any better than last year.

So, what is it? Your sterile analysis in terms of wireless carrier vs. wireless carrier was well thought out. Where is Sprint losing the customers? I think it's a combination of handsets, and a pervasive tide of rumor about the quality of their network, spotty coverage, inability to merge Nextel effectively, and reputation of hit-or-miss service. Until they improve their marks in CS, it's going to be a rough road. However, with a market cap of "only" $9B, their a ripe take-over target. If 2009 ends as their third straight year deep in the red, that cap will shrink and we may see some interesting action on this company next year.

One of the problems is the purchase of boost and virgin mobile.. They are branching outside of the united states and attempting to corner the market in pre-paid phone services... Not sure if the plan is to roll all boost/virgin subscribers into sprint and offer them a very very low priced phone option that can either compare and/or beat pre-paid phones or if they are going to maintain virgin outside the united states...
A lot of people forget that sprint owns boost and either already closed or will close soon on virgin mobile.. These companies aren't reflected in sprint (yet atleast)... Virgin will still maintain its old CEO from the reports i have read, even tho that CEO reports directly to Dan Hesse...
With the WiMAX partnership i think they are focusing on branching into the home broadband market... I think they see augmenting the current CDMA EVDO network as unecessary... I dont think there will be intersting actions for sprint in the upcoming year.. I think maybe at the end of next year IF (big if) verizon is able to roll out LTE like planned (total nationwide rollout), then you might see some indication if sprint is going to last or not...

[Da Pope]

One thing I remember about sprint when I had it was that if you paid your bill a day before the due date (at the store) they shut you down and asked for a 35.00 reactavation fee. (This happen to me three years ago) now I have verizon and I pay my bill the same day thru my phone and never have a late charge or have been cut off. But big red service does cost a lot compared to sprint. I wish they got down in dirty like them.

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[blue_and_bold]

Sprint announces massive layoffs, store closings amid subscriber defection

I don't think vzw is laying off people...

[TwinsX2Dad]

Sprint announces massive layoffs, store closings amid subscriber defection

I don't think vzw is laying off people...

Not yet - but it is looking to be inevitable.

VZW now has the lowest number of calls per rep of the big four.

[sprke81]

Sprint announces massive layoffs, store closings amid subscriber defection

I don't think vzw is laying off people...

What? That story is almost 2 years old...

[R.O.C.]

If Verizon does lay off employees, it will be the former Alltel employees in areas where there are an abundance of employees, and few customers...

If they do lay off employees, it only proves Twins earlier point (that was made about Sprint) true, that less customer service is need....

[R.O.C.]

And with the Droids' release, the holiday season and a possible iPhone release (in the near future), it just doesn't make sense to make any lay offs...

[stevenje98]

Good post , but Sprint is not easy to deal with. ( Prospective New Customer )

As a prospective new customer looking to switch carriers after 10 years with ATT , Sprint did not offer me anything. No discounts on phones, plans, or activation fees . I at least expected a discount because I work for The U.S Government. I really pressed them today for some kind of deal. The Sprint Rep, and Manager stood firm; of course with no sale. $576.00 is a lot these days for 2 phones. Oh, the Sprint Rep offered some chump change rebate on the phone that I would have to jump through hoops to get after two months of service. No deals to be made with Sprint despite all the recommendations received from other saying “ Sprint has the best deals for new customers” In my experience today I would say “ no way they do” I left the store very puzzled … Thinking Sprint will save me nothing over the plan I have now. This is Sprints new plan to get business going again ?

Tomorrow I’m going to try Verizon. Wish me luck.

[stevenje98]

Sprint announces massive layoffs, store closings amid subscriber defection

I don't think vzw is laying off people...

Yes, Verizon is laying off workers, there just keeping it out of the news. ( The liberal media can be bought of course ) Verizon started this two months ago very quietly… My Nephews both worked for them , both were laid- off along with other Verizon employees, one of them was a call center manager. I truly was surprised when he told me this.

[Semantics]

Good post , but Sprint is not easy to deal with. ( Prospective New Customer )

As a prospective new customer looking to switch carriers after 10 years with ATT , Sprint did not offer me anything. No discounts on phones, plans, or activation fees . I at least expected a discount because I work for The U.S Government. I really pressed them today for some kind of deal. The Sprint Rep, and Manager stood firm; of course with no sale. $576.00 is a lot these days for 2 phones. Oh, the Sprint Rep offered some chump change rebate on the phone that I would have to jump through hoops to get after two months of service. No deals to be made with Sprint despite all the recommendations of received from other saying � Sprint has the best deals for new customers� In my experience today I would say � no way they do� I left the store very puzzled � Thinking Sprint will save me nothing over the plan I have now. This is Sprints new plan to get business going again ?

Tomorrow I�m going to try Verizon. Wish me luck.

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and call BS on this. I switched to Sprint, and of course any time you sign a contract with a new carrier you get subsidized pricing on the phones. To think they are going to go beyond and give you the phone for less than new contract pricing, just because, is kind of wishful thinking. As far as getting a discount, its displayed in every single Sprint store I've ever been in that Government Employees, or employees of any municipality get 19% off their monthly bill.

Sprint has great deals on phones, and even if you have to pay a higher price up front for the hardware, you are still going to come out way ahead by the end of your two year contract. VZW, short of the BOGO isn't going to give you two phones for less than new customer pricing. No carrier will. If you want to deal with Wirefly, or Radio Shack, you can probably get the phones cheaper on a new contract.