1. officially_juju's Avatar
    I'm thinking of buying a Bold 9780 for only $50 as a backup on days I want that keyboard (Z10 owner now).
    I don't want to shell out much for a 9900 or Q10 so I thought this would be a nice , cheap nostalgic device to use from time to time.
    Question though... do you guys or would you guys use a legacy device still?
    I love BB10 and find my Z10 to be the best phone I have owned but I do miss the classic days from time to time. Lol.
    Anyways... just pondering!

    Posted via CB10
    03-06-14 03:14 AM
  2. OVOMustafa's Avatar
    I have had my 9900 for the past 2 years. I have a brand new Q10 which I only used for a week because I like the 9900 more.
    03-06-14 03:30 AM
  3. KDB84's Avatar
    I have a personal Z10 and a work-issued Curve 9360 - I have my work account set up on my Z10, I use the Curve for texting and calls only - and it's painful lol esp. when the trackpad stops working and I can't scroll and I have to reboot (which takes 17.5 hours - ok a few minutes but seems like hours).
    Spend 150 and get a Koodo Q5 as a backup for texting. . . that's what I'm thinking of doing. . .
    03-06-14 10:32 AM
  4. CrackberryQ's Avatar
    As a second device with a permanent line it would work, but as a back up device it won't since bb10 is running on regular Internet plan, whilst bb7 needs bis, and it's hard to switch accounts with carriers too and fro.

    I don't know if there are packages in the is that help with this issue but here it's impossible, unless u r paying for two plans on two different lines.

    Q10 Powered by 10.2.1.1925
    03-06-14 10:38 AM
  5. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    I've gone all touch with my personal devices (Z10 and Nexus 5) but use a 9900 for work. It's hard to beat a hardware keyboard for heavy text entry. I love the tactile feedback and the fact that I don't have to worry about autocorrect substituting the wrong word when banging out a long email or making site notes.
    03-06-14 10:43 AM
  6. opteron7's Avatar
    I have a flip phone as a back. I've had in the box for the couple years, hmm wonder if the battery is still good.


    Posted via CB10
    03-06-14 10:46 AM
  7. bernardogrady's Avatar
    I have a z10 now and use my 9900 as backup or when skiing, camping, on the boat etc. my z10 is on the plan I had for years for my 9900 and data works fine for both. Every time I switch back and forth there are things I miss from each, but all pretty minor. I'm thinking of getting a q10 as backup or a z30 and demoting the z10.
    03-06-14 10:48 AM
  8. OceanBerry's Avatar
    Yes! My 9810 on BBOS 7.1 will be my backup phone, especially for travel and mapping apps and BBM. Not for email, so I don't have to deal with BIS plans on different carriers & SIMs.

    This didn't start out to be a book, but I hope you and other readers find my experiences and app connectivity tests below useful.

    Very timely question. I just got a warranty replacement for my trusty old 9810 Torch slider (Z10's been primary since 10.1 last summer). The replacement came with the newer T-Mo BBOS 7.1.0.912, which is a huge improvement on 7.1.0.284 (TMO Bundle 998) on many apps for non-BIS connectivity as I describe below. I have had my SIM in the Torch for 4 days now and am enjoying it again. Without my 8 email accounts, it's decently fast and I don't get the dreaded delay clock.

    So I've decide to keep the Torch and use it for a backup phone for travel instead of selling it for very little. The Z10 will always be my primary, but the Torch is now viable again in case something happens to the Z. Both of them do free calls back to the US over T-Mobile WiFi calling, which is an amazing cost-saver.

    BBM Voice makes a nice WiFi intercom to home or co-workers, and doesn't need a SIM over WiFi.

    Several important map and travel-related apps now work over WiFi or non-BIS Mobile data on 7.1.0.912, making my Torch useful either with my T-Mo SIM, or with a non-BIS prepaid travel SIM like from Truphone.com.

    For your typing interest, here are my thoughts:

    Unless you have small nimble fingers, avoid the 9780 and the 9810 Torch and their small, stiff keys. I used them for 2 years each, and was never able to type fast with my big fingers.

    If you are seriously thinking about a 9810, you should try to find one and play with it and type on it before you spend money on it. The 9900, Q10 or Q5 might be much more satisfying.

