[Branta]

And the discerning members will be able to guess what happened within a few hours when I said "always fixed it so far"

[TwinsX2Dad]

It's okay to be enthusiastic about something but at the same time criticize it. It shows he really cares about the product because he wants it to be better.

I want them all to be better for each & every user. I don't care which brand or platform. Same ball architecture on the G1 as on Curve & earlier. Tour/Bold are similar, as well - with Tour in a different mounting orientation.

As Branta points out, it does usually seem to be debris. With the size of the trackball mechanism, it doesn't take much. Unlike a desktop mouse, these trackballs are not easily separated from their rollers - odds are if you try, it will not be going back together. Debris is indicated by the ball suddenly feeling different in one or more directions, even to the point of not moving in that direction.

Now if it occurs like it does in the Tour, where the ball rolls, with either no cursor action or reversed action, it could be debris, software or the pickup.

Regardless, when fixed, it doesn't always stay fixed - the problem could return in 3 hours, 3 weeks or 3 months. With the Curve, 8830 or G1, I never had these issues - if you can get them wholesale, trackballs are $4.50/100 - or free even, depending on connections. I simply replace them whenever they show the slightest reluctance.

As for kicking rocks, I do that everyday online & with manufacturers. The people I kick rocks at really don't like it when I show up armed to the gills with data, facts & documentation.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[DesertDogs]

I smell a troll.

under every bridge.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[he11fire]

I smell a troll. Lol oh yea the storm is better. Tour has double the memory and speed. Tht cam is better and the tour dors not reboot every 5 min! Your just Jealous. Ha ha I got a tour and you are stuck with the pos storm!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Don't they use the same camera?

I do agree that the Storm would be much better suited with 256 app memory, but mine runs just fine on 128, so I don't know that it's something I'd use to help me decide between the 2 phones.

[Branta]

I want them all to be better for each & every user. I don't care which brand or platform. Same ball architecture on the G1 as on Curve & earlier. Tour/Bold are similar, as well - with Tour in a different mounting orientation.

As Branta points out, it does usually seem to be debris. With the size of the trackball mechanism, it doesn't take much. Unlike a desktop mouse, these trackballs are not easily separated from their rollers - odds are if you try, it will not be going back together. Debris is indicated by the ball suddenly feeling different in one or more directions, even to the point of not moving in that direction.

Now if it occurs like it does in the Tour, where the ball rolls, with either no cursor action or reversed action, it could be debris, software or the pickup

I still consider a mechanical problem to be the most frequent cause of trouble. Software should resolve with a battery pull so that is easy to eliminate. Pickup (rotation sensing) is by magnet on the end of each roller, so probably Hall Effect sensors on the pcb. If there's a problem here it is likely to be a hard failure, but the problems seem to be intermittent and resolved if the user has the courage to clean the ball. That leaves debris as the most common cause, and it is supported by user reports that the ball feels different in the failure direction.

Update on my problem with the Bold. Ball module out, cleaned with air and movement. Loads of crap removed. Back in and working normally. After 7 months there was very little debris but 2 months later it was bad. Noted that natural action of the ball is to eject debris onto the "top" where it should be removed by fingers, but the chrome bezel/retainer around the ball traps debris against the ball housing, so enything swept out by the ball's movement gets lodged and compacted inside the chrome ring instead of ejected completely.

Also backing up the comment about NOT dismantling the ball module to remove the ball and rollers. Don't do it unless there is no other choice, it's a PITA to reassemble. Very small and fiddly, and the rollers have magnetic ends which stick to everything.

The one interesting thought about this is that most of the Tour reports seem to suggest loss of Right scroll. That is exactly what I got today on the Bold. As Twins says, the modules are pretty similar but I think the body mounting orientation is turned 90 degrees. However... loss of Right seems to be dominant and disproportionate. Could this be influenced by the way we use the ball? Right handed? More/less L/R scrolling compared with up/down?

[FF22]

I wonder why rim saw fit to move the trackball housing more internally to the entire case. Now it is a major task to remove, replace or clean. Looks more sleek but looks are not always everything.

[indielovemedia]

Im on my 3rd Sprint Tour., and I am still having trackball problems. M wife uses the 8830 and god, how that trackball works good. WTF! Sprint and RIM need to get it together

[patches152]

there is no widespread problem with the trackball. There is so much misinformation on this issue that it has gotten out of hand.

