03-22-14 07:09 AM
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  1. Gesig Boek's Avatar
    Again you clearly have no idea what your talking about.

    Q4'12= 26.9 million iPhones
    Q4'13= 33.8 million iPhones
    Q1'14= 51 million iPhones

    As for the iPhone 5c estimates are ranging from between 12.5 to 18 million sold last quarter. If you think that is a failure than I'm afraid you should stop commenting on technology offering your opinion as fact and slowly back away, I repeat slowly back away.

    Here's hoping Chen can chip away at that market with the z3.
    Windows Phone sales actually declining, fast: BlackBerry back in top 3 soon?-idc.png

    You are a bit condescending for some-one so wrong. When I said market share I obviously referred to percentage of the sales in the market, which is what market share is.

    BTW, how did you get Q1 2014 numbers when the quarter is not over yet?
    03-17-14 03:32 PM
  2. Gesig Boek's Avatar
    I am condescending, kudos for noticing, I would explain the difference between sell in and sell through but I'm sure it would be out of your realm of understanding.
    Windows Phone sales actually declining, fast: BlackBerry back in top 3 soon?-argue.jpg
    03-17-14 04:01 PM
  3. Jas00555's Avatar
    Why is this even an argument? Let alone a 100+ reply thread. The OP left out half of the market for Windows Phone, so of course it would appear as declining sales. Everyone has universally reported that activations (as in, consumers buying the phone) have gone up QoQ, to the point that Windows Phone has a 50 million person user base. Why is that so hard to believe?

    Sent from my RM-821_eu_france_267 using Tapatalk
    03-17-14 09:14 PM
  4. neo158's Avatar
    Yes.
    Jakarta will eat its lunch.
    Actually the 52x range is being replaced by the 53x range so it's not being dropped.
    03-19-14 02:21 PM
  5. iN8ter's Avatar
    This is not good news for WP. They are declining in many first world markets.

    The Lumia 9xx/10xx lines are the higher margin "prestige" devices they really would like to sell (not the low margin 'value' lines like the 5xx line and X lines). The X line, for instance, is targeted as a phone that is "somewhat better than a feature phone". It's a very low spec, simple device. The active tiles on the Nokia X homescreen *dont even update*... they always remain static and fixed with the same graphic...

    BlackBerry may be going down the same road. (re: Z3)

    But come on people... the decline in WP's first-world flagship sales in the US is definitely not good.

    Also, the upside for BlackBerry is that, clearly, there is a market for phones that have limited application ecosystems.

    BlackBerry and WP are in very similar boats when it comes to apps.

    And then BlackBerry has the Android card as well. My GF has a WP with native Instagram but it doesn't even have Instagram Direct. I only found out about this after I sent her Instagram direct videos from my Z10 and she said she never got them. There is no ETA for 'direct' on WP-Instagram.

    WP native Instagram is NO WHERE NEAR as good as BlackBerry 'ported' Instagram. Same goes for many other 'native' WP apps (like tumblr for instance).

    WP may have more native apps from big devs, but it is clear that WP is LAST on their priority list and devs (more often than not) develop mediocre versions with missing features for WP. It seems like they develop versions with "just enough" functionality for them to say "we support WP". But the experience is often (read: usually) very lacking in features.

    Posted via CB10
    I thought the Nokia X was Android-based and not Windows Phone...

    Nokia X products - Nokia

    What does the Nokia X have to do with Windows Phone marketshare?
    03-19-14 02:28 PM
  6. iN8ter's Avatar
    Because my point had to do with the incorrect notion that WP has better "native" support from developers, when the fact is that the "native" support from the original developers is largely the same as it is on BB10 (e.g: 3rd party versions are often better than what the original devs make available). The native support lags far behind the indepenedent third party "grass roots" support for the platform. The original developers put up versions that are just barely adequate.

    Tell me what else I am incorrect about. Does the Nokia X line actually have cutting edge specs? How much SSD storage do they have? How much RAM do they have? Does native WP Instagram have every feature that the iOS and Android versions have? What features is native WP Instagram missing? Does it support Instagram Direct?

