06-25-10 02:22 PM
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  1. tack's Avatar
    Stats are misleading.
    RIM doesn't have as big a market share as they did last year, but because the market is growing, they aren't dropping in actual number of customers.

    The article makes it sound like the end is near for RIM unless drastic changes are met. That's far from the truth. But then again, what would you expect from the author of an Android blog.
    Market share matters eventually, whether the market is growing or not. It affects stock prices and thus value. It also shows whether a company has staying power. I think what most are saying is RIM can become Palm in a few years if they do not solve the trend. Once the bad press starts and has a stigma with it to consumers, things could go bad over a period of time. I don't expect RIM will fail anytime soon, but it would be nice for them to compete stronger.
    06-17-10 07:56 PM
  2. gregerator's Avatar
    I was going to say the same thing, but you said it better. Maybe I'm less shallow than some others, but "cool" and "sexy" is the last thing I look for in a phone. If I did I might not be using a BBery. In a way the S2 is "sexy" and "cool", although both qualities are clearly in the eye of the beholder.
    This is where RIM has found its niche. They, rightly, refuse to compete in the pen1s contest for toop of the line spec'd out "sexy" device. Those phones are low profit, high sales, name recognition buying devices. RIM already has name recognition and brand loyalty. They continue to make solid devices and introductory "Smartphones" that are reaping profits. The elite scoff the 85XX series yet RIM sells tons of them. The data rates that ATT has now set will only help. RIM is doing fine and do not need to compete in specs. They will continue to evolve their brand, spread the love in form factors and keep the loyalty of millions.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-17-10 08:54 PM
  3. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    This is where RIM has found its niche. They, rightly, refuse to compete in the pen1s contest for toop of the line spec'd out "sexy" device. Those phones are low profit, high sales, name recognition buying devices. RIM already has name recognition and brand loyalty. They continue to make solid devices and introductory "Smartphones" that are reaping profits. The elite scoff the 85XX series yet RIM sells tons of them. The data rates that ATT has now set will only help. RIM is doing fine and do not need to compete in specs. They will continue to evolve their brand, spread the love in form factors and keep the loyalty of millions.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Agreed. Well said.
    06-17-10 09:07 PM
  4. srvac's Avatar
    Obviously, we can prognosticate all we want, but it seems like RIM is missing out on some big numbers. This summer alone, sales estimates that I've seen are 150,000 EVO 4G, 600,000 iPhone 4, 150,000 HTC Incredibles which is somewhere around a million non-BB smartphones being sold (I realize the iPhones aren't actually out yet).

    What has RIM done during this same time? They released a new Bold (Tour 2) and a Pearl 3G. I realize BB is good with email (as long as it doesn't get truncated), but I still maintain that the growth area is the "average" consumer who wants to upgrade to a smartphone. They want the web and their email, but it doesn't have to be instantaneous. The core business users will probably stick with RIM, especially if the phones are paid for by their companies.

    So I think they're a little late for the party. These RIM phones are still not officially announced so who knows when they'll be out. But I don't blame them for being careful if that's what they're doing after the Storm and Tour problems.
    06-17-10 11:03 PM
  5. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    9000, 9630, 9650, 9700... same girl, different dress.

    Oh, I know the differences... I know! But let's be real.

    Until proven otherwise, the 9800 will be same and OS6 will just look "fresh", yet perform like the others.
    That's perfect! I think I've finally found someone who's nailed the description on what RIM releases year after year to a T. You get excited initially and it looks really good, but when you finally end up in bed, it's the same thing as before.
    06-17-10 11:38 PM
  6. stuaw11's Avatar
    Stats are misleading.
    RIM doesn't have as big a market share as they did last year, but because the market is growing, they aren't dropping in actual number of customers.

    The article makes it sound like the end is near for RIM unless drastic changes are met. That's far from the truth. But then again, what would you expect from the author of an Android blog.
    There's little difference between the end effect of losing marketshare in a static size market and staying steady in a growing market. Either way you're losing a bigger share of the market to competitors.

    As said, it can effect stock prices, etc. The numbers that REALLY matter. There's little difference to stockholders/investors if youre losing marketshare in a level not growing market, or not keeping up with an expanding market. Either way youre giving head room to competitors and theyre putting out bigger and bigger numbers in devices. You cant stay static in this market.

    Look at the buzz over other platforms lately. Even Sprint, the company who's lost millions of customers quarter after quarter, had lines for the Evo. Apple sold 600,000 preorders the FIRST DAY. When's the last time RIM had lines of people for a phone or sold 600,000 in a week, let alone one day of preorders at that? These kind of things hurt RIM, these customers (not all but some) have to come from somewhere, and there are RIM people in those lines now.

