03-22-14 07:09 AM
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  1. sati01's Avatar
    So now you're changing your argument from the Lumia 520 and XL have "similar" specs to consumer don't care about lower specs?

    Like the formerly pervasive argument on Crackberry that the Z10 would sell tens of millions despite a last gen processor? And that Blackberry could use as outdated specs as it pleases in its phones and still sell blockbusters? Except now you're flipping the "specs don't matter" argument around from "Blackberry will outsell iPhone!" to "This is how Windows Phone is going to meet its watery grave"?
    The average consumer can understand 1 core, 2 cores, 4 cores, but they can't understand details about the ARM SOC architecture.

    Now saying WP's life is in danger is pure Bullcrap. Microsoft invested A LOT in getting apps for WP. There's no way in hell they'll stop development. The may have made WP free but doesn't mean jack**** about no interest in the OS for MS. It only means it's getting WP to more devices. Also judging by the fact WP's specs requirements have been reduced I'm sure they'll price a phone with the same price as the Nokia X. It's MS anyway. Also how can you say that MS is happy with the Nokia X even when Joe Belford himself he isn't happy with the device. The online division maybe but the Windows/WP division no way
    I'm not saying that Microsoft will stop the development, the consumer will switch to the Nokia X and other alternatives. 1 million in four days!! not even in the best dreams of the biggest WP fanboys you could find that kind success.
    03-14-14 08:41 PM
  2. jefbeard911's Avatar
    ... but people that buy these phones for $100-$200 don't have that knowledge, so It's not a factor in their buying decision. They're just going to choose the cheaper Nokia that has all the apps.
    .
    Your understanding of the developing markets is slim to none. You really think that the people that can only afford or only want to spend 100-200 USD "dont have that knowledge (of high end specs)"? A pretty elistest comment at minimum and one thats based on ignorance, not understanding.
    03-14-14 11:58 PM
  3. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Attachment 255109

    According to some of my research, from noteworthy sources, Windows Phone sales are on a decline, that is excluding the Lumia 520/521. Sales declining about 800,000 units per quarter. If this trend continues, BlackBerry could be back in the Top 3 platforms quite soon, especially if the BlackBerry Z3 sells at least as good as the Lumia 520/521 and the Nokia X/X+/XL takes some sales away from the Lumia 520/521.
    Funny, Windows Phone surpassed BlackBerry in the US - http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/07/win...-market-share/

    In the US, BlackBerry's (BBRY) OS declined from 3.6% to 3.1%, Microsoft's (MSFT) Windows Phone remained flat at 3.2% - http://marketrealist.com/2014/03/goo...tphone-market/

    Plus, it's the fastest growing OS in Europe - http://www.windowscentral.com/window...bile-os-europe

    Where's this "fast decline" of Windows Phone?
    03-15-14 12:10 AM
  4. mnc76's Avatar
    This is not good news for WP. They are declining in many first world markets.

    The Lumia 9xx/10xx lines are the higher margin "prestige" devices they really would like to sell (not the low margin 'value' lines like the 5xx line and X lines). The X line, for instance, is targeted as a phone that is "somewhat better than a feature phone". It's a very low spec, simple device. The active tiles on the Nokia X homescreen *dont even update*... they always remain static and fixed with the same graphic...

    BlackBerry may be going down the same road. (re: Z3)

    But come on people... the decline in WP's first-world flagship sales in the US is definitely not good.

    Also, the upside for BlackBerry is that, clearly, there is a market for phones that have limited application ecosystems.

    BlackBerry and WP are in very similar boats when it comes to apps.

    And then BlackBerry has the Android card as well. My GF has a WP with native Instagram but it doesn't even have Instagram Direct. I only found out about this after I sent her Instagram direct videos from my Z10 and she said she never got them. There is no ETA for 'direct' on WP-Instagram.

    WP native Instagram is NO WHERE NEAR as good as BlackBerry 'ported' Instagram. Same goes for many other 'native' WP apps (like tumblr for instance).

    WP may have more native apps from big devs, but it is clear that WP is LAST on their priority list and devs (more often than not) develop mediocre versions with missing features for WP. It seems like they develop versions with "just enough" functionality for them to say "we support WP". But the experience is often (read: usually) very lacking in features.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by mnc76; 03-15-14 at 01:03 AM.
    D_Gui and damien kupuku like this.
    03-15-14 12:32 AM
  5. dolco's Avatar
    This is not good news for WP. They are declining in many first world markets.

