[nickandhistreo]

Yeah, I know we all have a good laugh at the iPhoneOS and WinMo, but Palm used to laugh at WinMo too.

When did they laugh at WinMo, they used it on some of the Treos. In fact palm made some of the best WinMo devices for the time.

Back to the topic at hand, yes the BBos is getting outdated, but it still serves the purpose. Nothing is outdated until it no longer serves the consumers needs. I still love my Treo 755p on the Palm os, and its ancient, but it stills does everything I need it to.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Hankster]

The OS does need major work. If you look at the progression of UI and OS design and development RIM is well behind the eight-ball. iPhone and Google both have better UI and OS systems in terms of usability.

With the speed of technology this days if an OS is still the same over 5+ years there's something wrong. Having a strong UI and design background I can easily say RIM will lose more and more of its market share unless it picks up the pace on the usability of their phones.

[smnc]

No Hostility, just don't understand why a noob such as yourself can't understand that the Blackberry has been around for a long time and has been delivering for years as the best business device. It is not a gaming device, nor will it ever be.

I am a total noob, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I would never want my Berry to be a gaming platform. If I'd wanted a gaming device, I would have bought an iPhone, but my Curve is used primarily for e-mail and texting. I also use quite a few other apps on a daily basis, and the only games I have installed are the blockbreaker and tetris clones.

As i stated before they recently purchased Torch mobile and will be developing newer and better OS in the near future as the demand for non-business users has grown.

As I said, I have high hopes for the Torch acquisition, but I'm not counting my chickens until they hatch. I recall Palm's purchase of Handspring, which looked promising, but ended doing absolutely nothing for the company in the long run (other than the somewhat marginal benefit of the Treo brand name).

The BB cannot and should not be compared to the Iphone or any other phone since it is in a class of its own.

I agree with you. As I said before, the iPhone is a toy, nothing more. Neither WebOS or Android will ever compete in the corporate arena with RIM, but I think both Palm and Android are, or least will be, a serious threat to the non-corporate segment of RIM's sales.

True, innovation is great! Also if you are doing a battery pull once a week that is much less than the average user.

Yeah, find that more than once or twice a week doesn't provide any additional benefit, but this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
It seems to me that the fact that battery pulls are required at all points to the fact that the OS just wasn't designed for all the Apps it's forced to run these days. It's not a flaw, it's a limitation of an older architecture.

When did they laugh at WinMo, they used it on some of the Treos. In fact palm made some of the best WinMo devices for the time.

I'm not sure how much you know about the history of PDAs but PalmOS predates WinMo (or PocketPC as it was known back then) by several years. When PocketPC came out in 2000, it was laughed at by most PalmOS users (myself included) as a slow, inefficient OS with few apps.
It wasn't until years later (2005 I think) that The Treo 700W was launched with WinMo on it. Many old school Palm users felt immensely betrayed by that Palm's decision to make peace with "the enemy".
The reason I used the example in my earlier post was that Palm OWNED the PDA market in 2000, but lost it to WinMo and RIM due to a lack of innovation.
Palm couldn't produce a good next generation OS to save their lives, while WinMo got better every year (sound familiar?). By 2005 WinMo was just plain better than PalmOS and that's why Palm ended up going with Microsoft.

Back to the topic at hand, yes the BBos is getting outdated, but it still serves the purpose. Nothing is outdated until it no longer serves the consumers needs. I still love my Treo 755p on the Palm os, and its ancient, but it stills does everything I need it to.

Not to nitpick, but I think your getting outdated confused with obsolete.
Something is outdated or "out-of-date" as soon as it is no longer current. It has nothing to do with usability at all. So yes, the BlackBerry OS is Outdated. It has not had a major update in several years.
However, it's not Obsolete, and depending on your needs, neither is the PalmOS. I'm not saying the BBOS should be tossed away, but imo, it needs a fair bit of work to make it "current" again.

The OS does need major work. If you look at the progression of UI and OS design and development RIM is well behind the eight-ball. iPhone and Google both have better UI and OS systems in terms of usability.

With the speed of technology this days if an OS is still the same over 5+ years there's something wrong. Having a strong UI and design background I can easily say RIM will lose more and more of its market share unless it picks up the pace on the usability of their phones.

