01-03-19 09:41 PM
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  1. scrannel's Avatar
    This is where IMS appears on the Z10...

    How to tell if on VoLTE-ims-shot.png
    12-03-14 01:30 AM
  2. modifier's Avatar
    That is not correct. 2G signals are limited to 35Km strictly due to timing issues. 2G is a TDMA technology. You need to be close to the tower to get your time slot.

    Don't fall into the fallacy that lower frequency means longer distance. For line of sight communications, VHF on up the propagation is frequently independent.
    But, we aren't talking about UHF/VHF or AM/FM here. Cellular is a different animal altogether. Generally speaking, it's the frequency that most determines signal distance, not the generation of technology. LTE at 1900MHz doesn't go any farther than 2G at the same frequency in the real world. If it does then I'd be very interested to see a definitive test performed and the actual results outside of any theoretical explanations. In other words... show me, don't tell me.

    .
    This is where IMS appears on the Z10...
    Is that while on an LTE call or just WFC? We're trying to find someone with IMS lit up while on an LTE call to show that VoLTE is working. IMS will show as connected for anyone on WFC. That's normal.

    [CB10 / Q10]
    12-03-14 05:30 AM
  3. gariac's Avatar
    But, we aren't talking about UHF/VHF or AM/FM here. Cellular is a different animal altogether. Generally speaking, it's the frequency that most determines signal distance, not the generation of technology. LTE at 1900MHz doesn't go any farther than 2G at the same frequency in the real world. If it does then I'd be very interested to see a definitive test performed and the actual results outside of any theoretical explanations. In other words... show me, don't tell me.

    .

    Is that while on an LTE call or just WFC? We're trying to find someone with IMS lit up while on an LTE call to show that VoLTE is working. IMS will show as connected for anyone on WFC. That's normal.

    [CB10 / Q10]
    RF is RF. There is nothing frequently selective in the medium, neglecting second order effects like rain fade on microwaves.

    The VHF on up comment is relevant since you need to get high enough in frequency where there are not atmospheric effects.

    I gather you didn't bother to research my 35km limit on 2g else you wouldn't be arguing your point any further. What I speak of is well known. Just do a little research. "Timing advance" issues are real life. I have been in many rural areas where the tower can be "heard" but not used due to distance.

    Australia has a different 2g standard to allow greater distance, but I never saw it used in the states.

    Further, if you do some research, you will find the antenna "aperture" is what gives lower frequencies a theoretical lower loss advantage, but aperture doesn't come into effect in the handset. At the cell site itself, you can use a multiple element design to increase the antenna aperture for higher frequencies. In an omnidirectional antenna, that would be done with a colinear design. For directional antennas, the panel has more elements in it.




    Posted via CB10
    12-03-14 12:25 PM
  4. modifier's Avatar
    I gather you didn't bother to research my 35km limit on 2g else you wouldn't be arguing your point any further.
    Show me a scientific study with physical proof that a 1900MHz cellular signal travels farther when broadcasting LTE versus 2G. I don't care about textbook radio theory. Show me proof that LTE travels farther on the same frequency and a cellular handset's range is increased as a result. That's what I want to see.

    Don't tell me. Show me.

    [CB10 / Q10]
    12-03-14 01:26 PM
  5. raino's Avatar
    This is where IMS appears on the Z10...
    Right. And then when you tap IMS Status, the first line will show IMS Status as 'Connected' when your WFC is on. The second line will show IMS Services, locked in to 'On' which stays that way regardless of whether WFC is active or not. It was suggested earlier in this thread that if toggle is unlocked, i.e. you can turn IMS Services on or off, that indicates voLTE. However that doesn't seem to be right.
    12-03-14 01:30 PM
  6. modifier's Avatar
    It was suggested earlier in this thread that if toggle is unlocked, i.e. you can turn IMS Services on or off, that indicates voLTE. However that doesn't seem to be right.
    Weren't you the one who suggested that? :P

    [CB10 / Q10]
    12-03-14 01:45 PM
  7. raino's Avatar
    Weren't you the one who suggested that? :P
    It wasn't me. It was wayyy earlier in the thread. Try the first page
    12-03-14 01:47 PM
  8. gariac's Avatar
    Show me a scientific study with physical proof that a 1900MHz cellular signal travels farther when broadcasting LTE versus 2G. I don't care about textbook radio theory. Show me proof that LTE travels farther on the same frequency and a cellular handset's range is increased as a result. That's what I want to see.

    Don't tell me. Show me.

    [CB10 / Q10]
    Have a nice day. I'm not here to help people who can't help themselves. But don't post your inaccurate information on the internet. There is simply too much crud on the web.

    Everything I have posted is quite accurate. Note I have a MSEE and am an active ham radio operator.


    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    12-03-14 02:31 PM
  9. modifier's Avatar
    It wasn't me. It was wayyy earlier in the thread. Try the first page
    Ahh, you're correct. I missed that completely.