    The Lumia 9xx/10xx lines are the higher margin "prestige" devices they really would like to sell (not the low margin 'value' lines like the 5xx line and X lines). The X line, for instance, is targeted as a phone that is "somewhat better than a feature phone". It's a very low spec, simple device. The active tiles on the Nokia X homescreen *dont even update*... they always remain static and fixed with the same graphic...

    BlackBerry may be going down the same road. (re: Z3)

    But come on people... the decline in WP's first-world flagship sales in the US is definitely not good.

    Also, the upside for BlackBerry is that, clearly, there is a market for phones that have limited application ecosystems.

    BlackBerry and WP are in very similar boats when it comes to apps.

    And then BlackBerry has the Android card as well. My GF has a WP with native Instagram but it doesn't even have Instagram Direct. I only found out about this after I sent her Instagram direct videos from my Z10 and she said she never got them. There is no ETA for 'direct' on WP-Instagram.

    WP native Instagram is NO WHERE NEAR as good as BlackBerry 'ported' Instagram. Same goes for many other 'native' WP apps (like tumblr for instance).

    WP may have more native apps from big devs, but it is clear that WP is LAST on their priority list and devs (more often than not) develop mediocre versions with missing features for WP. It seems like they develop versions with "just enough" functionality for them to say "we support WP". But the experience is often (read: usually) very lacking in features.

    Posted via CB10
    I am WP person. Any way, I am interested to other OSs including BB10, too. I am going to CB to get info from best source. Unfortunately, there is something on what I am not very proud. I like read delusional comments like this one. Especially when they compare to WP and know not too much about it...
    I am sorry.
    jefbeard911 and neo158 like this.
    03-15-14 02:03 AM
  6. mnc76's Avatar
    I am WP person. Any way, I am interested to other OSs including BB10, too. I am going to CB to get info from best source. Unfortunately, there is something on what I am not very proud. I like read delusional comments like this one. Especially when they compare to WP and know not too much about it...
    I am sorry.
    I actually like WP. I am extremely familiar with the platform. Nothing I said is incorrect.

    Why do you have a problem with what I said? Explain to me *EXACTLY* (and in detail) the SPECIFIC points where I am incorrect.

    Posted via CB10
    03-15-14 02:35 AM
  7. dolco's Avatar
    I actually like WP. I am extremely familiar with the platform. Nothing I said is incorrect.

    Why do you have a problem with what I said? Explain to me *EXACTLY* (and in detail) the SPECIFIC points where I am incorrect.

    Posted via CB10
    Just one question: If you are so familiar to WP why didn't you tell to your GF to install 6tag instead of instagram?
    03-15-14 02:44 AM
  8. mnc76's Avatar
    Just one question: If you are so familiar to WP why didn't you tell to your GF to install 6tag instead of instagram?
    Because my point had to do with the incorrect notion that WP has better "native" support from developers, when the fact is that the "native" support from the original developers is largely the same as it is on BB10 (e.g: 3rd party versions are often better than what the original devs make available). The native support lags far behind the indepenedent third party "grass roots" support for the platform. The original developers put up versions that are just barely adequate.

    Tell me what else I am incorrect about. Does the Nokia X line actually have cutting edge specs? How much SSD storage do they have? How much RAM do they have? Does native WP Instagram have every feature that the iOS and Android versions have? What features is native WP Instagram missing? Does it support Instagram Direct?

    Is it GOOD that the Lumia 9xx and 10xx lines are dropping in sales? Do the Nokia X phones have dynamically updated tiles? How many apps are on the Nokia X phone app store?

    I may sound like a WP hater, but I'm truly not. But let's all live in the real world here folks. I'm just stating facts.

    And FYI: I'm not gonna say BB10 is doing amazing in the market either. I wish it was, but the reality is, there is a long way to go before BB10 makes a comeback in the consumer space. That is the reality.

