[itsthemusic]

How is that a scheme? i did it because ATT service has been that bad!

Yeah, but your are still responsible for service that they provide to you. If your car breaks down 1 month, are you not going to make your car payment? Horrible advice.

[jlsparks]

Ohh really? do you know anything? Educated Consumer? You don't know me so please spare me your BS. It's not my fault that i had ATT for over 2 years and their service degraded to crap.

Oh and it doesnt take much for a lawyer to show up in small claims court? really? Do you know how much a lawyers time is worth? or how much they charge companies like vzw or att? Try $300-$500 an hour! big companies rather would not fight it. They settle very easily. You can expect never to step foot in court after you file your suit. 99% of the time you get a call from them and they settle.

I don't think I've ever read more inane "advice" than yours. I'm actually embarrassed to be replying to you, though you should be the embarrassed party. A few quick points:

1. You signed a contract. In so signing you committed to abide by the terms of that contract which, for whatever term, required you to pay your bill in full, each month, on time. Additionally, that contract, and the summary T&C, outlined the monetary effect your canceling your contract early would create. In your words "about $700".

2. Your sole "argument" in support of your scam, sham, unethical breach of contract is that "their service sucks balls." That one will go over well in court. Absent verifiable, demonstrative *proof* that AT&T didn't provide you the service you contracted them to provide you fail.
a. You claim their service sucks balls. However here's what you agreed to when you signed the contract:

There are gaps in service within the service areas shown on coverage maps, which, by their nature, are only approximations of actual coverage. WE DO NOT GUARANTEE YOU UNINTERRUPTED SERVICE OR COVERAGE. WE CANNOT ASSURE YOU THAT IF YOU PLACE A 911 CALL YOU WILL BE FOUND. Airtime and other service charges apply to all calls, including involuntarily terminated calls. AT&T MAKES NO WARRANTY, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, SUITABILITY, OR PERFORMANCE REGARDING ANY SERVICES OR GOODS, AND IN NO EVENT SHALL AT&T BE LIABLE, WHETHER OR NOT DUE TO ITS OWN NEGLIGENCE, for any: (a) act or omission of a third party; (b) mistakes, omissions, interruptions, errors, failures to transmit, delays, or defects in the service provided by or through us; (c) damage or injury caused by the use of service or Device, including use in a vehicle; (d) claims against you by third parties; (e) damage or injury caused by a suspension or termination of service by AT&T; or (f) damage or injury caused by failure or delay in connecting a call to 911 or any other emergency service. Notwithstanding the foregoing, if your service is interrupted for 24 or more continuous hours by a cause within our control, we will issue you, upon request, a credit equal to a pro-rata adjustment of the monthly service fee for the time period your service was unavailable, not to exceed the monthly service fee. Our liability to you for service failures is limited solely to the credit set forth above. Unless applicable law precludes parties from contracting to so limit liability, and provided such law does not discriminate against arbitration clauses, AT&T shall not be liable for any indirect, special, punitive, incidental or consequential losses or damages you or any third party may suffer by use of, or inability to use, service or Equipment provided by or through AT&T, including loss of business or goodwill, revenue or profits, or claims of personal injuries.

b. Further:

CHARGES AND DISPUTES
You are responsible for paying all charges for or resulting from services provided under this Agreement. You will receive monthly bills that are due in full as shown thereon. YOU MUST, WITHIN 100 DAYS OF THE DATE OF THE BILL, NOTIFY US IN WRITING AT AT&T, BILL DISPUTE, 1025 LENOX PARK., ATLANTA, GA 30319 ("AT&T'S ADDRESS") OF ANY DISPUTE YOU HAVE WITH RESPECT TO THE BILL, INCLUDING ANY CHARGES ON THE BILL AND ANY SERVICE WE PROVIDED FOR WHICH YOU WERE BILLED, OR YOU WILL HAVE WAIVED YOUR RIGHT TO DISPUTE THE BILL OR SUCH SERVICES AND TO BRING, OR PARTICIPATE IN, ANY LEGAL ACTION RAISING ANY SUCH DISPUTE.

. If you had a problem you had recourse. You failed to take it in accordance with your contract.
c. Lastly:

CANCELLATION PERIOD / TERMINATION
You may terminate this Agreement within thirty (30) days after activating service without paying an Early Termination Fee. You will pay for service fees and charges incurred through the termination date, but AT&T will refund your activation fee, if any, if you terminate within three (3) days of activating the service.

