[Bbnivende]

The question I have is why can't Blackberry compete on price? Why can't they make and sell a low margin "slab phone" to compete with the Lumia 520 ? The goal right now is not profits per unit, it is to establish BB10 as a viable OS and to protect their market share . They need to expand their base to make it worthwhile for App developers.

I think they need to partner up with local manufacturers in the emerging markets so as to keep BB a premium equipment brand while at the same time increasing BB10 market share.

[garnok]

The question I have is why can't Blackberry compete on price? Why can't they make and sell a low margin "slab phone" to compete with the Lumia 520 ? The goal right now is not profits per unit, it is to establish BB10 as a viable OS and to protect their market share . They need to expand their base to make it worthwhile for App developers.

I think they need to partner up with local manufacturers in the emerging markets so as to keep BB a premium equipment brand while at the same time increasing BB10 market share.

i don't think Blackberry can offer $150 phone like lumia right now if BB10 system requirement need 2GB Ram and only offering 2 screen resolution (1280x720 and 720x720) it will lower their margin.

plus Blackberry have to spend money for R&D , making and developing their own OS, supporting their service (BBM, Blackberry maps, etc) , bribing some developers to make apps for Bb10 , promote their phone. while the other vendors can cut their expense because google, and microsoft doing it for them providing them ecosystem, apps, maps, services etc, and sometimes google and microsoft help promote other vendors phone.

PS : i'm sure nokia don't have to pay microsoft to use WP8 correct me if i'm wrong

[JeepBB]

PS : i'm sure nokia don't have to pay microsoft to use WP8 correct me if i'm wrong

That's almost true.

If what I've read is true Microsoft actually pay Nokia more in support fees than Nokia pay MS in licensing fees. So Nokia are getting a free ride at the moment. Though I believe those support payments will reduce as WinPhone sales improve... And Nokia will (ultimately) pay licensing fees to MS.

I'm sure anyone who thinks we're both wrong will correct us.

[Hilman76]

Going from 1 million to 2.7 million blackberry 10 is not declining either

Posted via CB10

Wasn't that one month of sales versus three months? That would be one million per month versus 0.9 million per month (even less devices actually sold), looks like a decline to me.

[RubberChicken76]

Wasn't that one month of sales versus three months? That would be one million per month versus 0.9 million per month (even less devices actually sold), looks like a decline to me.

The point is the same. The shipments in BlackBerry's Q1 were higher than the shipments in BlackBerrys Q4.

I still find it bizarre that people even want to brag about Windows Phone's "momentum". It has its own substantial issues, regardless of where it sits relative to BlackBerry 10.

Windows Phone is still not turning a profit for Microsoft. Nokia, their biggest player, is still not turning a profit and still has grouchy shareholders. Despite billions, they still haven't done much to make a dent in mobile. And most of their partners except Nokia don't seem to care at all.

[RubberChicken76]

You can pay the media to say anything you like as long as you pay. Microsoft has a lot of money to spend on propaganda.

Posted via CB10

Propaganda has nothing to do with it. Lazy reporting does.

[mrfreetruth]

Propaganda has nothing to do with it. Lazy reporting does.

Journalists are not lazy in their reporting. They are told how to report. Journalists are best described as puppets . Money does the real talking. Many media outlets are on the brink of bankruptcy and thus more willing to sell themselves for money.

Posted via CB10

[berklon]

The point is the same. The shipments in BlackBerry's Q1 were higher than the shipments in BlackBerrys Q4.

I still find it bizarre that people even want to brag about Windows Phone's "momentum". It has its own substantial issues, regardless of where it sits relative to BlackBerry 10.

Windows Phone is still not turning a profit for Microsoft. Nokia, their biggest player, is still not turning a profit and still has grouchy shareholders. Despite billions, they still haven't done much to make a dent in mobile. And most of their partners except Nokia don't seem to care at all.

Microsoft is playing the long game. It's all about meshing the different MS environments... between WP, Windows, XBOX, etc... all tied to their backend.

MS faced the same issues when trying to get into the relational DB, e-mail and networking market. Now look at them there.. SQL, Exchange/Outlook and Windows Server are leading the market on the backend. MS even lost money on the original XBOX and now has taken a nice chunk of marketshare from Sony when they released the 360.

MS has VERY deep pockets and are committed to making this work. They'll manage to care out a nice chunk of the mobile space for themselves.

[12Danny123]

Microsoft is playing the long game. It's all about meshing the different MS environments... between WP, Windows, XBOX, etc... all tied to their backend.

MS faced the same issues when trying to get into the relational DB, e-mail and networking market. Now look at them there.. SQL, Exchange/Outlook and Windows Server are leading the market on the backend. MS even lost money on the original XBOX and now has taken a nice chunk of marketshare from Sony when they released the 360.

MS has VERY deep pockets and are committed to making this work. They'll manage to care out a nice chunk of the mobile space for themselves.

Agreed. Do not mess with MS in the long run. Even apple agrees. The long game always wins.

E.g IOS has been loosing market share to Windows and Android. True fact

Sent using my Z10

[h20work]

The point is the same. The shipments in BlackBerry's Q1 were higher than the shipments in BlackBerrys Q4.

I still find it bizarre that people even want to brag about Windows Phone's "momentum". It has its own substantial issues, regardless of where it sits relative to BlackBerry 10.

Windows Phone is still not turning a profit for Microsoft. Nokia, their biggest player, is still not turning a profit and still has grouchy shareholders. Despite billions, they still haven't done much to make a dent in mobile. And most of their partners except Nokia don't seem to care at all.