    Aside: My GF has a Lumia 920. It is really the best phone for her. She hates cases and is ridiculously clumsy with her electronics. But her Lumia is literally indestructable. She;s dropped it on concrete, tile, and down cement stairs and it still works perfectly without a single crack. It's pretty amazing. So please don't suggest I don't appreciate the WP platform and hardware.
    Last edited by mnc76; 03-15-14 at 03:10 AM.
    03-15-14 02:51 AM
  9. dolco's Avatar
    Because my point had to do with the incorrect notion that WP has better "native" support from developers, when the fact is that the "native" support from the original developers is largely the same as it is on BB10 (e.g: 3rd party versions are often better than what the original devs make available). The native support lags far behind the indepenedent third party "grass roots" support for the platform. The original developers put up versions that are just barely adequate.

    Tell me what else I am incorrect about. Does the Nokia X line actually have cutting edge specs? How much SSD storage do they have? How much RAM do they have? Does native WP Instagram have every feature that the iOS and Android versions have? What features is native WP Instagram missing? Does it support Instagram Direct?

    Is it GOOD that the Lumia 9xx and 10xx lines are dropping in sales? Do the Nokia X phones have dynamically updated tiles? How many apps are on the Nokia X phone app store?

    I may sound like a WP hater, but I'm truly not. But let's all live in the real world here folks. I'm just stating facts.

    And FYI: I'm not gonna say BB10 is doing amazing in the market either. I wish it was, but the reality is, there is a long way to go before BB10 makes a comeback in the consumer space. That is the reality.
    Just long excuses, you are looking problems (in fact no problems or minor problems) on other platform to excuse problems of yours. THIS is what I am writing about.
    There are only native apps on WP. Please use word "native" in correct way. There is also "genuine" word.
    I agree that sales are going down but there are two reason of it:
    -one is specific: Nokia is finishing mobile handset business and has no reason increase production, if it loses on each handset.
    -second is very common: It is life cycle of product. People are waiting for new models. Look on graph of iPhone sales.
    http://static2.businessinsider.com/i...ne%20sales.png
    Last edited by dolco; 03-15-14 at 05:00 AM.
    neo158 likes this.
    03-15-14 03:41 AM
  10. D_Gui's Avatar
    You are conflating two data sources with different metrics. In reality NL 520 sales are likely around 70%+ of Windows Phone sales, but of course if you remove the most popular handset sales will be "actually declining".

    I heard iPhone sales were also declining if we exclude the iPhone 5S.
    The Lumia 520 and iPhone 5s are in two completely different segments. You can't compare a flagship to an entry level offering. AND more importantly, the Lumia 520 is the most popular because it's cheap, without it WP would be nowhere, like it used to be, it shows that WP flagships aren't popular and they have no real impact, and they're unlikely to do so for the forseeable future.

    You also have to factor in product cycles. Towards the end of the cycle, sales naturally slow down, as people begin to wait for the newer models to be released.
    Well, the Lumia 928, 1020 and 1520 should have made some impact then, considering they went one sale in each of the three quarters that declines started.

    To bad MS doesn't decide to give up, I think most Windows Phone users would be using Blackberry if there were no Windows Phone. But there in it for the long haul, Microsoft can afford to lose money on WP for a long time.
    Microsoft's major shareholders are already uneasy about Windows Phone, if it continues being a loss, they're likely to vote it go the way of Vista, SPOT, Zune etc.

    Am i reading this right that WP is selling 9m a quarter? And bb10 has sold around 3 maybe 4 m in just over a year? Long way to get anywhere near 3rd place.
    Not really, WP also took a while to pick up and the Lumia 520 (read: affordable devices) speed that up, with the Z3 launching in key markets at a good price, it may speed things up earlier in the game than it did for WP.