    I know this is the biggest RIM loyalist argument now that they cant deny RIM is losing marketshare, but its not a very good argument. Either way you view it, they arent keeping up with the expanding market, which isnt a far cry from losing marketshare in a level market. Other platforms are doing just fine steadily gaining marketshare while the market expands too.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 06-17-10 at 11:58 PM.
    06-17-10 11:49 PM
  7. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    That's perfect! I think I've finally found someone who's nailed the description on what RIM releases year after year to a T. You get excited initially and it looks really good, but when you finally end up in bed, it's the same thing as before.
    Haha, but if she's really hot, I wouldn't mind it. But if she only does the same things all the time, it would get old after while. LOL

    But yeah, I do think the 9800 will add alittle bit to the BB line. I am waiting to see what it and OS6 brings, but, I won't wait forever. I could have upgraded to another phone but I think I am going to wait, but again, not forever, so they really need to get things moving...
    06-18-10 12:08 AM
  8. Rello's Avatar
    I agree with the article. I believe that to many people (read: not all), RIM has simply gotten boring. How many times can u release the same product in a different package? (many times apparently) Our top of the line phone is the 9700 but I find it funny how many weren't willing to upgrade to it from 8900's (including myself) because it simply isn't a significant upgrade. Yeah all android phones basically do the same thing but their specs clearly set them apart.

    Don't get me wrong, I think RIM has a beautiful style in the products nowdays, but I think that because they have pretty much used the same style on every BB since almost 2008, its starting to get stale. All their devices don't need to look like brothers.

    Back when they released the 9000, it was exciting because it looked so different from what they had previously offered. I think they should've went for a "wow" design like that for the slider. Give upcoming designs some flare instead of being complacent.
    06-18-10 03:14 AM
  9. hotgeekness's Avatar
    I believe that to many people (read: not all), RIM has simply gotten boring.[..] Don't get me wrong, I think RIM has a beautiful style in the products nowdays, but I think that because they have pretty much used the same style on every BB since almost 2008, its starting to get stale.[..] Give upcoming designs some flare instead of being complacent.
    I believe part of the problem is how consumers all around the world receive the idea of what makes a BlackBerry... well, a BlackBerry. In other words if you were to ask someone to picture a BlackBerry I am positive it'll turn out like something very similar to the Curve series (being the consumer oriented, affordable and popular series in the BlackBerry lineup). Now if RIM were to completely redesign the traditional BlackBerry design, it could have a rather negative impact on both the sales and reputation of RIM. This could explain why progress has been slow in the past years, but you can't deny the fact that a couple of milestones were reached in this small time frame: 1. transition from trackball to the optical trackpad, 2. more advanced SurePress mechanism for the Storm series and very recently 3. great upgrade to the Pearl series (9100/9105) proving to us how the power of the much larger flagship device could be squeezed into a lovely small form factor. There are many more, but when comparing the current lineup to that of yesteryear, I can only see a proud company behind all this: the traditional BlackBerry design has evolved taking small steps each time and is now nearing the end of its perfection phase. Not implying RIM mustn't do anything, however I feel like it's only the software that is a bit behind. We shall wait and see when the upcoming/rumored slider and clamshell devices and BlackBerry 6 come out.
    06-18-10 04:04 AM
  10. stuaw11's Avatar
    I believe part of the problem is how consumers all around the world receive the idea of what makes a BlackBerry... well, a BlackBerry. In other words if you were to ask someone to picture a BlackBerry I am positive it'll turn out like something very similar to the Curve series (being the consumer oriented, affordable and popular series in the BlackBerry lineup). Now if RIM were to completely redesign the traditional BlackBerry design, it could have a rather negative impact on both the sales and reputation of RIM. This could explain why progress has been slow in the past years, but you can't deny the fact that a couple of milestones were reached in this small time frame: 1. transition from trackball to the optical trackpad, 2. more advanced SurePress mechanism for the Storm series and very recently 3. great upgrade to the Pearl series (9100/9105) proving to us how the power of the much larger flagship device could be squeezed into a lovely small form factor. There are many more, but when comparing the current lineup to that of yesteryear, I can only see a proud company behind all this: the traditional BlackBerry design has evolved taking small steps each time and is now nearing the end of its perfection phase. Not implying RIM mustn't do anything, however I feel like it's only the software that is a bit behind. We shall wait and see when the upcoming/rumored slider and clamshell devices and BlackBerry 6 come out.
    I dont think anyone is contending completely changing the design for good. Keep the BB look for the traditional devices as is, great.