+1
I couldn't agree more. The core idea of the OS is solid, but it's in need of a UI overhaul and probably some architectural expansion to better accommodate modern apps.

[davidnc]

In one word in regardes to "are you concerned about the furture of blackberry OS?"And its no
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[ComfortablyNumb]

I think that there are areas for improvement, but I also think that RIM will work out most of the bugs over time.

[corbintechboy]

Excellent argument! I agree 100%, and I've already said so

I have to disagree somewhat with you here on a couple points.

First, Palm has ONLY ever made smartphones and PDAs, and unless I'm very much mistaken, the Palm Pilot predates the BlackBerry by several years.

But what was the DEFACTO device for businesses?

Secondly, to say that the BlackBerry is not in competition with other smartphones is naive imo.
As several posts here have mentioned, the transition to a consumer or at least "pro-sumer" device is in progress an inevitable.
Yes RIM was first, but does that mean nothing should ever change?

Here's an example:
IBM was the first out the door with the PC. Amigas and Apples were just considered toys. IBM also ignored companies like Dell and Compaq (now HP) because IBM OWNED the business market, and that was all that mattered. Everything else was just for home users. Well, that kind of thinking almost made IBM go bankrupt.

Now here's an even better example:
Back in the late 90's the Palm was THE device for busy professionals. In 1999, a new type of device appeared on the scene. It was a innovative two way pager called a BlackBerry.
Well Palm wasn't too worried, after all they owned the PDA business so some pager was no competition at all. For a few years, all went well for Palm as the BlackBerry continued to evolve. In 2002 the first "modern" smartphone style BlackBerry came out, and things started to change over at Palm.
Palm bought Handspring to get the Treo smartphone of to compete with RIM, but the pendulum had already started swinging away from Palm. By 2005 Palm had started shifting to WinMo as it was unable to stay competitive with the much more innovative BlackBerry on its own.

Ok... Lets use the PC (Linux)...

Debian and Slackware are the oldest surviving Linux Distributions around! How have they maintained a level of usability and stability? They remained behind the more cutting edge versions of Linux in order to serve a role more in the business/server market. And let's not forget about the BSDs that also run much of the internet, and while remaining outside the cutting edge!

The point you may ask? It doesn't always take cutting edge to remain most useful.

For the Record I agree 100% on the iPhone. It is a toy, but I'd keep an eye on Android and WebOS if I were you. They're new, and they'll never take away the hardcore corporate market that RIM was built on, but I think either or both are completely capable or marginalizing RIM to JUST the hardcore corporate market.

I think your wrong! Biggest marketer of all time is word of mouth! Most of the corporate world is going to stay with what is tried and true!

Corporations are not in the business of trying things that may pose a security risk! BB has proven to be secure, I don't see this ever changing! Sure... Mah and Pah places may use other devices to do small time management, but again, not BBs market!

Why do these things have to be mutually exclusive?
Windows 7 has a MUCH better user interface and is MUCH more user friendly than say Windows NT4.0, but it's the most secure Windows yet.

User friendly is only a very small piece of the puzzle! Let's look at Windows 98! It was by far the most user friendly OS of it's time, but not without issue! It was a security nightmare!

On a side note, using Windows as a basis for such a argument is laughable! At least use something with a proven track record of security and less bugs please! Microsoft will never make a secure OS! There are to many "security" companies that would go under!

While I agree that having a device that "just works" is the most important thing, I can only see more BB users are a good thing. More users mean more apps, more money for r&d and better device prices.
And for the record I have to do a battery pull at least once a week or so to keep my Curve usable.
I don't think that's a completely stable...

On a side note, I also have people calling me every day requiring a re-install of Windows! If you would do a base install and just install the security apps that are needed for a Windows box, all would be solved! And of course would also make for a very boring Windows experience!

Hence if we would not tinker with our BBs and just run the software that came with it, we would probably never need a battery pull!

How can innovation be a bad thing? The whole idea of the BlackBerry is an innovation over the original text-receiving pager. Innovation is what drive the technology industry.

Innovation by its self is not a bad thing! It is when a company feels as if it has to cater to a more demanding crowd when it does become something un-wanted!

I stand on my previous statement that I don't want to see a flood of new "dumb" users coming to BB! Sorry, that is just how I feel!

