[MasterOfBinary]

Windows Phone doesn't excite many after two years, BlackBerry should solidify 3rd place | ZDNet

According to ZDnet, Windows Phone didn't excite and BlackBerry should solidify 3rd place on the market, maybe even catching up to iOS.

[A7omic]

Larry Dignan just posted the IDC report capturing smartphone market share for 2012 and I wanted to chime in with a few thoughts. As you can see in the results, Android continued to roll, iOS remained flat and successful, BlackBerry dropped significantly, and Windows Phone had a small 1 percent jump.

Larry asked about the chances for BlackBerry and Microsoft to garner momentum. BlackBerry basically took the year off in 2012 so it was no surprise to see them lose almost 5 percent of the market share; but they still remain in third place. With the release of BlackBerry 10 and solid Z10 and Q10 hardware, I believe we will see a BlackBerry come back in 2013.

BlackBerry has a compelling enterprise story to tell with their BES 10 support and BlackBerry Balance; if they can get government agencies and large corporations to continue using BlackBerry while bringing in new customers, they even have the potential to surpass iOS in a couple of years.

They also have a compelling consumer story with a fresh UI and features that make BYOD the best it has ever been on a BlackBerry. iOS went from 0 percent to 15 percent rather rapidly. As I hear more and more people say they are bored with iOS, there is an opportunity for someone to come in and fire up the market again.

One the other hand, while Windows Phone 8 is an updated platform, it is not a new platform -- and looks nearly the same as Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has been selling Windows Phone 7 devices for over two years now and it is still not grabbing the attention of consumers or the enterprise. Windows Phone relies on Nokia for the limited share they have. Even though I am a fan of Windows Phone, I don't think they ever will move ahead of BlackBerry into that third spot.

[VeGiTo]

Instead of only bashing authors when they write something negative, I suggest Crackberrians should leave positive comments on the article to encourage the author!!

[RubberChicken76]

Windows Phone doesn't excite many after two years, BlackBerry should solidify 3rd place | ZDNet

According to ZDnet, Windows Phone didn't excite and BlackBerry should solidify 3rd place on the market, maybe even catching up to iOS.

Don't know if I believe they'll catch up to iOS any time in the next few years (if ever) but I can see the third spot going either way ... to Microsoft if they keep investing untold billions to make it a success (ala XBox) or to BlackBerry if they spur on mass upgraders and returners and quickly become quite a bit bigger than Windows Phone

[chrysaurora]

Don't know if I believe they'll catch up to iOS any time in the next few years (if ever) but I can see the third spot going either way ... to Microsoft if they keep investing untold billions to make it a success (ala XBox) or to BlackBerry if they spur on mass upgraders and returners and quickly become quite a bit bigger than Windows Phone

BlackBerry 10 OS (and Z10 device) is phenomenal. Most former users of BlackBerry still 'miss' the amazing email, universal inbox ('hub') and security experience of BlackBerry. Where BlackBerry got lost was with it's sub-par browser, slower UI (thanks to legacy Java based OS) and apps.

1. BlackBerry has taken care of browser. It's at-par (if not better) than any rival.
2. UI is super fast and fluid. Even on slower hardware than some Android phones, it runs circles around Android devices.
3. Apps - it's not quite there yet but it has bridged the gap significantly. Only matter of months now, not years, before this app-gap becomes irrelevant as well.

Now, that gives BlackBerry full parity with rivals. What differentiates it though (so that people will pick it over rivals)?
1. It's an unmatched productivity tool. Stuff like Hub are to be experienced. Hard to explain on paper. Once you experience Hub (or universal inbox of older BB devices), you can't imagine a phone without it. It seems natural and basic.
2. Brand loyalty - CrackBerry community is testament to how BlackBerry still has loyalists.

That said, BlackBerry just needs to do 2 things or redouble their efforts on these two things (in my opinion) :
1. They need to proactively get end-user feedback (eg: they can get lot of feedback by just reading reviews from early adopters, haters, and CrackBerry forum postings) and respond to this feedback at lightening fast speeds! If users are reporting issues or bugs, send a OS patch/update, fix them in few weeks cycles (not few months) . If users are requesting features or enhancements, send top-few (say top 3) enhancements every few weeks (instead of few months). This will make their customers happy. And a happy customer is basically a free brand ambassador! Word of Mouth!

2. Market, market and market Demo unique features (like Hub, TimeShift, Balance etc) but also demo obvious features (like excellent browser because BlackBerry has a bad reputation for bad browser. Now that the browser is finally awesome, demo it. Counter outdated perceptions about bad browser).

