[marksthespot60]

$200.

The Z3 price point wouldn't be considered low/mid tier, even in the US. How is it supposed to be branded and bought in the developing markets? Who is even the customer that would buy this?

Where the competition is, is a factor. So, maybe, if there are equal or superior phones at a higher price, the $200 BlackBerry price point would make sense. Though, I'm pretty sure that REAL entry-level phones are probably in the free-99 dollar range. Those are the phones that the feature-phone people convert to. With a $200 price point, you're really going after the people who already have a smartphone that have no reason or desire to jump over to the most-hated brand of smartphone out there, especially if we're talking about youth right now, they're not going to do it.

It would be a lot easier if the brand was different, and people considered BlackBerry a good and cool thing to have. It's just not that anymore, you can't justify high costs, particularly, up front, when practically no-one outside of the core constituency has any desire to be a part of your brand. The brand is shamed, it would be hard to imagine a person who would want to pay top price to be apart of this.

Ask yourself, has the cost of a BlackBerry at launch ever not been 600/700 dollars full retail, or, in the developing countries, top of the market? You couldn't even justify a top of the market price in 2009!! and yet we're in 2014 and they're still pricing their phones there.

It feels like the only positioning/brand messaging that has been communicated is their price point.. lol and that's surely not going to change the perception by itself.

What type of customer in developing markets is a $200 dollar phone for? I should say, a disliked brand's $200 phone.

------
Canadians, think of it like hockey - why would you ever buy a team USA uniform (except to burn)? That's how people feel about their phones and carriers. No one is switching sides, and especially for a top of the market price! Even the people that aren't in love with their home team(iOS/Android), they still know to hate BlackBerry because that's the perception.

Posted via CB10

[sentimentGX4]

At 200 USD, the Jakarta is reasonably priced relative to other options available to Indonesians and the developing world. It's not "competitively" priced; but it's closer than the Z30/Z10/Q!0/Q5 have ever been.

[grover5]

OP the price will be under$200 retail, not subsidized. How many phones can you buy for $99 or for nothing today without signing a contract?

Posted via CB10

[Jas00555]

OP the price will be under$200 retail, not subsidized. How many phones can you buy for $99 or for nothing today without signing a contract?

Posted via CB10

The Lumia 520

[grover5]

Yes. That's one. Can you name any others? Given the OP's post I think my point is clear.

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

OP the price will be under$200 retail, not subsidized. How many phones can you buy for $99 or for nothing today without signing a contract?

Posted via CB10

So without a contract they will sell for $99? So BBRY is going to lose money on them?

[garnok]

Yes. That's one. Can you name any others? Given the OP's post I think my point is clear.

Posted via CB10

there are lot of under $200 phone in the market Lenovo S920, Samsung Galaxy core, LG optimus L9, Sony Xperia M, etc

for $99 phone there are...Lenovo A60, samsung galaxy Y, samsung galaxy chat, LG optimus L3 etc

Z3 price is reasonable, the problem is does indonesian market still care with BB?....recent report and my street observation in Jakarta, people already moving from BB to android phone...we have to see the result after the launch

[tdaye]

The release says "UNDER $200". I don't think anyone here knows the exact sale price yet...

Posted via CB10

[grover5]

So without a contract they will sell for $99? So BBRY is going to lose money on them?

I didn't say that. I said under$200. That is what was announced.

Posted via CB10

[grover5]

there are lot of under $200 phone in the market Lenovo S920, Samsung Galaxy core, LG optimus L9, Sony Xperia M, etc

for $99 phone there are...Lenovo A60, samsung galaxy Y, samsung galaxy chat, LG optimus L3 etc

Z3 price is reasonable, the problem is does indonesian market still care with BB?....recent report and my street observation in Jakarta, people already moving from BB to android phone...we have to see the result after the launch

And those are all low tier phones. My point was the OP was confusing subsidized price points with unsubsidized price points.

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

I didn't say that. I said under$200. That is what was announced.

Posted via CB10

What phone were you talking about then?

OP the price will be under$200 retail, not subsidized. How many phones can you buy for $99 or for nothing today without signing a contract?

Posted via CB10

Edit: it looks like you are comparing it to other $99 phones.

[grover5]

What phone were you talking about then?



Edit: it looks like you are comparing it to other $99 phones.

Because the OP said real entry level phones were $99 or free. Like I said above he is comparing subsidized to unsubsidized. His claim is that at $200 it is too expensive to be considered low or mid tier.

Posted via CB10

[badiyee]

$200.

The Z3 price point wouldn't be considered low/mid tier, even in the US. How is it supposed to be branded and bought in the developing markets? Who is even the customer that would buy this?