    But why not make say the slider different looking? Why does it have to be a 9700 back with a slider? They could have easily made the back part sleeker. Palm didnt just slap a slider on a treo and call it a Pre, they redesigned it to make it sleeker. They could have used the Storm backing on the slider and made it look at lot sleeker looking too.
    06-18-10 04:25 AM
  11. hotgeekness's Avatar
    Ok, getting what was meant, and agree with you there. However in respect to Palm they also worked hard on pushing out a completely different mobile platform, webOS. Hopefully RIM will come up with new designs once they've got BlackBerry 6 up and working.
    06-18-10 04:50 AM
  12. tack's Avatar
    This is where RIM has found its niche. They, rightly, refuse to compete in the pen1s contest for toop of the line spec'd out "sexy" device. Those phones are low profit, high sales, name recognition buying devices. RIM already has name recognition and brand loyalty. They continue to make solid devices and introductory "Smartphones" that are reaping profits. The elite scoff the 85XX series yet RIM sells tons of them. The data rates that ATT has now set will only help. RIM is doing fine and do not need to compete in specs. They will continue to evolve their brand, spread the love in form factors and keep the loyalty of millions.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Niche and market leader as two different concepts totally. I agree with making maximum profit, but eventually marketing matters on how much price and value you can drive.

    Low profit? Have you seen Apple's profits lately? HTC for sure needs to figure out how to make more money, but Apple is rolling it.
    06-18-10 07:06 AM
  13. breastcancersy's Avatar
    Currently most smartphones either looks or feel like a blackberry or an iphone. Hopefully blackberry can develop something revolutionary in design.
    06-21-10 07:32 AM
  14. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I half agree with the Article,

    RIM has a great following, of people who love their keyboard, and love how they do things, but the Strom was their attempt at wow factor, and really it failed, it isn't a bad phone, but it doesn't have the appeal of other pure touch devices.

    RIM needs to make the Storm "sexy" give it BB connectivity, but give it a stylish body, lets see more bling, lets see those mega numbers that the WOW crowd want, a snapdragon, gigs of memory, dual camera's, wifi and all that Jazm cram it into the thinnest device possible with a nice highrez screen and throw it to the market,

    I know a few people in recent times that have gotten iPhones for personal use, not because they really know what the iPhone has to offer, but because they didn't want to get a clone phone of the Blackberry they carry all day. I love my Clone phone, but honestly if the Storm was the familiar OS I know, with a sleek package I would have really given it a solid look, but from the back it just looked like any other BB, so why take the chance.
    06-21-10 07:48 AM
  15. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    I half agree with the Article,

    RIM has a great following, of people who love their keyboard, and love how they do things, but the Strom was their attempt at wow factor, and really it failed, it isn't a bad phone, but it doesn't have the appeal of other pure touch devices.

    RIM needs to make the Storm "sexy" give it BB connectivity, but give it a stylish body, lets see more bling, lets see those mega numbers that the WOW crowd want, a snapdragon, gigs of memory, dual camera's, wifi and all that Jazm cram it into the thinnest device possible with a nice highrez screen and throw it to the market,

    I know a few people in recent times that have gotten iPhones for personal use, not because they really know what the iPhone has to offer, but because they didn't want to get a clone phone of the Blackberry they carry all day. I love my Clone phone, but honestly if the Storm was the familiar OS I know, with a sleek package I would have really given it a solid look, but from the back it just looked like any other BB, so why take the chance.
    I wouldn't say not to a Storm with improved performance, but if RIM reads this and decides to put it all in a pink sparkly case, I'm blaming you. Just sayin'.

    06-21-10 12:31 PM
  16. geoffsdad's Avatar
    As much as I hate it, the first phone that can meet the full flash requirements for Farmville, will rule the world! I hate it, I hate it, I hate it! You could make a phone that looks like a banana, and if it could play farmville, a million monkeys would buy it on the first day of release. Sad but true.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-21-10 03:01 PM
  17. alby4ever's Avatar
    The average new consumer is very shallow.
    Yeah they must be shallow because they don't want to deal with old interfaces, daily battery pulls, and memory issues where their texts (isn't that what a BB is for) and calendar entries get deleted.

    Keep reaching there buddy.

