12-07-09 05:49 PM
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  1. chiwo's Avatar
    Sprint handed customer GPS data to law enforcement over 8 million times last year -- Engadget

    PPCGeeks Blog Archive [Updated] Sprint Revealed GPS Data 8 Million Times To Govt.

    They sell their users' GPS data to the government for money... this makes me want to leave Sprint... their so called most "dependable" 3G network...
    12-02-09 10:02 PM
  2. Jo_795's Avatar
    WAA WAAA is all i hear right now oh well other countries have it bad should be happy how things are here compared to others..
    12-02-09 10:06 PM
  3. Avalaunchmods's Avatar
    Find this completely fine. i have nothing to hide and its not like they are looking for the average joe. law enforcement have been doing this with normal GPS units in cars for years now.
    12-02-09 10:07 PM
  4. jlsparks's Avatar
    And this is surprising how? Sprint was first on the bandwagon to authorize warrantless wiretaps on voice and data connections, and first in line to seek legislative immunity from Congress for their egregious violations of millions of innocent Americans, whose cell calls inside the US were intercepted (you can't do that, FYI.) Sprint lept at the opportunity to assist in the development and implementation of, and now the management for, the government's DCSNet, which essentially allows a geek in a dark room to remotely connect to your CO, put a trap on your line, and monitor it (no more FISA court necessary, just dial-a-geek.)

    Yes, Sprint spewed 8 millions instances of GPS data dumps to the government. Shocking. They're even generous enough to provide the Feds with a dedicated, secure portal to access the GPS (and who knows what other) information about their customers. This, Dorothy, is precisely why my phone's GPS is always off. While I have nothing to hide, under no circumstances do Sprint or the Feds need to know when and to which Walgreens I went for dogfood.

    Christopher Soghoian, a graduate student at Indiana University's School of Informatics and Computing, has made public an audio recording of Sprint/Nextel's Electronic Surveillance Manager describing how his company has provided GPS location data about its wireless customers to law enforcement over 8 million times. That's potentially millions of Sprint/Nextel customers who not only were probably unaware that their wireless provider even had an Electronic Surveillance Department, but who certainly did not know that law enforcement offers could log into a special Sprint Web portal and, without ever having to demonstrate probable cause to a judge, gain access to geolocation logs detailing where they've been and where they are.

    Through a mix of documents unearthed by Freedom of Information Act requests and the aforementioned recording, Soghoian describes how "the government routinely obtains customer records from ISPs detailing the telephone numbers dialed, text messages, emails and instant messages sent, web pages browsed, the queries submitted to search engines, and geolocation data, detailing exactly where an individual was located at a particular date and time."
    12-02-09 10:19 PM
  5. bearkat38's Avatar
    And this is surprising how? Sprint was first on the bandwagon to authorize warrantless wiretaps on voice and data connections, and first in line to seek legislative immunity from Congress for their egregious violations of millions of innocent Americans, whose cell calls inside the US were intercepted (you can't do that, FYI.) Sprint lept at the opportunity to assist in the development and implementation of, and now the management for, the government's DCSNet, which essentially allows a geek in a dark room to remotely connect to your CO, put a trap on your line, and monitor it (no more FISA court necessary, just dial-a-geek.)

    Yes, Sprint spewed 8 millions instances of GPS data dumps to the government. Shocking. They're even generous enough to provide the Feds with a dedicated, secure portal to access the GPS (and who knows what other) information about their customers. This, Dorothy, is precisely why my phone's GPS is always off. While I have nothing to hide, under no circumstances do Sprint or the Feds need to know when and to which Walgreens I went for dogfood.
    +1!! Amen!!
    12-02-09 10:23 PM
  6. jlsparks's Avatar
    Find this completely fine. i have nothing to hide and its not like they are looking for the average joe. law enforcement have been doing this with normal GPS units in cars for years now.
    The standard line: "I have nothing to hide." That's fine and dandy, and nor do I, but the point is that there are, in many aspects of our lives, an expectation of privacy. When I'm driving in my car, cross-country, using my GPS I have every expectation of privacy, and that my trip will be unimpeded by law enforcement unless I commit an infraction.

    And in any event, last I checked Garmin wasn't selling GPS tracking info to the government.
    12-02-09 10:23 PM
  7. cheech73's Avatar
    All that information given to the govt was at request, sprint spokesperson Matt Sullivan reports...here is a direct quote.... , "In all cases we require a valid legal request appropriate for the circumstances, meaning the request must be accompanied by either a subpoena, court order or customer consent." Sprint is not alone in this practice. All wireless carriers share customer information with law enforcement agencies when the need is mandated.

    ALL wireless carriers!
    12-02-09 10:44 PM
  8. heckufaguy's Avatar
    I wonder if E911 Gps located 911 calls are lumped into this category too. Your carrier is indeed giving the operator your location when you call 911. Probably under an implied consent in your users agreement.

