1. MiyakSk33's Avatar
    Have noticed for awhile now that my 4G LTE has been crappy and I've also had little to no service in rural areas. This was a non-issue prior to T-Mobile upgrading their towers with LTE 12 capability. Called and confirmed with tech support that older model phones (which include my Q10) are not compatible. So high speed access is iffy unless I get a Priv. Currently my network settings are set to 4G and below. Anyone else had the same issues and have other carriers implemented the same?
    07-02-16 09:58 AM
  2. raino's Avatar
    So it sounds like you're describing two separate problems:

    1. Poor QoS where it used to be okay first
    2. Poor coverage in rural areas (where TMO ostensibly has deployed a band 12 network. We'll assume as much.)

    #1 is very likely a congestion/inadequate spectrum deployment issue: TMO has oversold that market (see Chicago as a well known example.) Of course, they aren't going to come out and say as much and rather employ questionable bandwidth preservation schemes such as Binge On and "de-prioritize" customers, but basically it sounds like they have run out of plates at the buffet. Band 12 can't really do that much to help in this case--TMO's deployments are 5x5, maybe 10x10 at best. Carrier aggregation (CA) might help, but that's really new to TMO.

    The partial phone compatibility issue is present with other carriers, but it isn't as significant IMO. Verizon's BB10 LTE phones have been fitted for band 4 and 13 LTE networks for a while, but not for band 2 or 5 (the former is in midst of a re-farm, the latter not as much.) AT&T did add one (or two?) more 700 MHz network(s) for CA and that band is also missing from BB10 phones. But in either case, the missing bands aren't supposed to be for "rural savior" networks as band 12 is supposed to be.

    Even Apple--an OEM that puts the most obscure of LTE bands in its iPhones (not necessarily a bad thing)--didn't equip its phones with band 12 until the 6s. Before that, they totally relegated TMO to regional status--even Sprint has had its 1900 MHz network (band 25) covered by Apple, and it's a relatively obscure network too, globally speaking.
    aiharkness likes this.
    07-02-16 10:44 AM
  3. MiyakSk33's Avatar
    It seems like supply is not keeping up with demand.
    07-02-16 12:24 PM
  4. gariac's Avatar
    I doubt band 4 was degraded to add band 12. I don't think band 12 is that big of a deal IF you are using the phone outside and don't have foliage interference. Lower frequencies pass through some materials better, but they don't travel any further.

    I'm mostly in urban areas or I am a desert rat. Band 12 wouldn't help me much. Tmo either has a tower or they don't.

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-16 07:59 PM
  5. joecool1029's Avatar
    Would need to know your market to look up spectrum holdings and the type of equipment in use there. Band 12 deployment should actually improve your situation as some customers will be off band 2 and 4.

    From what I gather from a lot of research, CA only works in the downlink for now and probably until cat9 phones are common. BB10 phones are all cat4 meaning if they do support it, it's only up to 20mhz down (so you can mix and match two transports like 15+15 on band 4 and 5+5 on band 2 if that's what your market has). Towers need to have it turned on though. I doubt there will be any situations where BB10 devices really benefit here. Newer tower equipment like the Ericsson AIR32 rolling out in NYC support 4x4 MIMO so this really helps with congestion and penetration.

    Rural towers that got LTE usually got band 2 since they could reuse the 1900mhz GSM antennas and just swap the radios. Usually this was deployed at 5+5mhz, but a few markets got 10+10mhz. This congests easy.. rural markets around me did this and then added band12 on top. Backhaul is actually the bottleneck on a lot of these towers. I still have one on copper by me that tops out at 12 down on any transport.

    TL;DR they are working on stuff. If this continues to be an issue call support and ask if tower work is being done in your area. If there's none then complaint about congestion.

    EDIT: there's a rural deploy not far away from me that's 10+10mhz band2 LTE with GSM1900... nothing else until getting band12 last week. That market is the main reason I got an iphone se to do volte and avoid terrible kick down to GSM and sometimes locking in on unusable edge. LTE for data there is only sane option. It def sounds like your market just had everyone sign up now that noticed LTE is there and is congesting it.


    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    Last edited by joecool1029; 07-22-16 at 03:08 AM.
    07-22-16 02:54 AM
  6. gariac's Avatar
    The kick down to Edge is terrible. In the SF Bay area, the kick down is to plain 4G, which is tolerable.

    Posted via CB10
    07-22-16 03:51 PM
  7. BeautyEh's Avatar
    Ugh...try the kick down to Edge on the I-10 corridor from LA to Phoenix. There's a good 100 mile stretch from Indio to Blythe with barely even Edge at all.

    Posted via CB10
    08-04-16 05:26 AM
  8. gariac's Avatar
    Ugh...try the kick down to Edge on the I-10 corridor from LA to Phoenix. There's a good 100 mile stretch from Indio to Blythe with barely even Edge at all.

    Posted via CB10
    I was in the Mojave, somewhere on 58, and got kicked down to Edge for voice, but the data service was LTE. Tmo keeps claiming they are going to dump Edge, but they better leave me something for voice or whitelist my VoLTE.


    Posted via CB10
    08-05-16 04:23 AM
  9. raino's Avatar
    Tmo keeps claiming they are going to dump Edge, but they better leave me something for voice or whitelist my VoLTE.
    I think they will leave a sliver of PCS. They have said they'll keep GSM around till 2020.

    It would be a very unrealistic expectation for everyone to have a voLTE-capable phone right now, especially in a closed environment (TMO approval.)
    08-05-16 01:30 PM
  10. joecool1029's Avatar
    I don't see them dumping EDGE anytime soon. They're profiting right now from all the legacy AT&T burglar/fire alarms that need to move off that network.

