1. gariac's Avatar
    They dropped the 3G and now LTE is a full 20MHz. My local tower isn't on and the speed test won't even run thanks to network issues.

    I assume this will be fixed eventually.

    Posted via CB10
    03-16-16 10:12 AM
  2. lui22's Avatar
    what company?
    03-16-16 02:07 PM
  3. gariac's Avatar
    TMobile. Didn't I post on the Tmo thread?

    As it turns out, reddit claims the Bay Area had been 20MHz for three months, so maybe this is a band 12 deal.


    Posted via CB10
    03-16-16 10:54 PM
  4. gariac's Avatar
    03-17-16 09:49 AM
  5. raino's Avatar
    What do you mean by "they dropped the 3G?" All PCS/AWS has been refarmed to LTE?
    03-20-16 07:16 PM
  6. gariac's Avatar
    What do you mean by "they dropped the 3G?" All PCS/AWS has been refarmed to LTE?
    Well I see no 3G service. Just 4G LTE, 4G, and EDGE. The extra 5MHz had to come from somewhere.


    Posted via CB10
    03-21-16 02:30 PM
  7. raino's Avatar
    Well I see no 3G service. Just 4G LTE, 4G, and EDGE. The extra 5MHz had to come from somewhere.
    Gotcha. Yeah...it's most likely band 12. The latest sighting on reddit was around Alameda. Makes sense too, as that's what TMO's holdings for band 12 generally are (5 MHz.)

    I don't think you're going to see just '3G' much. That was all AWS (PCS launched as HSPA+, which TMO calls 4G) and the Bay Area is--or at least was--one of the better HSPA+ markets for TMO.
    03-21-16 02:40 PM
  8. gariac's Avatar
    Gotcha. Yeah...it's most likely band 12. The latest sighting on reddit was around Alameda. Makes sense too, as that's what TMO's holdings for band 12 generally are (5 MHz.)

    I don't think you're going to see just '3G' much. That was all AWS (PCS launched as HSPA+, which TMO calls 4G) and the Bay Area is--or at least was--one of the better HSPA+ markets for TMO.

    20th LTE SF Bay Area and network issues.-img_20160321_123444.png

    This is a manual scan I did today.


    Posted via CB10
    03-21-16 04:03 PM
  9. joecool1029's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is a manual scan I did today.


    Posted via CB10
    Wow lame. I leave my 2G turned off where possible because if my calls fall back to it my data connections get paused. I wish they'd nuke the old 2G and go hspa+ with it for fallback.

    Only a few places just outside of the NYC market have the no HSPA situation and it suckkkkksss!!!

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    03-21-16 05:20 PM
  10. raino's Avatar
    This is a manual scan I did today.
    Interesting. What happens when you try to make a call? Does the phone drop down to 2G or 4G?

    Wow lame. I leave my 2G turned off where possible because if my calls fall back to it my data connections get paused. I wish they'd nuke the old 2G and go hspa+ with it for fallback.
    That would be great, but I don't think they plan to do any more GSM-UMTS upgrades. It's LTE or bust. Which means it might be a while until your 2G actually gets refarmed
    03-21-16 08:38 PM
  11. gariac's Avatar
    Interesting. What happens when you try to make a call? Does the phone drop down to 2G or 4G?



    That would be great, but I don't think they plan to do any more GSM-UMTS upgrades. It's LTE or bust. Which means it might be a while until your 2G actually gets refarmed
    The weird thing is the phone does downgrade to 4G during a call, even though the manual scan would indicate that possibility doesn't exist.

    I think I posted here that when in the Mojave, actually a bit east of the town of Mojave, my phone when from LTE to EDGE when I made a phone call.

    The trouble is the Tmo network is so dynamic that any analysis you make is not relevant six months later.

    I have this dream that I'm going to drive I-5 from the bay area to LA and I will have LTE for the entire trip. Well some day. Right now, parts of the trip have no coverage at all.

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-16 02:03 AM
  12. joecool1029's Avatar
    If it downgrades to 4G then it has HSPA there. I'd need to check spectrum allocations but if they were sitting pretty on a ton in AWS they probably just moved dc-hspa to hspa and broadened the LTE bw.

    If they didn't have great AWS there, they probably turned off AWS HSPA and left it on PCS (which is preferable anyway since more band 2 HSPA devices were made than band 4)

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    raino likes this.
    03-22-16 08:02 AM
  13. gariac's Avatar
    20th LTE SF Bay Area and network issues.-img_20160322_064346.png

    Now the plain 4g is back.

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-16 08:46 AM
  14. raino's Avatar
    Now the plain 4g is back.
    If you try setting Network Mode to 4G/3G & 2G, you'd get an idea of how stable the remnant UMTS network is, as your phone would be forced to park on sub-LTE networks.
    03-22-16 11:25 AM
  15. gariac's Avatar
    If you try setting Network Mode to 4G/3G & 2G, you'd get an idea of how stable the remnant UMTS network is, as your phone would be forced to park on sub-LTE networks.
    Well yeah, but then I wouldn't be using LTE. ;-)

    I get your point, but I'd probably have to flog the 4G service to prove anything.