    That's actually not a good news for Blackberry. This just proves that there is no room for the third player. That's what analysts have been saying all along which I don't want to agree with and am not willing to accept. I would like both Blackberry and Windows to gain market share, or at least sell more number of devices every quarter. What's up with Blackberry fans always trying to put Windows down (or vice versa). You are not going to gain much by doing that anyways. How much market share do these companies have now anyways? In fact, may be it's time to join hands. Windows and Blackberry should partner with each other to bring the best from both the OSs to have a compelling alternative to Android and iOS.
    I am not putting Windows (Phone) down, all I am saying is that it's lower end devices that are affecting sales, unless MS squirts out more low end devices, the decline will start becoming evident even with the L520. It's also as a reference that BlackBerry should keep their flagships as a niche and focus on lower end devices if they want to make an impact, or at least get Wall Street off their backs. WP & BB are unlikely to partner up, I heard whispers from Redmond that MS wanted to make a bid on BB as soon as their valuation dipped below $2.5B, whether it's true or not is a mystery, BUT BlackBerry won't partner with MS and MS is too stubborn to admit they need some help, although their lowering of licensing fees and signing up new OEMs may make a difference...
    03-15-14 03:59 AM
  11. D_Gui's Avatar
    Your understanding of the developing markets is slim to none. You really think that the people that can only afford or only want to spend 100-200 USD "dont have that knowledge (of high end specs)"? A pretty elistest comment at minimum and one thats based on ignorance, not understanding.
    I live in an emerging market, here the people that spend that much look at three things; brand (usually BlackBerry/Samsung), screen size (usually about 3-3.5" if touch) and what their peers have. Since most people use BlackBerrys and cheap Samsungs, that is what they buy. Nokia rules the feature phone market and the X is likely to give them an edge again, no one here is interested in Windows Phone, many have told me it looks cheap whereas Android/BBOS gives them a 'premium' feel.

    Funny, Windows Phone surpassed BlackBerry in the US - Windows Phone Surpasses BlackBerry In The US Despite Flat Market Share | TechCrunch

    In the US, BlackBerry's (BBRY) OS declined from 3.6% to 3.1%, Microsoft's (MSFT) Windows Phone remained flat at 3.2% - Why did Google's Android lose share in the US smartphone market? » Market Realist

    Plus, it's the fastest growing OS in Europe - Report: Windows Phone remains the fastest growing mobile OS in Europe | Windows Phone Central

    Where's this "fast decline" of Windows Phone?
    You clearly did not look at the graph, it may be growing in those markets because 1. the L520 sales are improving, 2. Non-Android/iOS devices are declining meaning their is an opening for another player, 3. of course it will be the fastest growing OS, it went from nothing to something in about two years, tremendous growth would of course be present, 4. BlackBerry sales are tanking, fast, so of course their market share will decline and WP will replace them as they grow...

    Just long excuses, you are looking problems (in fact no problems or minor problems) on other platform to excuse problems of yours. THIS is what I am writing about.
    There are only native apps on WP. Please use word "native" in correct way. There is also "genuine" word.
    I agree that sales are going down but there are two reason of it:
    -one is specific: Nokia is finishing business and has no reason increase production, if it loses on each handset.
    -second is very common: It is life cycle of product. People are waiting for new models. Look on graph of iPhone sales.
    http://static2.businessinsider.com/i...ne%20sales.png
    There are many problems with WP, and this isn't from me, it's from actual users, they're complaining about slow updates, poor app integration, lack of features, lack of device choices on the market. There are many more.

    Nokia finishing business? What a joke, their device and services division is going to Microsoft, that doesn't mean they're decreasing production, it would actually mean they're increasing production as Microsoft has more cash to burn and wants more devices in the hands of users. Microsoft is taking all the profits/losses of the division for the financial year, so Nokia doesn't lose on each device, MS does.

    Your lifecycle excuse is also invalid as they released a high end device in each of the quarter the declines were evident, those include the L928, L1020 and L1520, they all also went on sale around that time. So, waiting for new devices isn't really accurate. Comparing it to iPhone sales is daft and quite ignorant considering there is only one new model each year, with 2013 being an exception, whereas WP gets several different devices each year, most of which flagships...
    03-15-14 04:28 AM
  12. Gesig Boek's Avatar
    The Lumia 520 and iPhone 5s are in two completely different segments. You can't compare a flagship to an entry level offering. AND more importantly, the Lumia 520 is the most popular because it's cheap, without it WP would be nowhere, like it used to be, it shows that WP flagships aren't popular and they have no real impact, and they're unlikely to do so for the forseeable future....
    You do know the majority of the 80+ million Android phones Samsung sells each quarter are also low end devices, right? In fact in 2013 they warned of dropping ASP due to the growth of the mid-range and low-end.

    And I hope you know that the majority of the 220 million quarterly Android sales are also of low-end devices, dont you, with 1/3 of them not even running Google Play Store. That segment is also growing faster.

    In fact the ASP of Windows Phones are somewhat ahead of Android handsets. ($301 vs $276)

    Now tell me just because the majority of Android handsets are cheap the OS and its high end handsets has no impact.