Well to use your logic, they shipped more bb10's this year than last year. Lots more!

[BBPandy]

Well to use your logic, they shipped more bb10's this year than last year. Lots more!

Haha true, anything is more then 0

Posted via CB10

[RubberChicken76]

That's almost true.
If what I've read is true Microsoft actually pay Nokia more in support fees than Nokia pay MS in licensing fees. So Nokia are getting a free ride at the moment. Though I believe those support payments will reduce as WinPhone sales improve... And Nokia will (ultimately) pay licensing fees to MS.

This is the way I've heard it as well, though heaven knows I haven't seen the licensing agreement. I can't help but think that it's entirely possible that one of BlackBerry's future options is to take a Nokia like deal for Windows Phone also. Still think being purchased or further downsizing to a specific niche or specific niches is likely but it has to be an option on the table at least.

Though if it happened, it would basically mean the end of BlackBerry 10 and would probably come with other strings like making the BES support Windows Phone, bringing BBM to Windows Phone etc.

[RubberChicken76]

Well to use your logic, they shipped more bb10's this year than last year. Lots more!

You guys are making more of this then was intended. Seems to be a common theme here.

In no way, did I say "BlackBerry 10 is selling like gangbusters!!!!"

[RubberChicken76]

MS has VERY deep pockets and are committed to making this work. They'll manage to care out a nice chunk of the mobile space for themselves.

They have to. Tablets and smartphones running an OS other than Windows is the first serious threat Microsoft has had to their lucrative Windows license business in many, many, many years.

[h20work]

Journalists are not lazy in their reporting. They are told how to report. Journalists are best described as puppets . Money does the real talking. Many media outlets are on the brink of bankruptcy and thus more willing to sell themselves for money.

Posted via CB10

So if they posted an article that was positive towards BlackBerry we shouldn't believe it since bbry paid them off? Makes sense

[RubberChicken76]

Journalists are not lazy in their reporting. They are told how to report. Journalists are best described as puppets . Money does the real talking. Many media outlets are on the brink of bankruptcy and thus more willing to sell themselves for money.

There is a monetary issue, but it's got nothing to do with being "paid off'". They have fewer staff than before. Check. They have to compete with fast posting bloggers. Check.

Professional journalists often don't have the time or staffing to handle detailed research the way they used to. Lots of stories have a habit of being rushed or re-posts of someone else's article in order to compete with the fast pace when you have limited staff.

I seriously doubt any serious news agency is on any smartphone company's payroll. Apple, Google and Microsoft do not pay journalists to write bad things about BlackBerry. Stories about BlackBerry (particularly bad ones) get attention and generate traffic. Don't believe me? Look at the trending threads in this forum on any given day ....

[kraschute]

well this is what happens when you don't offer low, low end devices.

Oh yes, unfortunately too many BB fanboys told us (Playbook owners) the last weeks that it is completely understandable why a modern OS requires 2GB of RAM. One sees where this ignorance leads in todays announcement...

[briankiser]

Hey guys, sorry to bust in, but as a Windows Phone fan and developer, I have to say you have a really interesting discussion here. My first app is being featured tomorrow (Tuesday, 9/10) in Thailand on non-Nokia phones only. While I'm excited, I don't know how Nokia's penetration is in Thailand versus non-Nokia Windows Phones. I was doing a little research when I ran across your forum.

It's nice to see people rationally discuss this topic from the Blackberry side. To be honest, most of us WP developers have been pretty nervous ourselves about whether our platform is going to succeed. I'll say I have been cautiously optimistic. I personally feel that when Microsoft decides to go all-out in a direction, they make it succeed eventually, and I think the phone market is a serious "must-have" for Microsoft. (This is just my conjecture, of course.)

Looking at your posts, I can see you care about your platform as much as I care about mine. I appreciate that. Good luck to you guys. I'd like to think there's enough room at the top for 4 platforms, not just 3. Sure hate to see iOS and Android hogging all the glory.

[playbookster]

No BBM for Windows phone will end up hurting it, especially in Indonesia etc

Posted via CB10

[Roo Zilla]

As to whose fault is it that BB can't compete in sub-$100 smartphone market? You're asking a rhetorical question. I'll bite. BB has never competed in sub-$100 market. It's too small of a player to have the economies of scale of Samsung, LG, ZTE, Huawei & Nokia.

That's just incorrect. The biggest cost in a smartphone are the components. Component costs are pretty much the same for every smartphone maker. Companies like Qualcomm have minimum purchases requirements, but the minimum isn't very big for a company like BBRY. The minimum for best pricing is like 300,000 units. Look at a company like Xiaomi, they sell FEWER phones than BBRY and yet look at their pricing.

Xiaomi 3 = $327 (Tegra 4 or Snapdragon 800, 5" 1080p, 13MP)
Xiaomi 2S = $295 (Snapdragon 600, 4.3" 720-, 13MP)
Xiaomi Hongmi = $132 (quad-core 1.5Ghz A7, 4.7" 720p, 8MP)

Economies of scale might matter if you're making 10,000 phones, but once you hit the minimum contract price for components, there are no further discounts. In case anybody might be concerned that they have really bad quality because of their cheap prices, I have personally seen Xiaomi phones and they are as good as any Samsung phone. Like Apple, they contract Foxconn for assembly.

Here's the kicker, they are going to make a PROFIT this year on sales of about 15 million units.