[smnc]

Goody! I love a debate!

But what was the DEFACTO device for businesses?

As I've stated several times, until the advent of the BlackBerry Smartphone, it was the PalmOS...? After the advent of the BlackBerry, things switched over quite quickly.

Ok... Lets use the PC (Linux)...

Debian and Slackware are the oldest surviving Linux Distributions around! How have they maintained a level of usability and stability? They remained behind the more cutting edge versions of Linux in order to serve a role more in the business/server market. And let's not forget about the BSDs that also run much of the internet, and while remaining outside the cutting edge!

The point you may ask? It doesn't always take cutting edge to remain most useful.

Sorry, but your analogy is flawed
Debian and Slackware are free. So it's kinda hard for Red Hat, Windows, or any other paid OS to bump them off. BlackBerries on the other hand are fairly expensive.
And in the case of Debian specifically, many of the more "cutting edge" Linux versions you alluded to are actually built off Debian, so again, no direct competition.

I think your wrong! Biggest marketer of all time is word of mouth! Most of the corporate world is going to stay with what is tried and true!

Corporations are not in the business of trying things that may pose a security risk! BB has proven to be secure, I don't see this ever changing! Sure... Mah and Pah places may use other devices to do small time management, but again, not BBs market!

Ummm... I think you need to re-read what I wrote in my original post. I said that IMO Android and/or WebOS could NOT take away the corporate market from RIM, but that they might capture RIM's casual users.
Unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you said, you agree with me?

User friendly is only a very small piece of the puzzle! Let's look at Windows 98! It was by far the most user friendly OS of it's time, but not without issue! It was a security nightmare!

Mac users may disagree with you, but sure. I'm not sure of your point. Yes a good UI can exist without security... so? The UI had nothing to do with its massive security flaws.

On a side note, using Windows as a basis for such a argument is laughable! At least use something with a proven track record of security and less bugs please! Microsoft will never make a secure OS! There are to many "security" companies that would go under!

My point isn't that Windows 7 is completely secure.
My point is that it's MORE secure than NT4.0, and yet ALSO has a better UI.

On a side note, I also have people calling me every day requiring a re-install of Windows! If you would do a base install and just install the security apps that are needed for a Windows box, all would be solved! And of course would also make for a very boring Windows experience!

Very true.
But you also know that under normal usage, a Windows PC shouldn't need a re-install for MANY years.

Hence if we would not tinker with our BBs and just run the software that came with it, we would probably never need a battery pull!

Once again, you're agreeing with me.
I've mentioned several times in this thread that the root problem seems to be that the BlackBerry simply wasn't designed for the level of usage it sees now.
I only have 10 non-RIM apps and 1 custom theme installed and I've only uninstalled 2 or 3 apps and a couple themes. It's not like I'm continuously tinkering with my Curve. So why should I have to do regular battery pulls?
Because the BlackBerryOS was NOT designed for 3rd Party apps at all, originally.

Innovation by its self is not a bad thing! It is when a company feels as if it has to cater to a more demanding crowd when it does become something un-wanted!

It sounds like you're saying that companies should only innovate when they want to, and that customers should never demand anything? That as customers we should let the manufacturer decide what we should have and what we shouldn't?
Maybe I'm being a bit glib, but why shouldn't companies try and meet the demands of consumers?

I stand on my previous statement that I don't want to see a flood of new "dumb" users coming to BB! Sorry, that is just how I feel!

You have nothing to apologize for. You simply believe that RIM should restrict itself to the corporate/business sector and dump the consumer market. It's your right to believe that.
But unless your name is Mike Lazaridis or Jim Balsillie, I think you're out of luck. With The Pearl and Storm, it seems pretty clear that RIM is aggressively pursuing the consumer market.
I contend that if this is a market that RIM intends to maintain a significant presence in, then the BlackBerryOS is in need of significant improvements.

[Exiled Bulldawg]

The slow evolutionary approach RIM has taken with the Blackberry OS has concerned me also. While I agree with the posters who state my Blackberry has not changed, I as a user have. In addition, my alternatives have changed also.