    What I don't understand and would love to know is if they're broadcasting on a sliver or they can use the same frequency concurrently. As I understood it they have some technology that LTE towers can switch to GSM as needed in the same channel. I'm aware GSM is usually broadcast in HSPA guards (5mhz channel can go down to 3.8mhz for HSPA and use the rest for GSM as needed)

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    08-05-16 10:21 PM
  11. raino's Avatar
    What I don't understand and would love to know is if they're broadcasting on a sliver or they can use the same frequency concurrently. As I understood it they have some technology that LTE towers can switch to GSM as needed in the same channel. I'm aware GSM is usually broadcast in HSPA guards (5mhz channel can go down to 3.8mhz for HSPA and use the rest for GSM as needed)
    I know this isn't the broad, policy-based answer you are looking for, but one possible, cumbersome and limited way to check would be by going into e-screens, under Serving Cell (LTE) and checking UL/DL bandwidth, and comparing it to TMO's band 2 holdings in your market. If you know they have a 20 MHz PCS license but LTE only shows 15 in use, you know 5 MHz is still dedicated to GSM.

    I'll keep searching on reddit. Maybe one of the engineering employees has written something about this.
    08-06-16 03:12 PM
  12. gariac's Avatar
    I know this isn't the broad, policy-based answer you are looking for, but one possible, cumbersome and limited way to check would be by going into e-screens, under Serving Cell (LTE) and checking UL/DL bandwidth, and comparing it to TMO's band 2 holdings in your market. If you know they have a 20 MHz PCS license but LTE only shows 15 in use, you know 5 MHz is still dedicated to GSM.

    I'll keep searching on reddit. Maybe one of the engineering employees has written something about this.
    When Tmo band 4 went from 15MHz to 20MHz, where did the extra 5MHz gone from? Metro?

    Posted via CB10
    08-07-16 05:43 PM
  13. raino's Avatar
    When Tmo band 4 went from 15MHz to 20MHz, where did the extra 5MHz gone from? Metro?
    A lot of it came as part of the merger with AT&T that never was--they picked up AWS spectrum in over 100 markets. It was more than what they got from the Metro merger and the swaps they do.
    08-07-16 06:51 PM
  14. raino's Avatar
    What I don't understand and would love to know is if they're broadcasting on a sliver or they can use the same frequency concurrently. As I understood it they have some technology that LTE towers can switch to GSM as needed in the same channel. I'm aware GSM is usually broadcast in HSPA guards (5mhz channel can go down to 3.8mhz for HSPA and use the rest for GSM as needed)
    If this reddit discussion is to be believed, they run GSM as slim as 2.5 MHz...and may have plans to run it off of even smaller slivers while the rest runs HSPA and LTE (probably more LTE now.)
    08-09-16 09:31 PM
  15. joecool1029's Avatar
    If this reddit discussion is to be believed, they run GSM as slim as 2.5 MHz...and may have plans to run it off of even smaller slivers while the rest runs HSPA and LTE (probably more LTE now.)
    I read it as 1.2mhz+1.2mhz (2.4mhz FDD) in Nokia markets. A GSM channel is 200khz+200khz and they said a half dozen. Neat.

    In other random news... I was in Myrtle Beach, SC a couple days ago. T-Mobile doesn't own a 700A (band 12) license there BUT they do own a 850mhz (band 5) license that's deployed on 10+10 so that's awesome. Didn't believe it but checked a bunch of times, seems that's their only place in the country they have native band 5 coverage. Presumably they also have GSM850 running as well there.

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    08-16-16 04:53 PM
  16. raino's Avatar
    In other random news... I was in Myrtle Beach, SC a couple days ago. T-Mobile doesn't own a 700A (band 12) license there BUT they do own a 850mhz (band 5) license that's deployed on 10+10 so that's awesome. Didn't believe it but checked a bunch of times, seems that's their only place in the country they have native band 5 coverage.
    LOL yes! I've read about the 850 MHz network in Mrytle Beach, SC. I wonder how they managed to nab that license?
    08-16-16 05:14 PM
  17. joecool1029's Avatar
    LOL yes! I've read about the 850 MHz network in Mrytle Beach, SC. I wonder how they managed to nab that license?
    Seems it came along when T-Mobile bought SunCom in 2008. Would guess it was a lucky grab!

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    raino likes this.
    08-16-16 10:02 PM
  18. kaliman198117's Avatar
    Yes I'm having the same problem with my z30 on Killeen TX area

    Posted via CB10
    08-23-16 09:18 AM
  19. anon(5956773)'s Avatar
    Does this effect the browsing speed and performance when using 4glte data to browse the internet?

    I have a Q10 and on tmobile in nyc and long island.

    I did notice when my Q10 uses data the performance has been a bit slow. I don't know much about band technology, so any help is appreciated.

    Posted via CB10
    09-10-16 08:23 AM
  20. joecool1029's Avatar
    most of NYC has 20mhz band4. You really aren't going to be affected by the new bands or anything to do with band12. If anything they are moving more LTE to band2 so speeds and reliability should only improve.

    What might help in the future is if they upgrade antennas to 4 TX instead of 2. This allows your phone to get a slightly stronger signal and handles congestion better.

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    09-12-16 08:24 PM
  21. Old_Mil's Avatar
    Yes I'm having the same problem with my z30 on Killeen TX area

    Posted via CB10
    North Texas seems to have a problem with this.

    Posted via CB10
    09-17-16 02:38 PM

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