05-21-16 09:02 AM
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  1. Ezekiel Odebright's Avatar
    Hello friends,

    This question has been in my mind after the release of the rumored leaked image of BlackBerry Hamburg device.

    So please what's your say
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 05-11-16 at 04:44 PM. Reason: link removed
    05-11-16 02:56 PM
  2. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Hey Ezekiel and welcome to the CrackBerry community!
    I'm not sure if the $400 range has a reality but given the Z3 experience, this may happen (hopefully with more success).
    I for one usually go for the high range, but I could definitely give it a try.

    P.S: your post was under moderation, due to the link you've added, which is not permitted given your post count.
    Also, please have a look to our Rules and guidelines regarding "Self Promotion or Advertising", I'd say you may expose it (the link) in your introduction once your post count is high enough

    Welcome aboard !
    SF
    05-11-16 04:48 PM
  3. IJKBB10's Avatar
    I'm not even sure I want to get another BlackBerry. The rumored Humburg all touch phone looks good but it ll most likely have an ok camera which is not good. Needs to be equal to the iPhone 6s and Samsung S6 /7 standards. BlackBerry Hub can now be added thru cobalt. Pretty much the only thing is security. I want a phone with an amazing camera capability!!! F**k to BlackBerry! They take too long to react! Always mistakes after mistakes

    Posted via CB10
    05-11-16 05:22 PM
  4. kvndoom's Avatar
    Yes, for the PKB version I would pay that much. But I just got my Passport today so I will be sticking with BB10 for at least another year. Two if I'm lucky.

    I bought a couple Android phones this month and returned both of them. The problem with android isn't the OS (I thought Marshmallow was great) but finding a reliable manufacturer.

    One thing BlackBerry has in common with Apple is that they make the hardware. Outside of Nexus, Google is not much involved in hardware quality, and it really shows. I would trust a BlackBerry Android device before any of the other brands. I'm on my 6th BlackBerry phone now and I've had nothing but solid build quality.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    05-11-16 05:56 PM
  5. CivilDissident's Avatar
    Pricing has never been the issue... A fulfilling device is what I seek... If BlackBerry releases some random, run of the mill glass slab Android, $400 or not, I most likely will not purchase it... Now if it yields a PKB close to a Classic or improves (GREATLY) upon the thing they gave the Priv, count me in... $400 or another $720 it would be worth it for me... Form factor of a certain nature is all I need to drop a few dollars... However once we reduce the device to just a flat slab $400 isn't a bad price, but I would find it hard to justify that unless it was at the top of the class spec-wise compared to all the other slabs out there...

    However, when you speak in terms of the general public, I feel the $400/mid-range devices are a great move... A little late to the party if you ask me, but a great move nonetheless... Far less likely to be scoffed at by consumers unless, of course, they go and do something stupid like release a device with specs more on par with that of a low range Android as opposed to mid-range... As long as it can compete or at least keep up with the specs of its' peers they'll stand a fighting chance. Better than the Priv stood with its exorbitant price tag at launch anyways...

    Posted via CB10
    haphuongthao and tfitzpat03 like this.
    05-11-16 06:05 PM
  6. Jack Chin's Avatar
    Of the 'modern' mobile OSs, I've used BB10, iOS, and Android, and I like them in that order, with BB10 and iOS close. Since BB10 has obviously gone EOL, I'd planned on iPhone 7+ being my next phone. I LOVE my Passport, but PKB is not a necessity for me. With a functional HUB on Android (plus the notification light) and decent specs, I would pay $400 for Roast or Hamburger.

    Thing is, if Samsung gets a functional Hub-alike going with the Note 6, I might be tempted by that. I could get an app to mimic the notification light, I think. That's how much I love the Hub concept. But a $400 price point would keep me in the BB fold. $500 would price me out of the market, b/c I'm tired of BB's B.S. I'm not going to pay-up for a nondescript drone-phone from a company that can't even decide if it's going to remain in the hardware business.

    A $500 BB or screwed-up Samsung Hub implementation (likely) puts me happily laying out $700-900 for an iPhone I know will work.