I picked a Blackberry smartphone for my personal use because I knew the OS and didn’t want to learn another OS. My employer had provided me with a 8830 with BES. I liked the OS and what it could do. However, at the time I had limited other options. Once it was necessary to obtain a personal smartphone, I chose a Blackberry because it fit most of my needs. Notice I didn’t say all.

As a point of interest, some years back, I was a manager for a large telecom company and we issued all second level managers a Palm Pilot, if they asked. I carried one, as it was easier to keep up with my meetings when I was away from my office, which was often. My Palm sycnched with Outlook and had my contacts and schedule in it. My admin assistant would update my calendar and I would synch every day. Many said that was all they needed. We also carried I-pagers for mobile mail. Upon the release of the initial BB’s, it became possible for me to carry real time updates to my Exchange based calendar. Notice we had all carried something prior to a BB. That was the revolutionary aspect of the Berry: it allowed me access to my mail and schedule in real time. Something my Palm Pilot didn’t because Palm had no easy way to synch with Exchange.

Later, I didn’t have access to a BES system and carried a Palm Pilot, because I was familiar with the device and how to use it. So, I remained a dual device person. I had a Palm for PDA purposes and a cell phone for a phone. I was not the only person doing this for the early 2000’s.

For those who say the “prosumer” segment doesn’t matter, I believe they are wrong. I think all Exchange servers past 2005 or so have “active synch,” which allows WinMo devices to synch with Exchange in near real time. Several managers in my company preferred Treo’s, because they could run better applications and get their email at the same time.

The idea that security alone is enough to warrant staying on the BB platform is flawed. Corporate networks are already compromised by the inherent lack of security within Exchange and devices. BB does have a comparative advantage in IT being able to administer the devices at a distance with BES, however, the same things could be accomplished by proper procedures with Exchange.

Many analysts have attributed RIM’s recent growth to consumers choosing BB for their smartphone. If this growth is curtailed, a significant revenue stream of RIM’s will not grow. While I-Phone, Android, and Web-OS may look like toys, proper primary development of push mail on these platforms may have significant detrimental impact on future BB sales. It is a matter of applications – if a device becomes an intrinsic part of a user’s life, they are more likely to continue the upgrade path. To become that part of a user’s life, multiple new uses beyond simple messaging must be found.

An example of this is the ability of I-phone and Android phones to scan a bar code and show prices of the same product at other locations close by. This is a blend of barcode reading and GIS technology. While an I-phone and an Android phone could do this task, to my knowledge, no Blackberry can. Innovation is necessary, and is in addition to the core aspects of a device. No technology company can stop innovating without significant peril to its future.

As previous posters have pointed out, many technology companies of the past have developed great systems and then stopped innovating because “no one needs that.” IBM, DEC, Unisys, and Zilog immediately come to mind as companies with great products that stopped innovating. I love my Berry for what it is. The problem is once tasting what is possible, the human condition is to want more. Oliver Twist had a point.

[smnc]

BIG +1
Very well put!

Also Edocrab (Barcode backwards) adds the barcode functionality you were talking about to any BlackBerry with a proper autofocus camera.

[Exiled Bulldawg]

I stand corrected! I saw the barcode apps on i-Phone and Android last year, it seems I am not the only one who saw a need for Bberry app! Stinks my Curve won't work with it, though.

Edit: Another thing that has me worried is Crackberry seems to have more apps than blackberry's official app site.

[smnc]

I know... I was all excited when it came out, and I rushed over to the webpage only to be crushed...

Actually you can still use it, but you need to punch in the barcode number manually.... EWWWW!

[Duvi]

You're comparing consumer end toys with a business/critical infrastructure device, they aren't even in the same league. There is a reason firefighters, police, military, etc. Don't have iPhones.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Police Officer Uses iPhone to Establish Peace in a Hispanic Environment - Deputy Hollenbeck has been using his iPhone as a translator for about eight months - Softpedia

And the military has been testing out the iPhone to be able to use it.

[brinky]

Half-assing. Lol

With military grade encryption, remote corporate management second to none and a host of other features you won't find anywhere else, I think that comment is a little off the mark.

You're comparing consumer end toys with a business/critical infrastructure device, they aren't even in the same league. There is a reason firefighters, police, military, etc. Don't have iPhones.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Just because it it what every one else is using doesn't make it the best. Look at Microsoft Windows. It is everywhere, yet it is not the best OS out there.