People are returning perfectly functioning devices because of what they read on these forums ( the trackball test ) then they go onto to exchange it and get another "bad" one. Its pretty obvious that a lot of these users haven't got a clue.

Good information gets passed over while the bad info spreads as truth so the cycle will continue.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

sorta like the memory leaks and click screen problems with the storms?

i call this the placebo sheeple effect...like 10 people have legit problems, they discuss it, and 90 n00bs who have no business even owning the device become hypochondriacs, but with blackberry issues instead of health problems...i'd speculate that they are really hypochondriacs also on top of the sh33ple issue they also have...

[cereal killer]

sorta like the memory leaks and click screen problems with the storms?

i call this the placebo sheeple effect...like 10 people have legit problems, they discuss it, and 90 n00bs who have no business even owning the device become hypochondriacs, but with blackberry issues instead of health problems...i'd speculate that they are really hypochondriacs also on top of the sh33ple issue they also have...

ha sheeple effect. Go into the Tour forums for the full experience.

Too bad this thread is not in there. This thread has some great info in it.

[patches152]

well i agree, but the topic is if VZW is aware of the trackball issue...if the topic was "what carriers are acknowledging the trackball issue for the tour?" then that'd apply to the tour forum


sorry, i'm becoming a topic nazi in my old age lol

[cereal killer]

I have found a "fix" for the text field bug. Some people have been complaining that when they are in text fields (sms, email) and they want to go back and edit text they cant get the trackball to cooperate. It's all over the place.

Well patches, the sheeple, tell the poster to return the device it's defective but here's the solution that DOES work.

When typing in the field and one needs to go back and edit. Just hit escape (arrow key to right of trackball) a menu with save/discard/cancel pops up hit CANCEL and you are good to go. Trackball scrolls freely.

You dont have to keep doing this to edit in the field, one time solves that bug.

Anyway patches quit making me go off topic.......

[patches152]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[cereal killer]

Code 18 aka PEBCAK....

damnitt patches...

[bigbizkits]

http://forums.crackberry.com/f141/tr...r-tour-273700/
http://forums.crackberry.com/f141/fi...g-well-261266/
http://forums.crackberry.com/f141/to...g-best-268880/

[patches152]

those are all PEBCAK...RIM's PEBCAK!!!!!!!

[bigbizkits]

PEBCAK? The issue isn't with the keyboard, genius. It's with the trackball (PEBCAT?). If you're going to slam the people that are experiencing issues with the devices, try to be relevant. Hey, maybe even try using a term that isn't ancient and stale.
This string has turned into a joke, as patches and cereal killer seem to enjoy slamming everyone. This is a real issue. While I don't claim to be the expert on Blackberry devices, I have had every single Verizon BB device since the 7130. On our corporate account, we currently have 117 BB devices. Certainly not a huge account, but enough for I.T. (me) to be familiar with them. Overall, the devices are excellent. We have had random issues here and there (mostly due to anomalous hardware or software - or ..yes....even user issues). But the issue with the Tour is real. I don't know if it is hardware or software but it is real, and "feathering, pushing it hard, caressing it, doggie style, whatever" doesn't fix this issue. Verizon is aware of it. RIM is aware of it. I don't doubt that they are working on a fix (as some posts suggest) but until they do, this device has a known issue. Patches and cereal killer, you two should get a room and '"feather" each other.

[patches152]

PEBCAK? The issue isn't with the keyboard, genius. It's with the trackball (PEBCAT?). If you're going to slam the people that are experiencing issues with the devices, try to be relevant. Hey, maybe even try using a term that isn't ancient and stale.
This string has turned into a joke, as patches and cereal killer seem to enjoy slamming everyone. This is a real issue. While I don't claim to be the expert on Blackberry devices, I have had every single Verizon BB device since the 7130. On our corporate account, we currently have 117 BB devices. Certainly not a huge account, but enough for I.T. (me) to be familiar with them. Overall, the devices are excellent. We have had random issues here and there (mostly due to anomalous hardware or software - or ..yes....even user issues). But the issue with the Tour is real. I don't know if it is hardware or software but it is real, and "feathering, pushing it hard, caressing it, doggie style, whatever" doesn't fix this issue. Verizon is aware of it. RIM is aware of it. I don't doubt that they are working on a fix (as some posts suggest) but until they do, this device has a known issue. Patches and cereal killer, you two should get a room and '"feather" each other.

