1. blackberryto's Avatar
    Obviously BlackBerry has its issues at the moment, but I think what is completely ridiculous is that Microsoft is paying around $8 billion for Nokia's money-losing phone business and a license to Nokia's patents and Fairfax is getting the entire BlackBerry company for around $2 billion when you net out the cash. There have been very few honest articles about that fact amongst the epitaphs written for BlackBerry. The article below is the closest I've seen and comes from GigaOM of all places. I think the fact that private equity in the US is staying away from this deal also speaks volumes about the stench around BlackBerry created by the media as this would typically be a no-brainer deal for private equity, especially when compared to the Dell deal. In any event, unfair to shareholders, but good for Fairfax and certainly good for Canada to keep this company on home turf.

    Nokia deal still irks Microsoft watchers who ask why pay so much for so little? — Tech News and Analysis
    09-28-13 10:48 AM
  2. Djlatino's Avatar
    I'm gunna be the first to say that it's sad that BB10 is only at a height where they can only compare themselves to Window Phones :/
    amazinglygraceless likes this.
    09-28-13 11:54 AM
  3. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Has it not occurred to you that US private equity is staying out of the bidding for BlackBerry because (a) Prem Watsa wants to keep BlackBerry a completely Canadian concern and therefore is not courting funding sources outside of Canada's borders and (b) with the amount that would need to be raised adding American funding would trigger a review from the Canadian government and therefore slow the process down more than it needs to be?

    The media conspiracies and the constant attempts to make the United States look like a bad guy here are truly head in the sand rationalizations.
    Poirots Progeny likes this.
    09-28-13 12:29 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Despite Nokia's issues, Nokia unit sales have been steadily GROWING, quarter after quarter. Part of the price that anyone will pay for a company is going to be based on growth potential.

    BB's numbers have been steadily DECLINING, quarter after quarter. You simply can't compare that to Nokia.

    Also, I believe that the patents that Microsoft acquired and licensed from Nokia would generally be considered more valuable in the current market than those that BB has, so that's another factor in the higher price.

    There's one more issue that can't be avoided: Nokia had essentially become Microsoft's WinPhone OEM, and despite the growing numbers of WP8 sales, Nokia's phone division was still struggling, and there was a real risk that Nokia would have adopted Android, at least as a secondary product line, once MS's contract expired. They might have even dropped WP support. MS simply couldn't have allowed that, so in effect, they were forced to buy Nokia's phone division to assure that WP8 would have manufacturing and design stability going forward. Note that this stability is also important for SALES, because customer perception is very different for a product whose company is doing poorly, vs. one that is doing well and has tons of resources at its disposal. MS *needs* WP8 phones to be viewed as a stable product with no danger of losing future support, and now they have that.

    That very issue is negatively affecting BB in a big way right now, and MS clearly didn't want that happening to WP.
    09-28-13 01:47 PM
  5. texazzpete's Avatar
    Obviously BlackBerry has its issues at the moment, but I think what is completely ridiculous is that Microsoft is paying around $8 billion for Nokia's money-losing phone business and a license to Nokia's patents and Fairfax is getting the entire BlackBerry company for around $2 billion when you net out the cash. There have been very few honest articles about that fact amongst the epitaphs written for BlackBerry. The article below is the closest I've seen and comes from GigaOM of all places. I think the fact that private equity in the US is staying away from this deal also speaks volumes about the stench around BlackBerry created by the media as this would typically be a no-brainer deal for private equity, especially when compared to the Dell deal. In any event, unfair to shareholders, but good for Fairfax and certainly good for Canada to keep this company on home turf.

    Nokia deal still irks Microsoft watchers who ask why pay so much for so little? — Tech News and Analysis
    The truth?

    Nokia Hardware Team >>>>>>>>> BlackBerry Team
    Nokia Patents >>>> BlackBerry patents

    Also, Microsoft's mobile future NEEDS Nokia. Nokia WP devices makes up 80%+ of Windows Phones out there.
    Right now, nobody NEEDS BlackBerry.

    That GigaOM article is beyond dire, and the former Microsoft exec quoted must be incredibly daft. Microsoft has retooled and revamped their entire structure to achieve their 'One Windows' goal...with multiple devices running the same Windows kernel (Xbox, Tablet, Phone, Desktop). They are making great progress in that direction. Now this dolt wanted them to throw out their Windows 8 kernel based OS and switch to BB10 QNX?