    Is it GOOD that the Lumia 9xx and 10xx lines are dropping in sales? Do the Nokia X phones have dynamically updated tiles? How many apps are on the Nokia X phone app store?

    I may sound like a WP hater, but I'm truly not. But let's all live in the real world here folks. I'm just stating facts.

    And FYI: I'm not gonna say BB10 is doing amazing in the market either. I wish it was, but the reality is, there is a long way to go before BB10 makes a comeback in the consumer space. That is the reality.

    Aside: My GF has a Lumia 920. It is really the best phone for her. She hates cases and is ridiculously clumsy with her electronics. But her Lumia is literally indestructable. She;s dropped it on concrete, tile, and down cement stairs and it still works perfectly without a single crack. It's pretty amazing. So please don't suggest I don't appreciate the WP platform and hardware.
    That's categorically untrue.

    People are asking if Facebook Messenger is on BB10 on these forums. It's on Windows Phone.

    Isn't Instagram already on Windows Phone these days? Most Skype enhancements are firmly targeted at non-Blackberry platforms.

    A lot of other firms have pretty much given up on Blackberry, while many others are getting into Windows 8.1 (Metro) and Windows Phone development with popular products.

    There are a lot of reputable companies porting to Windows Phone with no word on Blackberry 10. The new Angry Birds game is going to Android, iOS, and Windows Phone. No word on Blackberry 10.

    There are a lot of instances where this is the case.

    It simply isn't true that Windows Phone has equivalent developer traction to Blackberry 10. It's clearly ahead in that regard.
    03-19-14 02:33 PM
  7. iN8ter's Avatar
    US hasn't been the largest smartphone market in the world for a while now... https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rc...2f0yPZJYCyQeDA
    US is the largest affluent smartphone market in the world. Meaning, unless you have a bunch of cheaper models you're dead there because you aren't going to match the volume of flagship device sales in the US with the China market despite there being significantly more people.

    Most phones sold there are budget models.

    Yes, the specs may sound hot but when you look at the components (those crappy MediaTek SoCs, etc.) the phones are rather mid-range even at the higher end in most cases.

    And since the people there don't have as much disposable income, don't count on them showing up year after year to upgrade a $600-750 device. They will do that for $200 phones, but not for the ones that are breaking Sales records here.

    While Nokia is setting records with the 520 series in those types of markets, Apple and Samsung are setting records with high end flagships that yield much higher margins (if any at all).

    China is only important because you can make cheap devices and sale in huge volume there, provided you aren't severely undercut by thieving Chinese OEMs (who can clone your designs in days and sell them for less than half the cost).
    mnc76 likes this.
    03-19-14 02:53 PM
  8. iN8ter's Avatar
    Yeah, total US sales. Windows Phone is doing much better outside the US which is something that chart isn't taking into account. The 52x range will end up being replaced at some point but not right now, which means that the very, VERY minor drop is likely due to imminent release of WP8.1 with both users holding off on upgrading and carriers holding off on new phones until it's released.
    Yea, even Samsung has an Ativ SE which is basically a Galaxy S4 with Winodws 8.1 waiting for the Windows 8.1 release. It's going to Verizon Wireless, IIRC.

    If they bring their Camera Software and Features over to Windows Phone from Android, I may have to give it a go, as a secondary device (assuming the camera is as good as the S4's shooter, I expect the optics to be identical).
    neo158 likes this.
    03-19-14 03:02 PM
  9. mnc76's Avatar
    That's categorically untrue.

    People are asking if Facebook Messenger is on BB10 on these forums. It's on Windows Phone.

    Isn't Instagram already on Windows Phone these days? Most Skype enhancements are firmly targeted at non-Blackberry platforms.

    A lot of other firms have pretty much given up on Blackberry, while many others are getting into Windows 8.1 (Metro) and Windows Phone development with popular products.

    There are a lot of reputable companies porting to Windows Phone with no word on Blackberry 10. The new Angry Birds game is going to Android, iOS, and Windows Phone. No word on Blackberry 10.

    There are a lot of instances where this is the case.

    It simply isn't true that Windows Phone has equivalent developer traction to Blackberry 10. It's clearly ahead in that regard.
    It doesn't appear that you read my post.