    My fear is Tmo goes 100% VoLTE and I can't use my phone thanks to the bodily orifices at Tmo that won't let me use VoLTE

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-16 03:07 PM
  16. joecool1029's Avatar

    My fear is Tmo goes 100% VoLTE and I can't use my phone thanks to the bodily orifices at Tmo that won't let me use VoLTE
    Same concern. If this was fixed I wouldn't care about fallback.

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    03-22-16 11:59 PM
  17. raino's Avatar
    Same concern. If this was fixed I wouldn't care about fallback.
    When they initiated the UMTS 1700 shutdowns, TMO offered to upgrade customers' UMTS 1700-only phones for free. I don't remember the exact conditions, but the Classic was an option for BB users. Point is, maybe they'll do the same for non-voLTE phone owners when it comes to going all-voLTE?

    Of course, the way they have voLTE set up right now is quite BYOD-unfriendly: for most phones, you gotta have the TMO version (branded or unlocked) of the phone. Even Verizon (!) has somewhat relaxed this requirement.
    03-23-16 08:59 PM
  18. joecool1029's Avatar
    When they initiated the UMTS 1700 shutdowns, TMO offered to upgrade customers' UMTS 1700-only phones for free. I don't remember the exact conditions, but the Classic was an option for BB users. Point is, maybe they'll do the same for non-voLTE phone owners when it comes to going all-voLTE?

    Of course, the way they have voLTE set up right now is quite BYOD-unfriendly: for most phones, you gotta have the TMO version (branded or unlocked) of the phone. Even Verizon (!) has somewhat relaxed this requirement.
    The classic work on voLTE? I thought it was just HD voice.

    But I agree, though from what I recall any carrier iPhone will work on their voLTE if it has the band support. I am hoping the carrier file is updated in 10.3.3 for voLTE, not super hopeful but it would be nice considering they advertised to BYOD the passport and classic.

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    03-24-16 12:37 AM
  19. gariac's Avatar
    The classic work on voLTE? I thought it was just HD voice.

    But I agree, though from what I recall any carrier iPhone will work on their voLTE if it has the band support. I am hoping the carrier file is updated in 10.3.3 for voLTE, not super hopeful but it would be nice considering they advertised to BYOD the passport and classic.

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    Apple has clout. They can, to quote Picard, make it so. Everybody else can...never mind..the Crackberry censor will get me.

    Our Z10s were Tmo branded, yet they still won't whitelist them. Time again for me to email John.

    We don't need new phones. We need our phones to be on the whitelist.

    Posted via CB10
    raino likes this.
    03-24-16 01:46 AM
  20. raino's Avatar
    The classic work on voLTE? I thought it was just HD voice.
    Oh, no. I meant that it was an option made available for BBOS users who were going to be affected by the UMTS 1700. Since TMO's BBs were all UMTS 900/1700/2100, there would be no UMTS 1900 for these people to fall back on, and TMO was logically presenting the Classic as the upgrade pathway. Sorry I wasn't clear.

    Our Z10s were Tmo branded, yet they still won't whitelist them. Time again for me to email John.

    We don't need new phones. We need our phones to be on the whitelist.
    Call him out. Tell him to explain why BB10 is good enough for WFC, but not voLTE (both children of IMS.) Ask him why Apple phones are given preferential treatments, such as iOS updates automatically being whitelisted for WFC, voLTE, etc. (we know the real reason; it would be interesting to hear his squirmy corporate-speak on it.)
    03-24-16 12:24 PM
  21. Omnitech's Avatar
    Tell him to explain why BB10 is good enough for WFC, but not voLTE (both children of IMS.)
    One of my biggest issues with my VZW Z10s is lousy voice quality - they must be using a 1kbps codec or something. Really astoundingly bad.

    I also have a droid on Tmo now, and the voice quality is vastly better. Since the device is not supposed to support VoLTE, at the most I assume it is using an "HD Voice" codec.

    So for me, that pretty much solves my main audio-quality issue with my previous devices.

    Re: VoLTE, on Verizon it's a big deal for iPhoners, because Apple won't make a phone that enables more than one cell radio at a time.. so no VoLTE, no simultaneous voice/data either. (That would be a complete showstopper for me)

    Given the issues with VoLTE calls possibly getting dropped if you pass into a 3G or 2G area during a call, and given that I don't have the simultaneous voice/data issue that VZW iPhoners have, what other reasons would I want VoLTE on T-mo, if the audio quality is fine now?
    04-18-16 10:58 PM
  22. raino's Avatar
    Given the issues with VoLTE calls possibly getting dropped if you pass into a 3G or 2G area during a call, and given that I don't have the simultaneous voice/data issue that VZW iPhoners have, what other reasons would I want VoLTE on T-mo, if the audio quality is fine now?
    As a technology in itself, it isn't as reliable as circuit switched calling. But...it's a feature to have. I could have just as easily have said free in-fight texting.