    LMAO!

    Microsoft's hardware partners are either disinterested (Samsung, Huawei) or failing (HTC). They desperately needed a hardware team. Nokia's team are one of the best at the game. Good deal.

    Buying Blackberry instead of Nokia would bring in a horde of engineers and programmers who have zero experience with WP. That would be the worst choice, by far.

    There's a pretty decent case for buying BlackBerry along with Nokia. BBM could be incredibly valuable, perhaps rolled in with Skype for a perfect messaging experience. BB patents are also pretty good. Enterprise marketshare helps too. Of course they'd kill off BB10 in a jiffy, but after harvesting good bits like the Hub notification center and the virtual Keyboard.
    Poirots Progeny, JeepBB and Etios like this.
    09-28-13 02:34 PM
  6. texazzpete's Avatar
    I think the fact that private equity in the US is staying away from this deal also speaks volumes about the stench around BlackBerry created by the media as this would typically be a no-brainer deal for private equity, especially when compared to the Dell deal.
    If you truly think companies base their acquisition strategy on 'media stench', I have nothing to say to you.
    Careful studies have been made. BB10 flopping is a known fact and not 'stench around BlackBerry created by the media'. Chances of monetizing BBM successfully are a big uncertainty. What is known to anyone who cares to do a study (e.g Not the typical rose tinted CrackBerry sheep) is that cross-platform BBM will pretty much destroy sales of legacy BlackBerry devices in emerging countries. Enterprise erosion from BYOD is a reality. Patents are not nearly as valuable as was once thought since the patent wars have left the public weary...and the failed attempt by Google to weaponize Motorola's patent arsenal against Apple and MS.
    BB10 fits in nobody's plan now. Samsung has Tizen. MS cannot ditch their Win 8 kernel based WP for QNX. Apple is all in for iOS. Google has its hands full with Android and ChromeOS. Amazon has its Android fork and has developers committed to the platform.

    So please, stay away from bug-eyed claims of 'media created stench'. There are positives to buying BlackBerry but there are a whole lot of negatives which will make many buyers pause. The constant string of losses Google was hit with with their purchase of Motorola is a sobering reminder. HP's purchase of Palm is another.
    09-28-13 02:44 PM
  7. blackberryto's Avatar
    I actually think Fairfax would love to have a US PE firm as part of the consortium as it might help to give the new BlackBerry some legitimacy in the crucial US market. And you know these conversations have happened because of all of the articles talking about how US PE has no interest. As long as their equity interest is kept below 50%, it would not need need Investment Canada Act approval and would not slow down the process. As far as some of the other comments questioning why a PE firm would allow media to impact their decision-making, remember they have investors to answer to, and why do a deal that would be so publicly-maligned even if you think it would be a good deal. That is why I mention the Dell PE deal - they also have shrinking sales, but even worse in a business that seems to be dieing and no mobile strategy to speak of. Yes, they have other business lines like cloud, but they are small potatoes compared to their PC business. But yet US PE is throwing their money in the ring there. And ultimately going back to the point of the article I posted - what is MSFT really paying for in buying Nokia's phone business? Everybody agrees that Blackberry's phone business has no value, so why would you place any value on Nokia's phone business. To the extent they are growing sales, it is in low-end devices with no margin - MSFT can do that themselves without Nokia. And could they really be worried that Nokia would move away from Windows phone and throw its hat in the ring with Android and try and compete with Samsung - unlikely. Bottomline, the article is bang on, Microsoft buying Nokia makes no sense, certainly not at the price they are paying. On the flipside, at the current price they would have paid for BlackBerry, there would have been a ton of value for MSFT. Doesn't mean they would need to abandon Windows phone, but it would have given them a much bigger footprint in enterprise mobile than they have today - that alone would have been worth the net $2 billion. So no I am not trying to play up a media conspiracy or make the US look like the bad guy - there is no question, BlackBerry has made their own bed here. But in business, nothing is ever black and white, there is always shades of grey.
    09-29-13 05:39 AM
  8. rohetaku's Avatar
    Paragraphs!

    Posted via CB10
    09-29-13 05:44 AM

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