    I'd much rather worry about onstar, then my cellphone (which can reside in a led box if needed)
    12-02-09 10:56 PM
  9. 2000 Man's Avatar
    All that information given to the govt was at request, sprint spokesperson Matt Sullivan reports...here is a direct quote.... , "In all cases we require a valid legal request appropriate for the circumstances, meaning the request must be accompanied by either a subpoena, court order or customer consent." Sprint is not alone in this practice. All wireless carriers share customer information with law enforcement agencies when the need is mandated.

    ALL wireless carriers!
    Thank you for the first intelligent post in this thread.
    12-02-09 11:13 PM
  10. coolguy78240's Avatar
    if some one robbed your house and stole everything including your phone wouldnt you want sprint to turn over its location? if you have nothing to hide dont worry about it. trust me if we knew half of what the government knows about us it would make you **** your pants.

    gosh you cant even type p=o=o=p
    12-02-09 11:30 PM
  11. Semantics's Avatar
    The standard line: "I have nothing to hide." That's fine and dandy, and nor do I, but the point is that there are, in many aspects of our lives, an expectation of privacy. When I'm driving in my car, cross-country, using my GPS I have every expectation of privacy, and that my trip will be unimpeded by law enforcement unless I commit an infraction.

    And in any event, last I checked Garmin wasn't selling GPS tracking info to the government.
    You have some bizarre agenda, and I'm not sure why, but whatever. Do you realize that a subpoena is required to get this information? Do you realize that we regularly subpoena Verizon for the same records and get them? Probably not, but its true. They don't "sell" anything. There are legal channels that the feds or local law enforcement have to go through to get this information, and it requires a subpoena. You make long and eloquent posts, I'll give you that. Even if you are misinformed.

    For all of you paranoid people, I submit :

    Sprint has issued a statement to explain that the high numbers (8 million) represent the number of “pings”, not the amount of users accessed. There can be thousands of pings per a single investigation. In a single investigation, once law enforcement has a court order, it can check someone’s location every 3 minutes for up to 60 days — and that’s what made the number so inflated.
    Last edited by Semantics; 12-02-09 at 11:56 PM.
    12-02-09 11:47 PM
  12. rayzryd266's Avatar
    Does anyone really think law enforcement cares when and if you go to walgreens? That's not what's being tracked. If you truly have nothing to hide it really shouldn't matter. This is only one of MANY tools that are used to follow, gather intel and evidence on those commiting crimes across the country. If you truly knew what goes on around you every day I think you would be more understanding
    12-03-09 12:00 AM
  13. SCrid2000's Avatar
    It's not like there's not a million ways to track someone anyways. If you don't like it, find a way to turn off your GPS. Then, build underground caverns and stockpile food. Won't help much though, ever hear of satelites? Government knows what you do if you want to.
    Haha, I wish Sprint sold the info - maybe they'd use the income to lower my bill... Nah

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-03-09 12:24 AM
  14. wolf1989's Avatar
    And why exactly is this shocking? This is how it works for any company. You can't exactly ignore a subpoena and not go to jail. Whether it's Verizon, At&t. T-mobile, or Sprint they are bound by law to follow the subpoena. The agency must show that they have a reason to secure that subpoena before a judge will grant them one specifically to that persons account. This isn't some willy nilly sprint handing out things. This is really quite a common thing.
    12-03-09 02:52 AM
  15. Semantics's Avatar
    And why exactly is this shocking? This is how it works for any company. You can't exactly ignore a subpoena and not go to jail. Whether it's Verizon, At&t. T-mobile, or Sprint they are bound by law to follow the subpoena. The agency must show that they have a reason to secure that subpoena before a judge will grant them one specifically to that persons account. This isn't some willy nilly sprint handing out things. This is really quite a common thing.
    Of course its common practice, despite the rhetoric that jpsparks is saying. I know for a fact that you cannot call Sprint and get any information, not even a name associated with an account without a subpoena. People fail to realize that if the police go through the process to get phone records, or gps pings, its not just to spy on people. Every single carrier has their own legal dept we have to go through. There is no geek in a closet working for Sprint who gives info to any officer.