I will give you the fact that the BB has great remote management for BES users, but that it about it. Encryption, what consumer cares about encryption. Plus if all my data wasn't sent through a common server, we wouldn't need such high encryption would we?

And I am so sick of the comparison of other phones at consumer toys. How many people on crackberry have a business BB compared to those using it for person (consumer) use? Die hard BB fanboys need to realize that the future is in the 'consumer toy' market. If BB doesn't do something to make the OS a better consumer OS, then they will be stuck in their niche business world.

[DravenX]

I don't think the OS will ever be perfect. With all people that use Blackberries, I doubt RIM can make all of them happy.

[ekyle125]

Just because it it what every one else is using doesn't make it the best. Look at Microsoft Windows. It is everywhere, yet it is not the best OS out there.

I will give you the fact that the BB has great remote management for BES users, but that it about it. Encryption, what consumer cares about encryption. Plus if all my data wasn't sent through a common server, we wouldn't need such high encryption would we?

And I am so sick of the comparison of other phones at consumer toys. How many people on crackberry have a business BB compared to those using it for person (consumer) use? Die hard BB fanboys need to realize that the future is in the 'consumer toy' market. If BB doesn't do something to make the OS a better consumer OS, then they will be stuck in their niche business world.

But Windows is the most widely used and widely accepted and I don't see that changing. Back to the BB, point is that security-wise, the iPhone is a hole. The remote management features like pushing out security policies and wiping a device from the BES server, the message encryption, are part of the reason BBs are so popular with business. Security.

Could the BB OSs use improvements? Of course they could. I wouldn't mind have multiple "pages" to flip through for my icons. More memory for applications would be very nice (hardware related I know)! Even give us the ability to install apps to a memory card, even WinMo has that.

Why do people compare the iPhone to BBs, Its consumer versus business.

[corbintechboy]

Goody! I love a debate!

As I've stated several times, until the advent of the BlackBerry Smartphone, it was the PalmOS...? After the advent of the BlackBerry, things switched over quite quickly.

And my point was that Palm has not been able to survive in that market. BB has directed resources to the corporate environment and has been very happy there!

Sorry, but your analogy is flawed
Debian and Slackware are free. So it's kinda hard for Red Hat, Windows, or any other paid OS to bump them off. BlackBerries on the other hand are fairly expensive.
And in the case of Debian specifically, many of the more "cutting edge" Linux versions you alluded to are actually built off Debian, so again, no direct competition.

My point was not to compare BB to Linux. My point was that most of your cutting edge distributions are not running as servers.

Companies like Redhat, Novell, Debian, Slackware, BSDs are the defacto OSs for servers, despite the fact that they are no where near cutting edge (much like the BB not following the mainstream as fast as you would like).

Ummm... I think you need to re-read what I wrote in my original post. I said that IMO Android and/or WebOS could NOT take away the corporate market from RIM, but that they might capture RIM's casual users.
Unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you said, you agree with me?

After a re-read I guess we do .

Mac users may disagree with you, but sure. I'm not sure of your point. Yes a good UI can exist without security... so? The UI had nothing to do with its massive security flaws.

Hackers (crackers) will always attack what has a big market share! There is no point at this time attacking any OS that has a small market share (Mac). You bring mass users to the table with the BB and security WILL become an issue. Apple fights this with having to approve the software that gets released for the iPhone.

UI has no direct relationship with with security. But... Better UI=more users... In turn=more careless users and in turn=security risks (usually self imposed by misinformed users).

My point isn't that Windows 7 is completely secure.
My point is that it's MORE secure than NT4.0, and yet ALSO has a better UI.

It does have a better UI.. Being more secure is something that is yet to be seen.

Very true.
But you also know that under normal usage, a Windows PC shouldn't need a re-install for MANY years.

Very true!
With correct security practices and smart usage.

Once again, you're agreeing with me.
I've mentioned several times in this thread that the root problem seems to be that the BlackBerry simply wasn't designed for the level of usage it sees now.
I only have 10 non-RIM apps and 1 custom theme installed and I've only uninstalled 2 or 3 apps and a couple themes. It's not like I'm continuously tinkering with my Curve. So why should I have to do regular battery pulls?
Because the BlackBerryOS was NOT designed for 3rd Party apps at all, originally.