. You had 30 days to enjoy the use of your devices and determine if AT&T was the right network for you. By not availing yourself of the 30 day "out", you pretty much admit that the service was acceptable.

You may work at a VZW store, but, yet again, you fail in your processing of this matter. Specifically:

ARBITRATION AGREEMENT
(1) AT&T and you agree to arbitrate all disputes and claims between us. This agreement to arbitrate is intended to be broadly interpreted. It includes, but is not limited to:

claims arising out of or relating to any aspect of the relationship between us, whether based in contract, tort, statute, fraud, misrepresentation or any other legal theory;
claims that arose before this or any prior Agreement (including, but not limited to, claims relating to advertising);
claims that are currently the subject of purported class action litigation in which you are not a member of a certified class; and
claims that may arise after the termination of this Agreement.

You agreed to binding arbitration, champ. You owe AT&T about $1,100. Have the collections calls started yet? Notices in the mail? If you want to evade your legitimate debt that's your business, but don't spew utter nonsense on here, please.

[gotblackberry]

Ohh really? do you know anything? Educated Consumer? You don't know me so please spare me your BS. It's not my fault that i had ATT for over 2 years and their service degraded to crap.

Oh and it doesnt take much for a lawyer to show up in small claims court? really? Do you know how much a lawyers time is worth? or how much they charge companies like vzw or att? Try $300-$500 an hour! big companies rather would not fight it. They settle very easily. You can expect never to step foot in court after you file your suit. 99% of the time you get a call from them and they settle.

You do realize Verizons attorneys are on salary right? Their favorite thing to do is go to court because responding to FCC inquiries gets boring.

[OldChristine]

Hey guys first lemme just state i dont encourage anyone doing what i am doing but this is what i did to get out of ATT. it has been proven time and time again.

1. Switched to verizon from att. (ATT service sucks balls).
2. canceled all 5 of my lines with ATT (had a bill for about $700ish termination fees).
3. Did not pay my last bill of around $400.
4. So here i am i owe them $1100. Well i refuse to pay for **** service and termination fees that i should not be paying b.c i wanted to leave them because of their horrible service.
5. Document ALL of your crappy service. I documented all 5 phones for my family plan about their horrible service. Failed calls/dropped calls, Horrible service; etc. Iphone makes this pretty easy.
6. File a suit in small claims court for your bill + termination fees.
7. Wait.
8. Now Att (or any carrier for that fact) does not want to pay their lawyers $XXX/hour to deal with this/ go to court. They will either waive your fees or atleast cut them by a lot most of the time.
9. If they don't settle go to court and prove that their service was hindered to the point that you were not receiving what you were previously paying for.

This has worked for numerous people i know with various carriers (Verizon, ATT, Tmobile, nextel). Btw i work at a verizon store.

My boss did this exact thing with Sprint about 2 mos ago! Worked in her favor! Don't listen to the haters...they are miserable people.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[gotblackberry]

I think people accusing people of being miserable when they don't even know them is pretty pathetic.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[jlsparks]

My boss did this exact thing with Sprint about 2 mos ago! Worked in her favor! Don't listen to the haters...they are miserable people.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

We all pay when people like your boss evade their financial responsibilities. Who do you think absorbed the costs incurred in her little scam? Sprint's remaining customers, that's who. You know by now that businesses pass on costs to customers, right?

[OldChristine]

I think people accusing people of being miserable when they don't even know them is pretty pathetic.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I think people that are so heated over things that aren't their business either have no life or have a miserable one. You can't control what other people do or what their opinions are. Most people that see an opportunity to make money do so. Most people that get horrible service will do something to avoid paying for said horrible service. Get over it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[gotblackberry]

I think people that are so heated over things that aren't their business either have no life or have a miserable one. You can't control what other people do or what their opinions are. Most people that see an opportunity to make money do so. Most people that get horrible service will do something to avoid paying for said horrible service. Get over it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Except you can't really argue its "none of their business" when people post it on a public forum, now can you? Come on think hard.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[OldChristine]

Except you can't really argue its "none of their business" when people post it on a public forum, now can you? Come on think hard.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

It isn't enough of their business to put so much effort into the subject. People will do what they want. You people don't matter enough for anyone to care that you dissapprove.