    In the UK the NL 520 outsold all Android handsets in December, and thats important because all those people will still demand services like BBC iPlayer and Barclays Banking apps and so forth. Raw market share is important, even if the demographic is not high end.
    Last edited by Gesig Boek; 03-15-14 at 05:03 AM.
    dolco, cgk, richardat and 1 others like this.
    03-15-14 04:47 AM
  13. Tony_Tone's Avatar
    Windows Phone sales actually declining, fast: BlackBerry back in top 3 soon?.
    4. BlackBerry sales are tanking, fast, so of course their market share will decline and WP will replace them as they grow...
    So which one is it?
    neo158 likes this.
    03-15-14 04:53 AM
  14. dolco's Avatar
    I live in an emerging market, here the people that spend that much look at three things; brand (usually BlackBerry/Samsung), screen size (usually about 3-3.5" if touch) and what their peers have. Since most people use BlackBerrys and cheap Samsungs, that is what they buy. Nokia rules the feature phone market and the X is likely to give them an edge again, no one here is interested in Windows Phone, many have told me it looks cheap whereas Android/BBOS gives them a 'premium' feel.



    You clearly did not look at the graph, it may be growing in those markets because 1. the L520 sales are improving, 2. Non-Android/iOS devices are declining meaning their is an opening for another player, 3. of course it will be the fastest growing OS, it went from nothing to something in about two years, tremendous growth would of course be present, 4. BlackBerry sales are tanking, fast, so of course their market share will decline and WP will replace them as they grow...



    There are many problems with WP, and this isn't from me, it's from actual users, they're complaining about slow updates, poor app integration, lack of features, lack of device choices on the market. There are many more.

    Nokia finishing business? What a joke, their device and services division is going to Microsoft, that doesn't mean they're decreasing production, it would actually mean they're increasing production as Microsoft has more cash to burn and wants more devices in the hands of users. Microsoft is taking all the profits/losses of the division for the financial year, so Nokia doesn't lose on each device, MS does.

    Your lifecycle excuse is also invalid as they released a high end device in each of the quarter the declines were evident, those include the L928, L1020 and L1520, they all also went on sale around that time. So, waiting for new devices isn't really accurate. Comparing it to iPhone sales is daft and quite ignorant considering there is only one new model each year, with 2013 being an exception, whereas WP gets several different devices each year, most of which flagships...
    Another long comment, so typical for delusional people who are trying to convert people to his "true". I really have no time and taste to explain why you are (once more) wrong (IMHO of course). I will not have better feeling. There is one judge which will be right: time. Just wait and we will see.
    richardat and neo158 like this.
    03-15-14 04:54 AM
  15. badiyee's Avatar
    A lot of the do called high end lumias actually cost more than an iPhone or the latest Samsung flagship. I still see some sold for the price at rm2500. Pretty steep for a phone if you ask me.

    Posted via CB on BB10
    03-15-14 05:58 AM
  16. cgk's Avatar
    It's early and I haven't had any coffee but the summary of this is "If I exclude the top-selling device, then I can show my side is winning" - yes?

    Is the next thread "If we exclude devices without physical keyboards, BBRY has Apple licked"?

    More generally where is this idea of Windows decline coming from? In most markets it is showing double-digit growth (not doing so well in the USA) and that is before we see the impact of MS waiving the license fee in certain emerging markets and they have just added a number of new OEM partners.
    03-15-14 06:10 AM
  17. cgk's Avatar
    You do know the majority of the 80+ million Android phones Samsung sells each quarter are also low end devices, right? In fact in 2013 they warned of dropping ASP due to the growth of the mid-range and low-end.

    And I hope you know that the majority of the 220 million quarterly Android sales are also of low-end devices, dont you, with 1/3 of them not even running Google Play Store. That segment is also growing faster.

    In fact the ASP of Windows Phones are somewhat ahead of Android handsets. ($301 vs $276)

    Now tell me just because the majority of Android handsets are cheap the OS and its high end handsets has no impact.

    In the UK the NL 520 outsold all Android handsets in December, and thats important because all those people will still demand services like BBC iPlayer and Barclays Banking apps and so forth. Raw market share is important, even if the demographic is not high end.
    Plus we are seeing comments like this from the carriers:

    “The Windows Phone market is good for us. We’ve chosen that as our third ecosystem now that BlackBerry is dying off slowly,” Brendan Arndt, Three’s Portfolio Manager said speaking to TrustedReviews.

