[ComfortablyNumb]

So let me see........when my Directv DVR goes out do I call RCA(or whoever makes the DVR) to come fix my DVR? No! I call Directv because that who I pay for my service. I think Verizon reps need to go back and re-evaluate what customer service is. It isn't pawning it off on RIM. Stand up and say we will take care of you because you are a valued customer. What a novel idea.

Or just because verizon sends us pretty paychecks...

[IMP42]

So getting into a discussion on a message board about Blackberries is just ********? I put the scenerio out there and I basically get told I am just another customer trying to beat the system. If that is what you want to believe then so be it. I am a good customer that pays his bill on time and ask for the service I expect from every company I pay my money to. Good Luck to you.

Congrats you are fulfilling your part of you contract, as VZW is fulfilling their part and much more. As previously stated, VZW does not HAVE to provide tech support for devices. They could make you call the manufacturer for all of your issues. **** if they really want to they could charge "X" amount a minute for tech support every time you have a problem.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[vatothe0]

**** if they really want to they could charge "X" amount a minute for tech support every time you have a problem.

Sprint charged like $3 to call CS for a while. That was their idea of customer serivce.

[akiva7777]

Congrats you are fulfilling your part of you contract, as VZW is fulfilling their part and much more. As previously stated, VZW does not HAVE to provide tech support for devices. They could make you call the manufacturer for all of your issues. **** if they really want to they could charge "X" amount a minute for tech support every time you have a problem.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

yeah, but if we charged, i wouldnt get such great questions like "is the droid right for me?" and "I just have some questions about___ device".

But on the other hand, i think that it would take care of the B. S. callers......hhmmmmm Think there might be a rise in it, cause i dont get paid enough to listen to this kind of cr@p: I pay this much money give me a new phone now! no, im NOT going to trouble shoot!!what do you mean your not going to give me a new phone with out trouble shooting..... what do you mean it wouldnt be a new phone anyway!?!?!?!?!

[Zukin]

So let me see........when my Directv DVR goes out do I call RCA(or whoever makes the DVR) to come fix my DVR? No! I call Directv because that who I pay for my service. I think Verizon reps need to go back and re-evaluate what customer service is. It isn't pawning it off on RIM. Stand up and say we will take care of you because you are a valued customer. What a novel idea.

Actually no.
We do what we are told to do.
If you read the fine print of your contract, it states that any time your device is defective, hardware failure, etc you are/will be getting a Certified Like NEW replacement of your device under "warranty". IMO, VZW should have never came out with a Multi-FRU, for people like you, who expect to get what they want, when they want it, and will cry like a 2-year old. It seems to me you've gotten your way your entire life like this.

VZW is your SERVICE provider. For voice, data, text... Not your manufacture. The manufacture has given us the rules and policies on how to replace the device. Each Multi-FRU that was given out The manufacture lost money, as well as the carrier, but more so the manufacture lost money.

People who whine and moan about this policy being gone are those who didn't want to pay for a device - and wanted X device free, as well as their contract date/eligibility date not move up. All it is is QQ'ing about.. VZW can do as they please, and hey... if you switch companies, you'll be in the same boat. So I guess if you want something that works....then don't get a PDA/smartphone. When I had my basic phone, I rarely if at all had issues. When I got my PDA, I had some issues, but not as many as what people call in Tech Support for.

MOST of the issues are user error, very very rarely is it the phone's error. When the S2 came out, I got 10+ calls a day from customers complaining about their S1 "malfunctioning" and requesting and demanding they DESERVE the S2.

Right..

[Zukin]

OK Sweetcheeks.....you can get off your soapbox now. Come out of your CSR world and put yourself into the real world and tell me you don't expect good customer service. I am a business user and need my phone to work and not give me J]VM errors. I will say it until I am blue in the face that I pay Verizon to handle hardware failures and software failures. I don't send my checks to RIM. Not everyone out there is out to get big red. I just need something that works and if Verizon continues to draw lines in the sand I will find another carrier who will happily take my money. I came to Verizon from Sprint and think Verizon has the best coverage but their policies are something to be desired. Early ETF changes, strict hardware replacement issues are a couple of things that will lose them customers.

Are you that blindly ********?
The important parts I put in BOLD.