I think if BlackBerry just concentrated on those two items for now, it'd easily catch-up to iOS in terms of market share. Stock will take care of itself too. Key is to listen to your end-users and prioritize feedback. Deliver incremental OS updates for bug fixes and enhancements (based on end-user feedback) in short cycles (say, every 3-4 weeks instead of every 2-3 months). Make your existing customers happy and watch your sales multiplying.

[bbmme]

wow, I love it! but those are bold statement eh. Only the future can tell

[darkehawke]

the only issue i have with Blackberry is their ability to react to feedback and the market shifts.
it doesnt seem great, but it is not fair to judge until they have a chance to show what they can do

[Buju Banton]

reading some of the comments on that article is a good representation of BlackBerry's main problem: people are so misinformed and they don't do well enough to stop that

i.e. comments about ADMINS DON'T WANT BES and one using claiming that BES is no longer required since BB10 uses ActiveSync.

[Bbnivende]

Can BB catch up with Apple ? Yes they can if they can beat Apple in markets where Apple is not strong. China for example . Not sure BB has a good China strategy but If they did.... there are a lot of emerging markets that Apple is not fully engaged. Apple is supposed to be coming up with a cheap phone strategy so I would not be betting against them.

I totally agree with Chrysaurora that BB has to be a better company. In addition to what he suggests I would add that they have to make phones that are reliable and have good support when they are not. I have not have issues with my BB phone but to read some of the posts regarding their products ... I am amazed that they would even consider buying a Blackberry. Touch wood, I have not had problems with my Apple products. Just about everyone I know owns an Iphone and the Iphone 3 was not that great but those that have Iphone 4's have not reported to me that they have had any hardware problems. They will be coming off contract still intact and working well. More anecdotal .. My children who have workphone BB's had to have them replaced this year with BB9900's because their not very old phones basically gave up the ghost. BB's used to have a good reputation but warranted or not I do not think that is true now. I suppose work phones do not get the same care as your own phone too.

I am glad that the Q10 has a better battery but to hear tell the BB9900 has some reliability issues still. I trust the Q10 will have resolved the hardware issues . Software issues OK but hardware issues not OK. On the Z10 camera and battery ... they should be upgrading those ASAP. Is it good enough just to be "good enough" ? When you get a new phone you want the hardware to work out of the box for three years - that should be the goal. To have a working phone at the end of your contract .

[Thunderbuck]

What's that Yogi Berra line? "Predictions are tricky... especially about the future..."

Honestly, we don't know. Analysts don't know. Nobody knows. There are certain data points that we can use and try to project, but they're far from reliable.

I'm long on RIM BB stock. I've believed all along that they were fundamentally a good technology company that had just drifted off into the weeds, and that there were people there who knew how to fix it. Now, I do have my own opinions about how BB10 stacks up to WP, and I do believe that if BB keeps executing the way it has in the past year or so that it stands to gain back a lot of market share. I believe that the Z10 is a nice device and that BB10 has features that will attract at least SOME buyers, but I'm not going to go out on a limb and try to pronounce that BB is going to catch up to Apple anytime soon.

[RubberChicken76]

I still say the same thing: never, ever, ever under-estimate Microsoft. It is one of the stupidest things Apple, Google or BlackBerry can do. Even when the underdog, Microsoft is not a company to be glossed over or casually dismissed as a competitor.

I don't think they have a clear path to victory by any stretch but anyone who simply ignores them is asking for trouble ...

[darkehawke]

I still say the same thing: never, ever, ever under-estimate Microsoft. It is one of the stupidest things Apple, Google or BlackBerry can do. Even when the underdog, Microsoft is not a company to be glossed over or casually dismissed as a competitor.

I don't think they have a clear path to victory by any stretch but anyone who simply ignores them is asking for trouble ...

This.
You simply do not turn your back on a company that has as much resources as Microsoft

[Thunderbuck]

I still say the same thing: never, ever, ever under-estimate Microsoft. It is one of the stupidest things Apple, Google or BlackBerry can do. Even when the underdog, Microsoft is not a company to be glossed over or casually dismissed as a competitor.

I don't think they have a clear path to victory by any stretch but anyone who simply ignores them is asking for trouble ...

Mobile just seems to be an eternal stumbling block for Microsoft. They couldn't beat Palm in the PDA race, and they can't seem to field a winner against iOS or Android now. Microsoft is a great company but in their own way they're drifting off the way BB did. I actually admire what they're trying to do with Windows 8, but consumers don't seem to agree with me, and the conclusion I'm coming to is that they're trying to stretch Metro too far and make it do things it wasn't really intended to do. And people aren't enjoying the experience.

