[cracked8638]

Yes, I think BB10 is dead as a smartphone platform. In fact, I believe the problem is that it never was really a smartphone platform but rather a cell phone os (very good one) that was grafted to catch up with the iphone. What should BB do now that it has an Android device?

1) It should separate the two product lines to make them serve distinct purposes. BB10 should be marketed as a secure communications device with premium quality sound and messaging management. BB Messenger has great sound quality, does not require you to give out your phone number and supports attachments and screen captures in chats. This device is further backed up by Blackberry Blend and Balance and the excellent Hub. It should be marketed to those who don't have time or interest in messing around with music, unsecure apps, but just want a reliable device for communications and calendaring, with perhaps some maps. It should be reserved for task specific uses and marketed as as something that can simplify your life by eliminating all the junk that is typically present on a smart phone. To do this BB must creatively redefine a new product category of secure, simplified communications and forget about selling it is a smartphone. Just as vinyl records have a group of distinct followers, like riders of fixies, there is a market for a phone that is not a smartphone. BB has to sell it as a product like blue jeans - the appeal being in its simplicity and good design.

2) For the Android product line, BB should maintain it as a smartphone alternative to Galaxy and Iphone. The distinctive features would be the enhanced DTEK and compatibility with Apple music, as well as battery life and of course access to the Android ecosystem. The current problem with BBs strategy in this area is that it is competing in a low margin business, where people buy the phone for the network externalities (access to iTunes, Google Play) and bling factor, both of which BB is not good at selling. So I think, as many have pointed out, BB may fail in the Android market because it has come too late. It can only survive by undercutting on price, perhaps in Asia, Middle East and other areas where BB has a good name. I think it will need to introduce a lower cost device in order for the Android product line to survive. But this is a double edge sword - cut the cost and you end up with an unattractive device in your most profitable markets.

In sum, BB has to develop Android products as the "Swiss Army knife" of phones (feature rich) and develop BBOS products as the ultrasharp 10 inch chef's knife, while not getting them mixed up in the heads of prospective buyers. I love BBOS for its simplicity and performance. I don't look at my Z10 if it is not ringing or flashing. But I see that most people do look to their smartphone as a source of distraction or entertainment. BB needs to understand the differences in these two user types.

[TgeekB]

"In your opinion, should blackberry focus on android and forget bb10 ?"

No, that would be a terrible idea. They need to bring out a BlackBerry 10 flagship to satisfy the customers that have no intention on buying Android powered BlackBerries.

Wasn't the Passport a flagship device?

[DrBoomBotz]

Android, Apple IOS and Blackberry 10 all share the same Unix foundation this why your able to run Android apps on a Blackberry 10 device. Its what they put on top of that Unix foundation that makes them different.

Just about took the bait.
Nice one!

[Old_Mil]

I don't know if it's the best subforum here but i'll ask my question.

If you were John Chen, would you step up your efforts in promoting android by BlackBerry or would you try to save BBOS10 ?

The priv is a great device but it runs android. Android is not as good as BB10 but blackberry improved it.

I think bb10 is dead. It is declining and it won't make it threw the 2020's. And you ?

Posted via CB10

I would have handled things very differently than Chen has.

No Amazon app store.
No Android runtime.
Cross platform protected BBM text/audio/video out of the box.
No Priv.
Only one physical keyboard phone, the classic as a lifeline for any and all remaining BBOS die hards.

Basically where Chen focused on Android and physical keyboards I would have focused on privacy and security.

[DrBoomBotz]

No Android runtime.

Only one physical keyboard phone, the classic as a lifeline for any and all remaining BBOS die hards.

These things were a done deal before JC came along.

[Thud Hardsmack]

Android, Apple IOS and Blackberry 10 all share the same Unix foundation this why your able to run Android apps on a Blackberry 10 device. Its what they put on top of that Unix foundation that makes them different.

They don't share a Unix foundation. Android uses a Linux kernel and the Dalvik runtime to run Java apps, iOS uses a Darwin base built from parts of FreeBSD, and BB10 uses QNX for a base AND the same Dalvik runtime as Android, which allows it to run Android apps. Linux, BSD, and QNX are Unix-like which means they share some similarities with Unix in the way they operate.