    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Jack Chin; 05-11-16 at 07:54 PM.
    neoberry99 likes this.
    05-11-16 07:22 PM
  7. Jack Chin's Avatar
    Also, I get that the Passport's screen dimensions are not conducive to running Android, but it looks to me like they could modify the CAD drawings slightly to run a screen down where the current model's capacitive keyboard is, perhaps lengthen the unit at the top, stuff in more battery, and have an Android winner with low development cost. They could call it the Passport Plus, charge a premium price, and compete straight-up with the Note, which is popular but looks like crap.

    It's not even necessary to call it 'Plus' as the word 'passport' does not necessarily connote an actual passport's dimensions, neat though that is for the current model. And one doesn't want the perception of copying Apple's nomenclature, even if that wasn't the intent. But if they called it 'Plus', they could pull the same trick with the Z30 platform and let that be the standard-sized Passport.

    Also, if there is some critical aspect of screen/performance that makes for good VR, I'd make damned sure my new product had it and that a formal 'gorilla' (i.e., cheap and targeted) marketing plan were put in place to sell to those users, both for raw sales and street cred. (I would be excited by this, and I'd pay more than $500--maybe a lot more.) BlackBerry could still plausibly sell to its critical market of hospital administrators and undertakers, while building a new fan base of, *gulp*, normal people.

    (Note that this plan would require BlackBerry recognizing that not all of its potential market lives in a cubicle nor is named Dilbert.)





    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Jack Chin; 05-11-16 at 08:02 PM.
    anon(9353145) likes this.
    05-11-16 07:47 PM
  8. KNEBB's Avatar
    On this thread, I observed a few points that lean to the Market Focus discussion. On one hand you have someone wondering if a $400 Price Point is doable. Then, those saying BlackBerry would have to offer more than the competition for them to feel comfortable spending the money for another BlackBerry .
    And then the view I most relate to, which is to maximize sales of any new device by offer it to the new users you're trying to attract in conjunction with those who have also requested the device. In this case; BlackBerry 10 users. An option to flash the device to either Operating System would allow one device to be manufactured satisfying both customers (for as long as the OS is being maintained). Given the freedom to choose, the consumer would simply buy the "hardware" offered, while selecting the desired software (while both would be BlackBerry variants) .
    Those customers that are interested in BlackBerry have more incentives, and possibly offsetting some of those who opt for the another non-BlackBerry Android devices, in a Saturated Market .
    And the product sells, if selling device is your End goal.

    Posted via CB10
    05-11-16 08:41 PM
  9. Jack Chin's Avatar
    Doable from an engineering standpoint, yes.

    There would be no Android runtime (so as not to contravene the OHA agreement). Maybe that would be OK. But BB10 development has been scuttled, and you can't turn that on and off like a light.

    BB10 restart would be a very expensive proposition with an even smaller market than the one which wasn't large enough to sustain it in the first place.

    Posted via CB10
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    05-11-16 09:11 PM
  10. Bbnivende's Avatar
    On this thread, I observed a few points that lean to the Market Focus discussion. On one hand you have someone wondering if a $400 Price Point is doable. Then, those saying BlackBerry would have to offer more than the competition for them to feel comfortable spending the money for another BlackBerry .
    And then the view I most relate to, which is to maximize sales of any new device by offer it to the new users you're trying to attract in conjunction with those who have also requested the device. In this case; BlackBerry 10 users. An option to flash the device to either Operating System would allow one device to be manufactured satisfying both customers (for as long as the OS is being maintained). Given the freedom to choose, the consumer would simply buy the "hardware" offered, while selecting the desired software (while both would be BlackBerry variants) .
    Those customers that are interested in BlackBerry have more incentives, and possibly offsetting some of those who opt for the another non-BlackBerry Android devices, in a Saturated Market .
    And the product sells, if selling device is your End goal.

    Posted via CB10
    Not possible because BlackBerry can not afford the programing costs involved for a new BB10 phone. Secondly, any new BB10 would have to make do with either an old runtime or no runtime.
    05-11-16 09:12 PM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Yes, for the PKB version I would pay that much. But I just got my Passport today so I will be sticking with BB10 for at least another year. Two if I'm lucky.