    If you do buy one, check swappa.com. They don't always have BB devices, and the price might be a little higher than eBay, but they require clean IMEIs and working phones. I bought my Z10 on swappa and had a very good experience.

    I always hated having to push Alt key to get a period or comma on BB hard keyboards, so I really prefer the soft keyboard on the Z10 with built-in , and . But that's me.

    Other drawbacks to the 9780:

    After using the 9810 and Z10, to me the 9780's non-touch-screen navigation is too cumbersome and slow, the display is way too small, and the browser is quite slow.

    I don't think you'd enjoy it, especially after your Z10.

    Also the 9780 doesn't have much RAM by today's standards, limiting email capacity, app range, and inviting the Lag Clock. And you really need a BIS plan to do much on OS 6.x other than a couple of 3rd party apps, and for Push Notifications. So unless you have small, nimble fingers and great eyes, and don't mind dealing w-BIS, I wouldn't go with the 9780. Certainly don't try to move BIS mail between SIMs and carriers.


    Using your existing SIM with both a Z10 and a legacy device:

    As "bernardogrady" says above, a BIS plan _can_ support both legacy and BB 10 devices.

    On T-Mobile US anyway, a BIS plan costs the same as a non-BIS (Android-like) data plan for a Z10, and the BIS plan also will support full-speed HSPA+ and LTE on a BB10 device via the "fast.t-mobile.com" APN. I ran my Z10 like that for several months, and just turned BIS back on so I can use the 9810's Hotspot and a couple of apps that do expect BIS.


    9810 usability:
    I bought a 9810 two years ago to upgrade from the 9780's slowness and other limitations, and to get a bigger and brighter touchscreen than the 9900's, and willingly gave up the better keyboard for a little more screen area for browsing. I barely tolerated the small stiff keyboard which was about the same size as the 9780's, and even stiffer. The Torch is also a little harder to use one-handed than a 97xx (or 9900) due to the weight of the screen when extended, and it's hard to use overhead in bed. And the touchscreen is too small to type on unless you put it in the "reduced" dual-letter-per-key mode, and rely on the so-so auto-prediction. At 3.2 inches, the display is slightly smaller than the original iPhone size. It's just not a great compromise - mediocre at everything to me, stellar at nothing except notification flexibility. The browser is OK for rendering on most websites, but not very fast by today's standards. The BB 10 browser is miles ahead as the industry leader in HTML5 compatibility, and is so much faster.

    The best thing to me about BBOS is that you can really customize notification sounds for many different apps and message accounts and types, which is still not possible to the same level on BB10, though apparently close in 10.2.1 with add-on apps.

    The worst thing about BBOS is the lack of RAM and App Storage, and the Java architecture with slow garbage collection that interrupts everything else, unpredictably. This means that if you load up a legacy BB with a boatload of email accounts and a lot of apps like I did, so you could really get the benefit out of the differentiated Notifications, you were always waiting 30 seconds for the phone to un-freeze. I can't tell you how many times my 97xx's and 9810 were almost flung through closed windows due to lagginess. But I tend to push things to their limits. More reasonable users may have much better experiences for very targeted use cases. I understand that with a moderate load, a 9900 can be amazing if you love physical keys.

    The Z10 is such a welcome change for me, with predictable and snappy response, and is almost impossible to overload, even with over 100 browser tabs open, 8 apps running, and 7 email accounts + FB and LinkedIn. Go QNX!

    By contrast, if you push a legacy device beyond 60% of Flash or RAM capacity, you are asking for frustration, IMO. Adding an app like Bejoose that tries to clean RAM and Flash in the background can help some. I also like Memory Monster 1.2 by LSphone to manually clean Flash and RAM before or after doing something demanding. App World makes a mess out of memory, so it's good to clean up after it.

    BIS Email and switching carriers or SIMs on a legacy device:

    As "CrackberryQ" said above, it's a nightmare to switch carriers on a BIS/BES plan and move email accounts back and forth between SIMs on trips. I ruined a vacation once that way, and had to undo it all when I got home. EAS and IMAP on Z10 rule! SIM changes or WiFi just work!

    Here's my findings on apps now working on non-BIS connectivity
    (that is, using either regular mobile data with an APN, or WiFi)

    Environment:
    BB Torch 9810 on T-Mo BBOS 7.1.0.912, standard (non-BIS) Android/Z10 data plan.

