1. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    "Phone and SMS capabilities were NOT affected."

    No kidding... perhaps maybe because they don't have to go through your NOC to work...


    What have we learned from yet another outage?

    1) RIM needs to consider changing the way their topology works in terms of the handset needing NOC access to function for RIM based data services.

    2) If Option 1 is not possible, then RIM needs to separate/segregate out their NOC and server availability between BBM and BIS/BES functions. Keep the two separate so that if one fails the other system is up.


    If we are to believe the reason for the outage, then it's pretty obvious that something as simple as backlogged BBM requests on a grand scale could cause database servers to go down in flames. Well, buggy BBM requests anyway due to the wacked out code in the latest BBM versions RIM released anyway.


    I think the record is broken from being played so many times, but this is what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket.
    12-23-09 03:21 PM
  2. kazmi's Avatar
    Everything has a critical mass, I think RIM just reached theirs and didn't know it? Shocking for such a company but then, is this any surprise considering what's happening around us in the economic landscape? They are adding subscribers by the millions and yet their software and server workflow remains the same....I LOVE RIM, but reliability trumps loyalty any day.
    12-23-09 03:36 PM
  3. ComfortablyNumb's Avatar
    I don't know that I would call that positive spin. Haha. Phone and SMS capabilities weren't affected because RIM has nothing to do with them. There wasn't anything posititve about yesterday's outage.
    12-23-09 03:40 PM
  4. elvin1983's Avatar
    "Phone and SMS capabilities were NOT affected."

    No kidding... perhaps maybe because they don't have to go through your NOC to work...


    What have we learned from yet another outage?

    1) RIM needs to consider changing the way their topology works in terms of the handset needing NOC access to function for RIM based data services.

    2) If Option 1 is not possible, then RIM needs to separate/segregate out their NOC and server availability between BBM and BIS/BES functions. Keep the two separate so that if one fails the other system is up.


    If we are to believe the reason for the outage, then it's pretty obvious that something as simple as backlogged BBM requests on a grand scale could cause database servers to go down in flames. Well, buggy BBM requests anyway due to the wacked out code in the latest BBM versions RIM released anyway.


    I think the record is broken from being played so many times, but this is what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket.
    So, are you saying that there needs to be seperate severs, one for BIS e-mail, and one for BBM?? If that's the case, shouldn't they be able to start charging another fee for a BBM subscription on top of the BIS fee that we pay, which is all encompassing... just seems slightly inefficient, but I understand where you're coming from, especially after this last outage.

    I'm just saying, it's because of RIM's NOC servers that we have great services like actual PUSH e-mail, and BBM. There's a reason why BBM usually works as seemlessly as it does, because it's always on, you can't turn it off, it never just times out and logs you off, you're always going to be connected, same with the e-mail, and without the NOC servers, we wouldn't be able to use these services, at least the way that we already know and love, you know?
    12-23-09 03:51 PM
  5. ComfortablyNumb's Avatar
    I know. I totally agree with you on this one.
    12-23-09 04:04 PM
  6. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    If we are to believe the reason for the outage, then it's pretty obvious that something as simple as backlogged BBM requests on a grand scale could cause database servers to go down in flames.


    As soon as I saw that this morning I was like, yeah right. Like I told others, since I work in a datacenter we cover our arses all the time. What really happened and what we tell you are two totally different things. I wasn't buying that BBM was the reason for the outage one bit...
    12-23-09 04:14 PM
  7. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    So, are you saying that there needs to be seperate severs, one for BIS e-mail, and one for BBM?? If that's the case, shouldn't they be able to start charging another fee for a BBM subscription on top of the BIS fee that we pay, which is all encompassing... just seems slightly inefficient, but I understand where you're coming from, especially after this last outage.

    I'm just saying, it's because of RIM's NOC servers that we have great services like actual PUSH e-mail, and BBM. There's a reason why BBM usually works as seemlessly as it does, because it's always on, you can't turn it off, it never just times out and logs you off, you're always going to be connected, same with the e-mail, and without the NOC servers, we wouldn't be able to use these services, at least the way that we already know and love, you know?
    Yes and no. My main gripe is that the traversal of all this data is rooted deep within a database scenario rather then a simple traffic packet of data. RIM does a lot more with the traffic then just sifting it through their network for security reasons. Because of this, data backlogging and delays will inherently happen. In today's world, there's a lot more "Push Capable Email Solutions" out of the box then there were in the 90's (when RIM pioneered their topology). Perhaps the time has come for them to offshore a lot of their Push capabilities (for email anyway) to the end user. If I have a Push capable email server (Microsoft Exchange), why do I need to buy BES and deal with RIM outage headaches again? Oh, that's right... just because I want to use a Blackberry.

    Don't get me wrong, I like their stuff, but it's not all sunshine and happienss. BIS EMail push IS NOT instant when it comes to POP3 email accounts. There's a delay and usually one that's higher then what you can set on a Polling email client. A lot of other Smartphones on the market now also do full instant Push for GMail email services if needed, so the benefits of BB on those fronts is also nil. As each day passes, other technologies for wireless communications are coming about that are slowly overshadoing RIM's 90's based Push technologies. Apple is already doing Push and more will come with OS4 on the next iPhone. The nice benefit with that is that NOT ALL handset services are controlled by Apple themselves. Corporate email is ActiveSync Push capable, 3rd party email support is Poll capable with customizable polling times, etc.