    Discussing Windows Phone 8 platform, Arndt stated: “The customer experience is great, the customer feedback is great on Windows Phone and is higher than some of the Android stuff.”

    “It has done really well at the mid and low end for us, the top end is still needing that killer product to make it a big success and I hope that is coming and coming soon,” said Arndt.
    Three UK says “BlackBerry is dying off slowly” - N4BB
    dolco and neo158 like this.
    03-15-14 06:15 AM
  18. imz's Avatar
    BlackBerry has a new ceo and everyone is waiting for him to pull a rabbit out of the hat to save BB.

    Microsoft has a newer CEO, with even shorter time at the post, of which everyone is awaiting the rabbit trick.

    Nokia, "may" also get a new ceo to help swing things:
    http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/repo...as-ceo-1969359

    Who will out perform, is the question.

    Posted via CB10
    03-15-14 06:18 AM
  19. cgk's Avatar
    BlackBerry has a new ceo and everyone is waiting for him to pull a rabbit out of the hat to save BB.

    Microsoft has a newer CEO, with even shorter time at the post, of which everyone is awaiting the rabbit trick.

    Nokia, "may" also get a new ceo to help swing things:
    After Microsoft's Satya Nadella, Nokia may give charge to Indian-origin Rajeev Suri as CEO | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

    Who will out perform, is the question.

    Posted via CB10
    I'll put my money on the company with surging enterprise sales and billions in the bank who can afford to bankroll their OS for many years to come against the player operating in a billionaire's market with only millions to play with. Now that doesn't mean MS will "win" but it can still wipe out BBRY while losing.
    dolco and JeepBB like this.
    03-15-14 06:23 AM
  20. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    I live in an emerging market, here the people that spend that much look at three things; brand (usually BlackBerry/Samsung), screen size (usually about 3-3.5" if touch) and what their peers have. Since most people use BlackBerrys and cheap Samsungs, that is what they buy. Nokia rules the feature phone market and the X is likely to give them an edge again, no one here is interested in Windows Phone, many have told me it looks cheap whereas Android/BBOS gives them a 'premium' feel.



    You clearly did not look at the graph, it may be growing in those markets because 1. the L520 sales are improving, 2. Non-Android/iOS devices are declining meaning their is an opening for another player, 3. of course it will be the fastest growing OS, it went from nothing to something in about two years, tremendous growth would of course be present, 4. BlackBerry sales are tanking, fast, so of course their market share will decline and WP will replace them as they grow...



    There are many problems with WP, and this isn't from me, it's from actual users, they're complaining about slow updates, poor app integration, lack of features, lack of device choices on the market. There are many more.

    Nokia finishing business? What a joke, their device and services division is going to Microsoft, that doesn't mean they're decreasing production, it would actually mean they're increasing production as Microsoft has more cash to burn and wants more devices in the hands of users. Microsoft is taking all the profits/losses of the division for the financial year, so Nokia doesn't lose on each device, MS does.

    Your lifecycle excuse is also invalid as they released a high end device in each of the quarter the declines were evident, those include the L928, L1020 and L1520, they all also went on sale around that time. So, waiting for new devices isn't really accurate. Comparing it to iPhone sales is daft and quite ignorant considering there is only one new model each year, with 2013 being an exception, whereas WP gets several different devices each year, most of which flagships...
    I did look at the graph, you stated "Windows Phone is declining". I showed you 2 links that prove that not true - if a market share is flat, is it also declining? No, it's flat.

    Stop making blanket statements based on one graph.
    richardat, JeepBB and neo158 like this.
    03-15-14 06:50 AM
  21. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    It's early and I haven't had any coffee but the summary of this is "If I exclude the top-selling device, then I can show my side is winning" - yes?

    Is the next thread "If we exclude devices without physical keyboards, BBRY has Apple licked"?

    More generally where is this idea of Windows decline coming from? In most markets it is showing double-digit growth (not doing so well in the USA) and that is before we see the impact of MS waiving the license fee in certain emerging markets and they have just added a number of new OEM partners.
    Well said.
    The OP has made blanket statements to 'prove' MS are losing.
    neo158 likes this.
    03-15-14 06:55 AM
  22. D_Gui's Avatar
    You do know the majority of the 80+ million Android phones Samsung sells each quarter are also low end devices, right?
    I am fully aware of that, but do remember that Samsung has several different models aimed at the lower end. If Microsoft wants WP to grow they need more lower end devices, since sales of their higher end devices are declining. Which is likely why they have signed up so many new partners. Currently they have one, if for some reason sales of that one device stalls, whether there's a problem at the factory, the ship delivering the devices sinks or whatever happens, they're screwed.