    (Other carriers' provisioning and & builds may not work the same! See the forum thread about non-BIS usage on legacy devices. There's a lot of variability in what works without BIS)

    These travel-related apps now work on WiFi or regular mobile data for me:

    BBM 8.1.20:
    - on WiFi: all features, including BBM Voice over WiFi.
    Messages and calls come in quickly

    BBM on mobile data (no BIS plan):
    BBM messaging works, including Location Sharing,
    BBM Channels on Mobile Data work.
    (only BBM voice does't work - it's WiFi only on BBOS, but works on 3G/4G on BB10)

    BB Maps 6.2.0.22. Includes turn-by-turn route maps and instructions (no spoken directions)

    BlackBerry Travel 2.6.0.99. Not as useful without trip-scraping from inbound BIS/BES email.
    Does include some useful features like flight status, weather, search a city for restaurants, book a car or flight, currency conversions, world clock.

    Concur v8.1.4 (corporate travel booking & expenses - requires a company login)

    Endomondo Pro v8.6.3 (Exercise tracking & mapping, including a topographic map view)

    Fly Delta v1.7.4 - powerful tools, especially if you have a SkyMiles account

    Google Maps 4.5.3 (3 years old, and finally works on WiFi w/o carrier data!)
    You will have to Google to find a copy to download

    GPS Map Hospital Search using Google Free, v1.3 by RadicalAppz

    GPS Maps for Google Free v3.0 by Droid GPS Mobile Maps
    Simple, but useful, and includes Traffic overlay. Not very fast, and a little cumbersome.

    "Here" Maps in Browser (m.here.com, formerly Nokia Maps)
    Useful, but can crash the browser.
    It can also save a map area on-phone for off-line use! Nice when out of signal range.

    Tube Map for the London Underground v2.4.45
    (very useful! route planning, next train times, problems and planned service outages)

    Other Apps that work on WiFi or non-BIS mobile data with 7.1.0.912 (on my T-Mo 9810).
    Again, your results may vary depending on carrier & provisioning, device OS versions, and app versions.

    AP Mobile 3.5 (news) Wants to be connected to BBM very much.

    BB App World v4.3.0.32

    Blackberry Browser 7.1.0
    (must delete "BlackBerry Internet Browsing" Service Books if not on BIS mobile data.
    Go to Options -> Device -> Advance Settings -> Service Books, highlight the one you want, Menu -> Delete. You can also Undelete to restore them. They may come back overnight or after a reboot or re-registering on the mobile network). With BIS enabled, this gets you more efficient data usage, but slower, as your data will go through BB servers. Without those Service Book entries, your browser's data will go right out onto your carrier's network (APN must set in Devices -> Advanced Settings > TCP IP. Google for your carrier's APN settings.

    Facebook 4.2.0.10

    Line v2.0.25 Messenger by line.naver.jp, or line.me.
    Similar to BBM, with group chats, attach photos, etc.
    BBOS version lacks voice calls and most stickers that are on Android and iOS.
    Pretty secure protocol over the network. Servers in Japan and Korea.
    (no push notifications without BIS)
    If the app is open, you should get messages, but maybe not always alert tones.
    I'm not sure about over non-BIS mobile data, and can't test it easily right now.

    NetDania Forex v1.0.3 (real-time currency exchange rates)

    Shazam and Pandora already worked over either mobile APNs or WiFi.
    Shazam requires an APN override setting for non-BIS mobile data.

    Slacker Radio v4.1.24

    9810 Browsing performance:
    On 50Mbps Comcast-cable-powered WiFi, my Torch gets about 3-5Mbps downstream with testmy.net (HTTP browser-based speed test), though I've seen 11Mbps. On good T-Mobile HSPA+, I usually see 3-3.5Mbps downstream, but other devices connecting to the Torch's Mobile Hotspot while on HSPA+ can get up to about 8Mbps.

    For comparison, my Z10 gets 15-25Mbps on WiFi, 5-6 Mbps on HSPA+, and 10-25Mbps on T-Mo LTE.

    Legacy BB Sound quality:

    The 9700 is OK on calls & speakerphone, but not great.