1. I am a business user
Everyone is a business user, whether they go to school or they have a business of their own or they work for someone. You still shouldn't depend on a cell phone for the better part of your business. That's actually bad. Any carrier you decide to go on will have issues - you really rely on your cell phone & not computer/landline for backup? Really?
2. I need my phone to work
Everyone wants a perfect device, in a perfect world where nothing goes wrong... It's a dream.
3. JVM Errors
**** happens.
4. Verizon's fault for hardware and software failures
This is where I call "********" posts. Seriously? So you're blaming the wireless carrier that there's hardware failures and software failures on a device? Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, VZW is a cell phone carrier - not a hardware/software developer. Please get some real logic in your posts, because #4 is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. I can't believe you'd blame VZW for hw/sw issues, when... it's NOT the wireless carriers fault, it's the manufactures fault.

And that's all I have to say.

[scandalousx]

Are you that blindly ********?
The important parts I put in BOLD.

1. I am a business user
Everyone is a business user, whether they go to school or they have a business of their own or they work for someone. You still shouldn't depend on a cell phone for the better part of your business. That's actually bad. Any carrier you decide to go on will have issues - you really rely on your cell phone & not computer/landline for backup? Really?
2. I need my phone to work
Everyone wants a perfect device, in a perfect world where nothing goes wrong... It's a dream.
3. JVM Errors
**** happens.
4. Verizon's fault for hardware and software failures
This is where I call "********" posts. Seriously? So you're blaming the wireless carrier that there's hardware failures and software failures on a device? Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, VZW is a cell phone carrier - not a hardware/software developer. Please get some real logic in your posts, because #4 is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. I can't believe you'd blame VZW for hw/sw issues, when... it's NOT the wireless carriers fault, it's the manufactures fault.

And that's all I have to say.

HAaha exactly! Good post.

[vladfan]

Are you that blindly ********?
The important parts I put in BOLD.

1. I am a business user
Everyone is a business user, whether they go to school or they have a business of their own or they work for someone. You still shouldn't depend on a cell phone for the better part of your business. That's actually bad. Any carrier you decide to go on will have issues - you really rely on your cell phone & not computer/landline for backup? Really?
2. I need my phone to work
Everyone wants a perfect device, in a perfect world where nothing goes wrong... It's a dream.
3. JVM Errors
**** happens.
4. Verizon's fault for hardware and software failures
This is where I call "********" posts. Seriously? So you're blaming the wireless carrier that there's hardware failures and software failures on a device? Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, VZW is a cell phone carrier - not a hardware/software developer. Please get some real logic in your posts, because #4 is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. I can't believe you'd blame VZW for hw/sw issues, when... it's NOT the wireless carriers fault, it's the manufactures fault.

And that's all I have to say.

Unbelievable!!! Typical CSR. It is never Verizons fault. Calling people ******** is something I would expect from a friggen 12 year old.

When I get a JVM error I should'nt hear a "**** happens". I should hear a "how can we solve your issues". Do I pay RIM every month or do I pay Verizon? I love how some of you CSR's just want to pass it on and not want to help. That's right I am just a dumba** customer. Has it ever occured that not everyone is trying to screw Verizon? Jeezus some of you guys are amazing.

[lahnipm]

I haven't read this whole thread, nor do I intend to, but just some food for thought for people complaining that VZW gets to wash their hands and not deal with defective devices:

Isn't there something to be said about the consumer trusting their service provider to provide them with a device that actually works? I mean after all, VZW does have a QA department that tests these devices before they brand them, no? If VZW is putting their stamp of approval on the device and we're purchasing it from them, I would expect them to be liable if anything went wrong. It's fair to assume the problem here is with devices that have chronic problems which says to me that VZW didn't do a very good job making sure that they were supporting a quality product.

As I see it, if they don't want to deal with being the point of contact when phones fail to work, they either need to stop selling phones and just be a service provider as people keep pointing out, drop a particular device that seems to have more problems than others (not idealistic because let's face it, all electronics have their flaws from time to time) or get a better QA department worth a damn.

[Zukin]

Unbelievable!!! Typical CSR. It is never Verizons fault. Calling people ******** is something I would expect from a friggen 12 year old.

When I get a JVM error I should'nt hear a "**** happens". I should hear a "how can we solve your issues". Do I pay RIM every month or do I pay Verizon? I love how some of you CSR's just want to pass it on and not want to help. That's right I am just a dumba** customer. Has it ever occured that not everyone is trying to screw Verizon? Jeezus some of you guys are amazing.