    I bought a couple Android phones this month and returned both of them. The problem with android isn't the OS (I thought Marshmallow was great) but finding a reliable manufacturer.

    One thing BlackBerry has in common with Apple is that they make the hardware. Outside of Nexus, Google is not much involved in hardware quality, and it really shows. I would trust a BlackBerry Android device before any of the other brands. I'm on my 6th BlackBerry phone now and I've had nothing but solid build quality.

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    My cheap Samsung A5 has been rock solid so far. What did you buy? The one advantage of a BlackBerry is that so far they seem committed to OS updates. Samsung is not ( unless you buy a flagship device).
    05-11-16 09:16 PM
  12. Polt's Avatar
    Nope, I've learned that I need to wait, I'll wait till the hardware department stabilizes, and for the price to drop under 300. Then if the phone is good enough, I'll buy one.

    The last time I've made a purchase with them, the OS development officially stopped 3 months after I bought the device. Which is a real pain in the a*s.
    05-11-16 09:21 PM
  13. toneytone's Avatar
    Not possible because BlackBerry can not afford the programing costs involved for a new BB10 phone. Secondly, any new BB10 would have to make do with either an old runtime or no runtime.
    If BlackBerry wants to continue there end to end security support a new BB10 device will have to surface at some point. My guess sometime in 2017.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    05-11-16 09:52 PM
  14. Bbnivende's Avatar
    J
    If BlackBerry wants to continue there end to end security support a new BB10 device will have to surface at some point. My guess sometime in 2017.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    There are not enough Enterprise customers to support the BB10 end to end solution. There never was. They brought out the Leap and Classic but not many in Enterprise bought. Sorry, you just have to face the facts. There has not been a shred of evidence or even rumours to support a BB10 resurgence.

    I would buy a $400-$500 cdn BlackBerry for either the PKB or the Hub, BB-VKB and updates over a simularly priced competitor.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 05-12-16 at 12:33 AM.
    05-11-16 10:06 PM
  15. sorinv's Avatar
    But the sad story is that android by BlackBerry sells even less than bb10 now.

    I wouldn't pay 5 dollars for an android phone by BlackBerry.
    In fact, even if you paid me, I wouldn't use android.

    How does BlackBerry pay for drivers for QNX? Or is QNX dead, too?

    I absolutely do not understand the misinformation spread around these forums about the cost of developing drivers for various Qualcomm chips when BlackBerry is wasting far more resources to write apps for android that fewer than 500k people have downloaded...
    05-12-16 12:25 AM
  16. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Actually BlackBerry runs a pretty clean Android. Chen used to say that he needed to sell about 10 million BB10 units just to break even. Running Android is so much cheaper that I think that the break even point may be half of that or less. I think that a reasonably priced all touch and PKB have the potential to keep BlackBerry in the phone business.

    I run BlackBerry 10 , iOS and Android. A phone OS is just a means to an end - an app launcher.
    TgeekB likes this.
    05-12-16 12:51 AM
  17. medic22003's Avatar
    While I still prefer bb10, I'm fine with my priv and BlackBerry does do a good job with android. The main thing I hate about android is Google. I like the user experience of bb10 much better but BlackBerry android ain't bad. The BlackBerry vkb and pkb have made it to where I don't dread typing on my android phone. It ain't been hacked yet, because if it had been you know we'd have heard about it to no end. I like that too. I'm relatively new to BlackBerry a z10 having been my first experience. The build quality on the 4 z10 and 2 z30 between me my mom and my kids have been rock solid. So far my priv is seeming that way too. So while I won't need a phone I hope by the time the mid range ones come out, I would buy one without hesitation if I needed to. BlackBerry just builds a great phone

    Posted with my shiny new Priv
    05-12-16 02:02 AM
  18. Originalloverman's Avatar
    No!

    Send from the power of the force and the  Passport
    05-12-16 10:38 AM
  19. kvndoom's Avatar
    My cheap Samsung A5 has been rock solid so far. What did you buy? The one advantage of a BlackBerry is that so far they seem committed to OS updates. Samsung is not ( unless you buy a flagship device).
    Since you asked…

    One of these days I am going to learn better and read ownership forums instead of reviews. Android itself is fine, but the FRAGMENTATION, the lack of consistency between manufacturers (and even devices from the same manufacturer), is maddening. As even you said, you can’t expect updates from Samsung unless you buy a flagship.