    Bottom line... "Does RIM work...?" Yes, but I can't help but feel that everything I do on a BB is like being the 3rd person in a conversation and having to deal with a middleman to be able to talk to the other person. We don't need A-B-C anymore... we need A-C! We need change...
    12-23-09 04:16 PM
  8. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    As soon as I saw that this morning I was like, yeah right. Like I told others, since I work in a datacenter we cover our arses all the time. What really happened and what we tell you are two totally different things. I wasn't buying that BBM was the reason for the outage one bit...
    lol, what better way to get everyone on 5.0.0.57 BBM version (latest) to test for you. Especially since they're too lazy to bundle it within OS5... I think 5.0.0.419 is like the first version I've seen of OS5 with BBM5 bundled in it. lol

    Plus now they can come back next week and say that BBM5 was the largest and most popular download over the holiday weekend!!! Merry XMas everyone, from your dediated freinds at RIM!!! I think RIM looks more like a bunch of politicians and less like technology leaders every day that passes by.
    12-23-09 04:20 PM
  9. tony bag o donuts's Avatar
    I still think Kevin is to blame with all his BBM contacts last month
    12-23-09 04:22 PM
  10. John Yester's Avatar
    I still think Kevin is to blame with all his BBM contacts last month
    LOL Thing probably still has requests hitting it
    12-23-09 04:25 PM
  11. Branta's Avatar
    lol, what better way to get everyone on 5.0.0.57 BBM version (latest) to test for you. Especially since they're too lazy to bundle it within OS5... I think 5.0.0.419 is like the first version I've seen of OS5 with BBM5 bundled in it. lol

    Plus now they can come back next week and say that BBM5 was the largest and most popular download over the holiday weekend!!! Merry XMas everyone, from your dediated freinds at RIM!!! I think RIM looks more like a bunch of politicians and less like technology leaders every day that passes by.
    ROFL! I would be ashamed to release the current versions of BBM5 even as an early beta. The development team and responsible managers should be sacked without delay.
    12-23-09 04:30 PM
  12. Branta's Avatar
    BTW, does anyone have a valid email address to submit reports on this appalling piece of bugware?
    12-23-09 04:31 PM
  13. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    BTW, does anyone have a valid email address to submit reports on this appalling piece of bugware?
    bbsuggestions@rim.com comes to mind...
    12-23-09 04:39 PM
  14. ipodtouch1234's Avatar
    If BBM is causing these issues, that just pisses me off. They should charge a bbm fee. I don't use it because everyone I know just has unlimited sms and also doesn't have a clue to what bbm even is.
    12-23-09 04:48 PM
  15. davidnc's Avatar
    Yeah when RIM doesn't want to owe up to what caused it and tries to put the blame on BBM issue that makes me loss faith in them , a lil more each time ,and they haven't restore any of that confidence back and "boom" down their stuff went again worst for me this second time. But my faith in them will be used up if this happens many more times and they have no believable explanation then they did this time :/

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-23-09 04:57 PM
  16. Snarfler's Avatar
    I'd bet yesterday's outage is responsible for the new record number of 17,688 online users at CB last night
    12-23-09 05:12 PM
  17. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    lol, what better way to get everyone on 5.0.0.57 BBM version (latest) to test for you. Especially since they're too lazy to bundle it within OS5... I think 5.0.0.419 is like the first version I've seen of OS5 with BBM5 bundled in it. lol

    Plus now they can come back next week and say that BBM5 was the largest and most popular download over the holiday weekend!!! Merry XMas everyone, from your dediated freinds at RIM!!! I think RIM looks more like a bunch of politicians and less like technology leaders every day that passes by.
    Lmao! We are so on the same page...
    12-23-09 05:16 PM
  18. Guatiao's Avatar
    I think more than anything yesterday's outage should be a wake up call fro RIM, not only concerning BBM, but their whole smartphone strategy as well. Deal with weak points FIRST and FOREMOST, and pass over to customers quality stuff, be it OS, hardware, apps, etc.

    Apple, Google, Nokia, et al, surely are listening, watching... and already working...
    12-23-09 05:38 PM
  19. jlsparks's Avatar
    I agree with your premise, particularly (as I've argued many, many times), that RIM need to drop the curtains and become transparent with respect to outages. Not having a status.blackberry.com sub-domain, being fed real-time with worldwide system status is inexcusable. All the big players (except MSFT and Apple) have status pages. Example: arrived at the offices of a company I consult for @ 7am today. Found phone and internet service (cable) both down. A little T/S showed that it was a DNS issue (I could ping internally, ping/traceroute externals, and dig hostnames with full A/NS/SOA resolution. I implemented OpenDNS for them last year, and was able to access OpenDNS' status page by bookmarked IP to see if the problem was there. It wasn't but it took one variable out of the equation. SHOW US YOUR SYSTEM STATUS RIM!

    On the other hand, everyone spins. Heck, Sprint's lost almost a million lines in the past 12 months but read their 3Q2009 10-Q and they rave about how they're maintaining post-paid and credit quality. Spinage! Not excusing RIM by any means, just want to make sure we keep this honest and recognize that spin knows no geographical boundaries.
    12-23-09 06:05 PM
  20. Guatiao's Avatar
    Not a huuuuuge impact on RIM's stock, but there IS a small plunge on its price yesterday.

    RIMM Research in Motion Ltd. stock quote price shares XNAS – Morningstar
    12-23-09 06:15 PM
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