Where the competition is, is a factor. So, maybe, if there are equal or superior phones at a higher price, the $200 BlackBerry price point would make sense. Though, I'm pretty sure that REAL entry-level phones are probably in the free-99 dollar range. Those are the phones that the feature-phone people convert to. With a $200 price point, you're really going after the people who already have a smartphone that have no reason or desire to jump over to the most-hated brand of smartphone out there, especially if we're talking about youth right now, they're not going to do it.

It would be a lot easier if the brand was different, and people considered BlackBerry a good and cool thing to have. It's just not that anymore, you can't justify high costs, particularly, up front, when practically no-one outside of the core constituency has any desire to be a part of your brand. The brand is shamed, it would be hard to imagine a person who would want to pay top price to be apart of this.

Ask yourself, has the cost of a BlackBerry at launch ever not been 600/700 dollars full retail, or, in the developing countries, top of the market? You couldn't even justify a top of the market price in 2009!! and yet we're in 2014 and they're still pricing their phones there.

It feels like the only positioning/brand messaging that has been communicated is their price point.. lol and that's surely not going to change the perception by itself.

What type of customer in developing markets is a $200 dollar phone for? I should say, a disliked brand's $200 phone.

------
Canadians, think of it like hockey - why would you ever buy a team USA uniform (except to burn)? That's how people feel about their phones and carriers. No one is switching sides, and especially for a top of the market price! Even the people that aren't in love with their home team(iOS/Android), they still know to hate BlackBerry because that's the perception.

Posted via CB10

/facepalm.

Nice try saying "if this doesn't work in the USA, this will never work outside of USA".

You just made two wrong assumptions there, OP.

1. Sub USD200 IS frickin' low end, considering the fact that you'll need at least USD350 and above to get a proper mid end phone, which is still low-mid kind of mid, not the mid-high kind of mid.

2. Prepay market is bigger than post-paid contracted market. In S.E.A (southeast Asia) there turnover is high, (switching carriers), as well as buying pre-pay packages that comes along with the phones (also a high turnover rate).

Now I'm going to add more assumptions that you made that is just factually wrong.

1. You claimed the most hated brand is BlackBerry. WRONG. I can point to few other brands, including 'authentic' Korean-set Samsungs (I don't even know how this term exist) that are downright hated, but BlackBerry being the most hated brand? You've got to be kidding me. Least preferred, yes.

2. You just insulted the entire S.E.A customers (of any origins, of any brand loyalty) with "What type of customer in developing markets is a $200 dollar phone for? I should say, a disliked brand's $200 phone.".

Congratulations. I hope you don't get shot here, execution style. Or got ganged up in an alley and got pierced with a needle laced with AIDS (hey, since you can just assume, let's play with assumption!). Just to humour you, there are a lot of sub USD200 phones that are selling very well, branded or not, pure android or not. Ashas sell well, cheapskate Androids with Quad core MTK chips (without 3G, without LTE) sells like hot cakes here, facebook phones on subsidy sells like hot cakes here, and you're saying "who in the world buys a USD200 phone?"

3. You're assuming that BlackBerry cannot win against other competitors with a similarly priced USD200 phone. Wrong again. Perhaps you should check the local market forces first before even spewing your much maligned opinion as "facts". Here, let me help you.

1. Go to Mobile phone | Handphone | Price list : Mobile88 and key in price RM100 to RM700.

Then knock yourself out with the selection.
USD200 is RM650, I'll give and take RM100 for the extra SIRIM certification and taxes and whatnot. Do the math, then come back and tell us if you still think people don't buy sub USD200 phones.


I await your response. Thank you.

[kbz1960]

Because the OP said real entry level phones were $99 or free. Like I said above he is comparing subsidized to unsubsidized. His claim is that at $200 it is too expensive to be considered low or mid tier.

Posted via CB10

Sorry, didn't get the context

[Cozz4ever]

At under $200, the Z3 has one of the biggest screens you can buy for that price. The screen is the selling point for younger adults.

Who want's to pay $50 less and get a 4" screen on a different phone?

[badiyee]

there are lot of under $200 phone in the market Lenovo S920, Samsung Galaxy core, LG optimus L9, Sony Xperia M, etc

for $99 phone there are...Lenovo A60, samsung galaxy Y, samsung galaxy chat, LG optimus L3 etc

Z3 price is reasonable, the problem is does indonesian market still care with BB?....recent report and my street observation in Jakarta, people already moving from BB to android phone...we have to see the result after the launch

If retailers start selling the Z3 as a "BlackBerry phone that can launch Android apps" (technically illegal, but hey, retailers do what they can just to sell things, their obligation is to profit, not truth), people will turn their heads.