[DrBoomBotz]

Could you post your source please.

Another good one!

[gugomat]

I think that it's time to focus on Andy, but not the right time to loose th bb10. And it seems to me that Chen is going the right way. Turning the users back to the keyboard through the Android, keeping the BlackBerry 10 in the background, so later it could be back with "a normal amount of apps".

Posted via CB10

[Thud Hardsmack]

Could you post your source please.

Google.

[Thud Hardsmack]

Unix (trademarked as UNIX) is a family of multitasking, multiuser computer operating systems that derive from the original AT&T Unix, developed in the 1970s at the Bell Labs
Many clones of Unix have arisen over the years, of which Linux is the most popular, having displaced SUS-certified Unix on many server platforms since its inception in the early 1990s.

Unix-like
"The term can include free and open-source operating systems inspired by Bell Labs' Unix or designed to emulate its features, commercial and proprietary work-alikes, and even versions based on the licensed UNIX source code (which may be sufficiently "Unix-like" to pass certification and bear the "UNIX" trademark)."

Linux (pronounced Listeni/ˈlɪnəks/ LIN-əks[5][6] or, less frequently, /ˈlaɪnəks/ LYN-əks[6][7]) is a Unix-like and mostly POSIX-compliant[8] computer operating system (OS) assembled under the model of free and open-source software development and distribution.

Android (from its former owner Android, Inc.) is a mobile operating system (OS) currently developed by Google, based on the Linux kernel

OS X (pronounced /oʊˌɛsˈtɛn/, oh-ess-TEN;[14] originally Mac OS X) is a series of Unix-based graphical interface operating systems (OS) developed and marketed by Apple Inc.

BlackBerry 10 is based on QNX, a Unix-like operating system that was originally developed by QNX Software Systems.

Dalvik is a discontinued[1] process virtual machine (VM) in Google's Android operating system that executes applications written for Android. Dalvik is an integral part of the Android software stack in Android versions 4.4 "KitKat" and earlier, which is typically used on mobile devices such as mobile phones and tablet computers, and more recently on devices such as smart TVs and wearables. Dalvik is open-source software, originally written by Dan Bornstein, who named it after the fishing village of Dalv�k in Eyjafj�r�ur, Iceland.[2][3]

BlackBerry 10 uses just the Dalvik part of Android, it can't run NDK apps. Those applications have to be ported using the native C/C++QNX SDK instead.
BlackBerry 10: A better Android than Android? | ZDNet

That's exactly what I said. They weren't written out of Unix, which is what using Unix as a foundation means. These are all distinct operating systems that have similarities.

[Thud Hardsmack]

I never said they were "written out of Unix"....I said they have a "Unix foundation". The reason why corporations use the term "Unix-Like" is because "Unix" is patented. It would be like a clone PC.

A Unix-like (sometimes referred to as UN*X or *nix) operating system is one that behaves in a manner similar to a Unix system, while not necessarily conforming to or being certified to any version of the Single UNIX Specification.

When you're talking about software, the foundation is the same as a building's - it's what you build on. So saying that they share the same foundation translates as "built off of" or "written from". BB10 uses QNX as its foundation. QNX is "Unix-like". But it isn't Unix nor use any Unix code. Therefore BB10 does not have a Unix foundation.

[DrBoomBotz]

So Unix-like and Linux all came from the sky?.....where did they come from?

Well Linux was originally written by Linus Torvalds.
And SCO has not been able to make their lawsuit stick.
Not gonna get sucked in. Not gonna get sucked in. Not gonna get sucked in.

[DrBoomBotz]

I know Linux was written by Linus Torvalds but what did he base Linux from?

I guess that would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINIX
Ancillary but related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanenb...orvalds_debate

We could debate what base means but I'm gonna go do something in meat space instead.

[Thud Hardsmack]

I know Linux was written by Linus Torvalds but what did he base Linux from?

He didn't base it from anything, he wrote it from scratch. MINIX would be the closest thing you can consider a base, but the Linux kernel is Linus Torvalds'own creation.

[Thud Hardsmack]

MINIX (from "mini-Unix") is a POSIX-compliant,[citation needed] Unix-like computer operating system based on a microkernel architecture.
It has been free and open source software since it was re-licensed under the BSD license in April 2000

BSD license was used for its namesake, the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD), a Unix-like operating system.