    The 9810 is a little better, but the speaker phone, while adequately loud, is not super-clear. It's supposed to support HD Calling on T-Mobile, and also has slightly better audio quality over BBM Voice (wider frequency range CODE). Call quality is OK over a good headset. Microphone quality matters, and headsets with good ones are hard to find.

    The Noisehush NX70 headset is good for home or travel - one earpiece, over the head, boom mic, very clear sound, not expensive, and no batteries required.

    The Z10 by comparison has been great for me on audio call quality, over the mobile network or WiFi calling. The speakerphone is wonderful! Sounds like the other person is in the room. Skype over 3G/4G or WiFi, or other HD VoiP like Truphone over WiFi, has amazingly good sound quality. The Z30 is supposed to be even better, but I haven't heard one.

    Music listening:
    To me, music playback quality on either speaker or the headset jack on a 97xx or 98xx are muffled and muddy. The speaker has some distortion. Through the headset jack, from an audiophile perspective they have limited high frequencies, poor stereo separation, and a poor soundstage, even with a very good set of headphones or earbuds. I have used the Torch on Pandora for many enjoyable hours, but the Torch doesn't reveal nearly all the music.

    My 9780 and 9810 sounded much worse than the excellent headset jack sound quality on a BB 10 series with a Qualcomm chipset, or a newer Samsung Galaxy S3 or S4, HTC One X or One with Qualcomm chips, or almost any iPhone.

    My Z10 STL-100-3 through $150 Yamaha EPH-100 earbuds sounds very good on Pandora, and sounds great, especially with high-resolution music files, through the Neutron Player for BB10. It's as good as any phone or MP3 player I've listened too, and equal to or better than most modern devices. The Z10 has little crisper highs than the HTC One X (US AT&T LTE version with Qualcomm), which is my 2nd favorite and might be a little smoother, but is lacking a little detail.

    I can't speak to the audio playback quality on the TI OMAP-equipped Z10 STL-100-1, and I've never listened to music on a Z30 or Q10.

    Recommended music earbuds: Yamaha EPH-100 (no inline mic)
    Yamaha EPH-100 Earphones at zZounds
    Good balanced full frequency range, not bass-heavy but not weak either.
    Crisp and natural bass, impressive if it's in the source material.
    Clear and smooth mids and high frequencies; never hurts your ears.
    Never any harshness like the Klipsch S4 has on distorted or overly-bright music.
    Excellent soundstage (position of instruments left-to-right across the field of sound).
    Physically comfortable for hours (worn deep in your ear canals).
    Don't fatigue your ears after long listening.
    Durable cables, reliable with no issues in 2 years of ownership.
    If you don't love the provided 4 sizes of eartips, try Comply foam tips.

    Good luck and have fun!
    03-08-14 12:50 PM
  9. thurask's Avatar
    If I needed or wanted a backup phone, I still have my old Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    OceanBerry likes this.
    03-08-14 12:52 PM
  10. deercreekmichael's Avatar
    I'm thinking of buying a Bold 9780 for only $50 as a backup on days I want that keyboard (Z10 owner now).
    I don't want to shell out much for a 9900 or Q10 so I thought this would be a nice , cheap nostalgic device to use from time to time.
    I have both the 9780 and 9900 and switch to these whenever I need a qwerty fix.

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10
    03-08-14 01:08 PM
  11. BerryRipe's Avatar
    I have my 9930 as a backup phone or just another device to mess around with especially when I start to miss the trackpad. My only concern is how do I use it as a backup, I'm on Verizon and my current phone is a Q10.

    Keep The Faith ? BlackBerry Q10 ?
    03-11-14 02:02 AM
  12. eldricho's Avatar
    My trusty, 5 year old 8520!
    Use it as a backup mp3 player for when I'm going to be away from a charger for a while, but still need my music and also to check Twitter, Facebook and such if my Z10 happens to die on me and there is a wifi source near

    Posted via CB10
    03-11-14 02:17 AM
  13. deercreekmichael's Avatar
    I have my 9930 as a backup phone or just another device to mess around with especially when I start to miss the trackpad. My only concern is how do I use it as a backup, I'm on Verizon and my current phone is a Q10.

    Keep The Faith ? BlackBerry Q10 ?
    Just centre the sim card in the sim slot. It takes some practice but eventually you will know how to best position it.

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10
    03-11-14 08:11 AM

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