    Yes WP has Instagram but it is a feature-crippled version with no ETA on when it will get all the features that are available on iOS and Android.

    WP versions of major apps typically lag way behind in features compared to the versions on iOS and Android. Igrann on BB10 is even better than the *official* WP version of Instagram.

    As for the Nokia X phone. Of course it is based on Android but the user interface is clearly meant to be an ultra low-cost (simplified-feature version) of version of WP.

    Windows Phone sales actually declining, fast: BlackBerry back in top 3 soon?-nokia-x-android-smartphone.jpg


    Windows Phone sales actually declining, fast: BlackBerry back in top 3 soon?-wp-ss-20121028-0003.png

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-14 02:16 AM
  10. mnc76's Avatar
    It's a little difficult to tell which of the images above is the WP and which is the X phone. They have the same design language.

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-14 02:18 AM
  11. mnc76's Avatar
    From The Verge:
    "If you put the Nokia X side-by-side with the company's Lumia 520 handset it might be hard to tell them apart...

    Using the X software can be quite frustrating, however, as the entire interface is prone to slow response and a lot of lag. Closing or switching between apps on the X takes far longer than other, even entry-level, smartphones, and browsing the web will quickly test your patience. "

    http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/2/24...phone-hands-on

    ---

    Essentially, the X phones are "ultra low-cost Windows Phone-like smartphones for the feature-phone market".

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-14 02:41 AM
  12. mnc76's Avatar
    Lumia 520 and Nokia X :


    Windows Phone sales actually declining, fast: BlackBerry back in top 3 soon?-520.jpg


    Windows Phone sales actually declining, fast: BlackBerry back in top 3 soon?-250.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-14 02:53 AM
  13. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    US is the largest affluent smartphone market in the world. Meaning, unless you have a bunch of cheaper models you're dead there because you aren't going to match the volume of flagship device sales in the US with the China market despite there being significantly more people.

    Most phones sold there are budget models.

    Yes, the specs may sound hot but when you look at the components (those crappy MediaTek SoCs, etc.) the phones are rather mid-range even at the higher end in most cases.

    And since the people there don't have as much disposable income, don't count on them showing up year after year to upgrade a $600-750 device. They will do that for $200 phones, but not for the ones that are breaking Sales records here.

    While Nokia is setting records with the 520 series in those types of markets, Apple and Samsung are setting records with high end flagships that yield much higher margins (if any at all).

    China is only important because you can make cheap devices and sale in huge volume there, provided you aren't severely undercut by thieving Chinese OEMs (who can clone your designs in days and sell them for less than half the cost).
    At least the population in China equals approx. 270M US-Americans from a purchasing power standpoint. It isn't that far off.
    03-20-14 06:43 AM
  14. jay64's Avatar
    Attachment 255109

    According to some of my research, from noteworthy sources, Windows Phone sales are on a decline, that is excluding the Lumia 520/521. Sales declining about 800,000 units per quarter. If this trend continues, BlackBerry could be back in the Top 3 platforms quite soon, especially if the BlackBerry Z3 sells at least as good as the Lumia 520/521 and the Nokia X/X+/XL takes some sales away from the Lumia 520/521.
    Mobile Operating Systems - Readers' Choice Awards 2013: Smartphones and Mobile Carriers | PCMag.com
    03-20-14 05:30 PM
  15. iN8ter's Avatar
    It doesn't appear that you read my post.

    Yes WP has Instagram but it is a feature-crippled version with no ETA on when it will get all the features that are available on iOS and Android.

    WP versions of major apps typically lag way behind in features compared to the versions on iOS and Android. Igrann on BB10 is even better than the *official* WP version of Instagram.

    As for the Nokia X phone. Of course it is based on Android but the user interface is clearly meant to be an ultra low-cost (simplified-feature version) of version of WP.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Posted via CB10
    Instagram at least put some developer resources into Windows Phone.

    They have done Nothing, ZILCH, NADA for Blackberry 10. I think you're missing that important point.