    A lot of consumers have BB's because for a while it was a "status" thing. Obviously by the look of the shrinking marketshare, they realized they were duped by RIM and are now looking at smartphones that do everything a BB can and more.
    06-21-10 03:24 PM
  18. alby4ever's Avatar
    This is where RIM has found its niche. They, rightly, refuse to compete in the pen1s contest for toop of the line spec'd out "sexy" device. Those phones are low profit, high sales, name recognition buying devices. RIM already has name recognition and brand loyalty. They continue to make solid devices and introductory "Smartphones" that are reaping profits. The elite scoff the 85XX series yet RIM sells tons of them. The data rates that ATT has now set will only help. RIM is doing fine and do not need to compete in specs. They will continue to evolve their brand, spread the love in form factors and keep the loyalty of millions.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I've never read a more failed post on CB than this one. So many things wrong, it's not even worth going over.
    06-21-10 04:28 PM
  19. Jayhawk-X's Avatar
    The author may not have hit the bullseye, but he did hit the tree. Well written.
    06-21-10 04:42 PM
  20. lnichols's Avatar
    Personally I think that BB has about two years to up their game or start the risk of losing corporate/business market share in bigger chunks. If you look at every new iPhone release, OS X workstation and server release, they are adding pieces here and there to grab corporate smartphone customers, and until recently hadn't been advertising them, just putting the pieces in place. Remote wipe and software control, IPSEC remote access to corporate resources, MobileMe is performing some BIS-like push e-mail functionality, MS Exchange push integration, encrypted data. Apple is just officially going on notice for business customers with iOS 4 with a section all about business functions.

    Apple - iPhone - iPhone in Business

    Is it up to BB business functionality yet? Probably not but if Apple has shown anything is that once they are committed to something and put marketing power behind it they can do a lot of damage to a competitor. Also I think that Apple sees that if they can get the iPhone into the corporate world, it would open the door to start getting more Macs and Xserves out into corporate America.

    If Apple or some other company can come up with something as secure, reliable and functional for business as a Blackberry, and provide the "sexiness" and slickness like the iPhone then people and companies will start switching. If RIM sits back and waits then someone will get all the pieces just right and then.....
    06-21-10 08:00 PM
  21. BoldtotheMax's Avatar
    Seems I am different from the masses, lol! Such is my life.


    I have had 3 berries to date...Storm1, Pearl8100 and now a 9700. I had many problems with the Storm 1 as well. I still stuck with a berry and had my 8100 for 2 years and was a tank! Now I have the 9700. Which supposedly has horrible QC...yet I haven't had a problem in months that I have had it...been rock solid since the day I got it save some paint chipping off a couple keys. (My fault as I nail type a lot!)

    I actually like how easy it was to go from the older OS's to 5.0 and actually get along fine with the browser...loads up fine and does everything I need it to do. Awesome screen, keyboard, fast email, have the free apps I need and 2nd to none battery life...oh and works great as a phone, all my berries have done that really well.

    I understand people want the latest and greatest new gadget out, but berries did stuff that took the iPhone years to do and yeah Andriod does well due to a new market and knowing what a consumer wanted...still there are people like me that are still happy with their Berries, **** I love 5.0 and I am sure 6.0 will be that much better.

    This all coming from someone who for a month went through 2 andriod phones, lol! Just not IMO the same as a berry. I can do everything else those phones could, just as well...if not better. I swayed for a minute due to an awesome price on a Cliq and a mytouch, but in the end I came back...practically running back, lol!

    I will say Andriod and iPhone have the sexy appeal and sex sells...I will take my old ugly woman over them shallow chicks anyway...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-22-10 03:59 AM
  22. interpretllc's Avatar
    Nice, any more information?
    06-24-10 05:31 PM
  23. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    Nothing new here, we've been discussing this forever (or so it seems). I don't think it's impossible for RIM to have a bit more "whiz/bang" for consumers, without hampering the core of their products/services. By and large, I've always thought of their phones, which I LOVE, as being "practical if not pedestrian." Personally, I don't yearn for glitz and glam, but for those that do want some added bling, it certainly wouldn't hurt to offer it up!

    I only wish this article referenced the Storm 3 rather than the slider....I have NO interest in a slider!
    06-24-10 05:42 PM
  24. mas3222's Avatar
    I think it was a good article as I think its true. I personally like the way my blackberry looks one reason is its distinctive. Truly sexy no. But I still like it. For the rest out there, I have heard people not get one because they want something that can compete in looks to the iphone. I think the 9800 is going to do very well due to being touchscreen and draw those customers in while also drawing in the customers who love qwerty keyboards like I do. And I think its absolutely beautiful. Too bad Sprints not getting one. And nope I won't leave Sprint as I love them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-25-10 10:40 AM
  25. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    Ha! I don't know who you've been dating, but this certainly doesn't describe my typical experience

    That's perfect! I think I've finally found someone who's nailed the description on what RIM releases year after year to a T. You get excited initially and it looks really good, but when you finally end up in bed, it's the same thing as before.
    06-25-10 02:22 PM
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