I personally just get a kick out of bantering back and forth lol
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[silenttt123]

Still? You are still going around talking badly of everyone? Wow...

I think you are the one that is miserable and has no life....

I mean come on, you are always on here finding a way to promote this sort of behavior...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[gotblackberry]

It isn't enough of their business to put so much effort into the subject. People will do what they want. You people don't matter enough for anyone to care that you dissapprove.

I personally just get a kick out of bantering back and forth lol
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

It's not up to you to decide what is "enough" effort on a public forum, and you act like people care what you think. Know your place.

[Ubique]

We all pay when people like your boss evade their financial responsibilities. Who do you think absorbed the costs incurred in her little scam? Sprint's remaining customers, that's who. You know by now that businesses pass on costs to customers, right?

She didn't see it as dishonest to scam Bunky for his iPhone, or multi-fru a hot Tour to Storm2 and sell it immediately. We can't expect much better from a thief now.

[jlsparks]

It wasn't a scam, she had legitimate reasons, hence why she won. Get a life dude.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

The fact that she may have avoided paying legitimate charges doesn't mean she had legitimate reasons. You stated that your boss did "the exact same thing" as what the prior poster suggested. That is, don't pay, file a suit in small claims court, wait for them not to show up, get summary judgment. Therefore: avoid your financial responsibility. How exactly is that not a scam again? Dude?

[OldChristine]

She didn't see it as dishonest to scam Bunky for his iPhone, or multi-fru a hot Tour to Storm2 and sell it immediately. We can't expect much better from a thief now.

What???! I've never had an IPhone *gag* or a "hot Tour" whatever that is.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[OldChristine]

The fact that she may have avoided paying legitimate charges doesn't mean she had legitimate reasons. You stated that your boss did "the exact same thing" as what the prior poster suggested. That is, don't pay, file a suit in small claims court, wait for them not to show up, get summary judgment. Therefore: avoid your financial responsibility. How exactly is that not a scam again? Dude?

Its not a scam of you feel the charges are for services that were no where near good. A person has the right to take It to court! Obviously the judge also saw things her way.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[s.hasan546]

I don't think I've ever read more inane "advice" than yours. I'm actually embarrassed to be replying to you, though you should be the embarrassed party. A few quick points:

1. You signed a contract. In so signing you committed to abide by the terms of that contract which, for whatever term, required you to pay your bill in full, each month, on time. Additionally, that contract, and the summary T&C, outlined the monetary effect your canceling your contract early would create. In your words "about $700".

2. Your sole "argument" in support of your scam, sham, unethical breach of contract is that "their service sucks balls." That one will go over well in court. Absent verifiable, demonstrative *proof* that AT&T didn't provide you the service you contracted them to provide you fail.
a. You claim their service sucks balls. However here's what you agreed to when you signed the contract:

b. Further: . If you had a problem you had recourse. You failed to take it in accordance with your contract.
c. Lastly: . You had 30 days to enjoy the use of your devices and determine if AT&T was the right network for you. By not availing yourself of the 30 day "out", you pretty much admit that the service was acceptable.

You may work at a VZW store, but, yet again, you fail in your processing of this matter. Specifically:

You agreed to binding arbitration, champ. You owe AT&T about $1,100. Have the collections calls started yet? Notices in the mail? If you want to evade your legitimate debt that's your business, but don't spew utter nonsense on here, please.

ok first of all you have no idea what your talking about. Just because you sign a contract does not mean that their terms are legitimate. You do realize Contracts are VOID when the terms are not legitimate. Just b.c they make you sign a contract stating they aren't at fault ever does not mean that is allowed. thats a bunch of BULL****.

2. ok i might have been a little rude but my "sole argument" is that ATT service degraded to a point where i could not use my phone at all. Calls were going to voicemail with no notifications, calls always failed; etc.

b. LIKE I SAID the SERVICE DEGRADED! When i first got them over 2 years ago they were great. Now they are horrible. It is well documented for the NY area so please spare me your bull****.

Its not a legitimate debt. It is ETF's that should be paid. And i GUARANTEE i will not have to pay a dime.

