- There are sites out there to tell you how to get out of your ETF whenever you want. Anytime you get something from VZW saying they're changing this or that, contract breach, not what you signed for. Drop 'em. I haven't had to pay an ETF since I left shi**y Cingular years back. So unless you drop contracts often I don't see how this affects people too much..?11-05-09 05:35 AMLike 0
- There are sites out there to tell you how to get out of your ETF whenever you want. Anytime you get something from VZW saying they're changing this or that, contract breach, not what you signed for. Drop 'em. I haven't had to pay an ETF since I left shi**y Cingular years back. So unless you drop contracts often I don't see how this affects people too much..?
The sites you refer to are along the lines of Acorn/Community Organizer tactics - convince people they have problems they didn't know they had, then rile them up to demand change.
Nothing good ever comes from a scam, fabricating trouble or community organizers.11-05-09 07:14 AMLike 0 -
&what are you talking about you gave me the benefit of the doubt with my Obama avatar? Uh anyone with eyes can tell I'm a Nobama momma! Get your eyes checked please!
I dont live/sleep/eat anything. I work here, thats it. I was speaking realistically. The person i quoted only mentioned that he was crying about a new ETF policy, not that he was unhappy with the service or anything else. Therefore, his way of thinking was not a logical way to think.Last edited by thinkamp; 11-05-09 at 08:00 AM.
11-05-09 07:56 AMLike 0 -
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hmm seems like another one that breaths, eats and sleeps for vzw.11-05-09 10:34 AMLike 0 - Nahh. Just figured I'd be the obligatory naysayer.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com11-05-09 10:35 AMLike 0 - Darth just because I want to switch doesn't mean I haven't dropped calls with VZW the all mighty. Sadly I have dropped many many calls with vzw so...I'll take dropping calls as I already have to save some money...times are tough and some people as myself cannot pay $100+ a month for a phone on top of all my other bills. Paying my car is a little more important than dropping a couple phone calls a week. My phone won't get me from point A to point B.
hmm seems like another one that breaths, eats and sleeps for vzw.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com11-05-09 10:46 AMLike 0 - Haha I was already thinking about moving to sprint. I still have a little under a year with vzw...so I'm waiting it out to see if anything changes in the future.11-05-09 10:48 AMLike 0
- Thinkamp,
Look at my last post and don't be so quick to jump
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com11-05-09 10:54 AMLike 0 - I am a government attorney who prosecutes civil and criminal wrongdoing. The conduct you describe doesn't sound like a scheme to me. It sounds like some people have been aggressive in pursuing a capitalist opporunity that does not to my knowledge violate VZ's rules. If you mean "scheme" loosely, that's one matter. However, if you mean scheme as a term of art, I disagree with you.11-05-09 10:57 AMLike 0
- It falls under "theft." If you really were an attorney you'd realize that taking something without paying the whole amount for it is theft.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com11-05-09 11:00 AMLike 0 -
Please show me a staute that defines this bahavior as theft.
I promise I'm not a "know-it-all" pompous attorney. I'm open minded to your arguments, but I'm doubtful that this behavior violates a criminal or civil offense.11-05-09 11:05 AMLike 0 - IF the customer pays in full (full retail) they are not under contract. once they accept a subsidy then they owe VZW that amount, which is paid during contract.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com11-05-09 11:25 AMLike 0 - For the 93rd time it'll be NEW contracts as of 11/15
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com11-05-09 11:34 AMLike 0 -
If we were talking statutes, we'd be hearing of a prosecutorial path taken by the carriers. Instead, we are looking at a contractural discouragement.
Again, who said anything about criminal codes or statutes?11-05-09 11:44 AMLike 0 -
- I am a government attorney who prosecutes civil and criminal wrongdoing. The conduct you describe doesn't sound like a scheme to me. It sounds like some people have been aggressive in pursuing a capitalist opporunity that does not to my knowledge violate VZ's rules. If you mean "scheme" loosely, that's one matter. However, if you mean scheme as a term of art, I disagree with you.11-05-09 12:03 PMLike 0
- People who sue corporate entities for millions of dollars because of extremely minor injuries that happened on that entity's property (that in many cases were the result of their own stupidity) could also be called "aggressively pursuing a capitalist opportunity" as well. Doesn't make it right. These so called "capitalist opportunities" are what costs EVERYONE in the long run. Perhaps it will end when they stop letting criminals into law school. (No offense to any lawyers out there...I know better than to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.)
Just because you can do it, doesn't necessarily make it right to do it.
VZW is simply making it harder to rip them off.
Posted from a CrapBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com11-05-09 12:09 PMLike 0 - Let's make that assumption - pay full price for phone - now no contract is required. No contract means no ETF.
If we were talking statutes, we'd be hearing of a prosecutorial path taken by the carriers. Instead, we are looking at a contractural discouragement.
Again, who said anything about criminal codes or statutes?
2. My comment regarding criminal codes or statutes reflects my earlier comment regarding whether the OP uses the term "scheme" loosely or whether the OP uses "scheme" as a term of art. If used as a term of art, in my occupation, that involves criminal or civil violations of law.
3. If we are focusing only on contractual language, please point me to contract language that would characterize this behavior as a scheme rather than a mere breach of contract or behavior allowed under the contract with associated termination fees.11-05-09 12:31 PMLike 0 - Call it what you want. A scheme, a plan, a thought put into motion, etc. The word scheme may mean something different in a courtroom then it does on a football field but it is still someones scheme to make money. Obviously it was not criminal in terms of the law or VZW would have sued these people. However being that they could not they have changed their policy to stop people from making money on the loop hole they were exploiting.11-05-09 12:36 PMLike 0
- People who sue corporate entities for millions of dollars because of extremely minor injuries that happened on that entity's property (that in many cases were the result of their own stupidity) could also be called "aggressively pursuing a capitalist opportunity" as well. Doesn't make it right. These so called "capitalist opportunities" are what costs EVERYONE in the long run. Perhaps it will end when they stop letting criminals into law school. (No offense to any lawyers out there...I know better than to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.)
However, I am also sensitive to certain kinds of alleged wrongdoing being mislabeled or characterized. Bernie Madoff was guilty of a "scheme." There are many true schemes that are unlawful. My point is that I doubt that the behavior we're discussing arises to an unlawful scheme and I think it's worth pointing out the distinction between an unlawful scheme and the kind of scheme that people discuss loosely.
I don't take offense to your comments regarding letting criminals into law school. I realize that you're intelligent enought to know that criminal minded people are also members of the police, the medical profession, and the school systems, to name a short list.11-05-09 12:44 PMLike 0 - Call it what you want. A scheme, a plan, a thought put into motion, etc. The word scheme may mean something different in a courtroom then it does on a football field but it is still someones scheme to make money. Obviously it was not criminal in terms of the law or VZW would have sued these people. However being that they could not they have changed their policy to stop people from making money on the loop hole they were exploiting.11-05-09 12:47 PMLike 0
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