I bring up Windows 8 because I think it's going to have a direct affect on WP (assuming it hasn't already). I've spoken to many, many users who have developed a palpable hatred of "those !#@$% tiles". I think that hatred of the look of Win 8 spills over to the look of WP, too.

[RubberChicken76]

It's definitely a stumbling block, but it's also one area of business that if I were to bet Microsoft will put untold billions into for a long time, it's this one. Microsoft has many business units, but ultimately Windows and Office are the profit engines and foundations of the company. One of those two engines is under serious threat on two fronts ... people spending more time on Mobile Devices than on computers; and iPads becoming replacements for laptops running Windows. Add in the halo effect that an iPad in a corporation can ultimately bring (iPhones and Macs), and Microsoft now has the biggest threat to Windows that it has had in many years.

If Windows itself suddenly does a noticeable decline, Microsoft itself takes a major body blow. They have a vested interest in getting Windows Phones and Windows tablets into the market and adopted. They showed with XBox, they're willing to lose billions over the course of years to hang in there and make something ultimately succeed.

[sf49ers]

Mobile just seems to be an eternal stumbling block for Microsoft. They couldn't beat Palm in the PDA race, and they can't seem to field a winner against iOS or Android now. Microsoft is a great company but in their own way they're drifting off the way BB did. I actually admire what they're trying to do with Windows 8, but consumers don't seem to agree with me, and the conclusion I'm coming to is that they're trying to stretch Metro too far and make it do things it wasn't really intended to do. And people aren't enjoying the experience.

I bring up Windows 8 because I think it's going to have a direct affect on WP (assuming it hasn't already). I've spoken to many, many users who have developed a palpable hatred of "those !#@$% tiles". I think that hatred of the look of Win 8 spills over to the look of WP, too.

there things I like about windows 8 but some like dual persona(desktop and metro) is confusing and annoying , and I find myself most of the time using desktop mode than the metro persona and that defeats the whole purpose of windows 8. I wish they had gone with windows 8 metro for touch models and windows classic for desktop/laptops like Apple having separate OS for tablets and laptops

[sf49ers]

It's definitely a stumbling block, but it's also one area of business that if I were to bet Microsoft will put untold billions into for a long time, it's this one. Microsoft has many business units, but ultimately Windows and Office are the profit engines and foundations of the company. One of those two engines is under serious threat on two fronts ... people spending more time on Mobile Devices than on computers; and iPads becoming replacements for laptops running Windows. Add in the halo effect that an iPad in a corporation can ultimately bring (iPhones and Macs), and Microsoft now has the biggest threat to Windows that it has had in many years.

If Windows itself suddenly does a noticeable decline, Microsoft itself takes a major body blow. They have a vested interest in getting Windows Phones and Windows tablets into the market and adopted. They showed with XBox, they're willing to lose billions over the course of years to hang in there and make something ultimately succeed.

Moeny can do only so much..in this cut throat competition of the mobile era what they need to be is to be more agile and nimble than boasting cash balance. Need proof..HP, Dell, Yahoo had money but they were not agile to move fast.

[cgk]

Can BB catch up with Apple ? Yes they can if they can beat Apple in markets where Apple is not strong. China for example . Not sure BB has a good China strategy but If they did.... there are a lot of emerging markets that Apple is not fully engaged. Apple is supposed to be coming up with a cheap phone strategy so I would not be betting against them.

Eh?

Apple Inc. (AAPL) more than doubled its iPhone sales points in China, which helped boost revenue 67 percent in the world�s largest market for handsets.
Outlets in China selling the iPhone rose to 17,000 in the period that ended Dec. 29, from 7,000 a year earlier, Apple Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook said on a conference call yesterday. That helped Apple boost sales in the Greater China region to $6.83 billion, from $4.08 billion a year earlier, the company said in statement yesterday that marked the first time it formally broke out China data in its earnings release.

Apple China Revenue Jumps 67% as Sales Outlets Double - Bloomberg

Apple expects China to overtake the US as its biggest sales market, the company's chief executive has told China's state news agency.

"China is currently our second-largest market, I believe it will become our first," Tim Cook told the Xinhua News Agency.

BBC News - Apple expects Chinese sales 'to overtake US'

[Emu the Foo]

This is great. I'm loving reading it and loving how positive its getting. Although I do want blackberry (obviously) to get 3rd or 2nd or 1st. But I also do want WP to stay around. We need competition, its healthy and creates innovation (unless you are apple).

Anyways excellent thread OP. This gif is for you.

[Bbnivende]

Eh?



Apple China Revenue Jumps 67% as Sales Outlets Double - Bloomberg



BBC News - Apple expects Chinese sales 'to overtake US'

Eh ?