BTW BINDING Arbitration is NOT allowed! You are NOT bound to arbitration. If you knew anything about contracts; etc you would know that this is not allowed in the case of cellular service. Go talk to all the class action lawsuits against sprint; etc. It has already been ruled that your are not bound to arbitration against a cellular company and that you may take them to court.

[s.hasan546]

You do realize Verizons attorneys are on salary right? Their favorite thing to do is go to court because responding to FCC inquiries gets boring.

You do realize that even if their salaried they still have way more **** to do. And they have to pay for flight and room n board to your local small claims court. You think all this **** doesnt add up. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THEY SETTLE. AND even if they go to court and you DOCUMENTED your lack of service; etc than you will WIN.

[s.hasan546]

We all pay when people like your boss evade their financial responsibilities. Who do you think absorbed the costs incurred in her little scam? Sprint's remaining customers, that's who. You know by now that businesses pass on costs to customers, right?

this isn't a freakign scam. I think you guys are missing my point. I didnt tell OP that he should do this. I only stated that this should be done when the service of a company's degrades that bad. Forexample, ATT's service in NY. It went from great to ****. i should not be paying for service that doesnt work plain and simple. IF the OP's service got worse and worse to the point of not being able to use it than he should ahve to pay ETFs. Your telling me that if you had great service for 1 year of your contract and than it become horrible, that you should continue paying $300+ a month for your family? well if thats what you would do than i feel bad for you. Like they say " theres a sucker born every day"

And Scam? The Real Scam here is services like ATT who think they can relax and not upgrade their network and let their network get overwhelmed and service in a HUGE market like NY become so bad that you can't even recieve calls.

[gotblackberry]

ok first of all you have no idea what your talking about. Just because you sign a contract does not mean that their terms are legitimate. You do realize Contracts are VOID when the terms are not legitimate. Just b.c they make you sign a contract stating they aren't at fault ever does not mean that is allowed. thats a bunch of BULL****.

2. ok i might have been a little rude but my "sole argument" is that ATT service degraded to a point where i could not use my phone at all. Calls were going to voicemail with no notifications, calls always failed; etc.

b. LIKE I SAID the SERVICE DEGRADED! When i first got them over 2 years ago they were great. Now they are horrible. It is well documented for the NY area so please spare me your bull****.

Its not a legitimate debt. It is ETF's that should be paid. And i GUARANTEE i will not have to pay a dime.

BTW BINDING Arbitration is NOT allowed! You are NOT bound to arbitration. If you knew anything about contracts; etc you would know that this is not allowed in the case of cellular service. Go talk to all the class action lawsuits against sprint; etc. It has already been ruled that your are not bound to arbitration against a cellular company and that you may take them to court.

I'm going to ignore most of your rambling, but do you have any sources that state that binding arbitration is illegal in cell phone contracts, or do you just make that up?

You do realize that even if their salaried they still have way more **** to do. And they have to pay for flight and room n board to your local small claims court. You think all this **** doesnt add up. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THEY SETTLE. AND even if they go to court and you DOCUMENTED your lack of service; etc than you will WIN.

What do they have to do? If you knew anything, like you say you do, attorneys are not allowed in small claims court. So what does the company do? They generally send a district manager or store manager to court to defend the fees. I've honestly heard of people going to small claims, and they lost. I've never heard of a victory -- could you provide one? If you want to provide your case # and court, I will look it up to prove you're telling the truth.

[s.hasan546]

I'm going to ignore most of your rambling, but do you have any sources that state that binding arbitration is illegal in cell phone contracts, or do you just make that up?



What do they have to do? If you knew anything, like you say you do, attorneys are not allowed in small claims court. So what does the company do? They generally send a district manager or store manager to court to defend the fees. I've honestly heard of people going to small claims, and they lost. I've never heard of a victory -- could you provide one? If you want to provide your case # and court, I will look it up to prove you're telling the truth.

Its varies from state to state about binding arbitration. Some states will allow it some won't. California allows customers to go to small claims or class action against wireless companies. They did it against sprint i believe. You don't have to believe me you can look it up. And class action you might be forced to arbitration, however, in small claims most of the time its not cost effective for the company to take it to that. Companies have to pay their half for arbitration remember? And even if you get sent to arbitration thats not a bad thing. If you have a valid case you will come out ahead. Just b.c their contract says the give no guarantees on service doesnt mean if their service degrades that badly that you have to stay with them and pay etfs.