    .
    Have a nice day. I'm not here to help people who can't help themselves. But don't post your inaccurate information on the internet. There is simply too much crud on the web.

    Everything I have posted is quite accurate. Note I have a MSEE and am an active ham radio operator.
    Don't be offended. I'm making an honest request here. You claimed that LTE can travel further through the air and I honestly want to see the tests to confirm your claims. Heck, even a test between 1700MHz HSPA+ versus 1700MHz LTE would be great to see since we have both in the US.

    If your claims are accurate and you have an MSEE then surely someone you know has performed such a test and can show the work on paper. I have yet to find an increase in real-world range with LTE so your claims are of interest to me and many of my colleagues.

    [Q10 / CB10]
    12-03-14 02:56 PM
  10. scrannel's Avatar

    .

    Is that while on an LTE call or just WFC? We're trying to find someone with IMS lit up while on an LTE call to show that VoLTE is working. IMS will show as connected for anyone on WFC. That's normal.

    [CB10 / Q10]
    I was responding to "eyesopen" who wanted to know where the notification appeared on the phone. Yes, of course, this is with WFC on.

    According to Tmo's site, no BBerry is supposed to be able to get VoLTE.
    Last edited by scrannel; 12-03-14 at 08:48 PM.
    12-03-14 07:22 PM
  11. modifier's Avatar
    I was responding to "eyesopen" who wanted to know where the notification appeared on the phone. Yes, of course, this is with WFC on.

    According to Tmo's site, no BBerry is supposed to be able to get VoLTE.
    Ahh, I thought you were on an LTE network at the time.

    VoLTE is in the OS so Tmo is blowing smoke since they no longer carry BB devices.

    [CB10 / Q10]
    12-04-14 05:24 PM
  12. raino's Avatar
    According to Tmo's site, no BBerry is supposed to be able to get VoLTE.
    Can you post this link, please? I want to see if they've worded this as the phones are simply incapable, or if the service hasn't been extended to phones.

    Or did they just leave BBs off of a voLTE phones list?
    12-04-14 05:28 PM
  13. gariac's Avatar
    Ahh, you're correct. I missed that completely.

    .

    Don't be offended. I'm making an honest request here. You claimed that LTE can travel further through the air and I honestly want to see the tests to confirm your claims. Heck, even a test between 1700MHz HSPA+ versus 1700MHz LTE would be great to see since we have both in the US.

    If your claims are accurate and you have an MSEE then surely someone you know has performed such a test and can show the work on paper. I have yet to find an increase in real-world range with LTE so your claims are of interest to me and many of my colleagues.

    [Q10 / CB10]
    You are really clueless. The nuances of each implementation is proprietary to the vendor. I would have to find THE person in T-Mobile to give me the set up of each tower. That won't be easy.

    The simple 2g network had few variations. In the US, they all had the 35KM timing. 3g on up are variants of CDMA. There is much more flexibility.

    Even with a degree in electrical engineering, with my MSEE concentrated in communications, I would have to acquire the 3GPP documents and spend at least a week to get the details regarding range limitations. This presumes I'm will to pay for the standards, which I'm not. Next time I'm at Terman, I will see if they have them in the reference section.

    The name of the game in cellular is channel reuse. It is unlikely any of the urban towers are set up for 100km LTE. They rather have you switch to a new tower in an urban areas in order not to bog down the data throughput.

    If you really want to pursue the limits of LTE, contact Wue in Lincoln County Nevada. They have a rural LTE network, though it is a Verizon partner.

    I found a Wue coverage map. I'm assuming the top circle is a wide coverage tower. You can probably do some leg work and figure out the distance.

    http://www.cellularmaps.com/wue_map.shtml




    Posted via CB10
    12-04-14 06:59 PM
  14. jhimmel's Avatar
    On Verizon with My Z30 does the following screen mean that I am actually in a VoLTE area? Or just that my phone is capable and it can be disabled...
    How to tell if on VoLTE-img_20141204_201713.png

    Posted via CB10
    raino likes this.
    12-04-14 07:25 PM
  15. raino's Avatar
    On Verizon with My Z30 does the following screen mean that I am actually in a VoLTE area? Or just that my phone is capable and it can be disabled...
    That's interesting. Isn't Verizon in the midst of rolling out their own voLTE?

    The best way to figure this out would be to make a call. If your screen says 4G LTE before the call, see if stays at that when you initiate the call. If it drops to 3G or CDMA or whatever, then you don't have voLTE.

    Of course, this would be worthwhile if you're in a confirmed Verizon voLTE test market. If not, the test is pretty much inconclusive.

    Also, can you change the position of those sliders?
    12-04-14 07:38 PM
  16. scrannel's Avatar
    Can you post this link, please? I want to see if they've worded this as the phones are simply incapable, or if the service hasn't been extended to phones.