    So which one is it?
    BBOS is tanking, BB10 is growing, slowly however. If Windows Phone sales continue a decline, then BB10 has the opportunity to catch up in a few quarters, most likely thanks to the Z3, their own "L520"...

    Another long comment, so typical for delusional people who are trying to convert people to his "true". I really have no time and taste to explain why you are (once more) wrong (IMHO of course). I will not have better feeling. There is one judge which will be right: time. Just wait and we will see.
    I am not trying to convert anyone, I am merely showing that if it weren't for lower end WP devices, then WP would be in a decline and BB10 would stand a chance in the highly competitive pursuit of the third ecosystem crown. MS needs to focus on the lower end if they want to stay there, BB10 has to focus on the lower end if they want to gain any form of market share...

    It's early and I haven't had any coffee but the summary of this is "If I exclude the top-selling device, then I can show my side is winning" - yes?

    Is the next thread "If we exclude devices without physical keyboards, BBRY has Apple licked"?

    More generally where is this idea of Windows decline coming from? In most markets it is showing double-digit growth (not doing so well in the USA) and that is before we see the impact of MS waiving the license fee in certain emerging markets and they have just added a number of new OEM partners.
    My side? I don't have a side, unless you count "innovation in the mobile market" as a side. I am merely stating that the lower end is what is driving Windows Phone, without it, BlackBerry could stand a chance, highlighting the area where BlackBerry should be focussing their efforts. Of course WP will show sudden growth, carriers are pushing them harder, in most markets they had barely any market share, any increase would give them double digit growth...

    I'll put my money on the company with surging enterprise sales and billions in the bank who can afford to bankroll their OS for many years to come against the player operating in a billionaire's market with only millions to play with. Now that doesn't mean MS will "win" but it can still wipe out BBRY while losing.
    Only millions to play with? Last time I checked BlackBerry also has a few billion. Another thing, do you think MS' vocal shareholders are going to continue supporting another money burning endeavour? You saw what happened to SPOT, Vista, the Zune? Unless their new partners can push cheap phones to the masses and ensure that the decline of the flagship devices doesn't spread, then they're screwed in many ways...
    03-15-14 06:55 AM
  23. D_Gui's Avatar
    Well said.
    The OP has made blanket statements to 'prove' MS are losing.
    Don't want to prove anything in fact. I merely showed that WP sales showing even a minor increase is because of the Lumia 520/521, unless they focus on more lower end devices instead of flagships, they're going to be in trouble. I also stated that BlackBerry could regain the 3rd spot, that is if they continue on the path they're currently on; the lower end of the market.
    03-15-14 06:58 AM
  24. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Well. I don't think BB10 will EVER catch up to WP.
    Take a look what MS has been doing

    Free licensing for WP for local players: (e.g India's local OEMs. India is the second biggest market after china)
    Dual sim support
    Recycle Android hardware for WP (including software keys)
    Enterprise feature pack. (Takes WP to BB's level of Enterprise)
    Lowered the specs requirements of WP
    Reference phones from QUALCOMM which carriers and OMS can use to make their own phones with

    How can Blackberry beat this??

    They have nothing for this sort of thing
    Never is a very very long time and anything is possible until I sing.

    However, given BlackBerry's penchant for snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory, I don't know if it can take/hold onto number three position. But to discount them outright would be a bit blind. There is always the possibility that they will come up with two killer devices.
    wincyUt likes this.
    03-15-14 07:00 AM
  25. cgk's Avatar
    [QUOTE=D_Gui;10120565



    Only millions to play with? Last time I checked BlackBerry also has a few billion.[/QUOTE]

    Yep - in terms of operational activity, BBRY is very limited in mobile, it has to split that very small pot across all of its activities plus R&D plus M&A Plus Plus - it's structurally too small to compete effectively in consumer mobile - which is why we are seeing the carrier support dying off, the lack of adverts.
    richardat and JeepBB like this.
    03-15-14 07:07 AM
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