    Don't forget to factor in 911 calls, they count toward the total. It's beyond ridiculous to suggest that the info is sold, and if most of you realized how many murderers and other dangerous felons are caught by gps, you would sleep better at night. No one gives a **** about you going to walgreens.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-03-09 03:19 AM
  16. Jo_795's Avatar
    [/quote]
    They sell their users' GPS data to the government for money... this makes me want to leave Sprint... their so called most "dependable" 3G network...[/QUOTE]

    this is what shocked me the most errr.. i mean annoyed me the most.. who cares other carrierrs probably do the same you might as well not have a cell phone anymore then
    12-03-09 04:21 AM
  17. ERDude's Avatar
    Man that big red cool-aide must be something great. Fanboys make me laugh.
    12-03-09 10:00 AM
  18. saintj's Avatar
    Be glad sprint is a company that at least let's you know what they are doing
    12-03-09 09:26 PM
  19. mobbuser's Avatar
    Since what we're talking about is GPS, here's a thought for the discussion. Who do you think launched, created and maintained those global positioning satellites that consumer products like your cell phone are now using? If you guessed big brother, you're correct. What they gain through legit means such as requests from cell companies is probably a drop in the bucket. If you you're keeping your nose even ralatively clean, just go about your business and forget about it.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-03-09 09:46 PM
  20. Gawain's Avatar
    I wonder if E911 Gps located 911 calls are lumped into this category too. Your carrier is indeed giving the operator your location when you call 911. Probably under an implied consent in your users agreement.

    I'd much rather worry about onstar, then my cellphone (which can reside in a led box if needed)
    E911 is not solely on the carrier. The answering point may or may not be fully up to standards which aren't fully required until 2012 or something. Even then, E911 still has problems when calls are made by a cell from inside buildings, and in rural areas. The acceptable margin is 50-300 meters.
    12-03-09 09:52 PM
  21. jlsparks's Avatar
    You have some bizarre agenda, and I'm not sure why, but whatever. Do you realize that a subpoena is required to get this information? Do you realize that we regularly subpoena Verizon for the same records and get them? Probably not, but its true. They don't "sell" anything. There are legal channels that the feds or local law enforcement have to go through to get this information, and it requires a subpoena. You make long and eloquent posts, I'll give you that. Even if you are misinformed.

    For all of you paranoid people, I submit :
    Yes I do have an agenda, and it's two-fold: 1) my first amendment right to peaceably gather and communicate, absent making threats and; 2) my fourth amendment right protecting me from unlawful search and seizure.

    Beyond that I am agenda-free. I want the FBI to actively pursue legitimate FISA warrants to track down potential terrorists (eg: Denver->NYC bust); I understand that under CALEA the carriers are obligated to provide information. We too have subpoenaed in many instances carrier records for specific cell numbers seeking specific information like call history, text history, things of that nature. And you're correct, again, that the carriers have legal departments for non-law-enforcement folk to channel their subpoenas through. What's troubling to me is exactly what I already said: it's not my ex-gf's lawyer dropping a subpoena on VZW for evidence that I drunk texted her 392 times in a 6 hour span), it's the government *NOT* dropping *ANY* subpoena, warrant, or other legal instrument requiring production of documents on the carriers. What's more troubling is that Sprint has become so cozy with the Feds as to establish a secure portal for the Feds to track their taps real-time. Again, if the target is a bad guy (as substantiated by a warrant sworn too and signed by a law enforcement officer including probable cause as to why the tap would/might garner evidence proving the alleged bad guy is complicit in some illegal activity that is GREAT! I'm 100% behind it. But between DCSNet, the secure portal, and the release of 8 million pings, Sprint just seems to be pretty comfortable releasing/making their network more than readily accessible to law enforcement. While all carriers are required to provide ready technical access and support to their switches and core when lawfully directed to do so, Sprint, IMO, crosses the line time and again.

    Thanks for your compliment on my posts.
    Last edited by jlsparks; 12-03-09 at 10:03 PM.
    12-03-09 10:00 PM
  22. SCrid2000's Avatar
    How exactly is it unlawful search and seizure for Sprint to give information they have that you freely gave them? Did Sprint agree to not release it to government authorities? Again, if you don't want your whereabouts known, don't have a GPS phone.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-03-09 10:10 PM
  23. jlsparks's Avatar
    How exactly is it unlawful search and seizure for Sprint to give information they have that you freely gave them? Did Sprint agree to not release it to government authorities? Again, if you don't want your whereabouts known, don't have a GPS phone.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I'm sorry you are misinformed. Scholars Reject Obama’s Stance on Warrantless Cell-Phone Records | Threat Level | Wired.com

    The last 4 paragraphs are of particular note and exactly in line with my post.
    12-03-09 10:33 PM
  24. IZZY Dead's Avatar
    If your going to be a criminal leave your phone at home. It seems to be the new calling card for I am a stupid criminal. Post dating the Drivers License, Finger Print Etc.
    And if Law enforcement wants to get a warrant to tap your phone they will get it no matter what carrier you are with.
    12-03-09 10:47 PM
  25. jlsparks's Avatar
    If your going to be a criminal leave your phone at home. It seems to be the new calling card for I am a stupid criminal. Post dating the Drivers License, Finger Print Etc.
    And if Law enforcement wants to get a warrant to tap your phone they will get it no matter what carrier you are with.
    Exactly my point: if they have probably cause they can articulate to a judge, then by all mens trace/tap them I just take issue with carriers who on their ow and without a lawful order release personal info.
    12-03-09 10:53 PM
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