    TMO has in the past used the voLTE excuse to essentially keep band 12 out of phones by arguing that if band 12 is present in a phone but it isn't approved for voLTE, then a customer in a band 12-only market would not be able to call 911 and TMO would get dinged for an E911 violation. Except Verizon allows CDMA-lacking, band 13-lacking phones on their voLTE network. Shouldn't they be just as concerned about E911 violations as TMO?

    I don't quite remember the timeline on the Passport, but the Classic was definitely out by the time band 12 was a big deal on TMO. Even though the "bridge was broken" then, can we definitively say that TMO did not ask BB to forego equipping the NA model of the Classic (and maybe the Passport) with band 12 without submitting for TMO's voLTE "testing?"
    04-20-16 08:24 PM
  23. joecool1029's Avatar
    As a technology in itself, it isn't as reliable as circuit switched calling. But...it's a feature to have. I could have just as easily have said free in-fight texting.

    TMO has in the past used the voLTE excuse to essentially keep band 12 out of phones by arguing that if band 12 is present in a phone but it isn't approved for voLTE, then a customer in a band 12-only market would not be able to call 911 and TMO would get dinged for an E911 violation. Except Verizon allows CDMA-lacking, band 13-lacking phones on their voLTE network. Shouldn't they be just as concerned about E911 violations as TMO?

    I don't quite remember the timeline on the Passport, but the Classic was definitely out by the time band 12 was a big deal on TMO. Even though the "bridge was broken" then, can we definitively say that TMO did not ask BB to forego equipping the NA model of the Classic (and maybe the Passport) with band 12 without submitting for TMO's voLTE "testing?"
    I just threw my gf's iphone 5S from verizon on my tmo account. No voLTE. This isn't a question of testing, it's a question of them only IMEI whitelisting what they sell.

    VoLTE offers quite a few appealing features, from better codec selection, to more efficient use of the network, to faster connect times. And it does all this without having to pause data or step back to an earlier generation to connect the call. Highly useful when tethering.

    Regarding Verizon's voLTE policy: why dont they activate the passport? Never worked when I tried her old SIM.

    Posted via CB10 on me red Blackberry Passport
    04-21-16 09:18 AM
  24. raino's Avatar
    I just threw my gf's iphone 5S from verizon on my tmo account. No voLTE. This isn't a question of testing, it's a question of them only IMEI whitelisting what they sell.
    I don't think the 5s was ever green lit for/capable of voLTE--not even the one TMO sold.

    Regarding Verizon's voLTE policy: why dont they activate the passport? Never worked when I tried her old SIM.
    I think they allow the shopBB NA Priv because the Priv was going to be a phone they decided to carry (albeit a different model from the one sold unlocked,) and because they have plans of going all-LTE with their new device lineup by EOY. OTOH, since they never carried the Passport, so once they decided to not carry it, it might have completely gone off their radar.

    As you may know, Verizon has that band 13 "Open Network" thing hanging on their head. So maybe if someone was/is ready to go to war with Verizon Legal citing Network...Openness, the Passport could be allowed on the network? In what capacity, I don't know. How broad is the Openness requirement--are they required to just allow the device on the 700 MHz network, or extend all technologies being used on that network, like voLTE?

    While BB10 has the hooks for voLTE (IMS,) I'm not sure if BB would even be willing to set anything up for Verizon at this point (too much work/money or to keep Verizon happy.)
    04-21-16 08:25 PM
  25. Omnitech's Avatar
    TMO has in the past used the voLTE excuse to essentially keep band 12 out of phones by arguing that if band 12 is present in a phone but it isn't approved for voLTE, then a customer in a band 12-only market would not be able to call 911 and TMO would get dinged for an E911 violation. Except Verizon allows CDMA-lacking, band 13-lacking phones on their voLTE network. Shouldn't they be just as concerned about E911 violations as TMO?

    I would think that the issue would be a much lesser issue for Verizon, which has the most extensive coverage in the US. But I don't know how many VZW towers are band-13 only. (I would guess that such areas are likely to be rural. Where coverage in general cannot be assumed, so I think this would mask the liabilities since it's a fact of life in such places that your phone will probably be out of coverage for a significant part of every day anyway.)


    VoLTE offers quite a few appealing features, from better codec selection, to more efficient use of the network, to faster connect times. And it does all this without having to pause data or step back to an earlier generation to connect the call. Highly useful when tethering.

    Thanks for the bullet-points.

    When you say "useful when tethering" - I assume you mean taking a call when you are tethering another device to the phone? That's one area where dual-concurrent-radio devices (eg everything but iPhone) running on Sprint/Verizon would seem to have an advantage: they're already running dual radios, so it makes no diff to the data link what sort of voice call is active.
    04-21-16 11:26 PM
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