And no i dont have a Case # b.c like i said i myself have never done it. I have meet many people that have but im sorry that i didn't ask them for their case #; etc. Talk to a local lawyer he'll find them for you. Anyways i dont need approval from you guys i was just letting the OP know that this does work and its been proven before. Google is your friend. And most of these types of cases get settled. You never see the settlement.

Oh and attorneys are allowed in small claims court. It just depends on the state. It Varies.

[gotblackberry]

So you basically have no evidence to back up your claims, you want other poeple to do your digging for you, and just trust what you know to be right.

Got it.

[s.hasan546]

So you basically have no evidence to back up your claims, you want other poeple to do your digging for you, and just trust what you know to be right.

Got it.

Have you shown any evidence to the contrary? Nope. You said "you've heard that it doesnt work", and "Ive heard it does work". So lets just disagree and let it be that. You continue doing what your doing and ill continue my way. No big deal. No everyone has to be a "straight edge" like yourself. **** this is the internet. However, when i do succeed ill be sure to post. But like i said ive never done it before. This is my first time. If it works great, If not hey w.e ill pay the etf. My experiences will be slightly different since a close friend is a lawyer and he's doing everything for me (for free). (NY allows attorneys at small claims court). 3

[gotblackberry]

Have you shown any evidence to the contrary? Nope. You said "you've heard that it doesnt work", and "Ive heard it does work". So lets just disagree and let it be that. You continue doing what your doing and ill continue my way. No big deal. No everyone has to be a "straight edge" like yourself. **** this is the internet. However, when i do succeed ill be sure to post. But like i said ive never done it before. This is my first time. If it works great, If not hey w.e ill pay the etf. My experiences will be slightly different since a close friend is a lawyer and he's doing everything for me (for free). (NY allows attorneys at small claims court). 3

Okay, what state do you live in? You've brought up CA and New york.

California Courts: Self-Help Center: Small Claims: Small Claims Basics

Can I bring a lawyer?
No, a lawyer can't represent you in court. But you can talk to a lawyer before or after court.

I can't find anything about BMA being illegal in california either.

[s.hasan546]

Okay, what state do you live in? You've brought up CA and New york.

California Courts: Self-Help Center: Small Claims: Small Claims Basics



I can't find anything about BMA being illegal in california either.

I thought we dropped this? i really don't care anymore.

Ill humor you for this last post.


A Guide to Small Claims Court
"If you choose, you may be represented by an attorney at your own expense, but it is not necessary to have an attorney since Small Claims Court is meant to be a "people's court" where claims may be tried speedily, informally, and inexpensively"

All the info ive seen on BMA is not that they are illegal. But their are precedents that state big cellular companies like vzw, sprint; etc. Can be taken to class action because for everyone to go to arbitration would be expensive and frivolous. However, this doesn't work in every state. Ive seen some states mandate it back to arbitration. With Small Claims you can use this ruling also. However, it is totally dependent on the judge. However, it doesn't get to this stage most of the time since it's just not financially responsible for the carriers. Lawyers or even representatives time is not worth it. Many times they don't send managers from any normal store. THey send company representatives. Now room/board, travel; etc costs a lot. Companies don't want to do that. And normally if you have a lawyer represent you than the other side gets a attorney. No district manager wants to argue against a lawyer in court

Oh and one last thing my claim has been filed and i haven't heard of any issue with being sent back to arbitration. I doubt it will go that far b.c they don't want to A. Pay for arbitration (1/2 of it). B. Send a rep. or lawyer.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Its varies from state to state about binding arbitration. Some states will allow it some won't. California allows customers to go to small claims or class action against wireless companies. They did it against sprint i believe. You don't have to believe me you can look it up. And class action you might be forced to arbitration, however, in small claims most of the time its not cost effective for the company to take it to that. Companies have to pay their half for arbitration remember? And even if you get sent to arbitration thats not a bad thing. If you have a valid case you will come out ahead. Just b.c their contract says the give no guarantees on service doesnt mean if their service degrades that badly that you have to stay with them and pay etfs.

Just so you know (which you obviously don't), Verizon will let you out of a contract with NO etf if you have little to no signal in the area near your billing address. They send out a tech to test the signal and IF they find that you don't get good reception they let you out of your contract.