[grover5]

Sorry, didn't get the context

No problem. I would have quoted him but his post was pretty long.

Posted via CB10

[bobshine]

I don't know anything about the low end market in Asia... but here in America, sub 200$ for a smartphone... 5 inches screen? never seen that.

Agreed, there are dumb phones for 100$... if that's what OP is referring to.


Posted via CB10

[SirJes]

1. The phone is under $200, no specific price yet

2. It's meant for Indonesia not the US

3. I disagree with everything else you said.

Posted via CB10

[mago72]

Ok, OP! I am from Brazil - developing market - and I want a BlackBerry, no Iphone, no Android.
I want, too, a phone with same capabilities than Z10, but more cheap, so Z3 is for me.

Foxconn has factory in Brazil too and with subsidiezed price with my carrier, I think Z3 can be very competitive here, and more atractive than low end cheap androids os2.3.

My actual device is a 9800 that I bought used, long time ago, in ebay (USA) for $199 and a friend brought to me.. so
therefore, the Z3 is me!!!

[pantlesspenguin]

D_March already touched on this, but I wanted to reiterate it. The Z3 will be $200 (or less) FULL RETAIL. That's not a subsidized price. I was looking at entry/mid phones at T-Mobile for my brother and SIL who were looking to upgrade from their 2 year old entry level Sammy device, and I can tell you that most of those devices retailed right around $200 or a little more.

Also:

Ask yourself, has the cost of a BlackBerry at launch ever not been 600/700 dollars full retail, or, in the developing countries, top of the market? You couldn't even justify a top of the market price in 2009!! and yet we're in 2014 and they're still pricing their phones there.

I remember I bought my 9700 for $449 (full retail) on launch day in 2009. I will give you that the retail price of the 9900 was way overpriced when it launched ($599, IIRC), and they kept it at that price for a very long time. However, I thought the $531 for the Z10 that I paid on launch day was pretty reasonable.

[sentimentGX4]

At under $200, the Z3 has one of the biggest screens you can buy for that price. The screen is the selling point for younger adults.

In developing markets, $200 for 5" is standard. There's even plenty of $200 6" phones. For example, the ASUS Zenphone 6. Local OEMs are especially keen on large displays-low price. In India, try the 6" Micromax Canvas XL.

As I said before, the Z3 is a reasonable, but not necessarily competitive, price-spec offering.

[boeingrules]

Is this $200 contract free? If so, then this is quite a reasonable price, even for Indonesia. There are legacy phones here that cost around $130 - $140 so $200 isn't so out of reach, especially for a BB10 device.

While the price of the Z3 is unbelievably low compared to the price points of previous BB10 devices upon their releases (I bought my Z10 for the equivalent of EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS) I think that Indonesia is a lost market for BlackBerry. Ever since BBM was announced to be released on iPhone and Android, people have almost literally been sprinting as fast as they could to those massive Samsungs. Those who still do have a Blackberry use it as their secondary device.

I still remain confused at Chen's strategy. First, he announces that he will turn Blackberry's focus away from consumers, then soon after, he releases a device targeted at consumers in one specific country. But I think he knows what he's doing. Whatever floats the boat, I guess.

[badiyee]

Is this $200 contract free? If so, then this is quite a reasonable price, even for Indonesia. There are legacy phones here that cost around $130 - $140 so $200 isn't so out of reach, especially for a BB10 device.

While the price of the Z3 is unbelievably low compared to the price points of previous BB10 devices upon their releases (I bought my Z10 for the equivalent of EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS) I think that Indonesia is a lost market for BlackBerry. Ever since BBM was announced to be released on iPhone and Android, people have almost literally been sprinting as fast as they could to those massive Samsungs. Those who still do have a Blackberry use it as their secondary device.

I still remain confused at Chen's strategy. First, he announces that he will turn Blackberry's focus away from consumers, then soon after, he releases a device targeted at consumers in one specific country. But I think he knows what he's doing. Whatever floats the boat, I guess.

Foxconn will be very aggressive. Probably not as aggressive as Samsung, but they will be very aggressive.

[PantherBlitz]

So without a contract they will sell for $99? So BBRY is going to lose money on them?

Nope, that's the magic of the deal with Foxconn! They take all inventory risks. Plus, it probably costs a little less than that to manufacture so a little profit will still be make by Foxconn. BBRY will still make a profit through the app store and in services to enterprises that use the Z3. This is why Wall St. reacted favorably to this deal.