here comes the white knight to save crackberry from a couple of jokers!!!


seriously, we all know that the trackball is the problem...get over yourself. there's nothing we can do to fix it other than bring it up with VZW, so gtfo and talk to them if it's a serious issue for you. i don't own a tour, so here's how it would go if i helped, "hey vzw tech guy, i don't own a tour but i heard on teh interwebz that the track ball sucks. is that true?"

[bigbizkits]

In all fairness. Cereal killer (more so than you) looks to have been having fun aggravating people looking for insight. Many of us have been through that process with Verizon techs. It is a known issue at this point (which was the topic of this thread). We come to these forums to get feedback from each other (and possibly even insight into resolution). "We all know the trackball is the issue". Really? I see. So it's just fun for some people to post on and on about how it's people that don't know what they are doing on a Blackberry and such...?? I guess I don't get it. Likely a maturity thing. You guys will keep doing what you do. It just amazes me at how immature these forums get with stuff like this. Class act.

[patches152]

In all fairness. Cereal killer (more so than you) looks to have been having fun aggravating people looking for insight. Many of us have been through that process with Verizon techs. It is a known issue at this point (which was the topic of this thread). We come to these forums to get feedback from each other (and possibly even insight into resolution). "We all know the trackball is the issue". Really? I see. So it's just fun for some people to post on and on about how it's people that don't know what they are doing on a Blackberry and such...?? I guess I don't get it. Likely a maturity thing. You guys will keep doing what you do. It just amazes me at how immature these forums get with stuff like this. Class act.

tell ya what, when you've dealt with people around here as long as i have (don't let the join date fool you, i've been lurking for over 4 years, 2 of which when i was VZW tech support) and you know the kind of users that frequent here you'll realize that

1) most issues ARE user error
2) we need to vent a little bit too, and joking is the most productive way to vent

otherwise you'd have nobody around here to help, all the veteran people with the answers would have a stroke from the stress caused, and the n00bs would be helping the n00bs...

if you can't hang with the joking, i suggest you find a big boy's forum to discuss your bowel movements, and the weather...

[bigbizkits]

I have been managing I.T. departments - including technicians, helpdesk staff, network engineers, etc.. for almost 9 years now. I've been doing support and I.T. for over 15 years. It's common for tech support guys to get all "jaded" by silly user issues. That is the difference between a good support person and a typical I.T. know-it-all. I know the type. I've let a few of them go. Believe it or not, there are veteran people that keep their chin up - and may have plenty to say about specific users among themselves - but don't resort to slamming the users in an open forum. Good luck with that. Oh, and - good one about the bowel movements and the weather. Nice to see you brought jokes.

[patches152]

the difference between slamming, and joking is the intent to initiate a conflict...i merely try to lighten up the conversation, maybe some dark humor, but still....if we can achieve the objective of helping people, and keep it light and casual then there are more happy users than disgruntled **** hurt n00bs...

but yea, thick skin comes with the territory i suppose...

[bigbizkits]

Trackball issue truly resolved! Just to add to the resolution of this issue... After going through 5 Tours (between 2 of us here at my office) that had the trackball issues, and reading the forums about the newly shipped Tours with fixed trackballs (noted by the green sticker on the box), I got my hands on one of these. I've had it for over a week with zero issues. I spoke to a Verizon rep and he read the inner office email to me. It basically said that the issue is known and resolved with this new batch of Tours. MAKE SURE YOU GET ONE WITH THE GREEN "DOT" STICKER ON THE BOX. It seems to be true. Hope this helps some of you, as I was getting really bummed about the issue and had resorted back to the Curve until getting the latest Tour. Glad to see this was fixed!

[blue_and_bold]

Goodbye Eva

[Super_Mario]

Hi everybody,

My name is Eva, I am 41 yrs old, living in Scottsdale, AZ.

I'd love to make good close friends here.

Thanks,
Eva.

WTF!

[pkcable]

Goodbye Eva

WTF!

Eva will bother us no more!