The China Smartphone Brand That's Beating Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) - Money Morning

Just before the introduction of the Iphone 5 Apple was in 6th spot in the Chinese market

So China is now the biggest smartphone market in the world ... . but regardless I don't think Apple will go very far based on high end devices. More profit per phone yes but not sales dominance. It would be fantastic if BB could sell their phones in Lenovo stores along with a licensing deal.

[MasterOfBinary]

I still say the same thing: never, ever, ever under-estimate Microsoft. It is one of the stupidest things Apple, Google or BlackBerry can do. Even when the underdog, Microsoft is not a company to be glossed over or casually dismissed as a competitor.

I don't think they have a clear path to victory by any stretch but anyone who simply ignores them is asking for trouble ...

I said something like this once and got flamed for it. But the thing is, they have resources, developers, a solid platform (including Xbox, etc.) and everything they need to succeed. But right now the market king of says "meh" about everything MS.

I have no idea what will happen in the future - obviously some platforms will fail (my guess is Firefox and Sailfish will but who knows). There's loads of competition already and more coming out - and every phone company out there will have to innovate to stay relevant.

[MasterOfBinary]

there things I like about windows 8 but some like dual persona(desktop and metro) is confusing and annoying , and I find myself most of the time using desktop mode than the metro persona and that defeats the whole purpose of windows 8. I wish they had gone with windows 8 metro for touch models and windows classic for desktop/laptops like Apple having separate OS for tablets and laptops

But it paves the way for a time when every laptop has a touch screen, which could happen pretty soon if Intel has their way. And I'm sure they will with all the money they can throw around at manufacturers.

[BergerKing]

Mobile just seems to be an eternal stumbling block for Microsoft. They couldn't beat Palm in the PDA race, and they can't seem to field a winner against iOS or Android now. Microsoft is a great company but in their own way they're drifting off the way BB did. I actually admire what they're trying to do with Windows 8, but consumers don't seem to agree with me, and the conclusion I'm coming to is that they're trying to stretch Metro too far and make it do things it wasn't really intended to do. And people aren't enjoying the experience.

I bring up Windows 8 because I think it's going to have a direct affect on WP (assuming it hasn't already). I've spoken to many, many users who have developed a palpable hatred of "those !#@$% tiles". I think that hatred of the look of Win 8 spills over to the look of WP, too.

↑↑↑This. I've heard soooo many comments about how the UI is ugly, hideous, and even unattractive. I think my carrier has invested in one WP handset, the HTC Arrive, (that I know of) and although the folks who got it liked it, it sold like ice to Inuits. A gain of 1% is by no means a rousing success. Can it change? Let's wait to see how the US launch of BB 10 goes, first.

[mikeycollins13]

I notice all smart phones and I've almost never seen a Lumia around, or W7 phone other than in a shop. Its weird, kind of like steve Balmer is running around and buying them all at night or something?

[Thunderbuck]

I notice all smart phones and I've almost never seen a Lumia around, or W7 phone other than in a shop. Its weird, kind of like steve Balmer is running around and buying them all at night or something?

OMG... I can actually see that in my head...

[randall2580]

I wonder if you all of you realize the perspective on this. Apple sold about 125 million phones in the last fiscal year (Oct 2011/Sept2012). BlackBerry hasn't been able to maintain stock for the countries already launched and I am not trying to disparage apparent good sales what I am trying to do is compare and contrast the production abilities of the 2 companies. In fact, BlackBerry last year pared it's production capacity in a cost cutting move. I have no idea what BB's production capacity is right now, but it's not half that AAPL number.

Now certainly BB can start to develop partnerships as demand increases but my understanding for why Apple does business with FoxCon is that there are few facilities in the world that can compare with their beginning to end ability to source, stock, produce and ship product. It will be very difficult to compete with this. Samsung has this ability. I don't think there is another company in the world capable to compete with this kind of production ability.

And finally I understand you don't want to sell Microsoft short because of their resources, Microsoft has about $60 billion cash on hand while Apple has more than double that at $127 billion. Apple makes a very large part of their cash from the mobile space and I know they look down right now, but if you consider what RIM was able to do with a comparative no cash and a need for a complete rebuild of the systems, the need to identify and purchase mind power to quickly (relatively) produce a whole new OS, what do you think 127 billion could do?

RIM will come up and AAPL can come down, and though it appears their momentum is slowing the difference between the two is not just a few more sales, it's the ability to get the phones to the market and market them.

I wouldn't be so quick to sell AAPL short just yet, and that is no bash of BB, my point is that although BB has done a whole lot of good work to get where they are today, it's still another long way to go before they get enough momentum that AAPL is going to see them in the rear view mirror.