    Or did they just leave BBs off of a voLTE phones list?
    The page on the Tmo site seems to have vanished. You've probably seen these: (It listed these phones and promised some "future" phones would have it. Yes, they only listed compatible phones. But the comment on "future phones" led me to believe the Z10/Q10 were out).

    https://support.t-mobile.com/communi...over-lte-volte

    https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-9907
    raino likes this.
    12-04-14 07:39 PM
  17. jhimmel's Avatar
    That's interesting. Isn't Verizon in the midst of rolling out their own voLTE?

    The best way to figure this out would be to make a call. If your screen says 4G LTE before the call, see if stays at that when you initiate the call. If it drops to 3G or CDMA or whatever, then you don't have voLTE.

    Of course, this would be worthwhile if you're in a confirmed Verizon voLTE test market. If not, the test is pretty much inconclusive.

    Also, can you change the position of those sliders?
    Yes, Verizon is rolling out VoLTE. One of the markets is NYC, and I am just outside of that area. Yes, I can turn it off and on.

    To try your test, would the person I'm calling also need to be on VoLTE?

    Edit: Okay, tried it and it remained as "4GLTE" throughout the call.

    Posted via CB10
    raino likes this.
    12-04-14 07:45 PM
  18. raino's Avatar
    Yes, Verizon is rolling out VoLTE. One of the markets is NYC, and I am just outside of that area. Yes, I can turn it off and on.
    The thing with Verizon voLTE is that both parties on the call need to be on voLTE for it to work. And since the initial announcement, I haven't seen anything about other phones they may have brought the service to. Short of trotting out to NYC, maybe you could check if the opt-in mentioned in the article is available to you?

    Dan Seifert of The Verge (Verge URL) was probably the first one to report NYC as a test market. He wasn't specific enough about where in NYC he tested it, plus it sounds like he was given a test unit, rather than him latching on to an open network. Maybe that's changed now--maybe anyone can make use of the service.
    12-04-14 08:06 PM
  19. raino's Avatar
    Edit: Okay, tried it and it remained as "4GLTE" throughout the call.
    Did you call someone in a confirmed voLTE market? If Verizon provides an online call log, is there any confirmation of a voLTE call? (just trying to cross the Ts and dot the Is...)

    If everything checks out, you, sir, may be the first regular person to have made a voLTE call with a BB10 phone
    12-04-14 09:20 PM
  20. jhimmel's Avatar
    Called my wife sitting next to me. I'll try again and see if I can browse the Internet while in a call. Isn't that a clue?

    She is on an LG G3, which is one of the first few phones Verizon enabled for VoLTE.

    Edit: Well, with WiFi off, I am definitely able to browse the Internet while in a call with my wife. Didn't think that worked over CDMA.

    Posted via CB10
    12-04-14 09:36 PM
  21. raino's Avatar
    Called my wife sitting next to me. I'll try again and see if I can browse the Internet while in a call. Isn't that a clue?

    She is on an LG G3, which is one of the first few phones Verizon enabled for VoLTE.

    Edit: Well, with WiFi off, I am definitely able to browse the Internet while in a call with my wife. Didn't think that worked over CDMA.
    Right. LTE data while on a CDMA call was implemented a while ago. I remember it was a knock against the iPhone when contemporary Android phones could do it, but the iPhone couldn't.

    But if you can call and surf on LTE, yes that would absolutely confirm voLTE. You could also turn that slider under IMS Setting off, but I wouldn't recommend it.

    How was the call quality?
    12-04-14 10:14 PM
  22. jhimmel's Avatar
    Couldn't tell you about the call quality, we weren't really talking - she had no idea why I kept calling her, and I didn't explain...lol.
    It's late now, will play with it more another time, and maybe even let her know what I'm trying to test. :-)

    Posted via CB10
    12-04-14 10:27 PM
  23. raino's Avatar
    Couldn't tell you about the call quality, we weren't really talking - she had no idea why I kept calling her, and I didn't explain...lol.
    It's late now, will play with it more another time, and maybe even let her know what I'm trying to test. :-)
    Please keep us updated. Or maybe start a new thread in the Verizon and/or BB10 forum? Also, if you have a Z10 or Q10, please test those, if you can.
    12-04-14 10:47 PM
  24. gariac's Avatar


    This is a video from some guy claiming he is getting VoLTE calls. It isn't very informative. He is getting HD voice, which also works over 4G.

    I did a Google search on VoLTE test numbers with no luck.

    Posted via CB10
    12-05-14 01:46 PM
  25. raino's Avatar
    Here is a screenshot of a Samsung phone with TMO voLTE: Screen Shot 2014-06-02 at 21.09.12 TmoNews

    HD voice, unlike voLTE, requires both parties to be in HD calling markets.
    12-05-14 02:21 PM
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