12-09-09 09:54 PM
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  1. knjeru's Avatar
    You can make statistics and research conform to any argument you wish to make.

    Facts are more people prefer Verizon to AT&T. Also the ratings of customers do not support AT&T being better than anyone else.

    The latest Consumer Reports magazine ranks AT&T as the worst carrier in the nation.
    How on earth is that a fact? Using the word "prefer" instantly nullifies your argument.

    To prefer something is purely subjective, and I'm most certainly not going to trust a publically traded magazine over my own "preference."
    12-08-09 10:53 PM
  2. TheSkeptik's Avatar
    I do know that Att EDGE network in my area is faster than Verizon here, by far. All my buddies get a good chuckle out of the Verizon adds every time we see them because our area is pure red on the Verizon map and att apparently has zero service. But whatever, word of mouth matters more than those dumb commercials. I know 2 people in town with Verizon and they can't wait to get out.
    12-09-09 12:02 AM
  3. jahoobob's Avatar
    How on earth is that a fact? Using the word "prefer" instantly nullifies your argument.

    To prefer something is purely subjective, and I'm most certainly not going to trust a publically traded magazine over my own "preference."
    If 35% of people surveyed prefer something then that 35% is fact. "More people prefer" infers that a greater number prefer something vs all others so that becomes fact. If it is "I prefer" then it is no longer fact. Your US Representative was preferred by more people in your district than any other candidate and that fact translated into more vote.
    Your last statement though is totally spot on. Everyone should make decisions based on their preferences, however they should research the facts.
    Last edited by jahoobob; 12-09-09 at 12:14 AM.
    12-09-09 12:10 AM
  4. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    I definitely don't live in one of those "7 major cities." Here in Central Florida on AT&T EDGE I get 363kbps, and that was taken on 3 bars. Without a doubt our EDGE coverage is the great bc we can also roam on to T-mobile's towers down here. Got to love that GSM network, and those 850MHz towers which are everywhere.

    On 3G I get 820kbps. Thats with 5 bars and the BB browser. Using the Opera Mini browser I get 2216kbps, but because of the drastic change in speed that should be taken with a grain of salt.

    These tests were done using the BB browser which goes through a proxy so it does not reflect the true speed of AT&T's data network, and I live in an area where everyone and their grandparents has an Iphone. lol

    All in all I get fantastic 3G/EDGE coverage, and I've never had a dropped call. I do believe that these debates don't fully account for the individuals location to the carrier's tower which obviously affects their coverage.
    On verizons 1XEV network with a rev0 berry and ONE bar of service I got 1072 kbps down and 121 kbps up.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-09-09 12:33 AM
  5. dictoresno's Avatar
    um, from AT&T's website

    "The AT&T EDGE network is available in more than 13,000 cities and towns and in areas along 40,000 miles of highways. It provides average data speeds between 75-135Kbps."

    AT&T EDGE | Wireless from AT&T, formerly Cingular


    from Verizon's website

    What is 3G?

    By now, it's been established that 3G technology is a good thing.
    But...what exactly is 3G?

    "3G brings wireless broadband data services to your mobile phone at average download speeds that range from 600 Kbps (that's 2.4 times faster than 254Kbps DSL modem connection) to 1.4Mbps."

    Verizon Wireless 3G

    also pay attention to that lovely map that has a lot more red than blue

    I am not repeating propaganda, i am speaking fact, I am not an ***** on cellular technology

    and actually for the record, I am not too fond of Verizon Wireless, I liked my Alltel service
    maybe they lowball their stats. i tend to believe real world experience, over what the stupid at&t website says. ive run many speed tests, both tethered and over the BB and have never got less than 150 kbps. also, heres some wiki info on EDGE.

    "EDGE can carry a bandwidth up to 236.8 kbit/s (with end-to-end latency of less than 150 ms) for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode. This means it can handle four times as much traffic as standard GPRS. EDGE meets the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards. It also enhances the circuit data mode called HSCSD, increasing the data rate of this service. EDGE is part of ITU's 3G definition and is considered a 3G radio technology.[1]"

    i would be really hard pressed to see what they wrote on their site as actual averages. under a severe network strain, i would understand if i saw those speeds, but cant agree that they are an "average".

    i firmly believe, through my own experiences, that averages are closer to 150-200 kbps, with bursts climbing to 350+. i myself have seen a 400kbps download speed before on EDGE. iDEN and older TDMA networks, were seeing maximums around 100 kbps. i wont deny that speeds could drop that low, but saying they are average, well that just seems too low. we should have a "post your speed results" thread to capture some real world data.
    12-09-09 12:42 AM
  6. dictoresno's Avatar
    On verizons 1XEV network with a rev0 berry and ONE bar of service I got 1072 kbps down and 121 kbps up.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    that sounds a little fishy.
    12-09-09 12:44 AM
  7. knjeru's Avatar
    If 35% of people surveyed prefer something then that 35% is fact. "More people prefer" infers that a greater number prefer something vs all others so that becomes fact. If it is "I prefer" then it is no longer fact. Your US Representative was preferred by more people in your district than any other candidate and that fact translated into more vote.
    Your last statement though is totally spot on. Everyone should make decisions based on their preferences, however they should research the facts.
    I believe your statement is blurring the line b/t a fact and opinion even if it applies to the masses, and is definitely derailing from my issue with the originally quoted offense; which was their assumption which had NO true statistical backing that said most people preferred Verizon. But if you look it over and still want to continue to debate this, feel free to pm me.