Again, it's a complete separate entity. It doesn't have a Unix code base.

[Thud Hardsmack]

Who Owns UNIX? | SCO and the Battle Over UNIX: A Clear Explanation | InformIT

Still not the base of everything else.

[Thud Hardsmack]

omg...ok man you win...just cause your the moderator.

Prevention of misinformation where we find it is how we roll.

[DrBoomBotz]

Prevention of misinformation where we find it is how we roll.

Excellent mode of transport, can you thwap the "true multitasking" twins in the ear next time they come to town?

[JeepBB]

Excellent mode of transport, can you thwap the "true multitasking" twins in the ear next time they come to town?

I thought I saw the True Multitasking twins in the Hypervisor Bar&Grill.

[DrBoomBotz]

I thought I saw the True Multitasking twins in the Hypervisor Bar&Grill.

Snort! LOL! Snort!

[crazy mazy]

If Blackberry was doing a lot better financially they could support both platforms, however right now they are not doing extremely well. So then they have to support the platform which is gaining the most traction. If none of them are gaining traction then the only option left is to get out of the devices business. That's what it is coming down to, but a lot of people on here aren't comprehending this.

[bap3221]

Well consistency and delivery is blackberrys problem. They did one super bowl commercial and then they stopped advertising. And when they did do the commercial, they failed to deliver what the product is even about! The guy turned a speeding truck into skittles?

I remember people at our super bowl party saying, "what is this about?"

Posted via CB10

[sorinv]

Wasn't the Passport a flagship device?

Almost 1.5 years ago. They should have released Passport II with 810 or something more powerful, full laptop capability and mouse feature on touch keyboard last September and everything would be good.

They should have also released a z50 with 810 to replace z30, sometime last year.

No need for android phones backed up in the cloud unencrypted by Google (like the Iphone as we are discovering now).

Music, livestreaming TV and video work beautifully on the bb10 passport. I use them every day to watch Canadian and international news from Australia.
If you want to use apps which require access to your files and personal info, android is for you and there is no need for BlackBerry to join a long list of companies losing money on android.

Priv sales are proving my point.

BlackBerry hardware is going to die, humbly, like a traitor on its knees, instead of fighting with its head up high till the very end.

[idssteve]

"...traitor on its knees" ? Well said. Unfortunately so. The Q10 was the ultimate betrayal for some of us. Classic was the Q that should've been. Z30 was the Z10 that should've been. BB10.3.2 should've been 10.0. (with 10.2 calendar, tho) All just too little, too late, too timid, too eager to follow the leader each step of the way. No one ever won a race while following the leader.

Low volume niche products are commonly high margin products. Without employing some creatively proprietary "production secret", matching the low margin of high volume competitors is likely unrealistic. Problem with high margin pricing is that consumers need to perceive high margin value. Hard to do while selling handsets powered by specs that were considered marginal three years ago.

Porche styled, Porche priced and Porche PERFORMANCE PassPort powered Classic would have sold at least one. My company has budgeted $3K each for 26 of them, at least. Fwiw. 26 devices might more than double their sales volume next year! Lol... To tears, that is.

[TgeekB]

Almost 1.5 years ago. They should have released Passport II with 810 or something more powerful, full laptop capability and mouse feature on touch keyboard last September and everything would be good.

They should have also released a z50 with 810 to replace z30, sometime last year.

No need for android phones backed up in the cloud unencrypted by Google (like the Iphone as we are discovering now).

Music, livestreaming TV and video work beautifully on the bb10 passport. I use them every day to watch Canadian and international news from Australia.
If you want to use apps which require access to your files and personal info, android is for you and there is no need for BlackBerry to join a long list of companies losing money on android.

Priv sales are proving my point.

BlackBerry hardware is going to die, humbly, like a traitor on its knees, instead of fighting with its head up high till the very end.

Very dramatic, I like your writing style!
Blackberry has been bleeding money since they switched to BB10. I was one of the supporters who thought the switch would work, but I was wrong. You can't keep putting out the same losing products. We can debate back and forth why it didn't work but that is in the past, they had to make a decision and move on, like it or not. I don't know what else to say.