    LG G3- I really wanted that one to work. Yeah it’s a little old, but the hardware is capable and the Marshmallow update is out for it (at least for some). Plus it was brand spanking new for less than $200. But I couldn’t get it to update. I tried LG PC Suite and the Mobile Device software, and only got error messages. I spent hours looking for a solution and found none that worked. My computer saw the phone just fine, but LG’s own software didn’t. But the more I read, the more I realized that it was a long term gamble anyway. Screen failures (going black and not ever lighting up again) were VERY common with the G3. Even if I had gotten it to update to MM, I wasn’t about to keep something as hit or miss as that phone. Back it went.

    Then I bought a Moto X Pure 2015. Fast, responsive, already has Marshmallow installed. From reading the reviews you’d think the gods themselves bestowed this phone upon us unworthy mortals. It’s a great phone, MOSTLY, but the little things are what drove me nuts. For one, “ascending notification volume”… this has got to be the single most STUPID feature anyone could put in a modern cell phone! I could barely hear an email/text notification when the phone was sitting right in front of me. That was bad enough. The icing on the cake was the strength of the antenna, especially compared to my Classic. The building I work in is thick concrete and steel, and I generally get no signal at all in most areas. But I have found “sweet spots” where I can go and get good reception, and I periodically venture to those spots. With the Moto, literally not one of those spots got any signal at all. And this phone has all the same LTE bands as the Classic, and then some. And yet I had to either stand right up at the main entrance door or go outside altogether. Ridiculous. Back it went.

    “Just buy an iphone” my fiancée said. She has a point. I could just keep buying and returning Android phones until I finally found the right one (which could be never), or just get a known value. Problem is, I need a large screen, and the price of admission for a larger iphone is just too high. And I stepped back and assessed my needs for a phone. Email, music, internet, texting, calls. Most of the apps I had downloaded for Android were to bring it to the level of customization my Classic had (and what’s scary is that BB10 has FAR LESS customization than BB7 did). When I’m not at work, I have a PC and an ipad (and a Roku) for games and Netflix and all that good stuff. But when I’m out and about, I need a communication device first and foremost. I need to be able to hear it, I need to be able to get a signal at least periodically, I need to be able to count on it working as it should. Needless to say, Blackberry put the Passport on sale at the perfect time.

    I really do like how Android has matured and I would have no problem owning a Marshmallow phone, so long as the device itself was worth a damn. But I don’t have time to keep playing the “buy and return” game.
    Uzi, raves68, ppeters914 and 1 others like this.
    05-12-16 01:19 PM
  20. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Since you asked…

    One of these days I am going to learn better and read ownership forums instead of reviews. Android itself is fine, but the FRAGMENTATION, the lack of consistency between manufacturers (and even devices from the same manufacturer), is maddening. As even you said, you can’t expect updates from Samsung unless you buy a flagship.

    LG G3- I really wanted that one to work. Yeah it’s a little old, but the hardware is capable and the Marshmallow update is out for it (at least for some). Plus it was brand spanking new for less than $200. But I couldn’t get it to update. I tried LG PC Suite and the Mobile Device software, and only got error messages. I spent hours looking for a solution and found none that worked. My computer saw the phone just fine, but LG’s own software didn’t. But the more I read, the more I realized that it was a long term gamble anyway. Screen failures (going black and not ever lighting up again) were VERY common with the G3. Even if I had gotten it to update to MM, I wasn’t about to keep something as hit or miss as that phone. Back it went.