And we agree yet again . The constant reboots come from a company trying to be something it is not.

It sounds like you're saying that companies should only innovate when they want to, and that customers should never demand anything? That as customers we should let the manufacturer decide what we should have and what we shouldn't?
Maybe I'm being a bit glib, but why shouldn't companies try and meet the demands of consumers?

Not saying that at all! I am saying the BB should cater to the people for which it was made.

If I am a luxury car salesman (maker), why should I take demands from people who like sports cars? Same thing, why should BB take demands from people comparing iPhones? Different market completely!

You have nothing to apologize for. You simply believe that RIM should restrict itself to the corporate/business sector and dump the consumer market. It's your right to believe that.
But unless your name is Mike Lazaridis or Jim Balsillie, I think you're out of luck. With The Pearl and Storm, it seems pretty clear that RIM is aggressively pursuing the consumer market.
I contend that if this is a market that RIM intends to maintain a significant presence in, then the BlackBerryOS is in need of significant improvements.

But they are doing it at a slow, smart pace (hence the whole point of this thread). This is a good thing! This means that BB is indeed interested in pursuing a different type of crowd, not at the cost of security!

The pace works for me!

[cd36]

Has nobody noticed that basically all of RIM's growth is in the Consumer market? They are making their money off of consumers. I believe it is even at a 50/50 split right now between Corporate and Consumer BB's. So you take away the consumer side of things, and you take away RIM's growth, revenues, and half of the market share they have. Who is going to fund your new business phones now? Until the corporate side of things starts showing as much growth and potential as the consumer side (which will probably be never) RIM has to go after consumers, for the sole fact that that is where they are making their money from right now!

[belfastdispatcher]

How many times can you reinvent the wheel?

[Merc25]

Personally I think Blackberry needs to be updated with an improved UI, browser, etc. But only if they retain the functionality and security blackberry is known for.

[smnc]

And my point was that Palm has not been able to survive in that market. BB has directed resources to the corporate environment and has been very happy there!

I'll concede the point. RIM does appear to be much more secure in the Corporate market than Palm ever was. For now.
Remeber Novell? They sat on top of the corporate ladder for a long time.

My point was not to compare BB to Linux. My point was that most of your cutting edge distributions are not running as servers.

Companies like Redhat, Novell, Debian, Slackware, BSDs are the defacto OSs for servers, despite the fact that they are no where near cutting edge (much like the BB not following the mainstream as fast as you would like).

Fair enough. Following your belief that BlackBerries belong in the office and nowhere else, this point does become impossible to argue.

Hackers (crackers) will always attack what has a big market share! There is no point at this time attacking any OS that has a small market share (Mac). You bring mass users to the table with the BB and security WILL become an issue. Apple fights this with having to approve the software that gets released for the iPhone.

UI has no direct relationship with with security. But... Better UI=more users... In turn=more careless users and in turn=security risks (usually self imposed by misinformed users).

Once again, you are correct, and I was kinda hoping you wouldn't pick up on this point.
However, thanks to BES, it should still be possible to maintain security on corporate BlackBerries. Network access restrictions, and dis-allowing app installs should create a pretty secure environment.

It does have a better UI.. Being more secure is something that is yet to be seen.

Fair enough. How about Windows 7 vs. Windows 95 then?

But they are doing it at a slow, smart pace (hence the whole point of this thread). This is a good thing! This means that BB is indeed interested in pursuing a different type of crowd, not at the cost of security!

The pace works for me!

Let me ask you this:
Are you interested in/excited by the new hardware emerging from RIM? Or are you content to remain with an 88xx as the top of the line?
RIMs hardware has been improving by leaps and bounds with offerings like the Javelin, Tour and forthcoming Onyx.
I know even many corporate hard-liners like you must be excited by the newer hardware, and the development of said hardware is driven by consumer sales.

****, why couldn't RIM offer two variants of the OS, much like Microsoft used to? A more secure corporate version (call it BES-OS) and a more flexible consumer version (BIS-OS)?
I still don't see why RIM should limit itself to only one segment of the market, just because it's good at it. Passing up growth opportunities tends to get you bought out.
Say Palm really does have a smash hit with webOS? In 5 years they could be big enough to purchase RIM.
The IT industry is a constantly changing and very competitive arena, and I contest that those who can't adapt will get squashed.