Do not put me in the CSR rep. I am speaking as a customer not under my job.
You're are blindly acting like a '**** in a bucket full of water.

JVM error is NOT A VERIZON WIRELESS CARRIERS ISSUE.
If you read: Smartphones, Cell Phones & Smart Phones at BlackBerry.com and their KB, its a DEVICE.MANUFACTURES.RIMS error. NOT VZW.

I solve everyone's issues when I am speaking to them on the phone. I tell them what actually has happened to get the JVM error, and I explain that there's really not much a user could do to avoid it. It's a corruption in the Java on the Operating System. The only thing that will really fix it is a OS reload.. via DTM or Loader.exe if DTM will not rec. your PIN.

Technically you are trying to screw VZW. You're demanding a new phone when things don't work.

I pretty much told you two things....

Verizon Wireless is your Cell Phone Company.
RIM is the manufacture.

If you are having Voice issues, you may be right in blaming VZW for that.
If you have defective devices (Hardware), outages out of data (If it's a blackberry), Software error codes, That's RIM's issues. Anything data related outages are not a VZW issue actually if you have a Blackberry device... because the Data "so to speak" is on RIM's servers... so if RIM's servers crash, go down etc, your data pretty much goes out...

Anyway, my point is, stop blaming the wireless cell phone carrier for fault that a developer of the HW/SW, which is the manufacture.. would be a fault.

PS: It's 8:15am where I'm at, and I haven't slept. If my spelling and grammar issues bother you, I'm sorry. I will edit it later.

[vladfan]

Don't bother because I am done with this thread. I will continue to use my Storm 1replacement that I just just got last Thursday. So far so good but that is how most of them are. I will weigh my options to see if I stay with VZW or go somewhere else. I ultimitaly will probably wait for a better phone to come out before I use my upgrade. I honestly love the cell service I get from VZW. I just don't like the other issues I have had with the phone they rep. Thanks for the insight from a CSR point of view. I am just a **** that has to get back to his bucket of water.

[Zukin]

Lol. You make me laugh, and I guess I'm glad you don't read posts, but only what you want to read.

I'm glad to know some customers want to think their wireless cell phone provider is at fault for a hardware and software issue. I just like to point out, I guess I'm wrong as the customer too to think.. for whatever reason that RIM is not at fault, and I'll just blame it on my carrier, because.. well... that's who everyone blames it on

[akiva7777]

Unbelievable!!! Typical CSR. It is never Verizons fault. Calling people ******** is something I would expect from a friggen 12 year old.

When I get a JVM error I should'nt hear a "**** happens". I should hear a "how can we solve your issues". Do I pay RIM every month or do I pay Verizon? I love how some of you CSR's just want to pass it on and not want to help. That's right I am just a dumba** customer. Has it ever occured that not everyone is trying to screw Verizon? Jeezus some of you guys are amazing.

If you were to call me..... a TECH agent, not csr (god save me from that fate, although i guess technically tech support falls under a csr geral heading.....but that is an argument for another time) and after finding out the issue, you wont here me ask how to fix the issue, you will hear me TELLyou how we are going to fix the issue. and to answer the question of who you pay.......you pay verizon for the service, and you paid verizon for the device, who turned around and gave the money to rim. It would be similar to you buying a car, and then turning around and selling it to someone else. now imagine if after you sold this car to someone, and a tire blew on it. would you exchange the tire? and if you couldnt would you give the person another car?

use your brain, my friend, and think of the flow of product. vzw did not make the device, or the program.we provide the service......you bought the device from us, but you could have just as easily bought the device from rim, and activated it on our service..... or craigs list, or ebay, or your neighbors yard sale...... if you bought it at a yard sale, would you go back to the previouse owner and demand a brand new one?

think.

the analogies keep rolling, and you could apply it to any service, or good purchased..........

as a buisness man im sure that you opperate in a verry similar fashion.......what do you do for a living?

[vladfan]

I am Director of Safety for electrical construction in L.A. So I don't sell or rep any products. I just use the phone to do my work and need it to reliable and to be able to use the features it comes with. I am on call 24/7 because I have 8,000 employees that can be working at any given time of the day. If there are safety issues or god forbid an accident then I am contacted at anytime of the day.