    Then I bought a Moto X Pure 2015. Fast, responsive, already has Marshmallow installed. From reading the reviews you’d think the gods themselves bestowed this phone upon us unworthy mortals. It’s a great phone, MOSTLY, but the little things are what drove me nuts. For one, “ascending notification volume”… this has got to be the single most STUPID feature anyone could put in a modern cell phone! I could barely hear an email/text notification when the phone was sitting right in front of me. That was bad enough. The icing on the cake was the strength of the antenna, especially compared to my Classic. The building I work in is thick concrete and steel, and I generally get no signal at all in most areas. But I have found “sweet spots” where I can go and get good reception, and I periodically venture to those spots. With the Moto, literally not one of those spots got any signal at all. And this phone has all the same LTE bands as the Classic, and then some. And yet I had to either stand right up at the main entrance door or go outside altogether. Ridiculous. Back it went.

    “Just buy an iphone” my fiancée said. She has a point. I could just keep buying and returning Android phones until I finally found the right one (which could be never), or just get a known value. Problem is, I need a large screen, and the price of admission for a larger iphone is just too high. And I stepped back and assessed my needs for a phone. Email, music, internet, texting, calls. Most of the apps I had downloaded for Android were to bring it to the level of customization my Classic had (and what’s scary is that BB10 has FAR LESS customization than BB7 did). When I’m not at work, I have a PC and an ipad (and a Roku) for games and Netflix and all that good stuff. But when I’m out and about, I need a communication device first and foremost. I need to be able to hear it, I need to be able to get a signal at least periodically, I need to be able to count on it working as it should. Needless to say, Blackberry put the Passport on sale at the perfect time.

    I really do like how Android has matured and I would have no problem owning a Marshmallow phone, so long as the device itself was worth a damn. But I don’t have time to keep playing the “buy and return” game.
    Thanks for taking the time to give me a very comprehensive report.
    05-12-16 01:26 PM
  21. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    On this thread, I observed a few points that lean to the Market Focus discussion. On one hand you have someone wondering if a $400 Price Point is doable. Then, those saying BlackBerry would have to offer more than the competition for them to feel comfortable spending the money for another BlackBerry .
    And then the view I most relate to, which is to maximize sales of any new device by offer it to the new users you're trying to attract in conjunction with those who have also requested the device. In this case; BlackBerry 10 users. An option to flash the device to either Operating System would allow one device to be manufactured satisfying both customers (for as long as the OS is being maintained). Given the freedom to choose, the consumer would simply buy the "hardware" offered, while selecting the desired software (while both would be BlackBerry variants) .
    Those customers that are interested in BlackBerry have more incentives, and possibly offsetting some of those who opt for the another non-BlackBerry Android devices, in a Saturated Market .
    And the product sells, if selling device is your End goal.

    Posted via CB10
    Keyword : drivers.
    Would cost a ton...

    Posted via CB10
    05-12-16 01:59 PM
  22. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Actually BlackBerry runs a pretty clean Android. Chen used to say that he needed to sell about 10 million BB10 units just to break even. Running Android is so much cheaper that I think that the break even point may be half of that or less. I think that a reasonably priced all touch and PKB have the potential to keep BlackBerry in the phone business.

    I run BlackBerry 10 , iOS and Android. A phone OS is just a means to an end - an app launcher.
    Chen's "profitable" number has been adjusting downward as cost have been cut. Last time he said 3 Million in sales with the ASP of about $315. But he has since hinted that their are other options for cutting cost and even raising ASP... looking like they are moving to a direct sales model.

    If the Android App development can be offloaded to software as it's own product line in Google Play. There might not be too much in-house Android development cost going on - rubber stamp the monthly updates, work on compatibility with the next version of Android... It's possible that 1.5 or 2 Million could be profitable. But we are talking about pretty generic devcies enterprise devcies that will have very limited appeal to those that want "the best".


    A few have mentioned End-To-End solutions... that's going to be these Android devcies.
    05-12-16 02:39 PM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I think there is a market for durable phones that do not appear and feel flimsy. A good camera , decent battery and reasonable on board memory.
    05-12-16 03:38 PM
  24. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    $400 is the new sweet spot. With the end of carrier subsidies, the public is looking for "good enough"

    The rise of the $400 smartphone?you want how much for a flagship? - Ars Technica
    05-12-16 04:21 PM
  25. bakron1's Avatar
    For me it's going to be about being value added, so now it's wait and see what they come up with and the price point.
    05-12-16 04:22 PM
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