[smnc]

Really? I didn't realize that the unpleasant segment of the Christain afterlife (where the fallen angel Lucifer lives) is a swear on this forum... whoops.

[corbintechboy]

****, why couldn't RIM offer two variants of the OS, much like Microsoft used to? A more secure corporate version (call it BES-OS) and a more flexible consumer version (BIS-OS)?
I still don't see why RIM should limit itself to only one segment of the market, just because it's good at it. Passing up growth opportunities tends to get you bought out.
Say Palm really does have a smash hit with webOS? In 5 years they could be big enough to purchase RIM.
The IT industry is a constantly changing and very competitive arena, and I contest that those who can't adapt will get squashed.

Like that idea! This could be a solve all to out debate.

Lets just agree to disagree on some points. I feel the BB does belong in the corporate environment.

Now of course your second option does change my mind and really would make them very competitive in the consumer market.

[smnc]

Like that idea! This could be a solve all to out debate.

Lets just agree to disagree on some points. I feel the BB does belong in the corporate environment.

Now of course your second option does change my mind and really would make them very competitive in the consumer market.

Agreed!
+1

I think it would be best for all to have one hardware and two software versions

[Exiled Bulldawg]

In this conversation, it has come up several times that Palm has been unable to survive in the corporate environment, which is indeed true. The question is why? They had the first truly usable handheld device. Yet, they never made the leap from having a PDA to having a wireless communication device. Even with the Treo. The key for RIM was integration with the Exchange mailbox. Secondly, the ability to easily manage the device remotely. Palm never thought to do that. To be a Palm user meant having to fire up the laptop to check e-mail. Blackberry users merely pulled their device out and checked their mail and schedules.

Unfortunately, the corporate market is probably saturated by Blackberry. Most every company that is going to adopt the BES system probably already installed it. Sure there will be new companies getting large enough to implement the solution and there will be companies who stop using the system for whatever reason. Either way, the number of corporate users is probably going to remain about the same in terms of percentage of the market.

The prosumer or consumer level of device usage is more competitive and requires more innovation. In addition, there must be added utilities and applications that people can use. The basic cell phone has already changed our lives.

A couple of years ago, I read an article discussing how young people were no longer buying watches. The reason most often cited was, “if I need to know what time it is, I’ll check my phone.” Additionally, the cell phone is also replacing the alarm clock and wake up calls when folks travel (which is why the time zone issue with the Berry irks me!) Were these original functions for a cell phone? I mention this because it shows how device usage can change how people live. If one is a watchmaker, worry for the future would be prudent. If one is a cell phone company, leaving simple features the public wants out of a phone is the kiss of death.

I am not sure how many people are aware of this, but I-phone runs on UNIX. Same as the Mac.

And they’re In! iPhone Shell Access Gained | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

iPhone OS X Architecture: Disk, Shell, and Password Security — RoughlyDrafted Magazine

UNIX is a very robust and adaptable environment. And it is extremely scalable. I think it is quite shortsighted of anyone to presume that someone will not make the kind of innovative leap that RIM did when it merged the i-pager with the Exchange mailbox and gave us the Blackberry. I am sure there are people at Apple trying to figure a way to expand into the corporate environment with i-phone and Palm definitely wants its thunder back.

Innovation is key to keeping an audience. It could be that RIM will have to develop two different paths, as several have suggested in this thread, a very secure BES environment and a not so secure BIS environment. I am surprised at the rancor of those who say it is a pure business device, even though there are tremendous prosumer sales. And, berries are segmented by perceived market.

Apple is a very good innovator. So is the born again Palm. I think RIM ignores this at its peril. RIM has changed the paradigm in the past, and I hope it does again!

[smnc]

An interesting perspective, and very well explained +1

I did not realize that the iPhone is Unix based. But both the webOS and Android are Linux based and primarily focused on the online experience. With LTE 4G starting to arrive next year, anyone who underestimates the power of that combination is likely to be in for an unpleasant suprise.

The Torch acquisition gives RIM many of the tools they'll need to develop a next gen OS, but I strongly suspect that a strong cloud based experience is the way of the future.