[lahnipm]

Lol. You make me laugh, and I guess I'm glad you don't read posts, but only what you want to read.

I'm glad to know some customers want to think their wireless cell phone provider is at fault for a hardware and software issue. I just like to point out, I guess I'm wrong as the customer too to think.. for whatever reason that RIM is not at fault, and I'll just blame it on my carrier, because.. well... that's who everyone blames it on

I love how you think VZW is not liable what so ever and didn't address the fact that if VZW's QA wasn't worthless, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[lahnipm]

It would be similar to you buying a car, and then turning around and selling it to someone else. now imagine if after you sold this car to someone, and a tire blew on it. would you exchange the tire? and if you couldnt would you give the person another car?

use your brain, my friend, and think of the flow of product. vzw did not make the device, or the program.we provide the service......you bought the device from us, but you could have just as easily bought the device from rim, and activated it on our service..... or craigs list, or ebay, or your neighbors yard sale...... if you bought it at a yard sale, would you go back to the previouse owner and demand a brand new one?

Since we're going the route of of analogies, let's say I buy a tire from a local retailer. The tire fails. They don't redirect me to the manufacturer. They take care of the problem by replacing it or providing a refund and they take care of it between themselves and the manufacturer about resolving how to deal with the defective tire.

This is really no different. If VZW is essentially being the medium of authorized retailer of the phone, they're obligated to replace defective phones. Why do they get special treatment any different than when I try to return defective electronics at any other electronic store?

[Super_Mario]

I love how you think VZW is not liable what so ever and didn't address the fact that if VZW's QA wasn't worthless, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

QA cannot predict issues with software such as issues with OS and JVM errors, but they do check for sound devices. It is unrealistic to expect that they can foresee every issue that an electronic device may have.

What you can expect, is VZW to help you to best of their ability, if it’s a network issue we can escalate it if needed. If it’s a device issue we can get you to the manufacturer or replace the device. But you cannot expect them to be able to assist on every aspect of the device such as hardware (they dot make the phone); software (which is proprietary); or user error (which is your fault).

So what I would expect from any carrier is to help me either fix the device or replace it, which VZW does. Because is everything was perfect, we wouldn’t even need a cell phone for business, because we wouldn’t need to work. Ahhhh to dream…

[i_hiker]

Frankly, I don't care if my replacement device (I only needed one and it is a refurb) is new or not...I just want it to look like new when I get it, and WORK. The device I returned was used and scratched by me, and the one I got as a refurb replacement had no scratches and worked. Made me a happy hiker.

As for those who want to draw the line between VZW and RIM let me say that the two companies have a symbiotic relationship. They need each other. RIM builds a device with a VZW specific OS to work on the VZW network and VZW approved apps. VZW has a network and requires RIM to build a device to their specifications within the RIM device capabilities. There is a small overlap here, but none the less, an overlap. We do not go to RIM to purchase the device, we go to VZW (or whoever) and we expect the device to work. If the answer to a certain situation like an OS problem arises, I don't want to hear "call RIM." VZW needs to provide a conduit for the solution...or patch us through to someone who can solve the issue. Don't give us partial customer service, train some techs to deal with these situation(s) and fix the problem(s). There is a difference between the "good customer service" that we get now and "great customer service" that I think we all want.

[IMP42]

I love how you think VZW is not liable what so ever and didn't address the fact that if VZW's QA wasn't worthless, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

VZW is not liable for defects with a device. VZW is not the manufacturer, all VZW does is provide you with service for the device you choose. Yes you buy that device from VZW but VZW gives that money to the manufacturer. You could cut out the middle man and buy your devices straight from LG, RIM, Palm, ect. for full retail price (usually $200-$300 more than VZW sells the phone for). The only thing VZW absolutely has to provide to you is coverage for the device, if that device is defective VZW has no liability to fix it. VZW does its best to provide customers with Tech support for the devices and replacements if need be. They don't have to provide tech support and they especially don't have to replace your phone for FREE. Read your contract and please tell me where it states that they will fix or replace your phone when it breaks.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[sorlipm]

Frankly, I don't care if my replacement device (I only needed one and it is a refurb) is new or not...I just want it to look like new when I get it, and WORK. The device I returned was used and scratched by me, and the one I got as a refurb replacement had no scratches and worked. Made me a happy hiker.