    On-Topic:

    What browser was that test done in? I'd like to run it as well because Opera mini will produce 7600kbps on a 7MB file on 3G which means its transferring a little under 1mbps. Can that really be possible? I do believe we should have a speed contest. Oh and all my tests have been done on a BB 9700
    12-09-09 01:05 AM
  8. dictoresno's Avatar
    What browser was that test done in? I'd like to run it as well because Opera mini will produce 7600kbps on a 7MB file on 3G which means its transferring a little under 1mbps. Can that really be possible? I do believe we should have a speed contest. Oh and all my tests have been done on a BB 9700

    NO! you cant run speed tests through opera mini, as it is all run through opera servers and will give you their servers speed test results, not your phone/network/browsers actual tests. they will always be unusually high. you need to either do it one of two ways....

    1.) tether to a computer and run a normal PC speed test (this will be most accurate)
    2.) use the speed test app from xtremelabs (less accurate as its limited by the phones processor speed)
    Last edited by dictoresno; 12-09-09 at 02:26 AM.
    12-09-09 02:22 AM
  9. psiclne's Avatar
    The CEO and Co-Founder of Root Wireless, Paul Griff, previously worked for Cellular One. Ron Dicklin, another Root Co-Founder has worked for AT&T. Scott I. Anderson, a Director worked for, you guessed it, AT&T. Both Griff and Anderson also worked for McCaw Communications that eventually became AT&T Wireless Services.

    I think the article would have swung the other way if im understanding where your goin with this. I for one would not write a good article for my ex-employer, I would write an article to sway people to goto the competition of my ex employer. I have friends that work for at&t and my friends hate them with a passion. But thats just me.
    12-09-09 03:35 AM
  10. jahoobob's Avatar
    I think the article would have swung the other way if im understanding where your goin with this. I for one would not write a good article for my ex-employer, I would write an article to sway people to goto the competition of my ex employer. I have friends that work for at&t and my friends hate them with a passion. But thats just me.
    I don't think these guys were fired by their former employers, I believe they left on their own accord and formed Root. I would agree with you if they had been fired or if they were in competition with their former company.
    12-09-09 10:23 AM
  11. Gawain's Avatar
    that sounds a little fishy.
    Actually, the signal strength on a CDMA network doesn't affect throughput so much, since the signaling is based on code, versus channel and time for GSM.

    I rarely get the "lab" quality throughput on my berry, but it is pretty consistent.

    Another comparison would be to look at it from an SLA (Service Level Agreement) perspective. Would you rather have 768kbps 99% of the time? Or 1.5Mbps 50% of the time? In theory, you'd transfer the same amount of data given the time, but what makes you more productive, consistent access or faster throughput (assuming they're mutually exclusive just for the sake of argument)?
    12-09-09 10:26 AM
  12. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    that sounds a little fishy.
    It was done at 1230 AM today from zip code 16301-7022 using Xtreme labs speedtest app

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-09-09 10:33 AM
  13. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    I will admit though that I haven't replicated it. Just ran the app several more times and am getting 600 to 700 down and right around 100 up.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-09-09 10:39 AM
  14. s.hasan546's Avatar
    ATT may have the "faster" network but i have never seen those speeds in real life. i used the speed test on the iphone 3gs and got 250ish kbs down load compared to my droid which i recieved 580ish kbs.

    Im located in Manhattan. With alot of travelign in long island and queens. ATT SUCKS in NY. absolutetly horrible. You may have better "signal" according to your phone but many many many dropped/failed calls. Many times with att my phone would have service but i would not recieve any calls and they would go to straight voicemail.

    I lost a good amount of business because of att and thats why i switched to verizon. Att blows in ny and anyone who thinks thats not true is smoking some crack.

    Most of these reports are very very biased. like someone said already consumer reports rated ATT LAST. They are not too biased.

    However, its not that ATT's network is bad quality. Arguably they have the best network. It's just that their network is overloaded with Smartphone users (aka the iphone) who use an enormous amount of data.


    **** both att and verizon should shut up about their data networks since Sprint is rolling out 4G already.
    12-09-09 06:57 PM
  15. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    Wimax is hardly a viable 4G technology, and Verizon has LTE towers that they are testing all across the nation.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-09-09 08:29 PM
  16. cenloe's Avatar
    12-09-09 09:03 PM
  17. big.daddy's Avatar
    c'mon now, not another carrier war thread. Ok to the At&t customers, your 3g is faster. to the verizon customers your 3g is bigger. Ok can we stop this bs now? if your happy on At&t stay there, if your happy on verizon stay there.
    12-09-09 09:54 PM
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