    Path has developed for Windows Phone. Facebook Messenger is now on Windows Phone - yes, missing some features. Feature Disparity is common, even expected, when moving form one platform to another. Did you know that there is feature disparity between Instagram's iOS and Android clients? Did you know there is feature disparity between the Hangouts app on iOS and Android (in iOS' favor!). This is all common, so you have - literally - no basis for forming the odd and ridiculous faux facts you're peddling here.

    Secondly: Please learn the difference between an Operating System and a Design Language/UX/Design Philosophy.

    Metro is not an OS. It's a design philosophy, which even iOS and Google have borrowed from in their app UXes in multiple places. This is no different than Samsung making Tizen look like their Andorid phone user experiences. That doesn't mean that Tizen is meant to be a cheaper Android or whatever. It means the company wants to maintain a relatively similar design language/philosophy across their products. Nokia X phones are entry level devices. If you upgrade to a higher end Nokia device, it will run Windows Phone and they don't want their users to be hung out to dry as far as the general use of the device is concerned.

    They want to minimize confusion and differentiate their device.

    I don't see what the issue is, or how you can come to the - again, odd and ridiculous - conclusions you have arrived in.

    I've read your post. It makes little to no sense.
    03-21-14 10:24 AM
  16. iN8ter's Avatar
    At least the population in China equals approx. 270M US-Americans from a purchasing power standpoint. It isn't that far off.
    They are purchasing the cheapest devices the OEMs are producing, so you're not drawing an equivalent situation. When one US person buys a new iPhone it is equivalent to multiple CHN customers buying a new budget phone.

    That's why markets like the US are so important to OEMs.

    China is also important as it allows them to profit by proliferating cheaper devices in high volumes. Markets like India, etc. are also very important for the same reasons. Also, even on cheap devices, the OEMs can still profit from the sales of services and advertising revenue in some cases.
    03-21-14 10:27 AM
  17. mnc76's Avatar
    Instagram at least put some developer resources into Windows Phone.

    They have done Nothing, ZILCH, NADA for Blackberry 10. I think you're missing that important point.

    Path has developed for Windows Phone. Facebook Messenger is now on Windows Phone - yes, missing some features. Feature Disparity is common, even expected, when moving form one platform to another. Did you know that there is feature disparity between Instagram's iOS and Android clients? Did you know there is feature disparity between the Hangouts app on iOS and Android (in iOS' favor!). This is all common, so you have - literally - no basis for forming the odd and ridiculous faux facts you're peddling here.

    Secondly: Please learn the difference between an Operating System and a Design Language/UX/Design Philosophy.

    Metro is not an OS. It's a design philosophy, which even iOS and Google have borrowed from in their app UXes in multiple places. This is no different than Samsung making Tizen look like their Andorid phone user experiences. That doesn't mean that Tizen is meant to be a cheaper Android or whatever. It means the company wants to maintain a relatively similar design language/philosophy across their products. Nokia X phones are entry level devices. If you upgrade to a higher end Nokia device, it will run Windows Phone and they don't want their users to be hung out to dry as far as the general use of the device is concerned.

    They want to minimize confusion and differentiate their device.

    I don't see what the issue is, or how you can come to the - again, odd and ridiculous - conclusions you have arrived in.

    I've read your post. It makes little to no sense.
    Everything I previously wrote still stands:

    1. The fact that WP's flagship sales are declining is not good. I don't see how one could argue that.

    2. Nokia X is an Android based phone that is meant to be "Windows Phone for the feature phone market". It's not Windows Phone, but it designed to look and behave like a simplied/bare-bones version of WP. The similarities go from the UI down to the phone hardware design itself (which looks almost indistinguishable from the 520).
    I don't see how one could argue that.

    3. "Feature Disparity is common, even expected, when moving form one platform to another. "
    - Sure feature disparity is common. But just because it's common doesn't make the fact that, an app like WP Instagram is still missing 'Direct', any more palatable for WP users (who clearly want the same Instagram experience their friends have).

    It doesn't make it a good thing that, even today, Instagram for WP is still in beta. All that matters is that it IS. And examples like this subtract greatly from the "WP has more original-developer app support" argument.
    The fact is that support is often there. But its very often barely there.
    Don't see how one could argue that.


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by mnc76; 03-22-14 at 07:20 AM.
    03-22-14 07:09 AM
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