As for those who want to draw the line between VZW and RIM let me say that the two companies have a symbiotic relationship. They need each other. RIM builds a device with a VZW specific OS to work on the VZW network and VZW approved apps. VZW has a network and requires RIM to build a device to their specifications within the RIM device capabilities. There is a small overlap here, but none the less, an overlap. We do not go to RIM to purchase the device, we go to VZW (or whoever) and we expect the device to work. If the answer to a certain situation like an OS problem arises, I don't want to hear "call RIM." VZW needs to provide a conduit for the solution...or patch us through to someone who can solve the issue. Don't give us partial customer service, train some techs to deal with these situation(s) and fix the problem(s). There is a difference between the "good customer service" that we get now and "great customer service" that I think we all want.

We would help you get thru to RIM if we need to . but most reps are not trained in software installs. so that why you get wierd answers sometimes. just keep asking for another rep till you get one that can help you

[Zukin]

I love how you think VZW is not liable what so ever and didn't address the fact that if VZW's QA wasn't worthless, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Never meant for it to come out that way, but he's stating that the hardware and software is a cellular company's issue. Stating that VZW made the hardware and software, where that's a lie. VZW sells the product, just like any carrier. If he goes to any other carrier and demands another "new" device by not paying any type of fee and only wanting it for "free" and not under the manufacture's warranty..

Anyway, whatever floats his boat. I do a very good job at trying to fix issues for customers, but no way am I going to give a customer a brand new device because they demand so. Under your contract, if anything HAPPENS to the device you replace under the 1-year manufacture warranty, which we give to you for free. Other companies, say like computer companies are actually a bit more stricter, they will not only charge for the replacement but some will usually charge for the X amount of minutes you speak to the tech team.

What I'm trying to get at is that you're not "entitled" to a brand new phone anytime your phone dies. When the Multi-FRU was in place, it was a courtesy that VZW gave that was being abused. No matter if the properly customers were using it when they really need it, or not.. the abusers were coming to forums like these and stating "hey make a fake issue and complain X amount of times and you get a new phone" .. This is the exact reason why VZW canceled that feature.

If you think going to another company is going to give you the right and entitlement to get a new phone, you're dreaming... and I wish you luck.

[i_hiker]

[QUOTE=sorlipm;4563999]We would help you get thru to RIM if we need to . but most reps are not trained in software installs. so that why you get wierd answers sometimes. just keep asking for another rep till you get one that can help you[/QUOTE

Only software/firmware issue I have had occurred recently when I was pushed a new PRL and intermittent chirping popped up during phone conversations. I was using (unofficial) OS.169. Updated to new .175 via email from RIM. Still had chirp. Was first told .175 was not "official" and there was nothing they could do. I called back 10 days later when the OS did become official and they offered to send me a replacement device to fix the "chirp". Needlees to say, I still have my device as well as the chirp. The problem is not the phone.

[IMP42]

Only software/firmware issue I have had occurred recently when I was pushed a new PRL and intermittent chirping popped up during phone conversations. I was using (unofficial) OS.169. Updated to new .175 via email from RIM. Still had chirp. Was first told .175 was not "official" and there was nothing they could do. I called back 10 days later when the OS did become official and they offered to send me a replacement device to fix the "chirp". Needlees to say, I still have my device as well as the chirp. The problem is not the phone.

There is a setting (on some phones, I had it on the phone I had before my curve) that is called minute alert, or something to that effect, that will make your phone beep or "chirp" every few minutes durring a call. It is to help keep track of minutes used. Not saying that it is the problem but try that. It might be in screen\keyboard in your options menu (If you are using a BB, I can't see your profile in wap).

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[i_hiker]

There is a setting (on some phones, I had it on the phone I had before my curve) that is called minute alert, or something to that effect, that will make your phone beep or "chirp" every few minutes durring a call. It is to help keep track of minutes used. Not saying that it is the problem but try that. It might be in screen\keyboard in your options menu (If you are using a BB, I can't see your profile in wap).

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Thanks...not any type of "alert." It is random, usually does not occur on a short call and can not be heard on the other end.

[IMP42]

Eh it was worth a shot. It isn't in the screen/keyboard settings on BBs anyway, I was wrong. I know I have seen it though. Just future reference for anyone having that issue.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com